Is r-ALA better than regular ALA?

[SofaGeorge]

Is r-ALA better than regular ALA? DONT VOTE UNLESS YOU POST

There are enough people here who have used both r-ALA and regular ALA.

In real world use, is one better than the other?

------------------------------------------------------------------
DONT VOTE UNLESS YOU HAVE USED BOTH, DONT VOTE UNLESS YOU INTEND TO POST

THIS HAS OBVIOUSLY BEEN A PROBLEM THUS FAR..

BTW- SORRY FOR THE INTRUSION SOFAGEORGE.

MP

 

[macrophage69alpha]

that my one vote-
r-ala is much better. at least for insulin sensitivity. It only takes a couple days to notice this.

people who will notice most benefits.. older (insulin resistance), higher bodyfat(insulin resistance), lower estrogen (including those taking aromatase inhibitors) which decreases insulin sensitivity... among others


as far as KETO.. it is not even clear whether this is true KETO or metabolites of ALA giving a false positive..


as far as "anabolic effects" cant say one way or other...

though pumps are a little better with r-ala, vascularity same as with racemic, no bloating (which was obvious with racemic)... as far a heartburn (never had any.. so cant say)

 

[serge]

that my one vote-
r-ala is much better. at least for insulin sensitivity. It only takes a couple days to notice this.

people who will notice most benefits.. older (insulin resistance), higher bodyfat(insulin resistance), lower estrogen (including those taking aromatase inhibitors) which decreases insulin sensitivity... among others


as far as KETO.. it is not even clear whether this is true KETO or metabolites of ALA giving a false positive..


as far as "anabolic effects" cant say one way or other...

though pumps are a little better with r-ala, vascularity same as with racemic, no bloating (which was obvious with racemic)... as far a heartburn (never had any.. so cant say)

ALA causes water retension?

 

[macrophage69alpha]

interesting 2 votes for racemic ALA, but no posts... wonder why?

lets see iceburg and iceman are logged on..

 

[macrophage69alpha]

What about as a liver protectant?

really not clear..

issue is whether cytosolic reduction of s-ala to DHLA is effective to protect liver (r-ala is reduced in the mitochodria)..

just cant say, though the racemic should be fine for this alone.. as it should be half r-ala (though if close to expiry even a year or 2.. dont buy it.. obviously fresh is best) r-ala, according to manufacturers degrades in half the time of s-ala.. why exactly???

4 years as opposed to 2 years

 

[macrophage69alpha]

can see that SK* voted

sk* you may be too young to see the definitive effects..(youth typically=insulin sensitive)

btw-- you might want to try again when you are taking an aromatase inhibitor (a place where you might see a bigger difference)

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Umm no actually I didn't vote, I never took r-ala to make a decision. One thing for sure, I don't notice jack shit from ALA except a little heartburn and hope that it helps my liver while I am on 17-aa's.

interesting??

it will help with liver (regardless of type.. as long as it has decent r-ala content.. and even then it still may be OK.. see my other post)

but for the anabolic effect you may want to take SLIN (as you said in other post) which may be of more benefit to you... as at your age insulin sensitivity should be good.. which is why juvenlie rats did not see the same effects as older, or obese ones.. low estrogen rats will also see good effects.. in theory)

 

[SofaGeorge]

that my one vote-
r-ala is much better. at least for insulin sensitivity. It only takes a couple days to notice this.

people who will notice most benefits.. older (insulin resistance), higher bodyfat(insulin resistance), lower estrogen (including those taking aromatase inhibitors) which decreases insulin sensitivity... among others


as far as KETO.. it is not even clear whether this is true KETO or metabolites of ALA giving a false positive..


as far as "anabolic effects" cant say one way or other...

though pumps are a little better with r-ala, vascularity same as with racemic, no bloating (which was obvious with racemic)... as far a heartburn (never had any.. so cant say)

Macro - this poll is going to become pretty useless really fast if you use this thread as a sales pitch vehicle for r-ALA.

Please, try to restrain from posting.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Macro - this poll is going to become pretty useless really fast if you use this thread as a sales pitch vehicle for r-ALA.

Please, try to restrain from posting.

actually just trying to get those that have voted to post.. and just answering questions, not pimping r-ala. Obviously the effects are different. and trying to clarify the exogenous insulin issue for SK*

you have noticed that there are 5 votes and only one post.. though would venture to guess that Ice's post counts as his vote, though not sure how valuable it is since he has not tried both.

 

[SofaGeorge]

Umm no actually I didn't vote, I never took r-ala to make a decision. One thing for sure, I don't notice jack shit from ALA except a little heartburn and hope that it helps my liver while I am on 17-aa's.

I've taken r-ALA but not ALA. I'm not sure if I'm getting actual results or if it is the placebo effect. By appearance... it does seem to be working. I've eaten a few incredible cheat meals... yet my b/f is still dropping... and it was low to begin with.

The jury will be out for me personally for a while as to whether or not it is really working, but for now I'm starting to believe more and more that it is having a tangible benefit. Unfortunately, I've got six pack abs so I'm not willing to test the limits to heavily. I'm eating pretty clean because I don't want a gut.

The thing I find puzzling right now is that I can find no studies that seem to accurately reference a proper human doseage range for either r-ALA or ALA. If anyone can point me towards any I would be very interested in seeing how an effective dose range has been established.

Also, I'm trying to find out if there is a know time line of efficacy. (What's the half-life of this stuff? And do carbs or anything shorten/affect the half-life?

 

[SofaGeorge]

actually just trying to get those that have voted to post.. and just answering questions, not pimping r-ala. Obviously the effects are different. and trying to clarify the exogenous insulin issue for SK*

you have noticed that there are 5 votes and only one post.. though would venture to guess that Ice's post counts as his vote, though not sure how valuable it is since he has not tried both.

The intention of this survey is to get feed back ONLY from people who have tried both. That's why I haven't voted. I've only tried r-ALA.

If I had to give an early vote I'd say it definitely seems to work, but it is much too soon to give an actual quanatative answer - and I can't do a comparison without trying ALA.

 

[luto199]

okay we all know by now Macro and Ulter make $$$ from selling R-Ala and we know Iceman TRIES to make $$$ selling ALA (although i dont know how successful he is). Now, as long as their responses are founded with some proof to back them up then let them post. I just hope the bickering goes away, its in every single ala thread! Dont point fingers just shut face!

 

[macrophage69alpha]

sofageorge,

part of the reason that you see benefits that Sk* did not is due to age. this is pretty clear from the studies, juveniles(at least rats)..unless insulin resistant or diabetic get much less effect.

as far as half life.. it is a matter of rate of absorption and excretion, though one would venture that onset is 5-20 min (depends on food, water, etc) with effect peaking and rapidly descending within a 60-90 min time frame.. this is what the studies which are not all that in depth show.. basically it varies but once you get a peak there is fairly rapid excretion

 

[SofaGeorge]

sofageorge,

part of the reason that you see benefits that Sk* did not is due to age. this is pretty clear from the studies, juveniles(at least rats)..unless insulin resistant or diabetic get much less effect.

as far as half life.. it is a matter of rate of absorption and excretion, though one would venture that onset is 5-20 min (depends on food, water, etc) with effect peaking and rapidly descending within a 60-90 min time frame.. this is what the studies which are not all that in depth show.. basically it varies but once you get a peak there is fairly rapid excretion

I wouldn't expect a healthy normal 19 year old to see much benefit from r-ALA/ALA if they have the real world ascribed effect.

Given a 5-20 min onset with peak spike in 60-90... effectiveness or lack there of is critically affected by how long r-ALA/ALA remains active after that peak. I'm sure you didn't overlook carb peaks and double spiking when you were addressing dose and timing of dose for r-ALA.

I took my first dose of 300mg prior to a high carb dinner. I assumed the probablity of a rapid downside curve and took a second dose of 200 mg 105-120 minutes later.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

I took my first dose of 300mg prior to a high carb dinner. I assumed the probablity of a rapid downside curve and took a second dose of 200 mg 105-120 minutes later.

interesting approach, though you should be able to use a little less with second dose.. 200mg is probably overkill

 

[luto199]

I wouldn't expect a healthy normal 19 year old to see much benefit from r-ALA/ALA if they have the real world ascribed effect.

Can you clarify this, im 19 and just started on R-ala. I used to be a little butterball so i assume i have am insulin resistant. Why would it make a difference if i am 19 or 90?

 

[SofaGeorge]

interesting approach, though you should be able to use a little less with second dose.. 200mg is probably overkill

Possibly... but I can't find ANY accurate reference for what does ranges might work... what carb or glycemic ranges might affect dose amounts... etc...

Since the dosage ranges for r-ALA and ALA seem to be based wholly on voodoo and guess work... I prefer overkill to gaining a 1/8 of an inch on my waist.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

btw- just wanted to make clear that the vote was based on my personal experience. Have used ALA off and on for about 5 years... I was actually using 2-3grams a day of racemic(kilosports) while on vacation in australia.. interestingly talking to someone who saw me there today. said that I had leaned out a bit, they asked if my bloated belly had gone away.. (this person knows next to nothing about supps this was just an interesting outside observation.. at least to me).. btw- still had abs(relatively ), just distended belly.

 

[SofaGeorge]

Can you clarify this, im 19 and just started on R-ala. I used to be a little butterball so i assume i have am insulin resistant. Why would it make a difference if i am 19 or 90?

I'm 43. Becoming insulin resistant is part of aging.

Until I was 35 I couldn't store bodyfat no matter how hard I tried. I ate pizza, cake, icecream, and brownies as main courses any time I wanted to and never had to worry about getting fat.

At about 37-38... putting on a waist became possible... and by 40 it was easy if I didn't eat carefully.

Most 19 year olds are not insulin resistant. Most 90 year olds are.

If you are a butterball at 19 you are very possibly insulin resistant.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Can you clarify this, im 19 and just started on R-ala. I used to be a little butterball so i assume i have am insulin resistant. Why would it make a difference if i am 19 or 90?

increases insulin resistance is highly correlated with age.

some ethnicities, particularly american indians, eskimos and some of african descent may have rapid and early onset of insulin resistance due to hereditary factors (related to ancestral diet)

but you can be young and insulin resistant.. it is becoming quite common due to a # of environmental and dietary factors

 

[macrophage69alpha]

AS OF THIS MOMENT: 6 votes but only one post. MINE.. dont vote unless you intend to post


dont vote unless you have actually used both

so as of now 100% of people posting in this thread, who have actually used both racemic ala and r-ala, have gotten better results with r-ala.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

btw- if you are actually going to post.. post why one was better than the other.. what effects were different better.. otherwise it really helps no one..

there are likely situations where racemic is better.. perhaps the KETO and perhaps for sheer bulking (though in my case this led to large fat gains with racemic.. have not tried with r-ala yet)

 

[HighIntensity]

haha

I voted mac you know my pos.

ALA R is ok, but I am going to just go racemic

 

[macrophage69alpha]

haha

I voted mac you know my pos.

ALA R is ok, but I am going to just go racemic

totally accepted

though think that basing your analysis on the presence of the side effects is not the "best method" of analysis.. but that it is after all .. very individual.. It seems to that the increased plasma insulin from the racemic is something that you find to be beneficial for you.. in which case.. if that is what you are looking for then it is a better choice.

btw- when you get a bit older.. think you'll be changing the tune.. well.. maybe

 

[HighIntensity]

older I am 26 years old

So explain this to me mac., How did I get in this shape then if ALA was suppose to be makeing me fat all these years?

You can throw every bit of propaganda at me if you want about ala type r, but the truth is the mirror shows the true picture.

What is the point of ala, besides of course liver protection and the best anti o known to man. Ah to increase slin production, why to shuttle carbs and protien into the muscles. Taken 20-25 mins before a big carb up meal.

Listen you and Ulter are smart men, but I train, live, and will compete in this sport. So don't give me this and that about age.

Honestly hate to say it but I will most likely blow you both off of the stage.

so please save the age comments for others
not a VET and a PT

thank you


oh BTW
you got a package, more free ALA type R id hype it 2

 

[macrophage69alpha]

older I am 26 years old

So explain this to me mac., How did I get in this shape then if ALA was suppose to be makeing me fat all these years?

no one said that racemic ala makes you fat, only that it increases plasma insulin levels and that many users report increases in interperitoneal fat (distended belly).. at higher dosages.. it is important to note that at least according to your posts that you only use it to carb up (at least previously) and not continuously through out the day.. though this may have changed recently

You can throw every bit of propaganda at me if you want about ala type r, but the truth is the mirror shows the true picture.

no one said that racemic ala does not work.. particularly if used solely for post workout carb-up and by those whose insulin sensitivity is good.. no is trying to use propaganda.. you said that you did not think r-ala was as good because you did not get the same side effects.. those were the reasons.. that was all that was said

What is the point of ala, besides of course liver protection and the best anti o known to man. Ah to increase slin production, why to shuttle carbs and protien into the muscles. Taken 20-25 mins before a big carb up meal.

actually, decreasing plasma insulin and increasing tissue sensitivity to insulin are the goals of r-ala use

Listen you and Ulter are smart men, but I train, live, and will compete in this sport. So don't give me this and that about age.

it is a fact.. insulin sensitivity decreases with age.. whether you compete is irrelevant (though good for you)

Honestly hate to say it but I will most likely blow you both off of the stage.
interesting...

so please save the age comments for others
not a VET and a PT

interesting... but once again age comment had nothing to do with experience or knowledge.. with age insulin sensitivity decreases.. so when you are older it may be more of a concern to you

thank you


oh BTW
you got a package, more free ALA type R id hype it 2
you really think this... interesting..wrong but interesting..

 

[hitmeoff]

OK i voted.

Didnt see any "leaning out" on either of the two. Used 1200mg ED of racemic vrs 600mg ED of r-ala. Of course, my diet is far form being great, and I dont think I was taking these at any particular time (as far as meals go). I basically just took them through out the day. Thats probably why I havent seen leaning out on either.

My main reason for taking ALA s or liver proteciton. Given that, I will say I break out in hives when I take racemic, so while it may be a good liver protectant, its not a viable one for me. So far ive had NO allergic reactions what so ever with r-ALA. So strictly speaking on liver protecting qualities and viability, r-ALA wins it hands down, because I can actually use it.

PS: How should I take r-ALA to "lean out"?

 

[Ulter]

I like the fact that sofageorge put up the poll. I think you probably should have waited another 4-6 weeks to get a better sampling since the first bottles were delivered only 4 weeks ago. But maybe we can post this again at the end of August.
Also, I don't think the choice of "regular works better" is valid however since the only part of the "regular" that works IS the r-ALA that's in it. "I didn't notice any difference" or "they work the same" is a better choice. But as macro said the poll is not an efficient way to gauge the effectiveness unless people post. Because clearly the post is where you get the credible feedback.
As some of you may know our biggest worry is not polls and posts. It is that the drug companies are moving to make r-ALA prescription only. And it’s not because it doesn’t work.

Hitmeoff, You are living proof of why people should use the r-ALA. It is naturally ocurring in your body thus your body knows what it is and knows what to do with it. s-ALA it doesn't and that's why it may cause an allergic reaction. This is also why r-ALA is 26 times faster into your system.
You should be taking it right before each meal to help you lean out.

 

[Ula]

I used the r-ALA for 3 week and now I fit in pants that I didn't a month ago. This is even more amazing to me because I haven't trained in 6 weeks. It's wonderful!!!! I can't wait to start training with it.

 

[luto199]

hmm Ula i looked in 3 of your 4 other posts and it seems you have used Anabolic Fitness nyc stack, and yohimburn as well, with success. What changed your mind and got you on this?

I will answer this one. I have been using Yohimburn now for 4 weeks and I was using it to burn fat like everyone else. TODAY, talk about coinsidence, I looked at the back of my legs and I could not believe what I saw. The cellulite that has been there since I was pregnant 7 years ago was almost GONE. I can't believe what I am seeing here THIS STUFF IS AMAZING!!! I didn't read anything about Yohimburn fading cellulite so this was a very pleasant and unexpected surprise.

I have for my last contest and it works great. It burns fat without burning your brain like ECA does. It (anabolic fitness nyc stack) is the same thing they sell here only they call it PPA here.

 

[SofaGeorge]

I like the fact that sofageorge put up the poll. I think you probably should have waited another 4-6 weeks to get a better sampling since the first bottles were delivered only 4 weeks ago. But maybe we can post this again at the end of August.

There seems at this point to be too little 'real world' experience to give any validity to the efficacy of r-ALA over ALA other than enthusiastic estimation. This doesn't mean hither or yon... it simply agrees with the fact this poll appears premature. I had hoped there would be more early adapters for a comparison.

I've read through PubMed extensively and find the available information highly interesting but also extremely scanty regarding an application that would assist b/f control or reduction. There appears to be no basis for establishing an efficacious dose of r-ALA or ALA and no basis for an appropriate dosage pattern. (That isn't necessarily a problem. That is actually typical of almost all OTC supplements.)

The most interesting comparison study that I would want to see now is a control of two groups (over age 40) with one taking ALA and one taking r-ALA... judged against 'historic' controls. Unfortunately, costs of a diet related control study are far more prohibitive than a simple supplement study.

All that said... I'm extremely interested in ALA and r-ALA. I put down 5 Thai dishes with rice added Saturday night... then followed that with two triple scoop brownie sundays at Baskin Robbin's... smothered in hot fudge sauce. That was my second cheat meal in two days. Both were supplemented with r-ALA. Normally I can't get away with any cheat meals at all. Now... I'm actually DOWN b/f... and this is following a heavy dose 32 day DNP cycle.

The real world is the most interesting test tube.

 

[Ula]

Luto you have a good memory. I don't use NYC or any other product for fat burning when I am not training for a show. Those posts were 6 months ago when I was planning on going to the Team Universe in Aug, but I can't go.
I was very surprised like sofageorge and some others that I could take r-ALA, eat a less than a perfect meal and still lose bodyfat. That seems impossible for a supp but my sister and I both had the same experience so it's real.

 

[luto199]

alright I see, it just seemed like you were a litttle AF Store happy. BTW, have you ever used regular ala? How long have you usd R-ala and when did you start?

 

[kibrood]

I used racemic for almost 3 months and have been using r-ALA for a little over 2 weeks. I took a 2-3 week break of ALA between each product.

I know it's still a bit soon to fully evaluate r-ALA, so please take that into consideration.

At this point in time I'm seeing the same results on both versions which is approx. .5 - .75% of BF lass per week. I did not have any problems with heartburn with either products as I always take my dose with meals (meals that contain carbs). No allergic reactions either.

My dose of racemic was approx. 3g per day while r-ALA is approx. 1g. My stats are 30 yrs old, currently 163-164 lbs. @ 12-13% BF. My carb intake per day was approx. 160-180g.

I frequently test my urine with ketostix and on both versions I test positive for trace to small levels of ketones. I'm interested to hear more about the possibility of racemic triggering false positives, but whatever the case may be I'm judging things by my fat loss results rather than the colour of my stix.

So, at this point I think they are both good products. I assume at my age I'm still fairly insulin sensitive which may explain why I see similar results with both. If I were to pick one type over the other I would have to say, at this time, that I'd choose racemic. It's purely an economical decision as I can get racemic for a slighty lower price.

I'll continue to track my progress and post if the results change my opinion. I hope something in this post was helpful.

 

[Ulter]

"I hope something in this post was helpful."
Yes it was. It was a great post.

 

[SofaGeorge]

[I hope something in this post was helpful. [/B]

Best post yet, Kibrood. Karma for you.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

age is going to be a big factor in response.. as well as hormonal balance (those using aromatase inhibitors will likely also see a very good response)


SO PLEASE POST AGE

OR AT LEAST WHETHER OVER 20, OVER 25, OVER 30 (THIS SEEMS TO BE A BIG TURNING POINT FOR MOST), ETC..

BTW- OVER 30

 

[hitmeoff]

OK i voted.

Didnt see any "leaning out" on either of the two. Used 1200mg ED of racemic vrs 600mg ED of r-ala. Of course, my diet is far form being great, and I dont think I was taking these at any particular time (as far as meals go). I basically just took them through out the day. Thats probably why I havent seen leaning out on either.

My main reason for taking ALA s or liver proteciton. Given that, I will say I break out in hives when I take racemic, so while it may be a good liver protectant, its not a viable one for me. So far ive had NO allergic reactions what so ever with r-ALA. So strictly speaking on liver protecting qualities and viability, r-ALA wins it hands down, because I can actually use it.

Ok my age is 23!!!

 

[SofaGeorge]

Ok my age is 23!!!

Crap... I should have thought to solicit comparisons from people over 40 ONLY.

 

[Ulter]

Well no you don't have to go that far but it will be more helpful in determining if age is playing a large role or not. The more data the easier it gets to reach a conclusion. If that's even possible.

 

[SOLID]

haven't tried the ala but the r-ala has made a diference in my physique...I ran out got on this new creatine SWOLE and bloated up like a ballon held alot of water lost the veins I had previously, droped the Swole, got some more r-ala and poof veins and feeling of tightness is coming back. I'm sold...just wish it was cheap

 

[Frackal]

My thoughts:

Firstly, this is not meant to be an asskissing post, but I will say I support Macro, Ulter et al because thusfar they have been pretty fucking honest and fairpriced.

(well ok I swear yohimburn used to be 59.99 not 69.99 for the big one =p )


AF/MP Tech is pretty much the only supp company I dont think is shit anyway, at least they put out hardcore products and dont bullshit. I am very much looking forward to trying yohimburn soon on my face and abs. (will post results)

Now, when it comes to r-ala vs. racemic. I just turned 20, I have tried kilosports, nutriteam, BAC racemic and of course AF r-ala. I feel the nutriteam is the best racemic ALA judging just by the pumps I got from it. From what I've read I feel that if your goal is 100% pure hardcore bulking not concerned about added bodyfat from the increased insulin than perhaps the racemic is a better choice. All other times I would vote for the r-ala. I have been using it for about 5 weeks now I think and I've steadily lost bodyfat whilst preserving muscle coming off my cycle, I am sure I've lost at least a 1% bodyfat in the last week and a half since I changed my food intake and upped my r-ala dosage.

Another thing I noticed about r-ala is that if I take 400mg before my morning meal, (150 grams potato flakes, lowfat cottage cheese, whey) than I go into hypo and get very sleepy and shaky ... this would not happen even at 900mg of nutriteam's.

I cannot comment on the distended gut factor because I was genuinely eating over 7,000 calories a day including a gallon of whole milk which will make your gut puff out to the moon.

The anti-oxidant factor, who knows? But I assume r-ala is better from the studies.

Now even though I am 20 and I am sure I have a good insulin sensitivity to begin with because I'm naturally lean, I have seen a big, worthwhile ($$) difference with both ala's in terms of pumps and muscle hardness.

 

[luto199]

Well i was at the gym today and my deads were up and my back presses jumped a bit. When i was done working out i weighed myself and i was 3 pounds lighter than Monday. I started on the r-ALA last Saturday i belive.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Crap... I should have thought to solicit comparisons from people over 40 ONLY.

at 30+ the responses should be fairly consistently positive with respect to more noticeable insulin sensitization (as this seem from all anecdotal evidence to be a hormonal turning point and an age where insulin sensitivity is at the very least declining among most..)

likely as you move up age categories.. responses will be better and better.

perhaps another poll to see....

obviously there should be an increase in insulin sensitivity among all users but the affects will be more pronounced among certain categories.. with age being one of them..

there are quite a few other categories.. but focused on age as that is more universal a category .. time marches on..

 

[rangerx83]

Hi there,

As most of you guys know I was the first proponent of massive ALA doses for fat loss purposes (do a search). Before that most people (well, maybe except for Fonz) were talking about taking the usual 300-400mg ALA for liver protection.

I have been incredibly surprised by r-ALA. I'm 41 and at first I thought it wasn't working, since I was using the bad effects of racemic ala to gage the efficacy of r-ALA. I used to take 5000-6000mg racemic ALA per day, and while it did work, I had to deal with those unpleasant side effects, such as heartburn and intense sleepiness.

With r-ALA I get the same vascular, and fat reducing effects as plain racemic ALA for less than a third the amount. Plus I don't get sleepy or experience heartburn. As a matter of fact, with r-ALA I am more alert than usual after I eat.
Usually when I eat a carb laden meal (even without taking any ALA) I do get a little tired and sleepy, due to the insulin spike's effects. ALA reduces that tremendously, and seems to give me a very, very even energy level.

I have been combining r-ALA with CoQ10 and Acetyl-L-Carnitine and I feel great!

And as I said before I'm 41.

regards,

Rangerx83

 

[SofaGeorge]

And as I said before I'm 41.

regards,

Rangerx83

Ranger, can you post your dose pattern for r-ALA?

 

[rangerx83]

RangerX, can you post your dose pattern for r-ALA?

Certainly.
Morning upon awaking: 200mg r-ALA + 500mg A-L-C + 200mg CoQ10 On empty stomach.

I wait an hour before I eat breakfast.

Morning with breakfast: 200mg r-ALA

Noon: 300mg r-ALA

Preworkout carb drink (220g carbs) 600mg r-ALA

Postworkout meal 300mg r-ala

evening snack: 200mg r-ala

Total 1800mg r-ALA per day which is slightly less than a third of my original ALA dosage per day, namely 6000mg.

You can skip the first part with the ALC, since I'm doing that for anti-aging purposes...

I'm also doing 50mg T. Prop + 80mg Tren EOD. Saturday is my last injection.

BTW, I would estimate that you need just under 3mg r-ALA per carb gram...

(That's right, I eat 600g carbs per day roughly, that's almost 1.5 lbs, and still vascular at 3.2%bf! )


Regards,

--RangerX83

 

[macrophage69alpha]

ALC is a good addition.. there may be some synergy.. at least from a performance aspect..

btw- ALC tends to make other supps look cheap.. ... very cheap..

 

[rluto]

THIS is luto199 on my cousins computer
Thats crazy Macro!!! One week for one bottle? I bet ulter loves you j/k
BTW ulter wouldnt it be sweet if you could get us good fellas here at elite a sweet deal for buying a few bottles

Usually when I eat a carb laden meal (even without taking any ALA) I do get a little tired and sleepy, due to the insulin spike's effects. ALA reduces that tremendously, and seems to give me a very, very even energy level.

I can vouch for this!

 

[macrophage69alpha]

ranger,

have you tried lower doses? to see if you can get the same or similar effect?

 

[rangerx83]

rangerX,

have you tried lower doses? to see if you can get the same or similar effect?

Macro,
No I haven't had the time. I've only been using it for two weeks.

Anyway, my dosages are based on three things:

1) The agreed upon consensus that r-ALA is roughly 3 times as powerful as the racemic. Consequently you only need to use a third as much..


2) The amount of carbohydrates I'm eating, which right now overs around 600gm/day. (still losing fat btw)

3) The rule of thumb that you need approximately 10mg of the racemic ALA per carb gram to achieve good, noticeable physical changes. This is based on what I and many others found out about the racemic through experimentation..

Since I'm eating 600gms carbs/day and only roughly 3 mg of r-ALA are needed for one carb gram, I need to use 3 X 600 = 1800 mg of r-ALA.

I've been using r-ALA for about 2 weeks, and since I used about 6000mg/day of the racemic to achieve my desired goal, that I would now switch to about 1800mg/day of r-ALA. I just wanted to play it safe..

One question I have about r-ALA's properties is by what mechanism. does it cause incredible pumps and impressive vascular changes. We've all experienced ALA's vasodilator effect on veins. It seems to also induce new vein growth. I understand that it's great for the mitochondria and that r-ALA shuttles nutrients preferentially to muscle tissue. But what does all that have to do with r-ALA's mild 'anabolic' properties?

Regards,

RangerX83

 

[akrama]

Poll Not Legit

Despite the fact that I have voted, I still consider this poll to be invalid and not legit.

You guys need to keep in mind that this message board is controlled by moderators who hold specific interest and financial returns with AF products, therefore, it is very easy for them to tamper with the results.

 

[luto199]

well if thats the case and you do not trust mods here, why don't you go do a different Discussion board and see what people are saying there.

 

[Hbone]

Mac, Ulter, Ranger, Since I have Alot of the racemic left and Just ordered the R- could I mix the two and get good result or would the s- cancel out to much of the r-.

 

[Hbone]

Bump

 

[luto199]

i wouldn't mix them, you would still see the side effects of racemic, and only half the results of R-ala. I would just finish of the racemic or sell it, then goto the r-ala.

 

[Ulter]

Hbone I agree with luto if you are going to spend the money on the r-ALA don't pollute it with the racemic. Once you get the body that you want maybe rotate them EOD.

 

[Hbone]

Rotation sounds good.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

dont vote on the poll unless you intend to post as well

 

[Frackal]

omg those big letters scared the crap outta me

 

[macrophage69alpha]

[SIZE=0.2]beware....[/SIZE]

 

[Train Harder]

How long does one bottle of r-ala last? What is the recommended dose per day? I fit matters I eat 5 times a day and take in around 300-350 grams of carbs a day.

 

[rangerx83]

How long does one bottle of r-ala last? What is the recommended dose per day? I fit matters I eat 5 times a day and take in around 300-350 grams of carbs a day.

Approximately 900 to 1100mg r-ALA/day.

 

[SofaGeorge]

Approximately 900 to 1100mg r-ALA/day.

Ranger, thanks for posting your numbers. I'm highly skeptical of low dosing r-ALA... and think to properly test it I'll probably get 10 more bottles this week and may bump it up to 2,000mg a day.

For now I'm going to follow your dose pattern and see what the results are like.

So far for personal results I label r-ALA 'highly interesting' but the jury is still out.

 

[Hbone]

So 3mgs per gram of carbs?????

 

[luto199]

yea so if you have a meal with 100 carbs take 3 pills minimum

 

[SofaGeorge]

yea so if you have a meal with 100 carbs take 3 pills minimum

I'm starting to think this is pretty close to an efficacious dose.

I've been getting pretty experimental with high carb meals. One night I put away 5 Thai dishes then two triple scoop Sundays at Baskin Robbin (covered in chocolate sauce of course). This was following eating high carb meals each of the previous days. I took a ton of r-ALA prior to the Thai dishes and the triple scoops. No change on my waistline, caliper measurements, or LBS on the scale... and I normally cannot get away with high carbs at all.

I followed this up a couple nights ago by quaffing a pint of Ben and Jerry's Carmle Fudge... with another high carb meal prior to that. Still no change on the waist line, calipers, or scale.

If I low dose r-ALA I see definite change in b/f. Higher dosing I am not.

The jury is going to be out on r-ALA for a long time, but for now it gets more and more interesting as the real world lab rats experiment with it.

 

[Ulter]

You are one of many people who have posted how they have eaten poorly and not gained any body fat while using r-ALA. But I think your "poor diet" may beat them all. No offense
I don't think real world lab rats would be trying to diet on food from Baskin Robbins and Ben and Jerry. So if you do this I agree you may need a lot more r-ALA than someone actually cutting. Let us know how much you are using to eat like that and remain stable.

 

[SofaGeorge]

You are one of many people who have posted how they have eaten poorly and not gained any body fat while using r-ALA. But I think your "poor diet" may beat them all. No offense
I don't think real world lab rats would be trying to diet on food from Baskin Robbins and Ben and Jerry. So if you do this I agree you may need a lot more r-ALA than someone actually cutting. Let us know how much you are using to eat like that and remain stable.

The information of efficacy is enhanced by pushing the envelope. Anybody can diet and do cardio and take r-ALA, tootsie pops, or placebos and see their b/f go down. If r-ALA has any actual effect it has it in light of a difficult environment (i.e., non perfect eating and non-perfect exercise) instead of a convenient one.

The real effectiveness of r-ALA becomes more or less apparent by deliberately testing the product. I'm not offended by the 'poor diet' comment. I'm deliberately experimenting with a poor diet and a series of poor diet meals to see if I can come up with any estimation of effective does vs. carbs vs. high GI ratio.

One person cannot do this and a research study to establish it is prohibitive. However, with multiple human lab rats playing with ALA and r-ALA more cumulative interesting posts will add to a body of popular information.

I'm following a very controlled diet/cardio pattern as of Saturday AM... through Wednesday. My current weight and b/f is at a long time low now of 198 LBS (down from 230-240lbs.) I've seen my 18-19 inch arms dwindle in size... but I currently look like a cut and shredded pit bull (and Godzilla doesn't have this many veins popping out everywhere. I am the Lizard King!)

I have to research scientist tracking my calories/cardio and r-ALA intake vs. my current b/f level. They have made an estimate that if r-ALA does have efficacy I will drop to 197 LBS by Wednesday. I haven't weighted 197 LBS since the '80s... and my current calorie intake is not overly low... so I will be very interested to see it I drop that pound.

Anecdotal additions -

I had the hottest looking girl in the gym stop her work out two days ago to cross the room and say, "I just had to come over and tell you how good you look. You are looking amazing!"

Yesterday I passed a construction site while running with my dog. A group of the consturction workers started shouting, "Hey, put your shirt on!" I turned back to see what they were shouting about and one of them yelled, "You're making the rest of us look bad!"

Does r-ALA work? I don't know yet. I do know that I've got the freakiest vein popping out look I've ever had... and everyone is noticing it... so it isn't just my imagination.

 

[luto199]

Hey i was at the gym today and while doing some curls i noticed in the mirror that my viens in my arm are actually growing. The one vien that goes down the middle of my bicep was more apparent than i ever had seen it. I hope its another sign of r-ala doing its thing.
P.S. Sofa id like to hear more about this diet, sounds like somthing i'd like to try.

One night I put away 5 Thai dishes then two triple scoop Sundays at Baskin Robbin (covered in chocolate sauce of course). This was following eating high carb meals each of the previous days.

I followed this up a couple nights ago by quaffing a pint of Ben and Jerry's Carmle Fudge... with another high carb meal prior to that. Still no change on the waist line, calipers, or scale.

J/k, but props to you if you can get away with eating that shit. BTW how old are you?

 

[Fonz]

Hbone I agree with luto if you are going to spend the money on the r-ALA don't pollute it with the racemic. Once you get the body that you want maybe rotate them EOD.

OK. Got the R-ala and normal ALA.

Plus, I have a glucometer. The one with the Softclix system.

What I'm going to do is measure the impact of
both r-ala and r+s/ala on my blood glucose levels.

If r-ala lowers BG MORE than normal ala mg per mg, THEN
it can be said its BEST for bodybuilding purposes.

Fonz

 

[SofaGeorge]

OK. Got the R-ala and normal ALA.

Plus, I have a glucometer. The one with the Softclix system.

What I'm going to do is measure the impact of
both r-ala and r+s/ala on my blood glucose levels.

If r-ala lowers BG MORE than normal ala mg per mg, THEN
it can be said its BEST for bodybuilding purposes.

Fonz

Fonz, it ws just suggested to me:

"Ask him to consider first thing in the morning testing (empty stomach) followed by identical meals for three days... one to establish base... on ALA... one r-ALA... then testing BG over the next 2-3 hour period."

 

[Fonz]

Fonz, it ws just suggested to me:

"Ask him to consider first thing in the morning testing (empty stomach) followed by identical meals for three days... one to establish base... on ALA... one r-ALA... then testing BG over the next 2-3 hour period."

You read my mind........LOL

I'm going to be doing 5 measurements/day.
In the AM(before eating), and then before and after meals .

This is how its going to work:

Wake up(5AM): Measure BG. T=0

Eat Meal 1. 8AM (T+3)

Measure BG 2 hours after. (T+5)

Eat meal 2. 1 PM (T+8)

Measure BG 2 hours after(T+10).

Eat meal 3. 6 PM(T+13)

Measure BG 2 hours after(T+15)

END.

Meals are exactly 5 hours apart and are the SAME.

(This is REALLY going to REALLY SUCK palate wise.)

Its going to be bars/protein powders.......

We shall see.....

I shall make a new post for this.

Fonz

 

[macrophage69alpha]

fonz,

would avoid bars.. as glycerol potentially may have an impact on both blood sugar and test.. if not using bars with glycerol.. disregard..

 

[SofaGeorge]

You read my mind........LOL

I'm going to be doing 5 measurements/day.
In the AM(before eating), and then before and after meals .

This is how its going to work:

Wake up(5AM): Measure BG. T=0

Eat Meal 1. 8AM (T+3)

Measure BG 2 hours after. (T+5)

Eat meal 2. 1 PM (T+8)

Measure BG 2 hours after(T+10).

Eat meal 3. 6 PM(T+13)

Measure BG 2 hours after(T+15)

END.

Meals are exactly 5 hours apart and are the SAME.

(This is REALLY going to REALLY SUCK palate wise.)

Its going to be bars/protein powders.......

We shall see.....

I shall make a new post for this.

Fonz

Fonz, I know this is pie in the sky to suggest to you - but if you have access to a Gluco-Watch that would be the best option. It will give you 4-5 automated tests per hour (non invasive.)

If you don't have ready access to a GW I will be running your same experiment soon wearing one.

I know it is a pain in the ass... but you may want to do more BG tests following at least one meal... like every 10-20 min. If your monitor is invasive this will be a pain in the ass (more like in the finger) but it will show how fast up/down r-ALA/ALA might bell curve on effectiveness.

 

[SofaGeorge]

fonz,

would avoid bars.. as glycerol potentially may have an impact on both blood sugar and test.. if not using bars with glycerol.. disregard..

Instead of bars I would try measured meals with an estimated GI/carb impact.

Even an Egg McMuffin has a pretty established base GI/carb impact... and it is a measured meal.

Australia now requires GI listing on grocery items, and many diabetic packaged meals already include it. It isn't to hard to get a GI estimate for many of the top frozen dinner lines that are sold internationally.

 

[Fonz]

Instead of bars I would try measured meals with an estimated GI/carb impact.

Even an Egg McMuffin has a pretty established base GI/carb impact... and it is a measured meal.

Australia now requires GI listing on grocery items, and many diabetic packaged meals already include it. It isn't to hard to get a GI estimate for many of the top frozen dinner lines that are sold internationally.

One big problem.

ALL meals HAVE to be the same for my test to be objective.

I think I'll buy some pre-mixed 50/50 Pro/carb drink
and use that only.

I'll probably be dreaming of meat by day 3....LOL

Oh, and btw I have the Gluco-Trend BG monitor. Got it
in the UK. Took me a while to figure out where to buy
the right testing strips.

Fonz

 

[Fonz]

fonz,

would avoid bars.. as glycerol potentially may have an impact on both blood sugar and test.. if not using bars with glycerol.. disregard..

Noted.

Scratch Protein bars then as mine is LOADED with glycerol.

The other ALA I'll be using btw is Kilosport. This should
prove interesting in any case as I don't believe
anybody has ever measured ACTUAL BG fluctuations
in a PERSON with any kind of ALA

I can't believe I never thought of this sooner.......

Fonz

 

[caiza]

fonz where do you buy your ala from mate?

 

[Hugh Gellatts]

"I've been getting pretty experimental with high carb meals. One night I put away 5 Thai dishes then two triple scoop Sundays at Baskin Robbin (covered in chocolate sauce of course). This was following eating high carb meals each of the previous days. I took a ton of r-ALA prior to the Thai dishes and the triple scoops. No change on my waistline, caliper measurements, or LBS on the scale... and I normally cannot get away with high carbs at all.

I followed this up a couple nights ago by quaffing a pint of Ben and Jerry's Carmle Fudge... with another high carb meal prior to that. Still no change on the waist line, calipers, or scale.

If I low dose r-ALA I see definite change in b/f. Higher dosing I am not.

The jury is going to be out on r-ALA for a long time, but for now it gets more and more interesting as the real world lab rats experiment with it."




(in sappy Tom Cruise Jerry Mcguire voice):

sofageorge....you had me at 'triple scoop.'

 

[luto199]

hey, HOW OLD ARE YOU people that are getting results? I was reading this article here http://morelife.org/supplements/RLA.html and in most of their tests, like Ulter has said, its the older rats who see benifits.

BTW have been reading conflicting advice on when to take this stuff. I have heard 30min to take advantage of glucose uptake, someone else said 15 min, and on the bottle it says right before the meal. So whats the real dealio?

 

[Fonz]

fonz where do you buy your ala from mate?

ALA?

Normal

1. Kilosports.com $60 for 1000 100mg caps
2. Vitamin Shoppe $45 for 120 300mg pills

R-ala

At AF. $20 for 100 100mg pills.

Fonz

 

[SofaGeorge]

luto199 .... You are so naive. Or, you are one of the AF team guy.... Half of my message has been deleted by the way....

It doesn't matter... I'm wasting my breath...

Akrama - have you had posts deleted from this thread?

 

[SofaGeorge]

Akrama - have you had posts deleted from this thread?

Macro, if people's posts are being edited or deleted for ANY reason... please lock or delete this thread.

 

[Train Harder]

Approximately 900 to 1100mg r-ALA/day.

Thanks Ranger but how many pills is that a day and how many pills come in a bottle of r-ala.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

locked at author's request