Is clomid necessary w/ nolvadex?

[drug_against_war]

Hey vets and mods,
If I have nolvadex to take during my cycle and plan on using nolva w/ HCG post-cycle, do I still need Clomid? I've seen a lot of people insist on it, but I'm not sure if that includes using nolva too. I've read that they are virtually the same, but nolva is more potent and can therefore be taken in smaller amounts than Clomid (which is why Clomid causes so many negative side effects). I'm planning on using a 500mg Testex/200mg Deca cycle with 30mg D-bol weeks 1-6, so it's possible I might get some strong aromartization.
Any thoughts?

Thanks

 

[nhbgorilla]

I dont think theyre "virtually the same" at all. Clomid stimulates lh and gets your test levels on their way back to normal. Nolvadex is a breast tissue specific anti estrogen. What is "virtually the same" about these drugs??? is there something I missed about Nolva helping to re-start you?

 

[drug_against_war]

I think it's the chemical structure that is identical. Nolvadex isn't for re-starting your natural test, it's for blocking estrogen receptors WHILE your natural test is returning. The HCG is supposed to help return natural test and LH levels.
Here is some info on the subject from www.bodybuilding.com:

So which one should you use? Well personally, I'd have to say Nolvadex. Both as an on-cycle anti-estrogen and a post-cycle therapy. As an anti-estrogen its simply much stronger, demonstrated by the fact that better results are obtained with 20-40 mg than with 100-150 mg of clomid. For post-cycle, this plays a key role as well. It deactivates rebound estrogen much faster and more effective. But most importantly, Nolvadex has a direct influence on bringing back natural testosterone, where as clomid may actually have a slight negative influence. The reason being that Tamoxifen (as in Nolvadex) seems to increase the responsiveness of LH (luteinizing hormone) to GnRH (gonadtropin releasing hormone), whereas clomid seems to decrease the responsiveness a bit1.

Another noteworthy fact about Nolvadex is that it acts more potently as an estrogen in the liver. As you remember, I mentioned that clomiphene and tamoxifen are basically weak estrogens. Well, tamoxifen is apparently still quite potent in the liver. This offers us the positive benefits of this hormone in the liver, while avoiding its negative effects elsewhere in the body. As such Nolvadex can have a very positive impact on negative cholesterol levels2 in the body, and therefore too should be considered a better choice than clomid. It will not solve the problem of bad cholesterol levels during Steroid use, but will help to contain the problem to a larger degree.

Another reason why I promote the use of Nolvadex over Clomid post-cycle (as if being 3-4 times stronger and having more of a direct effect on restoring natural test wasn't enough) is because it's a lot safer. Not just because it improves lipid profiles, but also because it simply doesn't have the intrinsic side-effects that Clomid has. Clomid causes more acne for sure, but that's mainly because you need to use a 3-4 times higher dose. But Clomid seems to also affect the eyesight. Long-term clomid therapy causes irreversible changes in eyesight3 in users. Irreversible. For me that alone is reason enough to prefer Nolvadex

Now I'm not trying to market nolva or anything, but why the insistence on clomid?

 

[The Bigfella]

I dont think theyre "virtually the same" at all. Clomid stimulates lh and gets your test levels on their way back to normal. Nolvadex is a breast tissue specific anti estrogen. What is "virtually the same" about these drugs??? is there something I missed about Nolva helping to re-start you?

Sorry bro, that is one of BBings long standing myths. clomid does not stimulate anything, but rather, reduces the estrogenic inhibition from a cycle to allow natural Test levels to normalise post-cycle, it achieves this by binding to the hormone receptor and not allowing those stronger hormones access.
Nolvadex and Clomid are virtually identical structurally and in their actions, but Nolvadex appears to be the more potent anti-e allowing lower doses to achieve similar results. Personally I combine the 2 post-cycle as they do offer some individual characteristics also and feel this covers all bases better.

BTW, HCG should never be run post-cycle as it is inhibitory to natural test which is counter productive to your post-cycle goals, it is best run during the cycle for reasons of avoiding atrophy of the testes alone and serves no other purpose at all. Dosing should be in the 500 to 1000iu/day for 1 to 2 weeks at a time.
Hope this helps bro.........

Bigfella.