is 5x5 enough for squats?

[Island Son]

I'm throwing this out there

Coach's corner, Myth #7 Squats will make your butt big
http://www.usapowerlifting.com/newsletter/11/coaching/coaching.html
"In the case of having the big butt gene, squatting does not have to be eradicated from your program. Focus more on strength development by keeping the reps lower (5 and under) regardless of weight used. From my experience higher reps can put on the size when supported nutritionally."

We're trying to put on maximum muscle, right? So instead of 5x5 for chest/back/legs, we use our legs all day(unlike ANY other body part) so shouldn't we be working in the 10-15 rep range?

 

[liegelord]

While I believe from experience that both rep ranges will stimulate growth when lifting progressively heavier, when it comes to hypertrophy, load is king. Heavier loads should stimulate more growth.

 

[blut wump]

There are a couple of good articles on the different types of muscle fibres on these two articles. They might give you some insight into devising a routine.
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/muscletyping.html
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/fasttwitchmachine.html


In general, all else being equal, you need a variety of rep-ranges over time to develop your physique. You need to progress and that invlolves getting stronger and then you can load more on the bar which will help you to grow and get stronger still. It's generally accepted that a slightly higher rep range is more conducive to growth and a lower range more cunducive to strength via type II muscles and through neural adaptation which really means learning how to strain.

One of the reasons that the 5x5 program uses 5 reps as its base is that it's a good balance between high and low. At 4-6 reps, you're working all the types of muscle fibres without concentrating on any one type.

If you run an intensity phase as part of a dual factor version you spend the latter part of the program concentrating on strength but you should get some decent growth due to delayed adaptation from the volume phase.

Take a read of the articles. I found them interesting to get a better idea of what's happening under the skin.

 

[Protobuilder]

It's simple: do a higher-rep backoff set or two or even three after your 5x5 on squats. Gives you your heavy tension work (5x5) with some metabolic work (2x10-12). Problem solved.

 

[Island Son]

Yeah but I'm saying because the muscle and cns is used to high volume, 5 reps may not be the optimum range for strength/growth for this specific exercise.
For example, in my experience 5x5, even 3sets x10reps was completely useless for calf growth. Then i did the Nelson Montana thing and did 70-80 reps total, each set to failure with a 15-second rest, they grew.

 

[Island Son]

Lots of views on this post..... everyone is free to chime in

 

[Tweakle]

I don't think your CNS would get used to high volume.. just the opposite. Muscles might thrive on it, but you have limited recovery.

Work up to a top set, then do a backdown at either submax or the old fashioned 20 rep death set.

fwiw my legs were at their biggest (altho fattest) when I was doing maybe one or two worksets of 3-5 reps a week on the boxsquat and nothing else.

 

[Introspective]

in my experience 5x5, even 3sets x10reps was completely useless for calf growth.

Since i have been squatting on SF 5x5 my calves have grown alot.

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

There are a couple of good articles on the different types of muscle fibres on these two articles. They might give you some insight into devising a routine.
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/muscletyping.html
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/fasttwitchmachine.html


In general, all else being equal, you need a variety of rep-ranges over time to develop your physique. You need to progress and that invlolves getting stronger and then you can load more on the bar which will help you to grow and get stronger still. It's generally accepted that a slightly higher rep range is more conducive to growth and a lower range more cunducive to strength via type II muscles and through neural adaptation which really means learning how to strain.

One of the reasons that the 5x5 program uses 5 reps as its base is that it's a good balance between high and low. At 4-6 reps, you're working all the types of muscle fibres without concentrating on any one type.

If you run an intensity phase as part of a dual factor version you spend the latter part of the program concentrating on strength but you should get some decent growth due to delayed adaptation from the volume phase.

Take a read of the articles. I found them interesting to get a better idea of what's happening under the skin.

You can't focus on only one type of fiber. They're all generally going to come into play. Lifting for fiber type is a myth.

http://www.hypertrophy-specific.info/cgi-bin/ib314/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=13;t=4634

 

[blut wump]

Thanks for the link.

 

[fortunatesun]

We're trying to put on maximum muscle, right? So instead of 5x5 for chest/back/legs, we use our legs all day(unlike ANY other body part) so shouldn't we be working in the 10-15 rep range?

This is the Use/Disuse Principle. Even without weight training, if your legs are in constant use they adapt to the stress. If you were to use a wheelchair for a period of time, they would become de-trained and atrophy. Perhaps this is why compound exercises that involve your major and thus most often used muscle groups respond better to lower reps: the shock on your central nervous system needs to be more pronounced because they already exist is a state of higher training.

Even with lower rep schemes there is a process of neuromuscular adaptation. Best results are often obtained by providing a mix of low, moderate, and high reps in order to defeat this process.

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

This is the Use/Disuse Principle. Even without weight training, if your legs are in constant use they adapt to the stress. If you were to use a wheelchair for a period of time, they would become de-trained and atrophy. Perhaps this is why compound exercises that involve your major and thus most often used muscle groups respond better to lower reps: the shock on your central nervous system needs to be more pronounced because they already exist is a state of higher training.

Even with lower rep schemes there is a process of neuromuscular adaptation. Best results are often obtained by providing a mix of low, moderate, and high reps in order to defeat this process.

I don't think it's anything that complex.