Insulin spiking 101

[MR. BMJ]

Here's the GI site that I like:
http://www.mendosa.com/gilists.htm

I don't know what the exact GI rating of grape juice is, but that 60-70 range might be pretty accurate considering that High Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS) is averaged at a GI rating of 62(glucose index), and it is the major sugar/sweetener in grape juice.
MR. BMJ

 

[biggun]

i'm confused, maltodextrin has a higher gi than dextrose, but i have always heard that dextrose causes a bigger insulin spike, how is that possible? if i were to use 75 grams of dextrose in one post workout formula and 75 grams of maltodextrin in another, wich would cause a greater insulin spike? or should i combine the two?

 

[gUiLe]

MR.BMJ, So, in your opinion, what is the BEST
post-workout strategy? Are you saying you take in no more then say 50 grams of high GI
carbs post workout? What do you recommend for
a post workout drink? And how long after your
immediate Ultra fuel, do you eat your post
workout meal? 30 min?

 

[MR. BMJ]

I drink my ultra fuel right after my workout, then when I get home, I drink my protein mixed with water. My protein intake is around 105 grams. As for carbs, I usually take my bodyweight and multiply it by 1.5. This gives me the gram amount. So a 200lb person would take in 300grams. I then subtract this amount from my daily caloric intake (bulking).

As to which sugars/foods are best for post-workout, I get good results from both sucrose and glucose so I usually just have either an Ultra Fuel or grape juice. I have never really used maltodextrin.

Dan Duchaine was asked this very same question, and here is his response: (kind of long)
"The answer might surprise you. Logically, you would think that since you want to drive as much glucose as possible into the muscle cells, you should pick foods that cause the highest insulin response. A few years ago (this question/answer was written in 1997) scientists measured the rate glycogen is deposited in muscle in athletes (runners) after a workout. They tried glucose, sucrose, and fructose. Insulin secretion is correlated with a particular food's glycemic index. Years ago glucose had the top score of 100. Today, the new glycemic index has readjusted glucose to a rating of 137 and white bread to the rating of 100.
I described all of this because, in the above study, slightly more glycogen was deposited with a sucrose beverage (GI of 92) than with the higher insulinogenic glucose. I have mentioned in my book BODYOPUS that little insulin is needed to transport blood glucose into muscle to stimulate the subsequent enzyme-driven reactions that convert glucose to glycogen. Why didn't glucose outperform sucrose as expected? It's possible that with glucose, the higher amount of insulin in the bloodstream is diverted to other cells (e.g. fat cells), in addition to muscle cells. With sucrose, there may be just the right amount of insulin to optimally deposit muscle glycogen without "spilling over" into the fat cells.
The simple answer to your query of finding the best carb source would be "sucrose." But maybe other carbohydrate sources within the same glycemic ballpark as sucrose would work as well. Here are some food choices in the glycemic range between 90 and 95:
*Boxed macaroni and cheese (92)
*Canned black bean soup (92)
*Steamed potatoes (93)
*Instant premium white rice (94)
*Canned Pineapple (94)
*Canned pea soup (94)
*Angel food cake (95)

As you can see, you are not locked into pricey sports-carb drinks. Many of your choices are complex carbohydrates, and some of the selections are surprising. Who would have thought that the bodybuilding staples potatoes and rice would be about as good as angel food cake. Actually, since angel food cake has nice amounts of egg whites, the cake has a better protein content than rice or potatoes.
Much of the early research on glycogen replenishment rates was done by scientists who assumed liquid simple sugars would be the best choice because of their high glycemic ratings. I wonder if scientists would use macaroni and cheese since it has the same glycemic index as sucrose? What's strange is macaroni, without the cheese has a glycemic index of around 65!"

Whew.....this article like I mentioned at the beginning was printed in 1997, so it is already 6 years old. Also, there have been a lot of studies since then that show both intervening conclusions of which is better out of sucrose and glucose. This Duchaine answer will help people that cannot access the common sports drinks that are available to others. Personally, I still use glucose drinks, but I have gotten great results using both. I just love the taste of them Ultra Fuel drinks....they're so damn good! I have used macaroni and cheese as a post workout meal and have gotten great results too, plus it has adequate amounts of protein already included within it. Dan mentioned the angel food cake too.
MR. BMJ

 

[MR. BMJ]

Wooops....need to make a correction here, I don't know what I was thinking. My post workout carb intake is 1.5 X MY BODYWEIGHT IN KG. Therefore, a 200lb person would weigh 91kg. 91kg X 1.5 = 136.5 grams (546 calories). My protein intake for my post workout meal is usually 30-50% of my protein intake for the day. I try to get in around 1.5-2.0 grams of protein/lb of bodyweight for the day (it varies on my diet).
MR. BMJ

 

[gUiLe]

Mr.BMJ- Thanks for the very complete answer!
I will give Ultra Fuel a try for myself. Very
interesting stuff man. Thanks again for the
detailed explanation.

 

[emmab]

what is Ultra Fuel..who makes it?

 

[gUiLe]

Mr.BMJ, I just couldn't get one thing out
of my head last night, remembering this post.
A box of macaroni & cheese as a postworkout
high gi meal? I LOVE this stuff, but NEVER
eat it (and I mean NEVER)! Out of curiosity
last night, I looked at the back of the box.
Bro, the box (Kraft Deluxe, my kid eats it) is like 1000 calories!! With 150 grams of
carbs, 45 grams of Protein and (get this)
39 grams of fat! With another 18 grams of
saturated fat! I know that Dan is/was considerd to be somewhat of an athority on
bodybuilding (roids and diet science) but
I can't see how eating a box of this after
a workout would be too good for you. Please,
convince me! I would LOVE to eat a box of that shit after a hard workout!!! Damn it's
good!!! Instead of some parmasean cheese, I
will just sprinkle some creatine on top

 

[MR. BMJ]

The mac and cheese that I think was used was the boxed brand. Also, it was probably the mac and cheese that uses the powdered cheese that you have to stir in, not the thickened "squeeze out of the packet" cheese. I don't have any mac and cheese here so I can't get too precise. Also, I think that most brands have the fat calories from the 2% milk and butter added in with their nutritional calorie content on the box. All you have to do is use nonfat milk and no butter, which will bring down the fat total. This may have been what they did when testing for the GI ratings. But then again, I don't know. If I have time, i'll try to see if I can find out, unless somebody else here knows. Don't forget to look at the serving sizes too.
MR. BMJ

 

[gUiLe]

I think that makes more sense to me. The powder stuff is nasty, so I guess I wont be
missing anything. Maybe, as a change, I will
try it once in a while. My mom use to make that shit for me when I was a kid and I loved it!!