Insulin spiking 101

[emmab]

good grief, this has got very technical and I am no less confused. I have also read that vanadyl increases the absorption of proteins and carbs into the muscle, so does taking that mean you can eat less carbs post-workout as the insulin spike is not as needed?

 

[Nathan]

That's some good info guys. Thanks. How much fructose does grape juice have in it? I'd like to minimize the fructose in my post-workout drink without spending too much.

 

[chillin408]

grape juice is higher in glucose, im not sure exactly what the percentages are, i am looking for a site that has this info i found this one site that may but u have to downlaod the info,and my dsl isnt working so im not even gonna try right now

 

[Belial]

Mr BMJ- i thought the carbs meant to be taken WITH protein; taking the protein with the carbs not only refills the glycogen, but the following insulin spike is the ideal environment for maximum nutrient absorption. Everything I've read has stated to do both at more or less the same time (cabrs and protein)

 

[MR. BMJ]

Originally posted by chillin408:
i use to buy metrx MRP's, they are thick and taste good and i feel full. But they only have i think 2 grams of fat and probably 1 gram or less of fiber per package. But they still seem to keep me full for along time. Do you know why this is?
If i were to have the same amount amount of carbs using grape juice as carb source,whey protein ,and 2 grams of fat from flax oil,i bet u i would not feel full and i would feel weak and probably eat again an hour later?

can u please expand on #5. I thought it doesn't matter if their mono di,tri,etc sacchides. Because glucose and glucose polymers have the same GI,and this goes back the assumption that if a carb is complex(Polymers) that it takes longer to digest. But maybe it does matter in other cases and im forgeting and/or missing something?? if so please correct it

since you offered to go into more detial about #3 "I will go into more detail if needed.", can u please do so,im interested

oh yea just wanted to ask,i hear caseinates are slow digesting,do u know why this is? also could this be one of the reasons for the mrp making me feel full? metrx uses caseinates as 1 of 4 or 5 different protein sources( i forgot the exact about but around 4 or 5). Are caseinates that potent as digestive slower,or is it just overhyped to sell more?

last thing,about # 5,i wanted to ask about dextrose versus maltodextrins. do u know why maltodextrins are usually part of post workout formulas instead of dextrose?
ok is this how it works?.... once u take eat glucose after your workout to replish glycogen, it goes into your muscle and stores as glucose polymers in your muscles,i was i wondering,if u eat maltodextrins ,does it go straight into your muscles as glycogen or does it get broken down into monmer units first then store,so then dextrose would be better? or maybe im missing some steps or something,can someone clear this up

also their was a thread about 3 types of sugars,but i cant find it,it dissepeared it was a great thread. someone posted something along the lines that some glucose polymers depending on length may not be broken down into monmer units i was wondering if anyone remembered the rest of it?im sure im forgeting what that guy said because i cant access that thread anymore,so if thats the case are they just tookin in your muscles or what happens? ok i know this isnt really significant but just wondering

[This message has been edited by chillin408 (edited April 10, 2001).]

#3.) Amylose and Amylopectin:
Most starches are mixtures of these 2 types and contain approximately 17-28% amylose and 72-83% amylopectin. This can also change with cooking conditions.
AMYLOSE--is an unbranched chain of approximately 600 or more glucose units. Try to think of it as a straight chain of glucose molecules that look like this:

0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0

Heres how duchaine describes this molecule:
"Amylose is broken down slowly from the ends, like it is being eaten by Pac Man in slow motion." Amylose is also called "resistant starch" because only about 40% can be digested. The higher the amylose content, the lower the GI ratings. It is not easily fermented. The exact size of the molecule will vary depending on the plant source and its maturity. Amylose is found in high concentrations in rice (~28%) and wheat flour. In these cereal grains, the amylose chain is shorter than that found in the root starches.

Amylopectin--The more complex starch, has a structure that looks like this (hopefully this comes out right ?):
0
1
0
1
0
1
0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0
1
0
1
0
1
0

Every 4 or so glucose molecules, the chain branches. "In this structure, our Pac Man-like enzymes can chomp away at the end of every glucose chain. There is more exposed area for the enzymes to attack, so amylopectins generally are digested faster and therefore have higher GI ratings. There is one instance when this isn't true. Some new maltodextrins (usually fragmented amylose) are reduced amylopectins. A straight chain maltodextrin has a high GI, but a branched-chain maltodextrin has a lowewr GI, which is why I like to use them in diet meal-replacement powders. (This might answer some of your #5 question too, and it may explain why Met-Rx makes you fuller).
Amylopectins are highly branched-chain polysaccharides varying from approximately 600-1500 glucose units. Foods containing primarily amylopectin starch include potatos, tapioca, and waxy cornstarch.

The fiber in brown rice is no great impediment to digestion, so picking a brown rice is not as important as identifying the amylose to amylopectin ratio. Long-grain rice has more amylose than other varieties.
Let me see what I got so far, and I will answer the other questions.
MR. BMJ
All right, my amylopectin stucture didn't turn out, so i'll describe it. The linear portions of the molecule are linked together with alpha1,4 units, but at every 20-25 glucose units, the molecules are joined by alpha1,6 linkages. Just think of it as a plus sign (+).
MR. BMJ

[This message has been edited by MR. BMJ (edited April 11, 2001).]

 

[MR. BMJ]

Sugar composition: Mono/di/poly's/oligo's/etc....

All of these sugars will eventually get broken down as glucose in the body and be stored as glycogen in the liver, muscles anf fat, etc.... There are 3 types of monosaccharides, they are glucose, fructose, and galactose (you could count the pentose carbon molecules like ribose, arabinose, and xylose, if you wanted, but i'll stick to the main 3 for now). Fructose and galactose are slow digesting mono's because they undergo different absorption pathways,etc. Now, the Disaccharides like sucrose (1 glucose molecule and 1 fructose molecule), Maltose (double glucose molecule), and Lactose (1 galactose molecule and 1 glucose molecule) will have a slower GI (except for maltose, due to surface area). The reason for a disaccharide like sucrose (table sugar) having a lower GI rating than glucose is because it is also half Fructose, which as mentioned previously, has a low GI rating. This trend will vary depending on the the quantity and types of bonds that are formed. As mentioned earlier, a starch molecule of amylose will have up to 600 and more glucose units. Maltodextrins, depending on whether they are branched or straight molecule will have varying GI ratings.
This was a real basic explanation, but hopefullyt it helps some.
MR. BMJ

[This message has been edited by MR. BMJ (edited April 11, 2001).]

 

[MR. BMJ]

***DEXTROSE, is just another name for glucose. They are the same.

***Hopefully I explained it well enough to point out that some "complex" carbs will not always be slow digesting carbs (maltodextrins, etc). This is why most people do not really express a carb digestion rates by these terms anymore. They refer to their GI's. Some complex carbs in structure will actually have high/quick GI's.

Caseinate? I am not too familiar with the in gredients in Met-Rx, and there are too many things to factor in that will affect the GI/digestion rate of it being absorbed by the body. BUT, generally, caseinates are slow digesting proteins because they curdle into a solid in the stomach and need further digestion to liquefy before it enters the small intestine.
MR. BMJ

 

[MR. BMJ]

About the grape juice, here is a link that may answer your question on it:
http://www.elitefitness.com/ubb/Archives/Forum4/03-2001/000818.html

MR. BMJ

Belial--Like I said, you may be able to get away with having whey proetein with your carb drink after a workout without it ruining the GI rating. But, whey will be the only protein you could use that may or may not effect the purpose of the post-workout drink. Remember, the main thing you are trying to replenish after a workout is glycogen levels. Taking a whole protein, casein, etc...will ruin the purpose of a high GI carb and its benefits on shuttling nutrients into the muscles and body while the hormonal conditions are beneficial. Whey is a question mark since it is rather insulinegenic (and i'm not talking about it being gluconeogenic). I would rather get the benefits of glycogen compensation before adding in a protein which might effect the absorption rate. But I do drink my whey before an hour (actually more like 30 minutes like I mentioned).
MR. BMJ

 

[Belial]

Gotcha. Makes a lot of sense. My post-workout drink is usually 75 grams of carbs and 1.5 scoops of isopure (38 grams protein)

File ----> Save as.

(Good thread)

 

[chillin408]

great info, do you know of a site which gives accurate GI ratings

about grape juice, how much percent of grape juice is glucose, the GI index on this site lists grape somewhere around 60-70,so my instinct has been its somewhere near 50/50,but im probably thinking wrong,do u know?