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Is EQ and D'bol the same molocule except for D'bol being 17-aa?
- Thread starter athlete03
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sk* said:This thread is confusing me, how would you be able to make it 17-aa? I don't know much about chemistry.
Would you be able to make test 17-aa or perhaps fina? And that would make it stronger?
test c-17 alkylated = methyltest. Yes bro there also is a c-17 alkylated fina also and it's toxic as hell and not on the black market im pretty sure. I read that it's so toxic they give it in mcg rather than mg.
F
Frackal
Guest
That is so weird, they are at totally oppostite ends of the effects spectrum..someone explain this.
While on paper, the addition of a methyl group to c17 doesn't look like it makes that much of a difference, it does, geometrically.
This addition changes the shape of the molecule such that it alters many of it's biological effects..
As far as binding to different receptors, there is only one (that we know of) androgen receptor. The alkylation probably changes it's affinity for this receptor as well as other biological targets (that are not so well known).
Andy
This addition changes the shape of the molecule such that it alters many of it's biological effects..
As far as binding to different receptors, there is only one (that we know of) androgen receptor. The alkylation probably changes it's affinity for this receptor as well as other biological targets (that are not so well known).
Andy
Its too bad extensive research does not go into making muscle enhancers such as sterooids/gh/ and the myostatin gene. Imagine some of the drugs that would be available if this research wsa still gov. funded. I read an article inMuscle monthly and it discussed several steroid compounds that were developed but never made it to production. Here is an excert
4-CHLORO-11-KEOT-17 ALPHA-METHYL-TESTERONE
"This is a steroid developed by the Germans. There has top be something wrong with the numbers in this research because this purportedly has an A/A ratio of something like 121! tHE SPECIFIC NUMBERS SAY THAT IT HAS AN ANABOLIC ACTIVITY 7.3 times that of d-bol while maintaining a seminol vesicle androgenic reading of .06 times that of d-bol. Gives a graphical view of the structure.
2-OXA-17-BETA-ACETOXY-ESTRA-4,9, 11-TRIEN-3-ONE
"You steroid chemists out there will notice that this odd steroid is a sort of hybrid between trebolone acetate and anavar. The result is that it shares the same low A/A ratio of anndroloen while being 5 times as potent. This one is probably very expensive to manufacture though"
4-CHLORO-11-KEOT-17 ALPHA-METHYL-TESTERONE
"This is a steroid developed by the Germans. There has top be something wrong with the numbers in this research because this purportedly has an A/A ratio of something like 121! tHE SPECIFIC NUMBERS SAY THAT IT HAS AN ANABOLIC ACTIVITY 7.3 times that of d-bol while maintaining a seminol vesicle androgenic reading of .06 times that of d-bol. Gives a graphical view of the structure.
2-OXA-17-BETA-ACETOXY-ESTRA-4,9, 11-TRIEN-3-ONE
"You steroid chemists out there will notice that this odd steroid is a sort of hybrid between trebolone acetate and anavar. The result is that it shares the same low A/A ratio of anndroloen while being 5 times as potent. This one is probably very expensive to manufacture though"
IronKop77 said:
Does that mag give references for these studies?
There are reasons why these AAS (and others) never hit the market... (It would help if I could read the whole study).. Perhaps they failed subsequent 'human' tests needed to assure the safety of the drugs. Or, as mentioned, the high cost of production. The AAS we know and love have methods of industrial scale production that makes the compounds with the highest pharmacological value economically feasible (this is Serge's department). Unfortunately, like you said, there isn't enough of demand of these types of drugs for companies to pay chemical engineers to find ways to scale up the synthesis..
Andy
sk* said:This thread is confusing me, how would you be able to make it 17-aa? I don't know much about chemistry.
Would you be able to make test 17-aa or perhaps fina? And that would make it stronger?
Its easy to alkylate things. They usually attach a chlorine or bromine to the position and undergo an SN2 reaction to substitute it for a methyl group (just organic chem)
I would assume that fina etc have been triedi n oral form. Remember when they made synthetic androgens they tried 1000's of different compounds to see what would work. My guess is that a 17 aa version of fina just wasnt that great ...
NFG
justwannagetsum
New member
EQ and dbol taken together is not a mistake. Many steroids are ver similar except for a few atoms on the molecule . another example is proviron and primo. The have even more in common (empirically speaking)then dbol and EQ being that proviron has 2 additional hydrogens . There actions are also obviously much different. Like ANDY13 said, it also changes the shape of the molecule in 3D. also if you demthylate testosterone on a specific carbon you get nandrolone, again very different.
NFG123 said:
From my (independent) study of organic.. I can't seem to recall a way to make carbon-carbon bonds by sn2 displacement.. Can you? It seems that you would need some carbanion-type of nucleophille such as cyanide.. But there is more to it that just that.. However, in order to get the halogen on there in the first place, you would need to have some kind of stereo-selective halogenation.. And halogenation of an alkane would (i think) be difficult to do.
I imagine steroid chemistry can get pretty complex as far as multiple steps, protective groups, and low yields.
lawnsaver
New member
sk* said:Also wouldn't that mean that running EQ and DBOL together wouldn't be such a good idea since they hug the same receptors?
We dont have EQ and D-bol receptors! We have androgen receptors which are there for most all gear to attach to. I think winny and a few other dont use the androgen receptors, or if they do they use it in a different way.
Re: Re: Is EQ and D'bol the same molocule except for D'bol being 17-aa?
No.. Just like the c-17 CH3 changes the affinity for the AR, it also changes the affinity for other enzymes and receptors. Everything from half-life to sides, to AR affinity can be changed by this slight modification.
mvmaxx said:
No.. Just like the c-17 CH3 changes the affinity for the AR, it also changes the affinity for other enzymes and receptors. Everything from half-life to sides, to AR affinity can be changed by this slight modification.
Re: Re: Is EQ and D'bol the same molocule except for D'bol being 17-aa?
No.. Just like the c-17 CH3 changes the affinity for the AR, it also changes the affinity for other enzymes and receptors. Everything from half-life to sides, to AR affinity can be changed by this slight modification.
There was an interesting idea on another board brought up by Seth Roberts.. He believes that EQ and dbol are the same-- The same changes on biological effect I stated still occur, however, he believes that they're more of the same than some think..
How does he explain the different "perceived" effect from the two? 1) it's partially psychological (I tend to agree that this effect is HUGE in bbing. 2) He believes that the blood levels of dbol cannot be made to mimick the long ester of EQ.. Especially the way guys take dbol "two in the am, two before the workout."
We've already drawn conclusions about sides and their relation to blood concentrations... Who knows.. He makes some good points..
Andy
mvmaxx said:
No.. Just like the c-17 CH3 changes the affinity for the AR, it also changes the affinity for other enzymes and receptors. Everything from half-life to sides, to AR affinity can be changed by this slight modification.
There was an interesting idea on another board brought up by Seth Roberts.. He believes that EQ and dbol are the same-- The same changes on biological effect I stated still occur, however, he believes that they're more of the same than some think..
How does he explain the different "perceived" effect from the two? 1) it's partially psychological (I tend to agree that this effect is HUGE in bbing. 2) He believes that the blood levels of dbol cannot be made to mimick the long ester of EQ.. Especially the way guys take dbol "two in the am, two before the workout."
We've already drawn conclusions about sides and their relation to blood concentrations... Who knows.. He makes some good points..
Andy
Zyglamail said:
While we're at it, here's cocain. You can appreciate the complexity of the molecule. It's streamline aromatic ester linkage, it's chic bi-cyclo moiety, and it's shear dynamic shape make cocain a true work of art, molecularly sleak, yet devilishly rodust.. The final ester linkage gives cocain the distinguished feature that make it suitable for all seasons.
Last edited:
justwannagetsum
New member
While we're at it, here's cocain
Too bad you cant esterify cocaine and make it active for weeks at a time ................
Too bad you cant esterify cocaine and make it active for weeks at a time ................
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