Is College Worth It?

[Golfer18--old]

This is my second semester. I did extremely well my first semster. I am sitting here with about 75 math problems in front of me. I know if you want to make money you almost have to go to college. But i keep wondering if i will EVER use this again. I plan on trying to be a NAVY S.E.A.L. when i get out. I dunno, seems like i study things that will never come into play in my life. aven't told my Mom or Dad about the S.E.A.L. thing, I guess they wil find out in a few years. Im not the person to sit behind a desk from nine to five. My parents are big on school, so theyre in for the schock of their lifetime.


Like you guys at work are doing Trig or Calc.

 

[TheGame2001]

...

YOu seem to hate me bro but heres some advice. If you want to make big money nowadays you have to sell something. Sales=Money

Professions you get from college unless your talking doctor or lawyer ain't gonna make you rich.

Outgoing personality is much more important. Sales, gotta sell something to make money.

 

[Golfer18--old]

Re: ...

YOu seem to hate me bro but heres some advice. If you want to make big money nowadays you have to sell something. Sales=Money

Professions you get from college unless your talking doctor or lawyer ain't gonna make you rich.

Outgoing personality is much more important. Sales, gotta sell something to make money.

WTF!! Why do you keep saying that????

I dont understand why you think i hate you. Im not playing Dumb, i really DO NOT know why?


Whats up?

 

[gorilla_boy]

Re: ...

YOu seem to hate me bro but heres some advice. If you want to make big money nowadays you have to sell something. Sales=Money

Professions you get from college unless your talking doctor or lawyer ain't gonna make you rich.

Outgoing personality is much more important. Sales, gotta sell something to make money.

I have to agree.

Sales is either the easiest, lowest paying job or the hardest, highest paying job you will ever have.

 

[WODIN]

I can add!

 

[TheGame2001]

...

Then disregard my statement golfer.
In my opinion college is not necessary. I graduated but don't think it helped me one bit.

 

[Golfer18--old]

The only thing i have learned is:

College has a lot of right winged bastards

Its the same as High School w/o the bullshit

And i tweaked my skills on getting more ass

Everyone is their for their own particular reason

 

[gymtime]

I will assume your parents are paying for your education. That in itself makes you one of the luckiest people in the world. There are millions that would kill to be in your position. If you leave now, while you're doing well no less, you will likely regret it for the rest of your life.

Will you use the math? Probably not per se. But, when you go to the gym, do you ever wonder, "when will I ever need to bench press outside of this gym?" No. You go to the gym to train your body, you go to school to train your mind.

Get your degree. It may not be as valuable as it once was. But, I guarantee you, it will open doors for you that would never open otherwise. It will also make you a more well-rounded person in ways that won't make any sense to you now. Dude, finish school.

 

[velvett]

This is my second semester. I did extremely well my first semster. I am sitting here with about 75 math problems in front of me. I know if you want to make money you almost have to go to college. But i keep wondering if i will EVER use this again. I plan on trying to be a NAVY S.E.A.L. when i get out. I dunno, seems like i study things that will never come into play in my life. aven't told my Mom or Dad about the S.E.A.L. thing, I guess they wil find out in a few years. Im not the person to sit behind a desk from nine to five. My parents are big on school, so theyre in for the schock of their lifetime.


Like you guys at work are doing Trig or Calc.

I hated school.
Believe me, I did all my work and dragged myself a little as possible without failing to class.

BUT.


College is also a social experience that will help you grow as a person. While on the other hand, I also believe the military is a social experience of equal or greater value.

Life is also about having something to fall back on because well, you really can never tell what direction your life could take. You may have control over your choices but you may not always have control over the outcome.

Do both.

Finish school.
Become a Navy Seal.

In that time period you may just learn about who you are, who you want to be and you will still meet your parents expectations as well as your own expectations.

GOOD LUCK.


You know what, I use algebra near daily but if you tell any of my tortured math teachers I WILL NEVER live that down.

Ironic.

 

[WODIN]

Dear God I just figured out long division!!!!

 

[Golfer18--old]

I will assume your parents are paying for your education. That in itself makes you one of the luckiest people in the world. There are millions that would kill to be in your position. If you leave now, while you're doing well no less, you will likely regret it for the rest of your life.

Will you use the math? Probably not per se. But, when you go to the gym, do you ever wonder, "when will I ever need to bench press outside of this gym?" No. You go to the gym to train your body, you go to school to train your mind.

Get your degree. It may not be as valuable as it once was. But, I guarantee you, it will open doors for you that would never open otherwise. It will also make you a more well-rounded person in ways that won't make any sense to you now. Dude, finish school.

Damn that was a good post. I never intended on quiting, NEVER. My parents pay for my school. I am very thankful also. Just seems pointless taking pre req. classes. Yesterday my teacher talked about a atlast for an hour and 15 minutes. I guess when i get into my major classes that will change.

 

[Golfer18--old]

Dear God I just figured out long division!!!!

PM if you need some help. Have you learned to borrow yet?


j/j

 

[gymtime]

Damn that was a good post. I never intended on quiting, NEVER. My parents pay for my school. I am very thankful also. Just seems pointless taking pre req. classes. Yesterday my teacher talked about a atlast for an hour and 15 minutes. I guess when i get into my major classes that will change.

We all went through that. Very few classes will be particularly interesting to you. You can't look at it like, "when the hell am I ever gonna use geometry?" You have to keep the big picture in mind. You don't go to college to retain everything you're taught. No one does. But when you come out, you're a better thinker. You have problem-solving and analytical skills that you don't even know are there because it just seems like a four-year headache to you now. Trust me man. It will be worth it. Any butt fuck can do sales. You have an incredible opportunity. Don't waste it.

 

[WODIN]

PM if you need some help. Have you learned to borrow yet?
j/j

No. Can I have your car. See I am no good at asking for a loaner!!! damn...

 

[the nature boy]

college is necessary, more often than not you'll be judged on whether you have a college diploma or not. sure it's a piece of paper, but it also represents four or five years of education and four or five years of social interaction with your peers.


Suck it up, everyone who's graduated college has had to go through some lame shit. But as of now a high school diploma doesn't mean shit. The odds of finding a job with a starting salary of 40 to 50 K out of high school are slim to none, and slim is out to lunch.

 

[huntmaster]

I just finished college in December and am yet to find a full time job that suits me. Having said that ---- I bet most people think that I am bitter. I am not.

I know that getting my degree was something that I needed to do. I grew up roofing with my father and he always told me I better go to school and to not end up like him. Well, he is a great man. But I dont want to be a roofer for the rest of my life--thats for sure.

I know something is about to open up--if it doesnt I will be a football coach by fall.

Stay in School Golfer---and enjoy it while you are there.

HM

 

[spentagn]

The only thing i have learned is:

College has a lot of right winged bastards

What college do you go to?

 

[the nature boy]

Stay in School Golfer---and enjoy it while you are there.

HM

no shit. college is fun as hell. That's why I want to go to grad school just so I can do it all over again.

 

[Warik]

Don't get me started on college.

-Warik

 

[Citruscide]

The only thing i have learned is:

College has a lot of right winged bastards

Its the same as High School w/o the bullshit

And i tweaked my skills on getting more ass

Everyone is their for their own particular reason

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa.... easy trigger.

Maybe this is your personal experience, but look at me? I have a BA and a JD... you don't see me looking down on othre people... In fact, I hate others who do that.

Navy Seal? You do realize that only 1 out of 50 applicants makes it in... you have to have guts and desire, and I don't mean that loosely... I don't know you well Golfer, you seem like your head is on straight...

My best suggestion to you is... if you want to try to be a navy seal... do it. Go through the military... after 4 years or so... you'll have the option of going to college if you want, and they will pay for it. If you are dead set on being in the military, that is the way to go.

College is NOTHING like High School. You don't go for 8 hours a day, you don't have to show up to class, you really don't have to listen to your teacher... you are much more independant in college... it was a great social and learning experience for me and I wouldn't trade it for the world.

I have used Trig/Calculus in my life since high school/college... rarely, but it is nice in trival pursuit when a science question comes up and they ask you to find out when a ball will hit the ground when dropped from a certain height...

C

 

[Warik]

Remember when you were in Elementary school and the teacher always yelled at you and you kept quiet and behaved? Don't you get that feeling now telling you: "Damn... I should have talked back and defended myself. She can't do shit to me and I know I'm right. I wish I didn't waste my time and eat shit."

The real world = now.
College = Elementary school.

Just wait and see.

It's a known fact - everyone who went to college tells you it's a waste, everyone who DIDN'T go to college tells you its a necessity.

Why am I going? Cause it's free (and no, my parents aren't paying for it) and because I should be done by 2003. Otherwise I would have told my school and my professors who somehow are qualified to teach Computer Science, yet teach instead of work in the real world, to fuck off.

-Warik

 

[Citruscide]

I went to college on a full ride athletic scholarship... but I would have went regardless if I had that or not... I consider myself a smart person... and I love the area of Law... and well, I just couldn't do what I wanted to do without college and law school

Do I regret it... HELL NO. Would I do it over... HELL YEAH. Do I think I've learned more having gone to college? FUCK YES. I can count many things I have learned that I wouldn't have known if i didn't attend.

Don't listen to anyone but yourself Golfer... if you don't want to go... don't go. If you do, then go. Fuck it... You live your life... others don't live it for you.

C

 

[TheProject]

Remember when you were in Elementary school and the teacher always yelled at you and you kept quiet and behaved? Don't you get that feeling now telling you: "Damn... I should have talked back and defended myself. She can't do shit to me and I know I'm right. I wish I didn't waste my time and eat shit."

The real world = now.
College = Elementary school.

Just wait and see.

It's a known fact - everyone who went to college tells you it's a waste, everyone who DIDN'T go to college tells you its a necessity.

Why am I going? Cause it's free (and no, my parents aren't paying for it) and because I should be done by 2003. Otherwise I would have told my school and my professors who somehow are qualified to teach Computer Science, yet teach instead of work in the real world, to fuck off.

-Warik

Warik, I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. I have been to college, still have yet to finish, and I wouldn't call it a waste.

Some classes you will never use in the real world, some you will, but it's all part of the package as a whole. The real reason that college is valuable is because of that piece of paper. That alone is required to get you in the door at some companies, particularly with the job market the way it is right now.

And I've had comp sci teachers who worked in the real world, and taught part-time. They were the best teachers, IMHO, because they knew when to stop pushing the theory and when to tell us how things really worked. Some people would just much rather teach comp sci than work in the field. Much less stress, I'd bet.

 

[BuggyWhips]

What you put into college is hat you get out of it. If you party all the time, never study and get through by the skin of your teeth, then you'll prbably learn nothing and think of it as a over extended over priced summer camp. If you do the work , you not only learn the material they teach you but you learn to look at and interpret things rather than looking at a book practicing memmorization. If anything college teaches a person how to think in different ways from what we were used to in Highschool. By the time you reach colege you have skils to come to your own conclusions about things and not have to sit there and just absorb information like we did in high school. It reqires alot more personal thinking which is one of the reasons why we dont sit i a classroom for 8hr/day 5 days/week. Your brian begins to take information and teach itself. The purpose of the professors is to just provide information and give direction to you to get the ball rolling. By the end of the 4 years you become cultured, enlightened and learn alot more about the real world than you thought.
Im going into my last semester of school and even though I had to take alot of BS classes I did learn alot through them, mainly because they were on topics I never cared for before and I knew nothing about.

A friend of mine who s my age spent the last 4 years taking all crap classes. I have no idea if she knew they wouldt count toward anything but in reality where she has 131 credits, she technically has 24 real useable credits and a whole lot of wasted time. As long as you have a goal or some direction you wanna head toward, get an advisor at school and they can plan a path for you...
Kev

 

[MaxBiceps]

bro, education is the most important thing going for you right now. my parents always stressed education, and now that i'm older i understand why. stick with the school for a little while longer. if it's not for you then leave. you can always go back.

the bottom line is you can lose jobs/businesses/money, but once you own a degree, nothing can take that away....
someone help me out......

 

[Warik]

Warik, I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. I have been to college, still have yet to finish, and I wouldn't call it a waste.

Excerpt from today's "Logic for Computer Science Class"

"Suppose that F is a string and f is a symbol of length 1 within string. Prove that the number of "(" symbols in F is equal to the number of ")" symbols in F."

1) Of what significance is this to my life?
2) Of what significance is ANY VARIATION, NO MATTER HOW DISTINCT, to ANY part of my life, no matter HOW INSIGNIFICANT.
3) Suppose F is "Hello, World! =)" The number of "(" symbosl in F no longer equals the number of ")" symbols.

Stupid fucking class in a stupid fucking semester at a stupid fucking college that I don't need.

What is stopping me from getting a programming job in the real world?

Is it skill?
No.
Is it experience?
No.
Is it a worthless piece of paper that I'm going to give to my parents instead of framing it on my wall since they seem to be more interested in it than I am?
Yes.

-Warik

 

[Warik]

once you own a degree, nothing can take that away....

Yeah... once you own an incurable disease nothing can take that away either. The fact that nothing can take something away doesn't necessarily mean that the thing is worth anything.

-Warik

 

[Enrico]

If someone needs help in math you can pm me--I'm in Calculus II though, so I can't do some things, but all trig and most Calculus stuff I do know

Just an offer.

 

[gymtime]

Few people truly appreciate college until years after. Like I said Warik, you'll never use all that math in the real world. But ultimately, that smartass mind of yours will be even smartassyer for having gone through it. Read my gym analogy. It was brilliant.

 

[rudedawg]

College is fun but worth it? I doubt it.

Why would you go to college to become a Navy Seal? Do they have to have college degree? If anything join the Navy and let them pay for a big part of your college.

 

[MaxBiceps]

Yeah... once you own an incurable disease nothing can take that away either. The fact that nothing can take something away doesn't necessarily mean that the thing is worth anything.

-Warik

i don't see the connection between having a degree that you could use in the future for jobs /careers and having an incurable disease

 

[TheProject]

What is stopping me from getting a programming job in the real world?

Is it skill?
No.
Is it experience?
No.
Is it a worthless piece of paper that I'm going to give to my parents instead of framing it on my wall since they seem to be more interested in it than I am?
Yes.

To an extent, you're right. The piece of paper is your ticket.

My dad used to manage hotels for a living. Got so sick of it, he quit, and went to work in an auto plant. After getting laid off, he went through technical training, and became a programmer. Worked his way up the company ladder to an extent, but couldn't go any further because he didn't have a degree.

Now, that doesn't make all (or even one) of the courses valuable in terms of the information taught, but it makes the degree very valuable.

Having programmed before in school, I hated my theory classes too, but I understand their relevance. I may not have wanted to learn all that crap about structure and documentation and SLC, but I think I'm better off that I did.

 

[PHATchik]

College is definitely an experience. I have to admit that. I was from a small town before I went to college. So I think I had a certain innocence that people from small town often do. When I came to college, it was a different world. I was on my own. Finally, I might add. Life wasn't as simple as it used to be. I didn't really face things I hadn't faced before, but they seemed to be more of an issue in my life than they ever had before. In a way, I wish my life was still simple. As some of you know, the last week or two have been pretty hellish where some things are concerned. Is college worth it? Yes. I may get stressed or pissed occasionally. But there are enough awesome things about college that I wouldn't give up if I could. I'm learning things both academically and about life. Some knowledge may seem stupid or useless, but overall, my education has been pretty well-rounded and worthwhile.

 

[Citruscide]

Yeah... once you own an incurable disease nothing can take that away either. The fact that nothing can take something away doesn't necessarily mean that the thing is worth anything.

-Warik

STOP IT... STOP WHINING!!! -- Arnie

C

 

[starfish]

College drives me insane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But I think I would look at it differently if I had done the normal college route and gone when I was 18..

I traveled around and then out of **luck** I got a job doing what I love... I was training people with college degrees.

I went back to school before I knew I would never go and get irritated with most of it.... Half the classes I took were trying to weed people out of medical school... The professors couldn't have cared less... Some probably never saw my work.

I learned 100X more working in my field than going back to school. But having that piece of paper will get me in the door for future job offers..

 

[buddy28]

Will you use the math? Probably not per se. But, when you go to the gym, do you ever wonder, "when will I ever need to bench press outside of this gym?" No. You go to the gym to train your body, you go to school to train your mind.

Get your degree. It may not be as valuable as it once was. But, I guarantee you, it will open doors for you that would never open otherwise. It will also make you a more well-rounded person in ways that won't make any sense to you now. Dude, finish school.

What he said. An undergraduate degree trains an individual *how* to think, and how to present a persuasive argument.....two invaluable tools that allow you to be a objective, responsible, citizen who can apply a set of advanced learned skills, to a variety of vocations.

The anology is the childrens toy consisting of colored geometric blocks that fit into a base with corresponding shaped holes. A highschool education is like being that one triangle, or square hole in the base -- theres only one or two blocks that fit. The university education, is like the geometric hole that can change its shape to accomodate the different blocks. When a strange new block comes around, the hole can change its form to fit the block! Be that shape-shifting hole!!

PS-- ud have a better chance of becoming a seal if u had undergraduate degree in engineering, the physical sciences, or languages. Check out SEAL requirments on the NAVY recruiting homepage.

 

[sandiegomike]

College is not the end all, be all of jobs and income. However, I can tell you this, I have never met a person who made LESS because he went to college! The more you know, the more successful you can be at any career. Want to try the military? DO IT NOW THEN! Give yourself the break you feel you need now, try what you want to try, and if you don't become a SEAL, or if you don't want to be a career soldier, you will still walk out with a huge resume, and big cash for college.

Me personally, I was straight A student in a private catholic college prepatory high school. Once I got to college, I flunked out the first year. Why? Because like you, I didn't feel "ready" to go. Just wanted to get out in the world. At 31 I have now done and experienced ALOT of different things (kind of like the military would do for you), and have my own business that does well, but believe it or not I would now LOVE to go back to school. So much to learn!

I believe in college, I also believe in hard knocks and hard work. The thing I believe most in is doing what I feel is the right thing at the right time. That may mean college, but it also may mean college at age 30. Go when you are ready to get something out of it. Everything I have done in life, I have done what I thought was the right thing for me at that time in my life, and so far so good.

 

[Warik]

i don't see the connection between having a degree that you could use in the future for jobs /careers and having an incurable disease

Let me break it down into even simpler terms.

You: "Once you have a degree, no one can take it away!"

Me: "Once you have an incurable disease, no one can take it away!"

Obviously, having an incurable disease is bad. You claim that college is "good" because once you have a degree, no one can take it away. Under that premise, it would be logical to claim that everything that cannot be taken away from you is good. This, obviously, is false based on my counterexample.

Didn't they teach you logic in your beloved college?

-Warik

 

[studly1]

shiat-i break it down yup


nigga don't go to school-nigga dont get no job

nigga dont got no job-nigga dont got no money

nigga dont got no money-nigga dont got no BMW-ya and no bitches..yo...im out!!

 

[buddy28]

It's a known fact - everyone who went to college tells you it's a waste, everyone who DIDN'T go to college tells you its a necessity.

-Warik

This is bunk. Unless a person is incrediably intelligent, a university or college education, like gymtime mentioned, teaches anaylitical skills and objective inquiry.

During third and fourth year, I used to think, "this shit is stupid, how is this helping me?" or "this is so easy, why am I wasting my time".

The answer. All those years of being forced to write essays, and complete research for tests and papers, refined my analytical skills and honed my ability to create a persuasive, objective argument. These are broad skills that can be applied to any endeavor in life, regardless of whether financial compensation is the primary motivation for employing these skills.

 

[buddy28]

Let me break it down into even simpler terms.

You: "Once you have a degree, no one can take it away!"

Me: "Once you have an incurable disease, no one can take it away!"

Obviously, having an incurable disease is bad. You claim that college is "good" because once you have a degree, no one can take it away. Under that premise, it would be logical to claim that everything that cannot be taken away from you is good. This, obviously, is false based on my counterexample.

Didn't they teach you logic in your beloved college?

-Warik

Warik,

Not to be a dick, but you should learn the definition of deduction and induction.

Induction - any form of reasoning in which the conclusion, though supported by the premises, does not follow them nessecarily

Deduction - a process of reasoning in which a conclusion follows nessecarily from the premises presented, so that the conclusion can not be false, if the premises are true.

Your confusing inductive reasoning, with deductive logic. No one is making the inductive assumption that possessing a substance that can never be removed is good, except yourself. You seem to be presenting a staw man argument to display ur intelligence, which evidently backfired.

Obviously, they havent taught you the difference between induction and deduction in college. Keep studying!

 

[Warik]

A university or college education, like gymtime mentioned, teaches anaylitical skills and objective inquiry.

Then why have many people like me had these skills just after leaving high school, and why have more than many college graduates failed to EVER learn these skills?

Face it - college is a "necessity" because the better jobs require a piece of paper saying that you know something, as opposed to you proving that you know something.

I challenge ANYONE to tell ME why college is useful to ME without mentioning "you need a degree to get a good job." Let's pretend that NO ONE needed a degree to get a good job and that having a degree would not help your chances of being hired. What practical skills would the guy with a Masters in Computer Science from MIT have that I would not?

Note: Practical skills. Theory, the main difference between a "good" school and a "normal" school != a practical skill.

Have fun.

-Warik

 

[Warik]

Warik,

Not to be a dick, but you should learn the definition of deduction and induction.

Induction - any form of reasoning in which the conclusion, though supported by the premises, does not follow them nessecarily

Deduction - a process of reasoning in which a conclusion follows nessecarily from the premises presented, so that the conclusion can not be false, if the premises are true.

Your confusing inductive reasoning, with deductive logic. No one is making the inductive assumption that possessing a substance that can never be removed is good, except yourself. You seem to be presenting a staw man argument to display ur intelligence, which evidently backfired.

Obviously, they havent taught you the difference between induction and deduction in college. Keep studying!

buddy,

Not to be a dick, but too much time in college has caused you to confuse "theory" with "real world application." In the real world, people who insist on proving their points resort to deductive reasoning. "Oh, once you have a college degree, no one can take it away! College degrees are good!" To state that I should get a college degree because "no one can take it away" suggests that the fact that no one can take it away is the reason I should get it, as opposed to stating that there is a good reason to get it, and, once I have it, it can't be taken away.

I opposed this argument by stating that the fact that no one can take something away is rarely, if ever, a solid reason as to why it is good.

"No one can take away your college degree... so it is good!"

How about...

"Once you have a disease that no one can cure, it will eventually kill you. Things that kill you are bad, thus, disease that cannot be cured are bad." Solid argument. The former, of course, holds little, if any, water.

My goal was to prove that the fact that no one can take away a college degree says nothing about why it is useful, which I have succeeded in doing. Your goal was to prove that college degrees were useful. Seeing as how I still fail to believe you, or even understand your reasoning, you have failed in your goal.

Inductive reasoning is shit anyway.

"Eating cow feces will make you huge!" Yeah... you won't necessarily get huge from eating cow feces... "but still!"

-Warik

 

[Warik]

No one is making the inductive assumption that possessing a substance that can never be removed is good, except yourself.

Oh, and don't you mean the deductive assumption?

"Whoops!"

-Warik

 

[buddy28]

Then why have many people like me had these skills just after leaving high school, and why have more than many college graduates failed to EVER learn these skills?

Face it - college is a "necessity" because the better jobs require a piece of paper saying that you know something, as opposed to you proving that you know something.

I challenge ANYONE to tell ME why college is useful to ME without mentioning "you need a degree to get a good job." Let's pretend that NO ONE needed a degree to get a good job and that having a degree would not help your chances of being hired. What practical skills would the guy with a Masters in Computer Science from MIT have that I would not?

Warik, your making the assumption that merely *attending* college enables *every* graduate to think critically, and objectivily.

There are numerous exogenous factors that mitigate the successfull adoption of anaylitical skills during college enrollment. They are:

1) personal effort or dedicated time to studies
2) interest in courses choosen
3) method of course instruction
4) quality of course instruction
5) personal intelligence

All of these factors influence whether a student will adopt analyitical, objective, cognitive skills. Of course, were working on a continum of individual potential intellectual achievement. Each persons intellectual skills are limited by genetics and enviroment. The goal of each college and university, besides instructing the required course content, is to enable every person to reach their individual intellectual potential, based on the factors listed above.

Whats the difference between you and a CS Masters Graduate from MIT? Shit, are you serious? Warik, if you were MIT material, youd be there, on a scholarship, assuming youd accept. The difference between you and an MIT CS Masters Graduate:

Ivy League schools attract the most respected, and usually the most intelligent instructors, in their respected feilds. Course instruction and cotent, therefore, is unmatched. Therefore, students attending Ivy Leauge schools, like MIT, are able to benefit from the increased understanding and knowledge their professors have, relative to "normal" colleges. Consequently, its very likely, MIT CS Masters students, have access to a knowledge and resources, you do not.

College will help you open your eyes to other viewpoints. This is a good thing. Dont be afraid to be wrong, or youll never understand the truth.

Go in peace Grasshopper

 

[buddy28]

Oh, and don't you mean the deductive assumption?

"Whoops!"

-Warik

No, I didnt mean that.

Induction - any form of reasoning in which the conclusion, though supported by the premises, does not follow them nessecarily

YOUR concluding that,

a) anything that cannot be taking away is good.

This is based on the premise that

b) having a university degree is good, because it can never be taking away.

NO ONE ever made that inductive conclusion, except yourself. And you claim others are making it, but no one is.

whoops.

 

[Puc]

Warik,

Not to be a dick, but you should learn the definition of deduction and induction.

Induction - any form of reasoning in which the conclusion, though supported by the premises, does not follow them nessecarily

Deduction - a process of reasoning in which a conclusion follows nessecarily from the premises presented, so that the conclusion can not be false, if the premises are true.

Your confusing inductive reasoning, with deductive logic. No one is making the inductive assumption that possessing a substance that can never be removed is good, except yourself. You seem to be presenting a staw man argument to display ur intelligence, which evidently backfired.

Obviously, they havent taught you the difference between induction and deduction in college. Keep studying!

holy shit!

a lexicographer convention!!!!

 

[Warik]

No, I didnt mean that.

Induction - any form of reasoning in which the conclusion, though supported by the premises, does not follow them nessecarily

YOUR concluding that,

a) anything that cannot be taking away is good.

This is based on the premise that

b) having a university degree is good, because it can never be taking away.

NO ONE ever made that inductive conclusion, except yourself. And you claim others are making it, but no one is.

whoops.

Uh, no.

You're claiming that I'm saying others made that inductive conclusion. I'm claiming that someone made that DEDUCTIVE conclusion, saying that a university degree is good because it can never be taken away which is blatantly untrue and illogical.

I did the complete opposite. I said that claiming something is good because it can never be taken away is WRONG and provided a counterexample for it.

Pardon the big chain-sentence, but you claim that I claim that someone else is claiming this, when in fact I didn't claim any such thing.

I'm bored with this "lexicographical argument (c) Puc" because, much like college, it provides nothing of any significant benefit to my existence.

If you'd like to think of some other reason besides "degree = job!" as to why college is useful, feel free.

As for analytical skills, etc. That should not be the purpose of college. The purpose of college is to specialize in a field and develop the skills needed to succeed in that skill. If college was what you are claiming it is, why are there majors and fields of specialization? Why is there not one big analytical orgy where everyone sits around and develops their skills?

I'll tell you why - because college is being pitched as "come here! learn lots! do good in life!" when in fact they simply regurgitate, ineffectively, what you could easily obtain from a book. Isn't the purpose of a filter to leave the bullshit out and let only the good stuff go through? If anything, a college professor is supposed to be a filter.

Let's say I work 30 years in a field and decide to teach. Should I teach a) straight out of the book, or b) what the students will actually use in the particular field.

You know what one of my teachers told us at the beginning of the year in reference to one of the programming languages we were studying? "Well.. no one uses this anymore in the programming world, but you should learn it anyway."

Give me a fucking break. The only useful class I have left at college is Software Engineering I, and that's pretty sad considering I have about 16 credit hours left.

-Warik

 

[gymtime]

Warik, if this is such a monumental waste of time, why the hell are you there?

 

[Golfer18--old]

Guys Im NOT debating on rather to quit. Of course Im not gonna quit. Citrus I know its tough to be a S.E.A.L.


Its not gonna be tough when I think of the Men and Women Who jumped 110 stories to their death. It won't be hard when I think of the children that are without parents because of the tragic event of 9-11-01. Quit is not in my Dictionary. Pain is temporary. Im doing this for myself and every American who lost their lives in the attacks.



I will get a degree in case I am injured and can't do what it takes. I always make sure i have something to fall back on, in this case its a degree.

 

[TheProject]

The only useful class I have left at college is Software Engineering I, and that's pretty sad considering I have about 16 credit hours left.

Doesn't the fact that this class is useful to you answer your earlier question?

 

[Lao Tzu]

i don't like college (but i don't really like anything else for that matter so i wouldn't take my experience as gospel) that is why i am trying for an associates degree. i want to do 40 credit hours a year (15 spring/fall, 10 summer), so i can get out in 1 1/2 years.


Thank god for placement exams, CLEP tests & the fact that you can determine your own schedule.

ps if you just need a degree to put on your resume, you can. they are called 'diploma mills'. sadly most are shut down, and are no longer 'accredited'. but you may find an accredited diploma mill somewhere. good luck.

 

[buddy28]

Warik,

No. NO ONE is making the inductive assumption in which any quality that cannot be taking away, is good, except yourself.

U misinterpreted the persons statement for ur own purpose.

As for college being useless. Perhaps your negative opinion of college is the result of the particular college uve chosen to attend? Professors regularly do filter appropriate, practical information, and incorporate it into their lecture material. However, in order to get a robust understanding of the evolution of certain diciplines, knowledge that may be considered outdated, or obsolete, is also passed on to students to give them a perspective of where the feild was, and where the feild is headed.

If all you wanted was practical information without theory, why didnt u just go to an IT school?

Theory is great, because it gives u the tools to create ur own solutions, instead of being taught individual solutions, that without underlying theory, cant be manipulated.

 

[big4life]

College is worth it. The main thing is to take what you're interested in. Not what is going to make you the most money, not what your family wants you to study. You are going to get an education for yourself, not someone else. It can be a very rewarding time in your life. Go, have fun and enjoy yourself.

 

[MaxBiceps]

Let me break it down into even simpler terms.

You: "Once you have a degree, no one can take it away!"

Me: "Once you have an incurable disease, no one can take it away!"

Obviously, having an incurable disease is bad. You claim that college is "good" because once you have a degree, no one can take it away. Under that premise, it would be logical to claim that everything that cannot be taken away from you is good. This, obviously, is false based on my counterexample.

Didn't they teach you logic in your beloved college?

-Warik

interesting logic warik...

 

[Enrico]

Um, someone mentioned that MIT was in the Ivy League--just to clear things up, it's not.

There are eight Ivy League Schools:
-Harvard
-Princeton
-Yale
-Columbia
-Cornell
-Brown
-Dartmouth
-The University of Pennsylvania

Look it up if you don't believe me. I applied to 4 of them.

But why quit school? It can get you a lot of jobs depending on your major, and it's so EASY! Hell I got a 3.7 last semester without even trying!

Besides, ya gotta love that slightly superior feeling you get when you're talking to some dumbass and you're thinking "this idiot doesn't even know how to integrate a transcendental function!"

 

[Lao Tzu]

Um, someone mentioned that MIT was in the Ivy League--just to clear things up, it's not.

There are eight Ivy League Schools:
-Harvard
-Princeton
-Yale
-Columbia
-Cornell
-Brown
-Dartmouth
-The University of Pennsylvania

Look it up if you don't believe me. I applied to 4 of them.

But why quit school? It can get you a lot of jobs depending on your major, and it's so EASY! Hell I got a 3.7 last semester without even trying!

Besides, ya gotta love that slightly superior feeling you get when you're talking to some dumbass and you're thinking "this idiot doesn't even know how to integrate a transcendental function!"

http://www.insideedgenewsletter.com/articles/november1999/ivy-league_schools.html

school is easier if you learn how to learn, or if you have good genetics.

 

[Warik]

Besides, ya gotta love that slightly superior feeling you get when you're talking to some dumbass and you're thinking "this idiot doesn't even know how to integrate a transcendental function!"

Well, what would be your first response if I laughed at you because I could write a recursive algorithm to search a list of 5,000,000,000 names and find the name I'm looking for after only a handful of checks and you couldn't?

Most likely: "Why do I care? How does that benefit my life?"

That's often what the guy who doesn't know how to integrate a transcendental function thinks as well.

If the study of something will not benefit your life, why should you be forced to study it? Why should Computer Science majors take Biology classes? Why should Psychologists take Math classes? Give me a break.

-Warik

 

[Warik]

http://www.insideedgenewsletter.com/articles/november1999/ivy-league_schools.html

school is easier if you learn how to learn, or if you have good genetics.

Lol... my friend goes to Harvard and was majoring in CS. I looked at some of her homework and what she was studying and informed her that she was paying 30k a semester to learn less than that for which I paid only 2k a semester.

Nothing like spending 40 years to learn nothing and being 6 digits in debt... BWHAHAHAHHA. Let's see how useful your Ivy League degree is in 10 years when people want to know what you've done in the past 10 years as opposed to what you did 10 years ago. LOL

-Warik

 

[Lao Tzu]

If the study of something will not benefit your life, why should you be forced to study it? Why should Computer Science majors take Biology classes? Why should Psychologists take Math classes? Give me a break.

-Warik

i heard from campus workers that it is because most students don't know what they want to do with their life, so they are required to take about 10 various non-career relevant courses to determine what subject(s) they like better and if they should change their major to study that.

i looove sociology, but there is nothing you can do with the degree unless you have an MA or Ph.D.. even then there is no guarantee you will be more than a pet monkey for corporations.

how is that relevant to day to day life? it isn't, i just felt like saying it.

 

[Enrico]

Warik:
I don't go to an Ivy League school. I go to a public school on a scholarship. I wasn't saying you get a superior education at an Ivy league school or anything like that, I was merely correcting whoever said MIT was an Ivy League school.

I agree that some of the core requirements are stupid. I am a Biology major, and I want to be a doctor. So why on earth do I need to take Western World Literature and Calculus II? But, if I want to be a doctor I have to take the stupid courses along with Biology and Organic Chemistry. In this case, the ends (a degree) justifies the means (stupid courses).

 

[Warik]

In this case, the ends (a degree) justifies the means (stupid courses).

In your case, it does. You want to be a doctor and, I don't care where in the U.S. you live, no one will give you a license unless you have a degree. My situation is different, so I stress it more. The field of computers changes so rapidly that the shit I learned last year will be outdated by the time I get my degree. SIGH

-Warik

 

[buddy28]

If the study of something will not benefit your life, why should you be forced to study it? Why should Computer Science majors take Biology classes? Why should Psychologists take Math classes? Give me a break.

-Warik

So a person doesnt think as narrow mindedly as yourself. Fuck man, u keep on putting ur foot in ur mouth. Warik, there are people who are smarter than you on this earth. And guess what, alot of them can be found in the academia! GASP!! People, whove lived 4 times as long as you, have discovered, after deep soul searching and intellectual reflection, that students are best served by a well rounded ciriculum, in addition to their selected major.

Psychologists learn math so they can understand and interpret research that requires statistical anaylsis. Computer science majors study biology, a) in case they may like it , b) learn an appreciation for the biological sciences, revel in Gods complexity, and hopefully develop an appreciation for the fragilness of life.

The world is a big fucking place. If u want to understand it, and be a responsbile earth citizen, youll have to learn more than computer science!

And yes, you can learn this in any textbook. Y? incidently, textbooks used in university, are written by university professors! But most people like to learn by aid of an instructor. Its the human tradition. Y? Everyone can benefit from the aid of an instructor. Some can do without one, but hey, your blessed to be in the position u are.

Try to appreciate some of the diciplines that are so unjustly being forced upon you. You might actually enjoy them.

 

[buddy28]

Let's see how useful your Ivy League degree is in 10 years when people want to know what you've done in the past 10 years as opposed to what you did 10 years ago. LOL

-Warik

All the best jobs go to Ivy League grads.

Dont beleive me?

Potential employer: "hmmm, should I take the harvard grad, or the community college grad......hmmm......let me see......."

 

[buddy28]

In your case, it does. You want to be a doctor and, I don't care where in the U.S. you live, no one will give you a license unless you have a degree. My situation is different, so I stress it more. The field of computers changes so rapidly that the shit I learned last year will be outdated by the time I get my degree. SIGH

-Warik

now i understand. Dont worry dude. Just keep at it.

 

[Warik]

now i understand. Dont worry dude. Just keep at it.

I don't know if this is one of those clever "'ahh... I get it" dismissals, but if it is not, then thanks for understanding. I don't usually bitch about college until it gets to me. I know I'm not omniscient and that I don't have all of the answers, but I'm sure of the ones I have. College is beneficial to many people, but it's also a crutch for others. I can't remember how many times I've been told something to the extent of "well if you're such a Mr. Smarty pants why don't you go get a Masters from MIT and yada yada yada and do this and that and that?" Because I'd rather be working and making investments for my future family.

I don't know how the attitude about this is among my "peers," but I plan to get married and have multiple children one day. Going off to some overpriced university and spending 4-8 years of my life "learning" and then leaving to find myself in a debt that exceeds my annual salary isn't going to help me get to where I want to get.

I've learned more things on the job about database management than I've learned in my database management class I took last semester. Some people learn better through practical applications than through endless study. I'm 20 years old and just 16 or so credits away from getting my Bachelor's in Computer Science. At the same time, I'm working in a related field in hopes of acquiring some experience and something worth employing. Mixing what you "have" to do and what you "want" to do normally leads to what you NEVER want to do - be stressed.

But hey... what can you do besides bitch about it on an Internet chat board.

 

[buddy28]

no , it wasnt a dismissal.

Alot of people feel the same as you, college being too expensive. Its true. It is. Oh well, youll graduate, get a job in ur related feild, and be happy.

peace.

 

[Penis]

STOP IT... STOP WHINING!!! -- Arnie

C

You know you're the girl of my dreams

 

[chillin408]

I think that college is just a way to earn authority status via a degree.

Because most people who go through college probably do not learn much, or at least do not learn what they studied logically, they get the degree and thats all the matters in American, Authority status.

 

[Lao Tzu]

Alot of people feel the same as you, college being too expensive. Its true. It is.

its not that expensive. usually it runs about $4k a year if you are doing 30 credit hours a year. that is only $330 a month, the price of a car loan, or minor mortgage. i guess because you don't have time to work that that makes it expensive but overall college isn't that expensive. its not the monster people make it out to be at least.

 

[GaryWary]

Re: ...

YOu seem to hate me bro but heres some advice. If you want to make big money nowadays you have to sell something. Sales=Money

Professions you get from college unless your talking doctor or lawyer ain't gonna make you rich.

Outgoing personality is much more important. Sales, gotta sell something to make money.

There is truth to what you are saying. Sales professionals can earn huge amounts.. usually consisting of a fairly low/average basic salary plus the commission. So you gotta be good at Sales and have something worth selling for it to work out well for you...

IT professionals are in great demand. If you get an IT or related degree and somne experience in ERP or CRM - you can make shitloads...

As for Golfer - yeah go fi being a Navy Seal. You should finish the schooling you have started though and do the best you can. It is always helpful to have qualifications. As for wether I can remember anything of my studies.. dude, I doubt I could perform simple calculus now.. I have forgotten it all... and I got a PhD in engineering..... I remember the stuff that matters though. Like supply chain stuff, IT stuff, business stuff...

 

[GaryWary]

Re: Re: ...

There is truth to what you are saying. Sales professionals can earn huge amounts.. usually consisting of a fairly low/average basic salary plus the commission. So you gotta be good at Sales and have something worth selling for it to work out well for you (i.e. make loadsa commission)...

IT professionals are in great demand. If you get an IT or related degree and somne experience in ERP or CRM - you can make shitloads...

As for Golfer - yeah go for being a Navy Seal. You should finish the schooling you have started though and do the very best you can. It is always helpful to have qualifications. As for whether I can remember anything of my studies.. dude, I doubt I could perform simple calculus now.. I have forgotten it all... and I got a PhD in engineering..... I remember the stuff that matters TO ME getting the job I want though, like supply chain stuff, IT stuff, business stuff...

 

[WODIN]

Quadratic Equations!!!!!

Dear Lord I just finished a bunch of them!!! Differentiate that!

 

[Golfer18--old]

Holy shit, you guys (buddy and warik) should chat on MSN. LOL, you two have been going at it all night. I love it.

 

[GaryWary]

its not that expensive. usually it runs about $4k a year if you are doing 30 credit hours a year. that is only $330 a month, the price of a car loan, or minor mortgage. i guess because you don't have time to work that that makes it expensive but overall college isn't that expensive. its not the monster people make it out to be at least.

I ran debts up of 20k UK pounds. It might be true that this figure works out to be a minor mortgage or car loan equivalent, but what you are not figuring in this equation is what happens when you do want to get a mortgage or car loan but CANNOT because your debts are still too large to deal with. To repay 20k over a 5 year period is a lot of fucking money.

 

[Puc]

Well, what would be your first response if I laughed at you because I could write a recursive algorithm to search a list of 5,000,000,000 names and find the name I'm looking for after only a handful of checks and you couldn't?

warik, i wish i could claim even this had use

been programming for 3 years now and I have never had to write a search or sort algorithm.

success in coding is had by using other peoples previously written shit so that you can get it done faster... I don't like doing it that way (i am more of a theoretician), but that is the way it works.

they should start teaching proper techniques to search Google and Tek-tips.com, now that would be useful...

 

[Warik]

Puc,

I know. They spend weeks talking about the importance of the binary seach and the merge sort algorithms in class. Why? They are all ready written. No one is going to say "oh, write a mergesort so we can see how good of a programmer you are." They're gonna say: "go cut and paste a good sorting algorithm so we can get the important shit done." They need to teach how to develop new algorithms to solve problems rather than teaching the old algorithms that are readily available anywhere.

I've never had to write a search or sort algorithm in my job either... the functions are build in, and its 100x easier if it's in an SQL query. Got to love the "ORDER BY" clause.

-Warik