Is Being OFF all that bad????????? The mindset behind running LOOOOONNNNGGG "cycles"

[bigAragorn]

Im currently finishing up my second cycle and i must say i am looking forward to post cycle recovery. I get real pumped up and enjoy working towards keeping my gains. Then i started thinking.......i have read alot about some of you intending to run "cycles" in which the duration is almost as long as a year. NOw this is not directed at everyone and i am certainly not judging here.

Looking for an open minded discussion. Isnt the point of being on gear solely to help push through plateaus? When i came off my first cycle i worked my ass off to keep the gains i had made and then for 3 months pushed through and even gained about 5 pounds of lean mass.

I guess i am wondering where the mindset of being on that long comes from. Anyone who has done so chime in with your pros and cons and your reasons for electing to run or to have run a longer cycle.

 

[naturally anabolic]

people have different reasons why they use AAS some use it for plateaus like u said but others feel they cannot grow without its useage. It depends upon the users goals.

 

[muscleup]

Well I'm up for a good discussion....I like to saty on for 16-20 weeks at a time as I feel it helps me stabilize my Bodyweight...Your body gets more used to holding that Much Body Mass Index and so therefore when you come off your body tends to hold it better

 

[Silent Method]

I'm coming off too, starting my recovery tomorrow. Yes, I'm looking forward to it as well. I know I'm going to miss these freaky d-bol pumps for a while, but I know it won't be long before I'm in full swing.

After my last cycle was over, just a few weeks after recovery I felt like I was growing FAST and my physique was getting very hard. On or off gear, training hard should be fulfilling.

 

[Mike P.T.]

Well I'm up for a good discussion....I like to saty on for 16-20 weeks at a time as I feel it helps me stabilize my Bodyweight...Your body gets more used to holding that Much Body Mass Index and so therefore when you come off your body tends to hold it better

Agreed.

Plus I never boatload anyway and enjoy a steady moderate increase over time which again the body can handle and maintain much better once off. I am over 2 months off my 7 month long cycle and I have maintained nearly all my gains. Bro's on this site that know me personally can vouch for me on this one. I'm even gaining now again. Sex drive and energy are high. Everything is good. Not great like when I was on but good. Plus I also take long breaks in between as well. Not going back on until around March.

Only bad thing is that I can't stay as lean as when I was on. Then again I was taking fat burners too consistently. That plus the juice helped me stay nice and lean this summer. Now I'm just a big bloated strong bastard at 230 plus. Hehehe oh well I'll start my cycle next year with cutting up in mind just as I did last year with immediate results.

 

[Diz]

Well I'm up for a good discussion....I like to saty on for 16-20 weeks at a time as I feel it helps me stabilize my Bodyweight...Your body gets more used to holding that Much Body Mass Index and so therefore when you come off your body tends to hold it better

I`m with you,16-20wks works great for me.

 

[Spectre]

I'm a little older (31) with low test so I am going with a long cycle. I gained a little post cycle last time, but I feel as if I am running into some 'hard' limits. I don't mind the idea of HRT a shot a week in the future either. I can fathom doing a long cycle (9months) then a yearly maint cycle after that.. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. (pun intended).

Moderate doses, no orals and consistent bloodwork and I see no reason to go off other than protect your gonads, and we have ways to make them happy as well.

Additionaly, I have a hard time fiting a liffting strategy into 12 weeks. This is just me and my opinion ony.

 

[haxedout]

i wont do a cycle less than 12 weeks now.. seems like i cant grow unless im on for longer periods of time, i guess its too much juice...

 

[Latamier]

Right now I'm 30, and last year I was only "OFF" for a total of four months. The reasoning behind the duration for me is I believe AAS are truly the fountain of youth. I have been juicing for over 7 years now and get quarterly lab workups. All my labs have been normal, and I feel as if I were still 18. I have recently read in a magazine, cant remember which one, of a guy in his 60s that has been juicing well over 30 years with perfect lab results, and his Drs. compare him to a 30 year old. Thats where I want to be when I'm his age. This is another reason why I get so pissed at the U.S. Govt for all the bullshit legislation they have passed on drugs that could truly be the fountain of youth.

 

[muscleup]

Agreed.

Plus I never boatload anyway and enjoy a steady moderate increase over time which again the body can handle and maintain much better once off. I am over 2 months off my 7 month long cycle and I have maintained nearly all my gains. Bro's on this site that know me personally can vouch for me on this one. I'm even gaining now again. Sex drive and energy are high. Everything is good. Not great like when I was on but good. Plus I also take long breaks in between as well. Not going back on until around March.

Only bad thing is that I can't stay as lean as when I was on. Then again I was taking fat burners too consistently. That plus the juice helped me stay nice and lean this summer. Now I'm just a big bloated strong bastard at 230 plus. Hehehe oh well I'll start my cycle next year with cutting up in mind just as I did last year with immediate results.

yup same here...I have been off for about 9 weeks after a 5 months cycle....Will be getting cranked up again real soon...

 

[Dr.Equinstein]

After reading your posts I would like to say my thinking behind why running long cycles doesn't apply to any of you. I think another reason why someone would want to run along cycle is the fact that this usually translates into less time they are OFF. I see this all the time and I even fall into the trap every once in awhile. You are off, you have your new body and then you start slacking, diet starts to slad, the gym becomes less of a priority. Its like giving someone a placebo (spelling?) they start crankin it out come game time when they should of had everything in check from the beginning.

Oh and by the way muscleup I am thinking of extending my cycle to 20 weeks muahaha.

 

[bigAragorn]

Excellent replies so far. It seems only from people who advocate long use but thats okay as you all refrained from flaming me for my opinion. I must admit that i take my training very seriously and understand that many people just arent as intense when off--> i used to look at that as a weakness but it is just a fact.
Although i know most of you do not need gear to stay intense in the gym (latamier and mike pt especially)

Silent Method--> You seem to have the same mindset as myself....training should be fulfilling regardless of gear use

Mike P.T.--> I knew i would here from you on this one. I respect you as a trainer as i know you are a strong lifter and take bodybuilding seriously. Interesting take on why long use isnt all that bad.

Latamier--> You also are a very accomplished bodybuilder and i have never thought of a 60 year old being that healthy after steady gear use. I am of the opinion that my approach will let that happen for me. Here's hoping that yours will too.

Any more thoughts....those who advocate short use chime in please. More fuel to the fire as well--> Do those who cycle longer take in to account any health issues or the idea of body adaptation to gear use over longer periods? What are your takes on it?

 

[bigAragorn]

Well I'm up for a good discussion....I like to saty on for 16-20 weeks at a time as I feel it helps me stabilize my Bodyweight...Your body gets more used to holding that Much Body Mass Index and so therefore when you come off your body tends to hold it better

Sure but dont you think an effective post cycle regimen would allow your body to adapt similarily?
Using myself as an example--> bear in mind i am probably healthiest and most athletic at about 210 even though im hovering at 270 right now......i had gained nearly 30 pounds on my first cycle....kept it all.

 

[Mike P.T.]

Sure but dont you think an effective post cycle regimen would allow your body to adapt similarily?

Well let me reanswer what I wrote a bit. I do agree with this up to a certain point. As long as you use moderate doseages. Much higher doses are harder to keep no matter what but I still feel that the body can maintain more of it if you allow it to adapt to the extra weight.(even in higher doseages - just my opinion though) I see guys though doing over 2 grams for 10 weeks and these types of cycles I don't like since the body gains so fast and readily but just when it starts getting used to the added bodyweight and strength you come off the drugs. Bad idea.

Keep in mind my doseages personally never exceed 1 gram either. Only time was for 3 weeks at one point and that was at 1050mg. Another thing is that I like to juice during spring and summer anyway. I want to be at my best during my best seasons. I hate fall and winter and don't really mind being all bulked up during this time. I get strong as hell naturally during the winter anyway since excess calories are of no concern at this point.

btw - Thx for the kind words the feeling is mutual as well

 

[Nutrient-Nut]

Short Cycles

I prefer short cycles of the 8 week duration. I don't like to be on less than 6 weeks but I never go on longer than 8 weeks. I always run one C17AA oral along with 1-2 injectables. I always stay clean for twice the amount of time that I'm on. So, if my cycle was 8 weeks long, then I'm off for 16 weeks. I believe that one should try to get as much muscle built b/w cycles as possible. I think that it is crazy how some people do such long cycles. Long cycles are not for me, even if I didn't have an oral in my cycle. The body needs time off, and more time off than on, that is if you truly care about your health!

NN

 

[Festo]

I would like to know what was your post cycle therapy for those doing cycle around 20 weeks long?

I was thinking of something like this:

Week 1 to 16 500mg. Test enanthate
Week 16 to 18 250mg. week of test
Week 18 to 20 125mg. test+HCG 500 iu/day

Then week 22 a normal clomid therapy for 3 weeks.

And hcg for a week at 500iu at week 10

Any comments?

 

[gtaman]

The biggest problem with long cycles is knocking your libido out of commission. Basically I think people on longer cycles are saying they will someday just be on "full time." A 20-25 week cycle might take over a year for recovery. Most won't wait that long, so they become less and less able to get by without gear. Or so I've heard.

 

[me2dammit]

LOL

actually it has been proven in many studies that 6 motnhs straight use of gear gets the same "recovery phase" as a 12 week cycle.

Once you pass that 8-12 week period, you might as well stay on longer.

And your body will change its weight set point easier this way to. Look at some people that juice for along time then come off for a few years. They probaly still hold at least 10 more lbs than they would have ever held without juice, some more than that.

Alot of us go buy the guy who is 40 and has been juicing for 20 years and says he comes off and is fucked or recovery is bad. But by that age your hormonal production is fucked anyway, and even a regular joe is losing what little muscle mass he has.

 

[bigAragorn]

Re: LOL

actually it has been proven in many studies that 6 motnhs straight use of gear gets the same "recovery phase" as a 12 week cycle.

Once you pass that 8-12 week period, you might as well stay on longer.

And your body will change its weight set point easier this way to. Look at some people that juice for along time then come off for a few years. They probaly still hold at least 10 more lbs than they would have ever held without juice, some more than that.

Alot of us go buy the guy who is 40 and has been juicing for 20 years and says he comes off and is fucked or recovery is bad. But by that age your hormonal production is fucked anyway, and even a regular joe is losing what little muscle mass he has.

what are the specifics......the problem with posting "its been proven in many studies" is that many of the studies are not specific to what we as "juicers" are doing. I would like to know which study you are referring to.

Again in regard to weight issue....i am of the opinion that gear should not be used solely to "maintain" a weight--> eating accordingly and training can help maintain the weight you gained on a 12 weeker. Those guys that do a cycle and then look like shit 3 weeks afterwards should be a thing of the past with the knowledge we have now of post cycle recovery.

 

[BigAndy69]

I usually stay on for less than half the year..a bulk cycle...12 weeks, and 2 smaller cut cycles.

 

[RoNiN]

I`m with you,16-20wks works great for me.

Same here. So far my best results came from a 20 week course of moderate amounts of test /deca. I'm currently in my 5th week since everything cleared out and my streangth levels are about 90-95% what they were at my peak while ON and as for size , i'm actually leaner and more muscluer now. Don't ask my why i can't really explain it since i should be fatter and skinnier but that is the case.

The only thing i can attribute it to is good clean diet and good training that is not much different from what i was doing when i was on. Plus high quality creatine , glutimine and vitamins.

 

[Nathan]

I usually stay on for less than half the year..a bulk cycle...12 weeks, and 2 smaller cut cycles.

Shut up Nancy pants.

I think it is all personal preference. I also think though that with the amount of gear competitors are using today it's hard to adequately keep up without a fair bit of gear as well, unless you have been lifting for a long damn time and have great genetics and even then it's tricky. I've tried a 16 week cycle once and didn't really like it though my gear was pretty much shit. I've tried 7 weeks and 8 weeks on my first two cycles and they worked very well. I'm like 11-12 weeks now though. I find though that for me, "off" time is somewhat harder since I am so prone to water retention. I always lose about 8 lbs coming off at least and it's mainly water. So, my joints start hurting even with MSM and I look and feel smaller. I'm getting better though. Don't judge damn you. BigAragorn: You gonna train with me over Christmas bitch?

 

[mvmaxx]

LOL that avatar fits you oh so well! ROFLMAO

 

[Latamier]

[Any more thoughts....those who advocate short use chime in please. More fuel to the fire as well--> Do those who cycle longer take in to account any health issues or the idea of body adaptation to gear use over longer periods? What are your takes on it? [/B][/QUOTE]

As far as body adaptation goes, I personally dont believe in it. Every cycle I have done has felt like the first. On very rare ocasion will I ever have to use more than 750mg of test per week. Unlike some of those that frontload first and then shoot a gram or more. My longer cycles are usually due to the fact that I have come to really enjoy the benifits of HGH, and dont believe that it is worth a damn to use it on a short cycle. As I said before, all my lab work is normal post cycle, and I would like to contribute that to the fact that I dont use rediculous ammounts of anabolics. I am in this for the long run, and Bigaragorn I truly hope that you get all the benefits and enjoyment that I have. Steroids have truly changed my life. If not for them I would be literally crippeled and in constant pain from injuries that I could not have recovered from.

 

[bigAragorn]

Shut up Nancy pants.

I think it is all personal preference. I also think though that with the amount of gear competitors are using today it's hard to adequately keep up without a fair bit of gear as well, unless you have been lifting for a long damn time and have great genetics and even then it's tricky. I've tried a 16 week cycle once and didn't really like it though my gear was pretty much shit. I've tried 7 weeks and 8 weeks on my first two cycles and they worked very well. I'm like 11-12 weeks now though. I find though that for me, "off" time is somewhat harder since I am so prone to water retention. I always lose about 8 lbs coming off at least and it's mainly water. So, my joints start hurting even with MSM and I look and feel smaller. I'm getting better though. Don't judge damn you. BigAragorn: You gonna train with me over Christmas bitch?

Definitely bro.....we'll go to the pulse and mac up any of the bitches that may be still around for the holidays......oh yeah baby you like my deadlift form oh yeah LOL

 

[bigAragorn]

[As far as body adaptation goes, I personally dont believe in it. Every cycle I have done has felt like the first. On very rare ocasion will I ever have to use more than 750mg of test per week. Unlike some of those that frontload first and then shoot a gram or more. My longer cycles are usually due to the fact that I have come to really enjoy the benifits of HGH, and dont believe that it is worth a damn to use it on a short cycle. As I said before, all my lab work is normal post cycle, and I would like to contribute that to the fact that I dont use rediculous ammounts of anabolics. I am in this for the long run, and Bigaragorn I truly hope that you get all the benefits and enjoyment that I have. Steroids have truly changed my life. If not for them I would be literally crippeled and in constant pain from injuries that I could not have recovered from.

yeah im kinda up in the air when it comes to body adaptation. On one hand it is why I chose to start with low doses over relatively shorter time spans (10-12 weeks) so that when i hit my fifth cycle i wont have to use 2 grams of gear a week. But there are always guys like you that come around and can shed some light on the other side of the coin.

On another note i hope i get the same benefits you have had

 

[bigAragorn]

Im currently finishing up my second cycle and i must say i am looking forward to post cycle recovery. I get real pumped up and enjoy working towards keeping my gains. Then i started thinking.......i have read alot about some of you intending to run "cycles" in which the duration is almost as long as a year. NOw this is not directed at everyone and i am certainly not judging here.

Looking for an open minded discussion. Isnt the point of being on gear solely to help push through plateaus? When i came off my first cycle i worked my ass off to keep the gains i had made and then for 3 months pushed through and even gained about 5 pounds of lean mass.

I guess i am wondering where the mindset of being on that long comes from. Anyone who has done so chime in with your pros and cons and your reasons for electing to run or to have run a longer cycle.

Looking back i made a few mistakes on that second cycle and because of that, have postponed my third cycle as i am still recovering from that 12 weeks of fina that took alot outta me. Anyone with changes of opinion or anythig to add almost 6 months later????

 

[Johnny Cut]

what were your mistakes

 

[bigAragorn]

what were your mistakes

definately stayed on fina too long. And i didnt stick to my original plan. I believe (i dont have my journal next to me) i intended to run 8 weeks of fina and finish with 4 weeks of dbol all while doing test throughout--> instead I dipped into my stock ( which included extra winny fina and test ) and upped my test dosage at like week 7 and added winny in like the 3rd week for 3 weeks and then ran the fina for 4 extra weeks.

Note to the wise--> NEVER EVER dip into your stock that youve saved up as you can run outta gear pretty quickly. Id say stick with your plan and see it through.....i'll never make that mistake again.

 

[bigAragorn]

I flat out don't want my body or mind to think being ON is the norm and being clean is bad.

good point. In order to do that i am of the opinion that one must be on less than they are off. Seems simple but throughout this thread i hear otherwise. I mean look at this statement....

Originally posted by me2dammnit:

"actually it has been proven in many studies that 6 motnhs straight use of gear gets the same "recovery phase" as a 12 week cycle.

Once you pass that 8-12 week period, you might as well stay on longer."

 

[Zoomster]

It really boils down to the individual and their goals.

Lifestyle plays a factor.

If someone is monitoring their health properly and they want to stay on for longer periods of time, then why not?

Some people tolerate AS much better than others. I once had a professional bodybuilder tell me that the difference between the winners and the losers is their ability to tolerate AS.

It really is all personal preference. I was natural for ever, I competed naturally and not in "Natural " contest, in the NPC. I pretty much pushed the envelope of what I could achieve. I was very proud of that. I recently started using AS and could not be happier with my results.

I don't subscribe to myths. I subscribe to facts. Some of you are convinced that staying on too long is bad! Maybe it would be for you. Maybe it's not for the one who is doing it. Maybe it is and they understand the risks.

 

[SicVic]

Re: Is Being OFF all that bad????????? The mindset behind running LOOOOONNNNGGG "cycl

yeah thats what im wondering. If I get a hormone test kit and monitor my testosterone levels, and they seem to not have surpressed, could I stay on untill shutdown?

 

[ppgfreak]

I started a 16 week Sustanon cycle last Friday. Didn't post about it because of the negative opinions on anything over 12.

Good friend of mine is a professional power lifter. I've watched him do 6 month "cycles" of 2,000mg a week of Sustanon. He does tell me that he probably won't live much past 40 though. But until then.....

Sent from my ADR6350 using EliteFitness

 

[-SD-]

Re: Is Being OFF all that bad????????? The mindset behind running LOOOOONNNNGGG "cycl

yeah thats what im wondering. If I get a hormone test kit and monitor my testosterone levels, and they seem to not have surpressed, could I stay on untill shutdown?

Do you like to wonder on 9 year old threads?
Cant bump threads this old bro

 

[RADAR]

Re: Is Being OFF all that bad????????? The mindset behind running LOOOOONNNNGGG "cycl

SD is is correct, start your own thread. Next time you get an infraction.