Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below purposefully not put herself in the situation where an assault is likely to occur? IF she doesnt know how to defend herself (taking classes, carrying pepper spray or a gun) does she have any responsibility in what happens to her?
is it a woman's responsibility to...
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stephen4327
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Responsibility shit, most women that are assaulted should be helped not blamed. When are we going to deal w/ the people that do the assaulting. All of us men on EF and just about any other place we may go love to see a women in a tight skirt showing alittle skin and looking good. That does not give any shit head the right to invade or abuse her. Its simple: If you rape a women or a man, if you hurt childeren , you should be put 6ft under!
if a girl is stumbling around a house party with people she doesnt know, drunk as shit, and gets raped, shes a moron, but the person/people who raped her are scumbag pieces of shit who should get their jaws smashed up through the top of their skull. same for walking home alone late at night by themselves in a sketch area type thing
What?!?!
So because a woman is raped or sexually assaulted it is her fault? No, I dont fucking think so...I was sexually assaulted and I know it was not my fault. I am currently only 98 lbs, therefor the assaulter was like jolly green giant..I was not that great at protecting myself and fighting him.lol
Let me tell you something, when you have a daughter and something happens to her whether sexually or physically are you just gonna stand there holding a coffee cup and tell her that she should have taken classes? Hell No, you are gonna want to rip the guys fucking head off and shove it clearly up his arse.
You should really think about subjects before posting like this!!!!
So because a woman is raped or sexually assaulted it is her fault? No, I dont fucking think so...I was sexually assaulted and I know it was not my fault. I am currently only 98 lbs, therefor the assaulter was like jolly green giant..I was not that great at protecting myself and fighting him.lol
Let me tell you something, when you have a daughter and something happens to her whether sexually or physically are you just gonna stand there holding a coffee cup and tell her that she should have taken classes? Hell No, you are gonna want to rip the guys fucking head off and shove it clearly up his arse.
You should really think about subjects before posting like this!!!!
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ANGEL
THANK YOU.. I have a little girl and I would KILL FOR HER IN A MIN!!!!!!! END of story.. As I said above KILL the assaulter.... NO fucking way can you blame the person that was assaulted.. I do not care if she is running around butt nacked... That in no way gives you a right to put your dick in her or hurt her in any way.........
THANK YOU.. I have a little girl and I would KILL FOR HER IN A MIN!!!!!!! END of story.. As I said above KILL the assaulter.... NO fucking way can you blame the person that was assaulted.. I do not care if she is running around butt nacked... That in no way gives you a right to put your dick in her or hurt her in any way.........
I agree...I mean woman are half naked at the beach, hell almost fully naked at the beach..Should they start wearing full length pants and long sleeved shirts to the beach due to assholes thinking that if something happens that it is their fault for exposing their bodies...I mean really now give me a break here..This discussion is about as good as a piece of used soggy ass t.ptime said:
I do not even see what the thread maker was thinking, evidently he was not!
Just looking to start some shit that is all...Hey though, whatever. Atleast this thread will show who here are men and who here are shitbags
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I have a MOM 2 sisters and a little girl and little man too!! BS aside we as men need to protect those that are weaker!
And look after those that at times use bad judgement.. Such as those that run around butt nacked... I would gladly shake the hand of a man that looked after one of my loved ones that got drunk or a little simple while out parting..
And look after those that at times use bad judgement.. Such as those that run around butt nacked... I would gladly shake the hand of a man that looked after one of my loved ones that got drunk or a little simple while out parting..
Angel said:
That's damn near the stupidest analogy I've ever heard, not surprising though, considering the source. I have in no way condoned any assault, rape, or whatever by any man in any situation. If I had a friend who was assaulted and she didn't take self defense classes, carry any non-lethal weapons, or do her best to keep herself out of the situation and got hurt again, I'd ask why she didnt take all necessary precautions...
As for the getting drunk and running around naked... yeah not much sympathy for a girl who did that in a fraternity house like mine. It's easy to claim rape afterwards when you're both drunk or it's consensual and then you regre3t it later.
I never said once I wouldn't feel sorry for her or that I would blame her for it. I also will educate any gf, wife, daughter, or any other female on her responsibility to protect herself. If it saves one person one time it was worth arguing with every female about it. The case that precipitated this is a friend of mine who has been assaulted more than once. She refuses to take any self defense classes, wont even touch a gun, and has only (since the last time) considered carrying pepper spray or the like. The subject had come up before and she had told me multiple times, she just didnt want to take classes or carry anything... I was like, okay you live alone, are frequently out by yourself, and dont pay attention well in parking lots... those aren't good odds. Unfortunately, she was assaulted and beaten a couple weekends ago. From how she described the situation I really have no idea if it was preventable. If you think that not preparing yourself for the possibility of something like that situation is acceptable practice... well that's on you.Angel said:
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juiceddreadlocks said:
I find it very interesting that your initial response to a woman who did not agree with your line of thinking was to personally attack her. Was that your MO with your friend? Damn, with friends like you, what woman needs an enemy?
So let me see if I understand your point of view correctly. Is it your belief that because a woman isn't physically able to defend herself against an attacker then she is somehow at the very least "partially" responsible?
You are kidding... right?
So now, women should all carry handguns? I mean pepper spray might just incite and already violent attacker, that is IF she can get to it in time. But IF she has the time and opportunity to fumble for her weapon while fighting for her life she may as well grab a weapon that will do the job correctly, right? See now, every woman doesn't have that option unless it is legal for her to obtain a permit for carrying a concealed weapon in all 50 states.
Believe me, now that I live in Texas the thought has entered my mind on several occasions. So now, some goon decides he just CAN'T keep his hands to himself. I should have to kill him in order to be "responsible"?
Self-defense classes? Not a bad idea, true. We should ALL take these sorts of classes as it certainly couldn't hurt, then of course, there has to be regular follow-up classes... that is, unless one freezes up during a violent attack and actually incites the attacker further. So now, instead a "simple rape" the guy might go nuts and kill his victim. But hey, at least she died fighting back... right? I am certain that her family will find that a HYUGE consolation.
Subby's point of view is actually quite sound. Too bad more girls/guys are out in the world for the first time in college and really don't understand the rammifications of such behavior until the deed is done: whether it is the guy whose life is ruined because of being falsely accused of a date-rape/rape situation because the girl sobers up and goes, "Oh shit! Now what will people think of me?" or the girl who is destroyed because a rite of passage turned into a life-long nightmare because a few drunk animals didn't understand the word NO or that you do NOT have the right to have sex with someone who is UNABLE to object.
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KillahBee said:
Yes, let's fucking frame this and send a gilded copy to all the loved ones of those people that perished 9-11.
Clearly it was THEIR fault because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time...
Shit, didn't they get the memo to stay home from work that day?I am always aware in parking lots - try not to go to unknown places alone - and I am a strong lady I guess, I mean, I'm no 98 pounds, and I workout so, I consider myself able to defend myself......
I do know just by my husband showing me last weekend how weak I am compared to him, and if someone wanted to rape me, I have no chance getting in my purse and pulling out pepper spray, and I just have to go for the eyeballs, and my instinct is to run, not fight. Maybe I can strangle him if I could get behind him somehow, but if he started to thrash about I could not quite hold on. Could I outrun him? Nope. No chance for me.
Alot of us ARE weaker, and there is really not much we can do.
LOL. I was telling him just Sat night that I would be able to fight off an attacker. Yeah. Nope. Not one time did I get away from his grasp in time to not be raped, or robbed and he is my husband.
I'm not sure that its a woman's responsibility. She cant control other people. She can only fight back. Still not her fault.
You do think that the lady would have been a little scared and tried to prevent another attack?
I do know just by my husband showing me last weekend how weak I am compared to him, and if someone wanted to rape me, I have no chance getting in my purse and pulling out pepper spray, and I just have to go for the eyeballs, and my instinct is to run, not fight. Maybe I can strangle him if I could get behind him somehow, but if he started to thrash about I could not quite hold on. Could I outrun him? Nope. No chance for me.
Alot of us ARE weaker, and there is really not much we can do.
LOL. I was telling him just Sat night that I would be able to fight off an attacker. Yeah. Nope. Not one time did I get away from his grasp in time to not be raped, or robbed and he is my husband.
I'm not sure that its a woman's responsibility. She cant control other people. She can only fight back. Still not her fault.
You do think that the lady would have been a little scared and tried to prevent another attack?
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cindylou said:
You were *play fighting* with your husband and the end result was still the same. You couldn't do jack schitt but had to yield to his will.
Are there things that women can do to be SAFER? Undoubtedly, like not walking in dark parking lots alone or not taking *a wrong turn* in a bad neighborhood. But no matter how cautious and carefull we in, in the end it is all left up to fate. Some women successfully fight off their attackers, others merely submit so as not to incite them and pray to God that they will "only" be raped.
ANYONE who places ANY responsibility on the victim of a violent crime is clearly misguided.
Sorta like placing the responsibility of getting mugged/robbed onto the victim because HE didn't have a handgun or wasn't strong enough (physically or mentally quick enough) to fight the attack off.
The whole line of thinking is hogwash and is sadly the reason why many victims keep their mouths shut allowing the criminals to run loose. The victims are ASHAMED because they are afraid they will be blamed. Threads like this clearly demonstrate why many violent criminals are still roaming the streets and are born every minute. It is because THEY CAN.
BIKINIMOM said:
I agree. Besides. Its not in all of our instinct to fight. I'm not a fighter. I run from dangerous situations. I feel it in my stomach when something bad might happen I just want to FLEE! I cant help it. Instinct. I wish it was the other way, but its not. I feel like I would be better off trying to get away than to try and fight, and maybe try and hide.
lmao. I'm doomed. I'd better not go anywhere alone. I could take all the self defense classes I want, but at the end of the day, I'm born to try and run and hide.
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I live alone; most of my neighbors know I live alone. There are a few older single sketchy men who live next to me.
My home has medico locks and my windows are newly installed security windows. One night, while I sleep, one of these men breaks into my house, attacks me, beats the hell out of me and rapes me. I never see it coming.
The gun in my nightstand is useless at this point.
Physically, I'm a very strong woman who can and will kick the shit out of anyone who threatens my well being. But in this case, I was sleeping and didn't see it coming.
These men see me mow my lawn in shorts and a bikini top, they sometimes can see into my yard when I swim in my pool. They also see me sit outside on a warm summer night with just my pj's on.
It must be my fault that they attacked and raped me.
From now on, I will hire a full time body guard to sit while I sleep. I mean, I should have know better to protect myself from the sick and evil scum of this world.
My home has medico locks and my windows are newly installed security windows. One night, while I sleep, one of these men breaks into my house, attacks me, beats the hell out of me and rapes me. I never see it coming.
The gun in my nightstand is useless at this point.
Physically, I'm a very strong woman who can and will kick the shit out of anyone who threatens my well being. But in this case, I was sleeping and didn't see it coming.
These men see me mow my lawn in shorts and a bikini top, they sometimes can see into my yard when I swim in my pool. They also see me sit outside on a warm summer night with just my pj's on.
It must be my fault that they attacked and raped me.
From now on, I will hire a full time body guard to sit while I sleep. I mean, I should have know better to protect myself from the sick and evil scum of this world.
I am too angry to reply here. But subs and BM said what I'd want to.
I think my real problem with this thread isn't the content but the obvious intent of the starter to, as GG said, stir shit. Trust me, real rape victims carry enough guilt. This is a completely useless thread, absolutely nothing good can come from it.
I think my real problem with this thread isn't the content but the obvious intent of the starter to, as GG said, stir shit. Trust me, real rape victims carry enough guilt. This is a completely useless thread, absolutely nothing good can come from it.
BIKINIMOM said:
I was attacked, and I responded. You jump to a lot of conclusions, assume pepper spray wont stop someone and it would get them hurt worse, and that fighting back would get someone killed. Now that we're 10 degrees from the initial situation, it's not hard to see what you're saying.
Jumping back to reality, the idea would be not to get yourself in that situation in the first place. If a girl was walking alone, I think she would have her pepper spray out with her keys, since most defense sprays I've seen have key ring attachments. I would guess, the few seconds being keen to your surrounding would buy you could/would be the difference in a successful assault and going home with a black eye and nothing else.
To address the way you portray my argument: Regardless of how the situation occurs, if the girl doesn't take every precaution possible to prevent it from happening or defend herself when it does, then she's increasing her chances of it happening and I think that's poor... one can only hope she has the chance to better prepare herself in the future.
I think (and statistics show) people having CCWs helps them more than hurts them. I'm in the process of getting mine right now. If someone was trying to harm you, and you were carrying a handgun, then use it. If someone assaults you, they have to deal with how you respond.
Oh...and I do agree with BMs post about doing things to stay safer. I do agree that reckless behavior and lack of awareness is a real problem. I do not believe any of these things have merit in placing "responsibility."
I carry mace with me when I walk alone to my car after dark from work, but I honestly doubt I'd have the instinct to use it when I've never had a violent impulse in my life.
I carry mace with me when I walk alone to my car after dark from work, but I honestly doubt I'd have the instinct to use it when I've never had a violent impulse in my life.
Again, I'll reiterate that I dont think violent crime is always preventable. The reason my parents have dogs that roam free outside is to alert them if people or animals are coming... I'd hope that would give me enough time to grab the gun in the nightstand or behind the door. If it doesnt, or they get past the dogs, then welp I guess I hope I can fight well enough to survive. The whole point is practical ideas and applications to try and prevent the situation from happening are both good ideas and IMO a responsibility.blueta2 said:
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nefertiti said:
Did you say the same when BM made a similar thread? Are we now qualified to make judgments based on assumptions?
Maybe I looked at it differently, but the original question in the thread seemed to be a valid one to me. From what I have read here, a few people came in here and twisted things around and made extremely immature inferences and comments.
Bottom line with ANY type of assault (towards men or women) - there are two scenarios. One involves 100% random, totally unavoidable situations (i.e. random woman/man walking thru the park gets jumped). The other involves lack of awareness, maturity and sense of responsibility.
For ANYONE to come on here and categorize all assaults as totally random and label those victims free of all responsibility is just plain sad and irresponsible.
I know several women who have been jumped, robbed and a few who have been raped. I know a lot of men who have been jumped, robbed and shot at / stabbed. I'd say 80% of the time there was a lapse in judgment or awareness (twice in my personal case as well). The other 20% were unavoidable and random.
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juiceddreadlocks said:
No one knows how they will react in any given situation until it happens.
Did you read Blue's story? She seemed to be VERY WELLPREPARED... in the end, what did that net her?
We should all be prepared and try our best to stay out of situations that "might" pose a threat or that will "most likely" pose a threat but when the day is done, there are ALWAYS situations where all the Monday morning quarterbacking in the world won't do a damned bit of good... what was done, was done.
To blame the victim is just as harmfull as it is to do nothing to prosecute the offender - if not worse as it makes the victim feel victimized all over again and keeps others who are just victims waiting to be assaulted SILENT AND ASHAMED.
So far 5 women have responded to this thread. Of those 5, 3 have been raped... LOOK AT THAT STATISTIC... OPEN YOUR EYES GENTLEMEN.
Interesting that WE were not too "ashamed to air our dirty laundry to gain the attention and sympathy from a bunch of juiceheads on an internet chatboard."
.... or is it that WE are SURVIVORS who are NOT ASHAMED to speak out against violence in an attempt to educate our fellow human beings?!
One can look at the same situation with totally opposing points of view.
Don't know bout the rest of you, but I choose the vantage point of HUMANITY.
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juiceddreadlocks said:
There are a many things men and women can do to prevent violence.
But living in fear over whether or not it's going to happen, already makes you a victim.
I do not own a gun, nor will I ever. I've never been attacked (my story was to make a point), nor have I ever been in a threatening position.
I lock my car doors when I drive, I lock my doors and windows when I sleep and when I walk at night alone, I take my cell.
I have never taken a self defense course nor will I ever.
All I can do it think smart and be smart enough to know where to go and where not to go. If I make one false move and go into a dark parking lot and get attacked, it's still not my fault. It will NEVER be my fault.
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KillahBee said:
Hmmmmm
I was 9 the first time I was molested. I actually went and told my mother. Being the old-schooler she was, SHE BLAMED ME. She didn't do a damned thing to protect my little sister. Lucky for my little sister that NINE YEAR OLD ME knew enough to yell at her to get away from that dirty old disgusting filthy animal before "he was going to teach her how to swim too." My sister was only 6. Tell me, why did a NINE YEAR OLD have to defend her SIX YEAR OLD SISTER?
I was 12 the second time. This time I kept my mouth shut as there was no one to tell. I told my sister to stay the hell away from such and such or I would whoop her behind and that was that. If your own mother won't defend you for her ignorance, then WHO THE FUCK will?
I was 14 (nearly 15) when I was raped. All three perps were people that were VERY close to me or the family.
So now... which percentage of ANY of these assaults were MY FAULT?
Now I am 40... though I have been beaten a few times (only one time was it random in a night club) I haven't been raped again... guess I either "got it out of my system earlier" or "I wised up"?
Any time someone violates another human being it is NEVER "the fault" of the victim. Yes, we should ALWAYS exercise good judgment, but at the end of the day (as clearly illustrated by my story and Blue's story) all the "good judgment" in the world ain't gonna make a damned bit of difference.
Can we please pull our heads out of the sand here?
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BIKINIMOM said:
Sorry I should have put at the end of my story that it was not an acutal event. Though all in that story was true minus the attack.
I live next to a bunch of perverted men who I have no doubt have thought about trying to attack me
In fact, one night, one of them was drunk and rang my bell.
He does renovation for me so I let him in. I only realized he was drunk when I let him in. He asked me if I wanted to go for dinner cause he was lonely.
I declined and asked him to leave my house.
He was pushing me backwards begging to take me out. For the first time in my life I thought I was going to be attacked.
He left after he saw I was pissed!
KillahBee said:
First of all, please see my following post. I agreed about doing things to make things safer. I never said it's always random, though you were probably directing that at another post.
second of all, you're right that I shouldn't have made assumptions or prejudged. he hit a sore spot, and I reacted in knee jerk fashion.
I am, in all honesty, too biased to really respond at all. it is completely impossible for me to be objective. But again, I agree with subs post. A girl who recklessly endangers herself is a moron, but a rapist should be strung up from a tree, skinned alive, and gagged with his own intestines. But what good can really come from a discussion started in the manner that he did? Believe me, rape victims carry enough blame themselves. Thirteen years later, I still struggle with it.
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blueta2 said:
It was clearly your fault because you answered your door. LOL
I just wish that people would understand how harmfull it is for EVERYONE if they apportion any of the blame to the victim. Shame is one of the biggest reasons why many crimes go unreported.
I will give a non-violent example. There is hundreds of millions of dollars in oil and gas fraud committed every single year and yet the perpetrators of these non-violent crimes go unpunished for decades, if at all ever. The BIGGEST REASON? The victims are ASHAMED to admit that they had been swindled, even to themselves!
So now, if a victim of a non-voilent crime is too ashamed to come forth and admit (even to themselves) that even though they were saavy and well-prepared (most that invest in oil and gas have been very successfull financially) they still fell victim to a criminal how do you think someone feels who has been physically violated?
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Even if I decided to walk down the street at 2 am wearing nothing but my bikini and screaming RAPE ME, no one has the right to rape or harm me.
The violent act is the responsiblity of the offender.
We can all take precautions to live safer, but because one doesn't take precautions does not make the attack their fault
The violent act is the responsiblity of the offender.
We can all take precautions to live safer, but because one doesn't take precautions does not make the attack their fault
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Moltke said:
Yes, you are correct about having common sense, but exercising common sense and sharing blame are not one in the same.
How many really stupid things did you do as a kid? How many stupid things did WE ALL do as kids. That doesn't mean that a woman getting raped because she accepted a drug laced drink from someone that she only *semi-knew* (as in the friend of a friend or maybe first/second date) is the equivalent of getting behind the wheel of a car while impaired. It could be argued that both could have been avoided had the people involved used common sense... right?
Or could it?
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Smurfy said:
You are correct in this scenario well, dependent on where you live.
My sister lives in a place where EVERYBODY pays their bills at the post office with CASH. Can you imagine once a month people go with WADS of cash to the local post office to pay mortgage, utility, insurance etc and everybody knows it, yet nobody is robbed? Oh yea, and if there is some sort of government assistance as in unemployment the mailman/lady delivers that shit in CASH?! EVERY MONTH, EVERYBODY KNOWS AND AND NOBODY ROBS THEM?!
Even my sister can't believe that, but she lives there and that is exactly how it is.
So now....
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pintoca said:
You know I didn't think of it like Blue... but she does have a valid point.
for sure, kids are gonna get a pass on account of their naiveity.BIKINIMOM said:
some sick fuck when i was young was trying to spit some molester game at me and my friends.
he was plying us with drink and tobacco, we were too naive to see his true intentions.
thankfully nothing happened...but you know the code, fair or unfair, their are certain things you avoid or you are accepting certain peril. like taking a drink from a complete stranger...all wimmen know about the risks, most won't accept it.
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Moltke said:
I hear you... but I didn't say TOTAL stranger. I said someone that she *semi-knew*. Because I tended bar for years I saw all the shit that goes on firsthand. Once I leave my drink, I don't care WHO is sitting there, I don't drink anymore. But I am also experienced and 40 years old. How many 23 year olds can say the same? "But he was my girlfriend's boyfriend's friend..."
See where I am going.
Bottom line is this, we could argue till we are blue in the face that will never change the fact that a victim is a victim - they were violated and THE ONLY place the blame belongs is with the perpetrator of the crime. PERIOD. This isn't saying that we aren't responsible for our own actions. This says that we are all MOST CERTAINLY RESPONSIBLE for our own actions. Nobody can "make some one" violate or take advantage of another human being regardless of how "easy" the situation may seem. I don't know about you but if a man were laying in the street passed out with his wallet open and wads of cash hanging out of it, I wouldn't take the money and run. I would call 911 and try to get the man help. See, that is ME being RESPONSIBLE for my own behavior.
The sooner society accepts this as a whole, the less the wrongdoers will be able to get away with this shit.
Someone in this thread needs to stop trying to save society.. not going to name any names..
Subz definately said it best 100% without a doubt agree with him.
Subz definately said it best 100% without a doubt agree with him.
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My avator says it all.. You do not need to agree w/ me for this is a free world. But as I have said before in this post NO ONE HAS A RIGHT TO VIOLATE SOMEONE ELSE JUST CUZ THEY ARE IN THE WRONG PLACE AT THE WRONG TIME!!
SMURFY "nobody deserves to be violated without provocation
neither does someone who is innocently going about their business"
Could not of said it better!!
SMURFY "nobody deserves to be violated without provocation
neither does someone who is innocently going about their business"
Could not of said it better!!
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nefertiti said:
I feel you pain... so do a lot of us.
Good thing you weren't trying to save society too, else Friendly Canadian might have lost respect for you. *sigh*
Don't let it get you down. There are LOTS of good people here... just sad that they are often drowned out by noise...
BIKINIMOM said:
anybody who gets injured is a victim, regardless of fault.
you walk into heavy traffic and get smeared by a dump truck, you are a victim. you smoke ciggarrettes for 50 yrs and get emphysema, you are a victim.
but their are certain things you can do to reduce the risk of being a victim.
such as not walking into traffic or not smoking, for examples
nefertiti said:
would be a sad day if you left nef! sad very sad day. =(
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FriendlyCanadian said:
I agree it would be VERY sad if women like her left, but they are leaving regardless.
And she "dared" to air her dirty laundry to a "bunch of juiceheads on a chatboard". (<--- not my words, but the words of way too many males here.)
Why do you think that is? Was it for sympathy or was she an attention whore?
Yea, she and Angel are both truly classless for sinking to SUCH levels of desperation to gain attention.
Truth of the matter is, that she is bright and articulate and can speak for herself, as did Angel... Angel was personally attacked when she VOLUNTEERED her painfull experience on this forum to "a bunch of stranger juiceheads on a chat forum".... And me, well I am just "trying to save the world" and according to you, I need to stop.
Not a snowball's chance in hell my friend. Not a snowball's chance in hell.
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How bout this?
We all accept personal responsibility in doing our best to NOT violate others while exercising a modicum of common sense and being aware of our surroundings and in the unfortunate event that others are harmed we extend them support, comfort and place the blame where it lies = with the perpetrator of the crime.
We all accept personal responsibility in doing our best to NOT violate others while exercising a modicum of common sense and being aware of our surroundings and in the unfortunate event that others are harmed we extend them support, comfort and place the blame where it lies = with the perpetrator of the crime.
BIKINIMOM said:I agree it would be VERY sad if women like her left, but they are leaving regardless.
And she "dared" to air her dirty laundry to a "bunch of juiceheads on a chatboard". (<--- not my words, but the words of way too many males here.)
Why do you think that is? Was it for sympathy or was she an attention whore?
Yea, she and Angel are both truly classless for sinking to SUCH levels of desperation to gain attention.
Truth of the matter is, that she is bright and articulate and can speak for herself, as did Angel... Angel was personally attacked when she VOLUNTEERED her painfull experience on this forum to "a bunch of stranger juiceheads on a chat forum".... And me, well I am just "trying to save the world" and according to you, I need to stop.
Not a snowball's chance in hell my friend. Not a snowball's chance in hell.
uh god.. you read way to far into things.. YOURE the one who claims to be saving society by putting this so out there.. I never once called you classless.. and I would never call nef or angel that either..
nef and angel are responding to a thread, where someone was saying something fairly abrasive against very personal subject matter to them and to you.. neither nef or angel STARTED a thread about it.. on how it's not funny.. because they are both articulate smart woman like you say.. and know that everyone know this.. I don't even want to get into this with you..
you can't have a civil debate with anyone, unless they entirely agree with you, then you can speak with them in a civil intellectual manner, people who disagree with you, always seem to be lacking humanity or reading skills, many many times I've stated this is my opinion and not the fact of god, I'm done having this arguement with you, which is why I didn't state your name in the first place, In hiend sight I shouldn't have said anything at all.
neither angel nor nef seemed to be going after attention.
so please don't think anything I said was in any response to anything they posted, it was simply a question to you, a question you couldn't really read or comprehend past all the "noise" i guess so speak.
before I go on to personally attack someone who is clearly unstable I'm just going to stop myself log off and go to school, have a nice day.
Its everyone's responsibility to take care of themselves, of course.
But you can only control your own actions - and all the insensitive people in this read...what goes around comes around. It will!! One of these days when you are old men trying to keep your wallet in your pocket ; you will understand what its like to be weak.
But you can only control your own actions - and all the insensitive people in this read...what goes around comes around. It will!! One of these days when you are old men trying to keep your wallet in your pocket ; you will understand what its like to be weak.
Let me be clear - I hate revealing my own experiences when talking about this kind of thing. the only reason I do is so that it is out there and known that I cannot speak objectively on the subject and I am admitting as much. I don't want attention, I don't want pity. As I said before....I knee jerked when I read the first post. Of course I did, how could I not? I tried in my second post to seperate from my gut emotional reaction, but I'm not sure how good of a job I did.
But anyway, no one said anything to me to make me feel like they were scorning my revelation. I just need a break because when i close the window on my computer an I'm still having an emotional reaction, it's a sign that I need some distance.
But anyway, no one said anything to me to make me feel like they were scorning my revelation. I just need a break because when i close the window on my computer an I'm still having an emotional reaction, it's a sign that I need some distance.
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FriendlyCanadian said:
Yup, you are noise... go on to school now and hopefully you will learn something.
Where was I uncivil?
The thread was filled with many examples of healthy debate. I didn't name call or talk smack personally about anyone. We were talking about an important topic. Yes it is VERY uncomfortable, but pretending it doesn't happen or that it only happens to other people or those that did something to deserve it - WONT MAKE IT STOP. So what is your issue specifically?
The sharing and exchange of intelligent experiences/thoughts/feelings WILL affect a change... and THAT is why I talk about it every single chance I get. If you don't like that then just put me on ignore. K?
Whether someone begins a thread about a topic or volunteers information on a thread begun by another - the end result is the same - NO ONE HAS TO SAY ANYTHING... all posts on the forums are totally voluntary.
So puh-lease for once and for all get off the "attention-whoring-train" because it is tiresome as it is ridiculous. Why does ANYONE post on an internet chat board if not for people to talk back?
You equated my sharing my personal information (which undoubtedly gives strength to countless others) to "airing dirty laundry". How is what MY dirty laundry different from Nef or Angel's dirty laundry?
Would it also shock you to know that every single day I get PM's, Knotes and emails from male and female board members alike saying that they can no longer tolerate posting or even reading elite because of the relentless wanton attacks on me? And encourage me to *keep on fighting*?
Dude, take your own advice and stop reading into things.
When I post unless I quote someone, I speak to EVERYONE so if that particular shoe don't fit, then don't freaking wear it.
Male Board Member A was the one who called me *classless* for "volunteering being raped on an internet chat board for attention".
Male Board Member B was the one who "implied" that I was making it up.
And you merely called it "dirty laundry."
... the whole "chatboard filled with juiceheads" have been said by MANY male posters. Personally, if I were you, I would take offense to that... but that is your choice. I can't tell you how to feel, only expressing my feelings.
Are you now satisfied?
You should be sufficiently embarrassed.
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manny78 said:
True that... lots of women running around beating and raping men.
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manny78 said:
In English please? Or Magyar, whichever is easiest for you.
I truly have no clue what you are trying to say.
blueta2
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FriendlyCanadian said:
Normally, I agree with your posts and know you're a rational dude, but this post is not very rational.
I think you've prejudged BM and believe she is all about her. NO where in this entire thread have I see her going after attention.
When I women is articulate and passionate about a subject, that does not make her an "attention whore" (God I hate that term)
When WOOT talks about his car, money, home, and babies, do you ever call him an attention whore? Do you tell him he makes threads all about him? Using woot b/c I know you two are friends.
And you know what.....I bet you a trillion $'s you would never ever ever call any of the men on this board "unstable" when in fact I've seen you debate with some very unstable people here and you would not refer to them as unstable.
Not cool!
Grumpy Old Man
Grumpy Old Biker Bastard
You are one smart lady....
blueta2 said:
Okay...I was raped at age 12. Pulled of the street and raped by two guys....was that my fault? Well let me tell you I have paid the price for something that I was not responsible for for 20 something yrs. It fucks with your head in more ways then you could ever imagine and your gonna tell me that it is my fault.....
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nefertiti said:
Exactly...
The fact is "equality" means that we are all of us human and are entitled to be treated with THE SAME respect and has nothing to do with our sex organs.
Rape is a crime of VIOLENCE. It is not a sex act. It is one of the most degrading and awfull ways to dehumanize someone. Not that a man is not capable of being raped by another man or by a woman if she is strong enough to hold him down and penetrate an orifice of his body with a foreign object. Studies even show that if a man is being raped by a woman he will get an erection so she could very well have intercourse with him against his will, however, she doesn't NEED a penis to dehumanize him. But the fact is that MOST MEN are far stronger than MOST WOMEN so they can and do rape and dehumanize on a much greater scale than the other way around. Has been this way since the beginning of time.
Either way it is one of THE WORST acts of violence that still leaves the survivor alive and I am terribly sorry if ANY board members thinks that it is EVER acceptable to joke about it or put ANY share of the responsibility onto the one that has been harmed.
That is my opinion and I am sorry, but I will not deviate from that. Until you have been treated like you are less than human you can not understand how this type of an act makes you feel, in some cases for the rest of your life. Doesn't matter how old you are, how hard you fought your attacker or if you just laid there and let them do it to you because your brain simply could not handle the reality of what was going on at the time.
Yes, I just laid there. Interestingly enough, I can't remember how I got there or how we left really... it was in the woods during the summer. But I do remember distinctly that he had to do it twice. And the verbage he used to justify his behavior was, "OK... so you got off the first time. Now it's my turn to get off."
This was a man who I trusted. Someone who it never EVER occured to me in a million years would do something like that to me. I was barely 15. So now, was it MY FAULT because I trusted him and believed that he was only showing me "the beauty of nature"? I mean, I was hardly a baby... right? Was it MY FAULT that I didn't struggle and scream for help, even though there was no one around for miles to hear me? Was it MY FAULT because I felt safe with him until he started pulling at my clothing but was too frozen to run away? Was it MY FAULT that I never told anybody because my mother didn't do fuckall when I told her that I was freaking molested when I was 9?
Please enlighten me... what part of ANY OF IT WAS MY FAULT?
Am I making the picture clearer for those who may not have understood before... or is this just "too much dirty laundry" for some folks to handle?
blueta2 said:
no where in my post does it say she is an attention whore, though perhaps that was what I was insuating, I say unstable in the most loving way.. being that she is a woman who cries every day or did recently based on one of her threads.. meaning I think she should get professional help because I've been there.. that wasn't meant in an offense way though I'm sure it was taking it.
To BM - no I'm not embarassed at all, in the least way possible, I thought you were being uncivil and unreasonable in the thread that started this thread, your thread, you said I was lacking in humanity because of my logical and rational comments and my question, again my opinion.
well if you bet me a trillion dollars, I'd be a trillion dollars richer, I'm pretty sure YW and YG are both males. =)
also I call them much more insulting things then unstable, I said that based on a logical conclusion I've drawn, not in anyway trying to harm or offend, shit when I was that depressed I wouldn't have considered myself stable.
again these are just my opinions and in no way meant to offend anyone, though clearly they have, I usually try to stay out of these things for as long as possible, but something in the back of my head clearly nags me into getting myself dragged into this crap, I'll try harder in the future to just stay away and not post on this kind of subject matter.
yours truly, FC
PS I don't think anyone who got raped got raped deservingly and it was their fault, I think the rapers should be strung from a tree.. by their tongues.. and probably have their testicles and johnson removed.
I'm done, I can't be apart of this anymore.. good day.
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Gymgurl said:
Shameless attention whore, just airing out your dirty laundry for all the juiceheads on an internet discussion board.
PPPPPPffffffffffffffffffffftttttttt
Gymgurl and all the rest of you women, perhaps if you will speak out more perhaps more young men and women with closed minds MIGHT just gain understanding.
I respect everyone's need for privacy but every time I speak out I feel LIBERATED, like that animal isn't getting away with it for what he did to me because I am NOT AFRAID to expose HIS DIRT. I know that not everyone is me... and what is good for me may not be good for anyone else.
But for those of you who question my motives, I say SHAME ON YOU for trying to silence me.
If I did not let that pisspoorpatheticpieceofshitexcusefor a human being kill my spirit - you really think YOU can?
As if....
No one things rape is funny.. everyone knows that.. it's not a funny subject..
it's very serious and very bad..
it's very serious and very bad..
Gymgurl said:
I agree, and also think it is a bad subject to be on this board.. which is all I was ever trying to say..
amazing how you did that in a sentance.. I have much to learn.. =/
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FriendlyCanadian said:
Sir... MANY "MEN" on elite oke about it all the time. I won't name names because that is irrelevant.
You question why I post up on a board where "nobody cares." The truth is that just because YOU don't care (which doesn't make you less human, you have your own life with very real struggles) doesn't mitigate MY RIGHT to post up for those who MIGHT.
The fact that there are a few ASSHOLES that joke about this shit all the freaking time also does not diminish MY RIGHT to post up about an issue that I am passionate over.
I say to you as I say to everyone: if my posts bore you then just ignore them. There are hundreds of threads on elite that I never click on. Can't you do the same?
It is really that simple.
This thread had NOTHING to do with my thread yesterday that I DID put up for the board's attention. Why did I put up that thread? BECAUSE TO ME IT WAS IMPORTANT.
Do I claim to know this thread's originator's intentions. Not really, but a few of the other board members were made uneasy nonetheless.
I have no quarrel with you. You are free to post on elite as I am also free. You are entitled to your opinions as I am entitled to mine. As long as I don't see you posting stuff that is offensive and propogates hate - we are cool. Just as I would assume you feel towards me. Right?
If you don't believe that my posting on elite affects ANYONE in a positive fashion, you are very wrong. Just because you do not glean a positive effect, though that saddens me to some extent, do not assume you speak for everyone. I am old enough to know that everybody don't like me and I am waaaaaaay cool with it.
The day that the negative outweighs the positive on elite is the day I leave and ya'll won't have to worry. I won't let the door hit me in the ass on the way out.
And as for me being "unstable" - my children were stolen and given to their abuser, how am I supposed to be? What drug will cure that? How much therapy will change the situation?
I am an individual of INCREDIBLE mental strength, make no mistake about that.
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Gymgurl said:
I disagree GG with all due respect.
I think this thread was EXCELLENT... I truly believe it raised awareness. Keeping silent and sweeping it under the rug is a sure fire way to keep society's dark and incorrect perceptions intact.
I believe that young men especially need to understand better, might save them from making a mistake one night when there is a girl that has "cock-teased them" to the point of being nekkid then suddenly changes her mind. How many of you men have been there? There are so many aspects of this that should be discussed openly, passionately, but without personal insult. I know that is a tall order, but I do have faith in the board as a whole.
No victims on this thread ma'am... only survivors.
Gymgurl said:
This is why I said nothing good could come from this thread. Talking about who bares what responsibility goes against the grain of what some of us had to fight our whole lives to make ourselves believe. Even those who place themselves in danger recklessly - they pay the price and then punish themselves over and over and over again for years. That's why, KB, you hear that "It's not their fault, no matter what" so loudly. No person who wasn't in GG's body, both during the attack and in the years afterward, has a right to say a damn thing to her about her lapses in judgement. It accomplishes nothing but to reinforce the overwhelming sense of guilt and self blame that's already in place, even in the most blameless of circumstances.
Therein lies the difference between rape and other forms of assault. The levels of guilt and self punishment are something you simply cannot understand unless you've been there. You get mugged and you think...man, I was a dumbass for being in X neighborhood at X time, and then eventually you let it go. You get raped and you think, "I'm scum, I'm used, I'm dirty, I brought this on myself. I should have yelled louder, I should have fought back harder, I shouldn't have been where I was, I shouldn't have looked at him like that, etc etc etc" and the thoughts go on....and on....and on....and on....they haunt you at nights, they pop up every time you have a normal interaction with someone...when I was in HS I used to be in the bathroom hyperventilating in sheer panic any time a guy showed even the slightest interest in me.
I'd say I've worked through every way it negatively affected my life, my personality, my ability to enjoy intimacy on an emotional and physical level. But I still look back sometimes and think "I shouldn't have been so careless to sprain my ankle," (long story, but that led to the circumstances) "He wouldn't have targeted me if I hadn't had a crush on him," "I should have....I wish I had, It wouldn't have happened if I hadn't..." I'm clearly not going to respond well, and neither will angel or GG, to someone who can't begin to understand what it's like the carry that burden of blame, starting a thread about whether we share any responsibility for the things that happen to us.
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nefertiti said:
WERD... I still can't get the filth off... I am 40. And now I watch my daughters suffer, constantly put in harm's way - my inability to defend and guide them... God, when I heard about my oldest, so much washed over me... I couldn't stand to let my husband touch me for 2 weeks. I was 14 again and I was my daughter... All I can do is not think about it.
And then I log onto elite for some shits and giggles, maybe some information, comeradery, way to pass the time and I have to see mindless jokes about things that aren't even REMOTELY funny. True, I may be overly sensitive but for God's sake how ANYONE can find rape to be funny or to hold ANY rape survivor with ANY RESPONSIBILITY befuddles me.
I just wish that some of the board members would *get it* already.
I just hope that maybe in some small way that by reading my experiences others might become more sensitive. If that makes me a bad person, then I raise my hand *guilty as charged*.
lets see if you like this better...blueta2 said:
if i jump into the tiger exhibit at the zoo, and i get tored and mauled up, the tiger did it, but i was still an idiot.
people are animals, rapists are filthy animals, put two and two together...
there are obviously alot of fucked up situations that cant really be helped by the victim, but there are many more where they coulda/shoulda been safer and more RESPONSIBLE FOR THEMSELVES.
not to mention countless of women who falsely accuse men for whatever reason, who bastardize the accusations of women who truely are victims.
but you are far too emotional about the subject to rationally address the various arguements, which is why these threads are annoying
SublimeZM said:
I really dont know what I would do. I've never been raped before. I even hate saying that word knowing that some girls reading this probably hate seeing the word in print. (i would). I know my instinct is to run, so hopefully if it ever DOES happen, I will be able to fight back, but seriously, even if I did , I doubt it would help if the man is over 200 lbs. Thats almost twice my bodyweight.
i feel like you are telling men as a whole to accept resonsability and not violate people. but thats bullshit.BIKINIMOM said:
never will i ever physically violate another person (female especially).
nobody in this thread thinks any rapist deserves anything less than a lynching, but some of us are trying to get the point accross that some rape/assault victims put themselves in dangerous situations that lead to their assaults.
another analgy:
i dont walk around southeast DC at night, because im a whiteboy and would probably get robbed. if someone robs me, its not my "fault", but i was still stupid to put myself in such an unsafe situation when i really didnt have to at all.
you never have to because when a guy on EF says something idiotic we all call them out and bust their balls about it, (ex: the SWV threads), but when a woman says something idiotic, we are all expected to dance around their poor easily hurt femanine feelings, otherwise we are women hating assholes....blueta2 said:
KillahBee
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you have already admitted that you cannot speak without prejudice or emotional clouding on this, so your points are moot (sp?).nefertiti said:
it's amazing how all of you completely distort things to suit your personal gains. I said this, plain and simple - sometimes it's random, sometimes it's not. "it's" being assaults (in all forms).
Don't you fucking DARE try to take that our of context and paint a false picture, any of you. You have no FUCKING clue what I (or others) have been thru. You have no FUCKING clue what I (or others) have experienced, thus giving us the "ability" to comment on such situations.
it is plain ignorant to generalize like you guys are. NOBODY is saying "all raped/assaulted people (I realize that most of you have ZERO respect for men and what we go thru in life cause we make the mistake of dealing with it and not using it as a crutch) are at fault". It's disgusting, selfish and irresponsible for you to do so.
But your ignorant (not you personally, nefer) generalizations are disgusting. I know 2 women who have been raped and ADMITTED to me that they willfully put themselves in that situation. Then cried later b/c they knew how to exploit the system. I also know one who was raped by her father and one raped by random fucking scumbags who were at ZERO fault for these tragedies.
You fucking people with your one way minds are the biggest detriment to progress in this society.
What is just DISGUSTING is that most of you will take this post and CHOOSE to see this: "women ask to be raped" and THAT is a much bigger issue than assault in general.
Fucking disgust me. All of you. Learn to respect others in the TRUE nature of respect. Fake pieces of dog shit.
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