injectable test instead of gel

[njmuscleguy]

Hey folks,

So I finally saw an endo this morning and talked to him about my low test situation. I've done a few cycles in the past few years, but nothing crazy. I've had low test levels for years longer. I actually discussed my A A S use with the doctor and he didn't flinch. He's ordering up bloodwork (tomorrow) and possible MRI of pituitary. He discussed the potential of testosterone replacement if it's primary hypogonadism or other "hormone therapy" if it's secondary hypogonadism (assuming clomid?). I've ran clomid a handful of times before and I've never "recovered". So hopefully we bypass that and start test therapy.

My question is, the doctor mentioned test gel... I've read about people's experiences with the gel and it doesn't sound promising. So should I ask him to prescribe the injectable instead of the gel? Or is there another alternative? How can I go about convincing him? I don't want to make it seem like I'm an A A S junky, but I want to use the option that seems to work best. Any recommendations?


Thanks!

 

[Primordial Performance]

Hey folks,

So I finally saw an endo this morning and talked to him about my low test situation. I've done a few cycles in the past few years, but nothing crazy. I've had low test levels for years longer. I actually discussed my A A S use with the doctor and he didn't flinch. He's ordering up bloodwork (tomorrow) and possible MRI of pituitary. He discussed the potential of testosterone replacement if it's primary hypogonadism or other "hormone therapy" if it's secondary hypogonadism (assuming clomid?). I've ran clomid a handful of times before and I've never "recovered". So hopefully we bypass that and start test therapy.

My question is, the doctor mentioned test gel... I've read about people's experiences with the gel and it doesn't sound promising. So should I ask him to prescribe the injectable instead of the gel? Or is there another alternative? How can I go about convincing him? I don't want to make it seem like I'm an A A S junky, but I want to use the option that seems to work best. Any recommendations?


Thanks!

Testim and Androgel will gradually become less effective because they are basic hydro-alcohol gels which will eventually dry out the skin and inhibit their own effectiveness. So, injections are best for long-term HRT… unless you can get ahold of a more advanced topical carrier than the androgel or testim.

-Pp

 

[njmuscleguy]

That's good advice... so if the doctor recommends HRT, will that argument be good enough to convince him to prescribe injectable instead? Plus I would think since I have no problem with injecting, it would make more sense?

 

[Primordial Performance]

That's good advice... so if the doctor recommends HRT, will that argument be good enough to convince him to prescribe injectable instead? Plus I would think since I have no problem with injecting, it would make more sense?

Yes, if you have no problem with injection its probably better.

If you decide to use Test Enanthate make sure to do 2x a week shots.

-Pp

 

[5150guy]

Testim and Androgel will gradually become less effective because they are basic hydro-alcohol gels which will eventually dry out the skin and inhibit their own effectiveness. So, injections are best for long-term HRT… unless you can get ahold of a more advanced topical carrier than the androgel or testim.

-Pp

What are you basing your claims on? Do you have any studies to base your claims? I have been using androgel for over three years, and i have not had any drying and my lab results do not support your hypothesis. Also, compounding phamacies make T creams that could be used as well which do not use any alcohol based gels.


The goal of true TRT is a steady state release that approximates how the body would produce its own T if it could. At the same time, the goal is to minimise aromatization of T in to E2. Granted gels will not duplicate the circadian rhythym of the hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - , but they do a much better job than do shots.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/85/12/4500.pdf 180 days of androgel use with no significant decrease in serum T levels

http://lib.bioinfo.pl/pmid:16188729

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2005.20231.x

 

[Primordial Performance]

What are you basing your claims on? Do you have any studies to base your claims? I have been using androgel for over three years, and i have not had any drying and my lab results do not support your hypothesis. Also, compounding phamacies make T creams that could be used as well which do not use any alcohol based gels.


The goal of true TRT is a steady state release that approximates how the body would produce its own T if it could. At the same time, the goal is to minimise aromatization of T in to E2. Granted gels will not duplicate the circadian rhythym of the hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - , but they do a much better job than do shots.

Look at the MSDS for ethanol – repeated exposure causes drying of the skin (dermatitis)

Even though this may not become a visible dryness or irritation, it will happen on a cellular levels. The skin does become resistant to permeation on such a basic hydro-alcohol gel as androgel which lacks any therapeutic, moisturizing or anti-oxidant value to the skin. Of course, if you rotate application areas you can mostly avoid this problem.

We use ethanol in our topical, but we include aloe vera, vitamin E, squalane, oleic acid, and a host of other ingredients which preserve the integrity of the skin. This raises production costs significantly which is why you don’t see these “botanicals” in a pharm grade product like androgel or testm.

Are you telling me you have maintained the same T value over the last 3 years on the same dose of androgel without the use of other TRT drugs? What are your values?

-Pp

 

[r1]

nj: I was on Androderm (Test patch) and then Androgel (Test gel) before going on Test Cypionate (injectable). I lasted about 2 weeks on Androderm and got terrible itchy welts wherever I put the patch. After a few weeks, the gel also started irritating my skin.

Gels more readily convert to dihydrotestosterone. This can become a problem if you are prone to hair loss. Most docs will not go above 10g (2 packs) of Androgel because of this problem (and also because you basically have to cover yourself from head to toe if you're using 2 packs!) If you can't get into an acceptable T range on gels, shots are generally your next option.

Injection pain aside, I like the injections simply because it easy and convenient to make dosage changes.

It took me awhile to build trust with my first HRT doc. I came in once a week for the shots. After that, he sent 2 2mL vials of Depotestosterone (200mg/mL) to my house per month. After a few months, he was ok with giving me a 10mL vial.

If your doc is starting you on gels, it might be worth it to work with him and try to steer your therapy towards injections vs trying to change his mind in the beginning. It's hard enough these days to find a doc that is open to TRT.

R1

 

[halfcenturian]

Tell your Dr. you LOVE the way AndrGel makes you feel... Thank him repeatedly. Then say, The only problem is I sweat it off and it's kind of messy...Can it be injected... I'm not afraid of needles.

If you are lucky he will prescribe a low dose to inject... then you are off to the races. You can increase dose and get a REAL test boost.

 

[njmuscleguy]

nj: I was on Androderm (Test patch) and then Androgel (Test gel) before going on Test Cypionate (injectable). I lasted about 2 weeks on Androderm and got terrible itchy welts wherever I put the patch. After a few weeks, the gel also started irritating my skin.

Gels more readily convert to dihydrotestosterone. This can become a problem if you are prone to hair loss. Most docs will not go above 10g (2 packs) of Androgel because of this problem (and also because you basically have to cover yourself from head to toe if you're using 2 packs!) If you can't get into an acceptable T range on gels, shots are generally your next option.

Injection pain aside, I like the injections simply because it easy and convenient to make dosage changes.

It took me awhile to build trust with my first HRT doc. I came in once a week for the shots. After that, he sent 2 2mL vials of Depotestosterone (200mg/mL) to my house per month. After a few months, he was ok with giving me a 10mL vial.

If your doc is starting you on gels, it might be worth it to work with him and try to steer your therapy towards injections vs trying to change his mind in the beginning. It's hard enough these days to find a doc that is open to TRT.

R1

Thanks for the info, and for the suggestions!

 

[njmuscleguy]

Tell your Dr. you LOVE the way AndrGel makes you feel... Thank him repeatedly. Then say, The only problem is I sweat it off and it's kind of messy...Can it be injected... I'm not afraid of needles.

If you are lucky he will prescribe a low dose to inject... then you are off to the races. You can increase dose and get a REAL test boost.

I actually asked him that during my first visit - I told him I sweat constantly and I'd be concerned about the gel. He replied that it dries / absorbs quickly. I just left it at that. I also told him about my A A S use so he knows I'm not afraid of needles. I was thinking I would talk with him about the pro's and cons of each method and see if I could subtly steer him towards injectable.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[5150guy]

nj: I was on Androderm (Test patch) and then Androgel (Test gel) before going on Test Cypionate (injectable). I lasted about 2 weeks on Androderm and got terrible itchy welts wherever I put the patch. After a few weeks, the gel also started irritating my skin.

Gels more readily convert to dihydrotestosterone. This can become a problem if you are prone to hair loss. Most docs will not go above 10g (2 packs) of Androgel because of this problem (and also because you basically have to cover yourself from head to toe if you're using 2 packs!) If you can't get into an acceptable T range on gels, shots are generally your next option.

Injection pain aside, I like the injections simply because it easy and convenient to make dosage changes.

It took me awhile to build trust with my first HRT doc. I came in once a week for the shots. After that, he sent 2 2mL vials of Depotestosterone (200mg/mL) to my house per month. After a few months, he was ok with giving me a 10mL vial.

If your doc is starting you on gels, it might be worth it to work with him and try to steer your therapy towards injections vs trying to change his mind in the beginning. It's hard enough these days to find a doc that is open to TRT.

R1

Very few people have had good results with the patches due to skin irritations. After a month you have a hard time finding a clean unirritated area to apply the patch to.

As for the gels such as androgel or testim or even a compounded cream preparation, I have yet to see a Doctor who prescribes more than one tube or packet of gel to specify that you put them on at the same time of the day. If a doctor Rx's multiple doses of gel, they are likely going to prescribe one 5 gm tube in the am and one 5 g tube in the pm. Applying both tubes at the same time of the day, defeats the purpose and steady state release of using gels in the first place.

Given that you are going to find few if any legitimate TRT doctors who are going to boost your levels above 800-1000, two 5gm or two 7.5 gm (pumps) is about all that a given Doc is going to Rx for you.

Given that the aim of TRT is to approximate the manner and rate in which the body manufactures and releases its own Testosterone, Gels generally give a more natural and consistent release than do shots. Pellets have the most consistent release rate and thus some doctors like using them as they also tend to keep aromatization to a minimum.

Shots tend to give considerable peaks and dips in blood T levels, and peaks tend to bring on aromatization of T to E2.

No method of TRT is going to match the body's circadian rhythm, and no legit TRT doctor is going to let a man have supra-physiologic T levels (1200 plus) while on TRT

One of the new authorities on TRT is Dr. Chrisler DO. He posts a lot of material on TRT on the all things male web site.

 

[thelion2005]

Hey folks,

So I finally saw an endo this morning and talked to him about my low test situation. I've done a few cycles in the past few years, but nothing crazy. I've had low test levels for years longer. I actually discussed my A A S use with the doctor and he didn't flinch. He's ordering up bloodwork (tomorrow) and possible MRI of pituitary. He discussed the potential of testosterone replacement if it's primary hypogonadism or other "hormone therapy" if it's secondary hypogonadism (assuming clomid?). I've ran clomid a handful of times before and I've never "recovered". So hopefully we bypass that and start test therapy.

My question is, the doctor mentioned test gel... I've read about people's experiences with the gel and it doesn't sound promising. So should I ask him to prescribe the injectable instead of the gel? Or is there another alternative? How can I go about convincing him? I don't want to make it seem like I'm an A A S junky, but I want to use the option that seems to work best. Any recommendations?


Thanks!

Androgel works and I never had any skin problems. I could feel it kick in and sometimes it was a rough ride during the day.

Bio-identical topical worked and was very smooth. I needed less sleep and was a bit hyper. Lost weight.

Injections seem the best. I've done sust, test e and c and lots of test p. P Farmak is my fav. I can push it through a very fine pin and I pick up muscle.

For a cycle, I just add a nandro and an oral and away I go.

 

[njmuscleguy]

Well everyone.... the bloodwork that my new endo ordered up is back... the doctor called me up today and said my test levels came back "normal", at 397. He said everything else was normal as well except for the FSH, which was slightly elevated but nothing to be concerned about. He feels that HRT isn't warranted - at the same time, he has no idea as to why I'm having the symptoms of low test (and for 10 years now). I'm healthy otherwise. He basically had no recommendations other than to get retested several times and see if there was some sort of consistency - if my test levels come out much lower than 397 several times, he will consider HRT - he said anything lower than 100 in his book is considered "low" - IS HE KIDDING ME??

At this point, I'm not sure what I want to do - my bloodwork has fluctuated between 175 and 400 in the past 5 years or so (even before starting A A S) - it's not gonna get any better than this, and I don't want to continue feeling run down all the time, and having my workouts suffer. I think I'll get tested one more time in the next week or so. After that, I will either get a second opinion, start another cycle, or consider self-imposed H R T (which I would prefer not to).

If anyone has any thoughts or feedback, I'm all ears/eyes!

thanks everyone!

 

[sman275]

Well everyone.... the bloodwork that my new endo ordered up is back... the doctor called me up today and said my test levels came back "normal", at 397. He said everything else was normal as well except for the FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - - follicle stimulating hormone - , which was slightly elevated but nothing to be concerned about. He feels that HRT isn't warranted - at the same time, he has no idea as to why I'm having the symptoms of low test (and for 10 years now). I'm healthy otherwise. He basically had no recommendations other than to get retested several times and see if there was some sort of consistency - if my test levels come out much lower than 397 several times, he will consider HRT - he said anything lower than 100 in his book is considered "low" - IS HE KIDDING ME??

At this point, I'm not sure what I want to do - my bloodwork has fluctuated between 175 and 400 in the past 5 years or so (even before starting A A S) - it's not gonna get any better than this, and I don't want to continue feeling run down all the time, and having my workouts suffer. I think I'll get tested one more time in the next week or so. After that, I will either get a second opinion, start another cycle, or consider self-imposed H R T (which I would prefer not to).

If anyone has any thoughts or feedback, I'm all ears/eyes!

thanks everyone!

Well, you could crash your levels before testing? It's pretty easy!
I was @ 300, but tested @ 115 highest (comprehensive saliva test)!
Just crash your own production.... No sleep for 3 days, add alcohol &
Licorise root, eat little, and get tested (Blood) in pm. Just do some research.
Good luck!

 

[Clayman14]

Find a new Dr. I was tested at 450 and was told that I should use TRT. I'm on
the andro gel, but and the DR. will be going to Injections soon.

 

[njmuscleguy]

Can anyone recommend a good HRT/TRT doctor in the NYC area or even one that does virtual consultations? Preferably not some quack online anti-aging clinic (and besides Dr. John Crisler - I dunno if I trust him - too much controversy around him)

 

[njmuscleguy]

So I just talked to my endo again - what a jerk - talked to me with an attitude the whole time. I asked him if he thought adrenal fatigue was a possibility - he said cortisol and DHEA came back perfectly normal - I asked him if it was better to test cortisol 4x's a day (saliva tests) and he said no, that AM test was best indicator and that there is alot of "hocus pocus" out there, so I need to be careful what I read.

I asked about hypothyroidism, etc. He said my thyroid panel came back normal, though I don't know exactly what he tested.

I asked if he tested estrogen levels and he said indignantly that if my test levels came back normal, there would be no need to test E levels.

He holds firm that my total test was normal at 397, he considers 300 "low", and HRT is not warranted for me. He also said he has no other thoughts as to why I have the same symptoms as "low test".

He's sending me another form for bloodwork - I'm gonna get tested tomorrow morning and see what happens. I'm gonna find another doctor, this guy is a dead-end.

 

[thelion2005]

So I just talked to my endo again - what a jerk - talked to me with an attitude the whole time. I asked him if he thought adrenal fatigue was a possibility - he said cortisol and DHEA came back perfectly normal - I asked him if it was better to test cortisol 4x's a day (saliva tests) and he said no, that AM test was best indicator and that there is alot of "hocus pocus" out there, so I need to be careful what I read.

I asked about hypothyroidism, etc. He said my thyroid panel came back normal, though I don't know exactly what he tested.

I asked if he tested estrogen levels and he said indignantly that if my test levels came back normal, there would be no need to testosterone enanthate levels.

He holds firm that my total test was normal at 397, he considers 300 "low", and HRT is not warranted for me. He also said he has no other thoughts as to why I have the same symptoms as "low test".

He's sending me another form for bloodwork - I'm gonna get tested tomorrow morning and see what happens. I'm gonna find another doctor, this guy is a dead-end.

This Dr's reaction and lack of info is typical. I posted some guidelines once on designing your own HRT program. All it takes is:
- Any kind of test. 100 mg per week.
- 0.5 mg of a-dex twice a week
- 1 iu of HGH
- A diet with lots of slow carbs and proteins
- A solid workout routine
- Recovery every day
- Some multi vits, whey and creatine
- Blood testing a minimum of twice a year

Think about it.

 

[njmuscleguy]

I have no problem putting myself on HRT, including having my own bloodwork done (even though it's nice having insurance pay for it)... however, there's somewhat of a feeling of comfort knowing that a doctor is overseeing how your body is doing (even if he's clueless about A A S)

 

[sman275]

I have no problem putting myself on HRT, including having my own bloodwork done (even though it's nice having insurance pay for it)... however, there's somewhat of a feeling of comfort knowing that a doctor is overseeing how your body is doing (even if he's clueless about A A S)

Have the blood work done yourself and turn it in to your ins. co.

I have a friend who laughed @ me when I told him I was going to crash my own production before taking the test. This is the same friend who went to
see my HRT Dr. three weeks later attempting to get "ON the plan"........

Well.... He did not crash his own system and tested blood at 9 am after
a good 10 hr sleep. He tested 410 and is not going to receive a thing from
the same Dr.! Now he is mad. Dr's have to watch everything these days. I am sure that he is getting monitored by some agency. He is ordering enough cyp. to sink a battle ship! If the tests come back high your just screwed. Alter your results, do some short acting 4 week cycles (prop,tren a, var) and pass every blood test they give you. Just got
to figure how to manipulate you t levels with short ester gear for short periods.

 

[njmuscleguy]

I get the "crash before you test" theory, but here's my concern... a "good" doctor would check more than just test levels before considering HRT... if everything is all out of whack as a result of taking some A A S prior to the test, won't the doctor pick up on that? For example, if cholesterol, liver enzymes, RBC, F S H, L H, etc etc are all out of range, wouldn't that just scream out "HEY, I JUST RAN A CYCLE!"

 

[sman275]

I have been clean for around 5 years. So my blood work was looking good!

Probably, But you get the whole panel done at the beg. and only do
blood levels every 6wks or 3 mo. I just went back for my first follow up.
To start off.-------I decided to run 300 mg. Cyp for 3 weeks,
100 mg wk 4, 100 mg wk 5, 0 week 6 until after having the blood work then
start mini cycle of Prop, tren a, and var for 4 wks. then I will just do 100mg
of cyp week 5, 100 mg on week 6, blood test, etc.......

I am hoping that the fast acting gear will clear quickly and that 100 mg of cyp. will just keep my levels up. If I test to high, I will just tell him that I took the shot the day before testing. BUT actually, it was taken 7 days before!

 

[njmuscleguy]

Update:

So I saw a new doctor... went through the entire spiel with him... he admitted that he wasn't an "expert" in HRT, but he has been treating several patients with test gel. At the very least, he was attentive and compassionate, attributes I haven't found in the previous doctors I've seen about this issue. He looked at my previous bloodwork ran in the past couple years. Before agreeing to any kind of treatment, he wanted to do some research on his own to make sure that all bases were covered with bloodwork and that he wasn't missing anything. He also wanted to make sure that there was no other factors involved other than simply having naturally low test. I respect that.

He's putting me on androgel for now, 5mg... he called this "new therapy", as opposed to "injecting every 2 weeks"... I thought that was amusing. He did say however, he'd eventually leave it up to me if I prefer a different method of administering it and he's flexible with dosage until we get to a "normal healthy" range in which I feel good again. Follow-up bloodwork in a month, then another visit in 3 months. All in all, no complaints!

 

[liftr486]

Update:

So I saw a new doctor... went through the entire spiel with him... he admitted that he wasn't an "expert" in HRT, but he has been treating several patients with test gel. At the very least, he was attentive and compassionate, attributes I haven't found in the previous doctors I've seen about this issue. He looked at my previous bloodwork ran in the past couple years. Before agreeing to any kind of treatment, he wanted to do some research on his own to make sure that all bases were covered with bloodwork and that he wasn't missing anything. He also wanted to make sure that there was no other factors involved other than simply having naturally low test. I respect that.

He's putting me on androgel for now, 5mg... he called this "new therapy", as opposed to "injecting every 2 weeks"... I thought that was amusing. He did say however, he'd eventually leave it up to me if I prefer a different method of administering it and he's flexible with dosage until we get to a "normal healthy" range in which I feel good again. Follow-up bloodwork in a month, then another visit in 3 months. All in all, no complaints!

glad to hear...i just started doing test cyp at 100mg ew with blood test in one month..hopefully it wont bring me too high on the healthy range or the doc will bump me down.

keep us posted on the androgel...i was seriously considering it before but opted for the injectable.

 

[njmuscleguy]

glad to hear...i just started doing test cyp at 100mg ew with blood test in one month..hopefully it wont bring me too high on the healthy range or the doc will bump me down.

keep us posted on the androgel...i was seriously considering it before but opted for the injectable.

You do the same bro...

I'm gonna take this slow and steady.... I didn't want to rush into the injectable and have him think I'm jonesing for "steroids".. we had that discussion at the start, he expressed how doctors are all worried now about prescribing test in general....I assured him that if I was looking for steroids, I could get that elsewhere...I want HRT. That made him happy. I'll see how 5g of the androgel works for now... maybe adjust the dosage in a month if necessary...and then if that isn't working for me, I'll ask him to switch to injectable...he said he wouldn't have a problem with that and would likely even allow me to do it myself. Good luck bro!

 

[5150guy]

Well, you could crash your levels before testing? It's pretty easy!
I was @ 300, but tested @ 115 highest (comprehensive saliva test)!
Just crash your own production.... No sleep for 3 days, add alcohol &
Licorise root, eat little, and get tested (Blood) in pm. Just do some research.
Good luck!

Any doctor who knows endocrinology and TRT will insist that the patient's blood levels be checked first thing in the morning as close to 8 am as possible or earlier. Otherwise the test results are suspect and not accurate.

Through my adventures in TRT, I have not met a single doctors who will even consider looking at saliva based tests for TRT becuase they want accurate meaningful test results.

 

[liftr486]

i was reading more about the androgel and someone said that it aromatizes less than weekly inkectable testosterone...is this true?


how is the androgel workin out for you njmuscleguy?--the thing i was worried about was transfer to my girl.

 

[Primordial Performance]

i was reading more about the androgel and someone said that it aromatizes less than weekly inkectable testosterone...is this true?

Yes, it appears this is true for most guys.

-Pp

 

[liftr486]

Yes, it appears this is true for most guys.

-Pp

is it still as effective as injectables? I am prone to gyno but didnt think an hrt dose would give me any problems...currently using AIFM to help the aromatization.

how would you go about switching over from cyp to the gel? my next shot is on monday, so I guess I could just replace with the 4 pumps i was prescribed?


thanks

 

[Primordial Performance]

is it still as effective as injectables? I am prone to gynecomastia but didnt think an hrt dose would give me any problems...currently using AIFM to help the aromatization.

how would you go about switching over from testosterone cypionate to the gel? my next shot is on monday, so I guess I could just replace with the 4 pumps i was prescribed?


thanks

I know what “1 tube” of androgel is, but I don’t know what the pump equivalent is… do you?

Topical test may be ideal for you because of your gyno situation. The topical test will convert to more DHT, so this may actually help reverse any gyno problems you may have. (DHT fights the effects of estrogen) The AIFM may not even be necessary once you get on the androgel – but Im wondering, have you tested E1/E2 before and after the AIFM?

Id start the gel 7 days after the last cyp shot.

-Pp

 

[liftr486]

4 pumps of androgel = 5g

 

[liftr486]

i did test mt estro levels before...

i jus filled the gel and applied the dose (10g-8pumps) and it is a fucken pain...i feel like im bathing in it--plus mg gf is worried it will transfer to her.

 

[njmuscleguy]

i was reading more about the androgel and someone said that it aromatizes less than weekly inkectable testosterone...is this true?


how is the androgel workin out for you njmuscleguy?--the thing i was worried about was transfer to my girl.

I've been on it for exactly a week so far.... any effects I feel are mild so far...... might still be too early...I'm using the pump, 5g (4 pumps ED) ... from what I understand, alot of guys usually have to bump up the dosage... in which case, they opt for injectable because it's easier.... 4 pumps is messy enough.... 8 pumps is crazy.... I don't think you have to worry much about transferring to your girl, but it's a legitimate concern for anyone to want to switch over to injectable.... also, the gel dries out your skin I've noticed...

oh, and I read the same thing about the gel aromatizing less

 

[heavy_duty]

I have a prescription for androgel
here it is $100.00 box - no insurance.
because i have 2 small daughters under age 6 who crawl all over me I'm going in to ask my Doc for the inject.

Once I tell her my fear of it getting on my girls I'm sure she'll go for the poke. But I was hoping to only have to go in 2x a month-----is this possible???? thanks

 

[5150guy]

.........I asked if he tested estrogen levels and he said indignantly that if my test levels came back normal, there would be no need to testosterone[test]enanthate [estrogen] levels

He holds firm that my total test was normal at 397, he considers 300 "low", and HRT is not warranted for me. He also said he has no other thoughts as to why I have the same symptoms as "low test".

He's sending me another form for bloodwork - I'm gonna get tested tomorrow morning and see what happens. I'm gonna find another doctor, this guy is a dead-end.

If your goal is truly TRT, your doctor left out some of the most important tests. First off, Free T is just as important if not more so than Total T. Second, T/E ratio is one of the key aspects of regulating a man's TRT program. Third, if he will not test your E2 levels using the sensitive test, while having you on exogenous T, he is not a TRT doctor. Fourth has he tested you for prolactin and FSH and LH?

Some endos are very ignorant regarding TRT, and it is tough to find ones who really know how to tune your T and E levels. Many of them make their bread and butter from treating diabetics.

However, with all the bad press steriod use is getting at this time, you will find many doctors who are reluctant to go with injectables. This is especially so, if they suspect that you've used DIY anabolic androgenic steroids before seeking help for your low T or hypogonadism.

 

[njmuscleguy]

If your goal is truly TRT, your doctor left out some of the most important tests. First off, Free T is just as important if not more so than Total T. Second, T/E ratio is one of the key aspects of regulating a man's TRT program. Third, if he will not test your E2 levels using the sensitive test, while having you on exogenous T, he is not a TRT doctor. Fourth has he tested you for prolactin and FSH and LH?

Some endos are very ignorant regarding TRT, and it is tough to find ones who really know how to tune your T and E levels. Many of them make their bread and butter from treating diabetics.

However, with all the bad press steriod use is getting at this time, you will find many doctors who are reluctant to go with injectables. This is especially so, if they suspect that you've used DIY anabolic androgenic steroids before seeking help for your low T or hypogonadism.

The endo tested for the basics (FSH, LH, total test, free test)...he didn't test for E2...However, I've had my primary doctor test for EVERYTHING in the past, and everything checked out ok except for test levels being in the toilet.... the Endo said everything looks normal (except FSH is slightly elevated). He flat out refuses to go any further.

Next time I see this new doctor who put me on the androgel, I will discuss the injectable...and also making sure he orders up the right tests.... he seems open to discussion.