Im sick of fucking France!

[fistfullofsteel]

You guys need to read a history book, NOT one meant for third graders.


you need to come up with a better response than that, and americans died because they were fighting, which means doing dirty work.

the russians did do more killing than usa, but that's because Russia got envaded, so they killed germans on home soil to get rid of them and then kept on killing with a vegenance because they were pissed off. which is understandable. the russians did do more dirty work but not all of it. don't make it sound like russia did it all by themselves because you know that is not the case.

my history teachers and including old german nazi soldiers talked about how the germans knew there was no surrrender to the russians because they would wind up killing them so the germans hoped they were against usa soldiers because at least they could surrender to them. don't tell me it's a lie either, the old germans on tv themselves said it. unless you are telling me they are lying. like i said russia was more ruthless.

 

[bunnymt]

the russians did do more killing than usa, but that's because Russia got envaded, so they killed germans on home soil to get rid of them and then kept on killing with a vegenance because they were pissed off. which is understandable. the russians did do more dirty work but not all of it. don't make it sound like russia did it all by themselves because you know that is not the case.

Russia did not do it all by themselves. It is war and war is always about killing, death, distruction, and total mayhem.
It is the way in which Russia behaved in war that is not forgotten. They were RUTHLESS...raping, pillaging, all of the most terrible things you could ever think of.
Russia was invaded. True. But this was after they had sided with the germans. They were not innocent people. They were conquering Europe from the east and germany was moving across the western front. Countries like Poland felt the grip and destruction of Russians...and then when the germans arrived in Poland as well....well, you can imagine.
When the germans invaded France, it was not a typical "russian" invasion. There may have been a few instances of rape and other wartime instances, however, as I have previously stated, the french pride themselves on being a peaceful people. They were able to eventually 'peacefully' mesh with the invading german army. The French were not happy about it and there were subsequent revolutions, yet the way in which the germans behaved once they had captured Paris and completely conquered france, was totally night-and-day different than the manner with which the russians conducted themselves in countries such as Poland.

 

[the nature boy]

first of all, the russians butchered and raped so many innocent germans mainly because the germans conducted a "scorched earth" policy when they conducted the invasion on russia. Hitler and many of the german elite viewed the Slavic peoples as subhuman, and this thinking was perpetuated on German soldiers. There was an unwritten policy that any russian civilians and/or soldiers were to be killed. It was not physically enforced becuase that policy hurt the morale of German soldiers that didn't want to kill non-combatants or captured russian soldiers. But trust me germans took that war to a whole new level, and the russians responded similarily.

bunnymt, to say that the russians "were not innocent people" is totally off base. the average russian person of which you speak had no say in terms of what the russian government did. In fact, Stalin murdered millions of russia's own people. Stalin was not innocent, but his people had no choice.

 

[bunnymt]

bunnymt, to say that the russians "were not innocent people" is totally off base. the average russian person of which you speak had no say in terms of what the russian government did. In fact, Stalin murdered millions of russia's own people. Stalin was not innocent, but his people had no choice.

This is not what I meant at all. I am not saying that Russians were not killed. I am not saying that every russian person wanted to fight. I am commmenting on the manner with which the russians fought as compared to the germans or perhaps the way that the US fought. Stalin's people had a choice in the way in which they conducted themselves as they invaded/after they had invaded and were occupying certain countries.
The russians fought against the germans when they invaded Russia...they had no choice. This is true. People forget that the russians and the germans were on the same side at one point.

 

[bunnymt]

Furthermore, I was not commenting on the way that russia fought germany. There was more to their battle than a stronger power attacking and invading a weaker power. Between the two, there were other issues at stake....
There was no way that the Polish or French army would have been able to defeat the russian or german army, without outside help. They were helpless, although it took the germans 2 months to capture warsaw.
The russians pillaged and raped in countries such as poland, when they were allies.

 

[Zirakzigil]

you guys dont get the point.

The point is not that the Russians were these great and noble heroes, that would be a lie. The point is they took care of a MUCH bigger portion of the german army than the western allies did. They absorbed a lot more. No one in their right mind is claiming the Russians had the moral high ground, hell just look at Katyn Forest. The point is, the Russians absorbed more of the German military, and crushed more of it. they had the land and men to do so. The turning point of the war wasn't Palermo or El Alamein or D-Day or whatever you learned from Mrs. Olson. It was Kursk or Stalingrad, where insane numbers of Germans and Russians died. Hitler couldnt continue to take those kinds of casualties, but he did ---> weakened Germany

 

[bunnymt]

you guys dont get the point.

The point is not that the Russians were these great and noble heroes, that would be a lie. The point is they took care of a MUCH bigger portion of the german army than the western allies did. They absorbed a lot more.

True....and the russian army was very large...a lot of russian bodies.

 

[fistfullofsteel]

you guys dont get the point.

The point is not that the Russians were these great and noble heroes, that would be a lie. The point is they took care of a MUCH bigger portion of the german army than the western allies did. They absorbed a lot more. No one in their right mind is claiming the Russians had the moral high ground, hell just look at Katyn Forest. The point is, the Russians absorbed more of the German military, and crushed more of it. they had the land and men to do so. The turning point of the war wasn't Palermo or El Alamein or D-Day or whatever you learned from Mrs. Olson. It was Kursk or Stalingrad, where insane numbers of Germans and Russians died. Hitler couldnt continue to take those kinds of casualties, but he did ---> weakened Germany

russians were fighting on home turf so they better have killed a lot of germans, they had no choice, unless they wanted to be like France, which is surrender. stalin was responsible for the heavy russian casulaties. he was ruthless and threw soldiers into the battle fields with the thought, if i lose them, i have more.


the battle of stalingrad wasn't considered the only major turning point. the battle of el alamein was too. the germans lost many to the russian cold weather too. long supply lines, the slow soviet retreat that left only scroched earth behind, and the crushing cold of russian winter slowed hitler's impetuous drive to a crawl, as they had Napoleon's in 1812.

 

[Zirakzigil]

LOL, why are you fighting tooth and nail about this? It doesn't matter if they were fighting on home turf. It doesn't matter if they were brutal to their own people and the people in Eastern Europe. Those things are totally irrelevant to the point. The point is that the Russians took care of a MUCH larger percentage of the German war machine than the western allies. Note I am not saying why this happened, just stating that it did (and it is indisputable fact). And the secondary point is, these are things Americans don't learn in history class, because no one wants to admit the fucking commies mattered far more to the war effort in Europe than we did! LOL

 

[fistfullofsteel]

LOL, why are you fighting tooth and nail about this? It doesn't matter if they were fighting on home turf. It doesn't matter if they were brutal to their own people and the people in Eastern Europe. Those things are totally irrelevant to the point. The point is that the Russians took care of a MUCH larger percentage of the German war machine than the western allies. Note I am not saying why this happened, just stating that it did (and it is indisputable fact). And the secondary point is, these are things Americans don't learn in history class, because no one wants to admit the fucking commies mattered far more to the war effort in Europe than we did! LOL

but how much was it due to hitlers own stupidity for invading russia the way he did?