I'm really not a dick

[Lestat]

I don't try to pick fights, I enjoy being well liked and arguing with everyone doesn't help.

There are topics I just seem to have strong opinions on. Religion and politics obviously get me in trouble. But this Vick thing is new, just saw a bit of news on it and it made me sick how they are publicly lynching the guy. He fucked up, but come on, wouldn't you expect to be treated a bit better? I expect more from humanity, at least what we consider the civilized part of it. Vick fucked that up with the whole dog fighting deal, that shit is not right and brings us all down. Deal with the shit, have him man up, and lets move on.

If he takes a "deal" he agreed to fully cooperate with the Feds. He should help them take down a bigger portion of the whole operation. Its primarily in the South, he has to be connected somewhat if his dogs were fighting regularly in the circuit. Lets get rid of the shit once and for all and let this guy remain with a little dignity intact. He fucked up, no doubt. No one died though, no one suffered injury physically or monetarily. Just some stupid people doing stupid shit. The dogs, that sucks man, its fucking terrible. But I can't get too choked up over some 8 executed dogs (and who knows, there was probably more) when there's people dying right now of starvation, people getting blown up by suicide bombers, and stray US bombs. Bleak shit is going down everywhere (poor mexican's fucked up in some mine, bunch of people losing all their shit in a hurricane) but we have to focus in on some dogs? People leave their dogs on the fucking highway when they get tired of them, or move, we've all seen it. How do you think these dogs get out there? Jumping out of trucks?

Fact is, Vick is getting bent over because of the dogs involvement. People think aw fuck he's a perverted motherfucker if he can electocute a poor lil puppy dog. Its some sick shit, but who did he hurt? Its his own fucked up fetish (which is, and should be illegal) so make him pay up and promise never to do it again (all kinds of bans on owining dogs and probation and what not) and lets call it a day.

cool?

 

[Sub-Zero]

i agree

 

[inkspot]

I don't try to pick fights, I enjoy being well liked and arguing with everyone doesn't help.

There are topics I just seem to have strong opinions on. Religion and politics obviously get me in trouble. But this Vick thing is new, just saw a bit of news on it and it made me sick how they are publicly lynching the guy. He fucked up, but come on, wouldn't you expect to be treated a bit better? I expect more from humanity, at least what we consider the civilized part of it. Vick fucked that up with the whole dog fighting deal, that shit is not right and brings us all down. Deal with the shit, have him man up, and lets move on.

If he takes a "deal" he agreed to fully cooperate with the Feds. He should help them take down a bigger portion of the whole operation. Its primarily in the South, he has to be connected somewhat if his dogs were fighting regularly in the circuit. Lets get rid of the shit once and for all and let this guy remain with a little dignity intact. He fucked up, no doubt. No one died though, no one suffered injury physically or monetarily. Just some stupid people doing stupid shit. The dogs, that sucks man, its fucking terrible. But I can't get too choked up over some 8 executed dogs (and who knows, there was probably more) when there's people dying right now of starvation, people getting blown up by suicide bombers, and stray US bombs. Bleak shit is going down everywhere (poor mexican's fucked up in some mine, bunch of people losing all their shit in a hurricane) but we have to focus in on some dogs? People leave their dogs on the fucking highway when they get tired of them, or move, we've all seen it. How do you think these dogs get out there? Jumping out of trucks?

Fact is, Vick is getting bent over because of the dogs involvement. People think aw fuck he's a perverted motherfucker if he can electocute a poor lil puppy dog. Its some sick shit, but who did he hurt? Its his own fucked up fetish (which is, and should be illegal) so make him pay up and promise never to do it again (all kinds of bans on owining dogs and probation and what not) and lets call it a day.

cool?

Bingo.
Lestat you can defend your opinion till the death, but the bottom line is you don't treat man's best friend like that..end of story!

 

[Lestat]

Bingo.
Lestat you can defend your opinion till the death, but the bottom line is you don't treat man's best friend like that..end of story!

lol. Dude I love dogs and all, but those dogs he was fucking with we no one's best friends. They raised them from the litter to be mean and aggressive as all fuck. Had they been captured by a shelter, they would have been euthanized.

 

[Sub-Zero]

Bingo.
Lestat you can defend your opinion till the death, but the bottom line is you don't treat man's best friend like that..end of story!

this isnt about him being a scumbag or not,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

 

[inkspot]

lol. Dude I love dogs and all, but those dogs he was fucking with we no one's best friends. They raised them from the litter to be mean and aggressive as all fuck. Had they been captured by a shelter, they would have been euthanized.

Problem #1

 

[Lestat]

Problem #1

Yes! We agree again. That is a crime, raising dogs with the explicit reason to fight. I'd like to see it ended altogether. I just do not feel that Vick needs to be going to Prison over it.

 

[inkspot]

this isnt about him being a scumbag or not,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

I have no sympathy for him.

 

[layinback]

you are not a dick, just a bright young man with strong opinions. historically in good company.

 

[CrazyRussian]

Why are you still talking about this? You started a post knowing nothing about what you were talking about. He's getting put in prison for gambling rings, conspiracy, illegal interstate commerce, possibly racketeering/sponsoring a criminal organization, and a bunch of other counts we don't know about.

Not "killing dogs".

Your opinion on whether killing 8 dogs warranted this punishment is irrelevant, because that's not why he's going to prison. How many times do people have to repeat this before you get it through your head?

The fact that you won't just admit that you're wrong and that you're just arguing for the sake of arguing is what makes you a dick.

 

[Razorguns]

it's illegal

he broke the law

he'll do his time

nothing to see. move on folks.

 

[Lestat]

Why are you still talking about this? You started a post knowing nothing about what you were talking about. He's getting put in prison for gambling rings, conspiracy, illegal interstate commerce, possibly racketeering/sponsoring a criminal organization, and a bunch of other counts we don't know about.

Not "killing dogs".

Your opinion on whether killing 8 dogs warranted this punishment is irrelevant, because that's not why he's going to prison. How many times do people have to repeat this before you get it through your head?

The fact that you won't just admit that you're wrong and that you're just arguing for the sake of arguing is what makes you a dick.

Bro, do I need to break it down any simpler?

Its because of the DOGS that everyone is talking about this. Its the DOG issue that makes people want to see him get the book thrown at him.

His little rackateering and conspiracy thing? It was for peanuts, not even worth the feds time of day, and it would not have even existed without the dogs. Some of those purses were for less than $1000. Do you think the Feds are really concerned about that? Tax evasion even? There were a couple big purses, 5 digits. I bet many pro athletes throw wagers around for that amount, but its the involvement of the DOGS that set this apart. No one would give a shit otherwise.

 

[mountain muscle]

Bro, do I need to break it down any simpler?

Its because of the DOGS that everyone is talking about this. Its the DOG issue that makes people want to see him get the book thrown at him.

His little rackateering and conspiracy thing? It was for peanuts, not even worth the feds time of day, and it would not have even existed without the dogs. Some of those purses were for less than $1000. Do you think the Feds are really concerned about that? Tax evasion even? There were a couple big purses, 5 digits. I bet many pro athletes throw wagers around for that amount, but its the involvement of the DOGS that set this apart. No one would give a shit otherwise.

Now reread your statement. Now it is about the money?

He had nothing to gain, He had millions of dollars. He used them to abuse animals to make more money.

You can't even stick to one argument. go smoke a bowl and post pics of leftover chicks from sd. You have proven yourself the fool on this topic.

 

[mountain muscle]

NO IDIOT! he is getting bent over because he broke the fucking law!

He is a man of privelege, because of football, and he CHOSE to torture and profit from innocent creatures. IT was against the law.

You need a fucking reality check.

 

[Smurfy]

here we go TOTW #2. lmao

 

[biteme]

I don't try to pick fights, I enjoy being well liked and arguing with everyone doesn't help.

There are topics I just seem to have strong opinions on. Religion and politics obviously get me in trouble. But this Vick thing is new, just saw a bit of news on it and it made me sick how they are publicly lynching the guy. He fucked up, but come on, wouldn't you expect to be treated a bit better? I expect more from humanity, at least what we consider the civilized part of it. Vick fucked that up with the whole dog fighting deal, that shit is not right and brings us all down. Deal with the shit, have him man up, and lets move on.

If he takes a "deal" he agreed to fully cooperate with the Feds. He should help them take down a bigger portion of the whole operation. Its primarily in the South, he has to be connected somewhat if his dogs were fighting regularly in the circuit. Lets get rid of the shit once and for all and let this guy remain with a little dignity intact. He fucked up, no doubt. No one died though, no one suffered injury physically or monetarily. Just some stupid people doing stupid shit. The dogs, that sucks man, its fucking terrible. But I can't get too choked up over some 8 executed dogs (and who knows, there was probably more) when there's people dying right now of starvation, people getting blown up by suicide bombers, and stray US bombs. Bleak shit is going down everywhere (poor mexican's fucked up in some mine, bunch of people losing all their shit in a hurricane) but we have to focus in on some dogs? People leave their dogs on the fucking highway when they get tired of them, or move, we've all seen it. How do you think these dogs get out there? Jumping out of trucks?

Fact is, Vick is getting bent over because of the dogs involvement. People think aw fuck he's a perverted motherfucker if he can electocute a poor lil puppy dog. Its some sick shit, but who did he hurt? Its his own fucked up fetish (which is, and should be illegal) so make him pay up and promise never to do it again (all kinds of bans on owining dogs and probation and what not) and lets call it a day.

cool?

There's gonna be a lot of varying opinions. I think he should get some jail time (Maybe a month or two) and fines and his career is gonna be ruined. What he did calls for possible jail time under the law and under these circumstances, I would agree that a little time is deserved. But, not too much. As despicable as what he did was, they were dogs... People are allowed to shoot dogs if the wander onto their property. Happens out here in the country sometimes.

 

[KillahBee]

I don't give a fuck about the dogs. And I don't give a fuck about the gambling ring shit. I don't give a fuck about Vick either (other than the fact that I have been saying he's overrated since day one and was DEAD ON BALLS ACCURATE).

But any "he made a mistake, he apologized, let's move on" approach to dealing with people over the age of 14 is just ridiculous.

 

[harmonica]

The same media engine that made him very rich is now taking him down in the public eye.......even if he was not a public figure he would be fucked...there just wouldnt be much media. You break the law and get caught and get convicted you are fucked......end of story.
btw the IRS WILL go after you for $1000.00...

 

[patsfan1379]

I don't try to pick fights, I enjoy being well liked and arguing with everyone doesn't help.

There are topics I just seem to have strong opinions on. Religion and politics obviously get me in trouble. But this Vick thing is new, just saw a bit of news on it and it made me sick how they are publicly lynching the guy. He fucked up, but come on, wouldn't you expect to be treated a bit better? I expect more from humanity, at least what we consider the civilized part of it. Vick fucked that up with the whole dog fighting deal, that shit is not right and brings us all down. Deal with the shit, have him man up, and lets move on.

If he takes a "deal" he agreed to fully cooperate with the Feds. He should help them take down a bigger portion of the whole operation. Its primarily in the South, he has to be connected somewhat if his dogs were fighting regularly in the circuit. Lets get rid of the shit once and for all and let this guy remain with a little dignity intact. He fucked up, no doubt. No one died though, no one suffered injury physically or monetarily. Just some stupid people doing stupid shit. The dogs, that sucks man, its fucking terrible. But I can't get too choked up over some 8 executed dogs (and who knows, there was probably more) when there's people dying right now of starvation, people getting blown up by suicide bombers, and stray US bombs. Bleak shit is going down everywhere (poor mexican's fucked up in some mine, bunch of people losing all their shit in a hurricane) but we have to focus in on some dogs? People leave their dogs on the fucking highway when they get tired of them, or move, we've all seen it. How do you think these dogs get out there? Jumping out of trucks?

Fact is, Vick is getting bent over because of the dogs involvement. People think aw fuck he's a perverted motherfucker if he can electocute a poor lil puppy dog. Its some sick shit, but who did he hurt? Its his own fucked up fetish (which is, and should be illegal) so make him pay up and promise never to do it again (all kinds of bans on owining dogs and probation and what not) and lets call it a day.

cool?

#1 - You are not well liked.
#2 - Where is the 1 million K you bet me when you opened your big mouth. A real man honors his bets. Pay up son or you'll never hear the end of it.

 

[jh1]

Lestat.

I am not purposely trying to pick something out of this and analyis you, but any chance this has to do with the fact that he is a black celebrity being brought down by the white government that is bothering you about this?

I noticed you used the word 'lynched' as well. I know your sensitive to racial issues and it occured to me that you might be sensitive to this because of the fact he is black.

 

[H_T_]

people who murder dogs are weird. people who think other people murdering dogs is ok are even more bizarre. hope you pass that gem on to your kids....

 

[jh1]

^ True That

 

[gotmilk]

His little rackateering and conspiracy thing? It was for peanuts, not even worth the feds time of day, and it would not have even existed without the dogs. Some of those purses were for less than $1000. Do you think the Feds are really concerned about that? Tax evasion even? There were a couple big purses, 5 digits.

At the house he owned B. He financially backed a network of dog fights all over the Southeast US. Some of the guys Vick ratted on testified at Vick's grand jury. The estimated take over 5 years was in the tens of millions. That's not peanuts.

Breeding the dogs was where most of the money came from. Selling dogs specifically for dog fights is conspiracy.....what really nailed his ass on this one.

It's also why he was not charged with dogfighting....he was indicted on CONSPIRACY. An organized effort.

It's Pinkerton v United States....and it's something Mike's attornies dreaded from Day 1

 

[Dial_tone]

Vick should rat out people higher up than him and really help wipe out this dogfighting shit. He could regain some credibility by doing that.

 

[blueta2]

people who murder dogs /cats or any other animal are weird. people who think other people murdering dogs/cats or any other animal are even more bizarre. hope you pass that gem on to your kids....

There, that's better and I AGREEEEE!

 

[Lestat]

I don't give a fuck about the dogs. And I don't give a fuck about the gambling ring shit. I don't give a fuck about Vick either (other than the fact that I have been saying he's overrated since day one and was DEAD ON BALLS ACCURATE).

But any "he made a mistake, he apologized, let's move on" approach to dealing with people over the age of 14 is just ridiculous.

who is saying that? I agree, that would be ridiculous, we're talking about a federal crime.

 

[blueta2]

Anyone who abuses any animal of any kind is sick. I have a real issue with hunters, b/c yes most do it for the thrill of the kill and not to eat. Why you would give more respect to your dogs and not a deer baffles me.

The Vick guy is an angry destroyer. Anyone that can torture an animal the way he did, should not be allowed to participate with the kinder part of society.

 

[Lestat]

Anyone who abuses any animal of any kind is sick. I have a real issue with hunters, b/c yes most do it for the thrill of the kill and not to eat. Why you would give more respect to your dogs and not a deer baffles me.

The Vick guy is an angry destroyer. Anyone that can torture an animal the way he did, should not be allowed to participate with the kinder part of society.

I understand the emotion in your post, but disagree. Had Vick done it to humans, yes, lock him up forever.

He did it to animals, still wrong, but not warrented of prison time in my opinion.

 

[Bikini Mod]

people who murder dogs are weird. people who think other people murdering dogs is ok are even more bizarre. hope you pass that gem on to your kids....

Who ever said that it was *OK* to KILL (you murder PEOPLE. you KILL animals.) dogs?

People who are more incensed by the torture/killing of DOGS than they are by the torture/killing of human beings are THE MOST bizaare. But WTF do I know?

And yes, I will gladly pass THAT GEM onto MY CHILDREN, that is if they are ever given back their mother. Oh wait, that isn't torture... that is LAUGHABLE.

Lets do carry on then now that I have been schooled.

 

[blueta2]

I understand the emotion in your post, but disagree. Had Vick done it to humans, yes, lock him up forever.

He did it to animals, still wrong, but not warrented of prison time in my opinion.

Take a look at these and tell me how u feel after
If you feel nothing, then you are as cold as thie Vick guy

Any NORMAL person would see these pics and feel bad and would do anything to help.
Ignoring abuse makes you as bad as the abuser, animal or human. You say you believe in God, well then know that God created all living things. Humans are not better than animals....in fact, if u believe in creation, we were animals once. In some case, like this Vick fuck, well he's still an animal.
Fucking humans make me sick!

http://i10.tinypic.com/4lnfosz.gif

http://i13.tinypic.com/4pey3a9.jpg

http://i10.tinypic.com/6b1lax3.jpg

 

[Lestat]

Take a look at these and tell me how u feel after
If you feel nothing, then you are as cold as thie Vick guy

Any NORMAL person would see these pics and feel bad and would do anything to help.
Ignoring abuse makes you as bad as the abuser, animal or human. You say you believe in God, well then know that God created all living things. Humans are not better than animals....in fact, if u believe in creation, we were animals once. In some case, like this Vick fuck, well he's still an animal.
Fucking humans make me sick!

http://i10.tinypic.com/4lnfosz.gif

http://i13.tinypic.com/4pey3a9.jpg

http://i10.tinypic.com/6b1lax3.jpg

those picures make me sad and angry.

Just because the elicit and emotional response from me though, is not enough reason to put someone in prison.

 

[BBR100]

I understand the emotion in your post, but disagree. Had Vick done it to humans, yes, lock him up forever.

He did it to animals, still wrong, but not warrented of prison time in my opinion.

Our society has laws and the law says it warrants prison time regardless of your opinion.
He not only participated but organized and financed dog fights = jail time.
He denied any involvement until yesterday when he had no other choice after his buddies rolled.

 

[Lestat]

Our society has laws and the law says it warrants prison time regardless of your opinion.
He not only participated but organized and financed dog fights = jail time.
He denied any involvement until yesterday when he had no other choice after his buddies rolled.

I understand the laws and that I what I disagree with!

Just how I disagree with the Taliban's law that a theif gets his hand cut off. Its the law, but I do not feel the punishment is right.

 

[H_T_]

make a sign and stand in front of the malt shop with it. i bet you get beat up.

 

[MichaelScott]

pay your bills

 

[jackangel]

down with whitey

 

[gotmilk]

Just how I disagree with the Taliban's law that a theif gets his hand cut off. Its the law, but I do not feel the punishment is right.

That's why we do not amputate the arms of thieves.

Or, better yet, don't steal and you'll never have to worry about being nicknamed Lefty.

http://www.hazara.net/forum/gallery/graphic_images/rawa/handcut0.jpg

 

[digimon7068]

when there's a bigger outcry over atrocities committed against animals than there is for atrocities committed against people, the human race is doomed. . .it's a damn shame. . .we had a pretty good run. . .

 

[Lestat]

when there's a bigger outcry over atrocities committed against animals than there is for atrocities committed against people, the human race is doomed. . .it's a damn shame. . .we had a pretty good run. . .

I agree.

I am denounced for sticking up for Vick.

I was also denounced for implying that the government had any responsibility for the Katrina disaster!

 

[Bikini Mod]

when there's a bigger outcry over atrocities committed against animals than there is for atrocities committed against people, the human race is doomed. . .it's a damn shame. . .we had a pretty good run. . .

MY ONLY FUCKING POINT.

For this I was called a psycho....

I rest my case.

 

[blueta2]

when there's a bigger outcry over atrocities committed against animals than there is for atrocities committed against people, the human race is doomed. . .it's a damn shame. . .we had a pretty good run. . .

There is NOT a bigger outcry. The reason for the outcry for animals is b/c they cannot speak for themselves.
Any damage done to society (to humans or animals) should be punished.
We, as humans, must treat ALL living things with respect and dignity.

Forget the laws.......the laws of Muslim countries are fucking stupid and are made by inadequate men. They kill their wives for walking out of the house w/out their fucking scarves. This is not the same, we are not fucking monsters like those ppl.
Here in North American we work hard on making our society humane and respectful, this pc of dirt Vick went against what our society is trying to attain so he must be punished. He's a sick part of the human species.
We institutionalize sick ppl all the time.

 

[digimon7068]

There is NOT a bigger outcry. The reason for the outcry for animals is b/c they cannot speak for themselves.
Any damage done to society (to humans or animals) should be punished.
We, as humans, must treat ALL living things with respect and dignity.

Forget the laws.......the laws of Muslim countries are fucking stupid and are made by inadequate men. They kill their wives for walking out of the house w/out their fucking scarves. This is not the same, we are not fucking monsters like those ppl.
Here in North American we work hard on making our society humane and respectful, this pc of dirt Vick went against what our society is trying to attain so he must be punished. He's a sick part of the human species.
We institutionalize sick ppl all the time.

remember what happened the last time we got in an argument?? you really need a cold shower that bad???

 

[blueta2]

remember what happened the last time we got in an argument?? you really need a cold shower that bad???

I won??! ;-)

Well this is not an argument, it's a debate ;-)

 

[Bikini Mod]

There is NOT a bigger outcry. The reason for the outcry for animals is b/c they cannot speak for themselves.
Any damage done to society (to humans or animals) should be punished.
We, as humans, must treat ALL living things with respect and dignity.

Forget the laws.......the laws of Muslim countries are fucking stupid and are made by inadequate men. They kill their wives for walking out of the house w/out their fucking scarves. This is not the same, we are not fucking monsters like those ppl. Here in North American we work hard on making our society humane and respectful, this pc of dirt Vick went against what our society is trying to attain so he must be punished. He's a sick part of the human species.
We institutionalize sick ppl all the time.

Ms Blue... I must humbly disagree with your statement. How many monsters have you seen LAUGHING about the fact that my children were not only stripped of their mother for NO REASON but have to be continually subjected to abuse?

Sorry, but this is VERY personal for me.

I would never hurt a fly. I dont even like squashing bugs but, if I had to kill and animal I would - not for pleasure... I am not wired that way and pity those that are...

I am disgusted by the very people that *suddenly* have become human because of some goddamned dogs. Some of those very same people have

- said the most disgusting things about my defenseless and innocent abused children.

- laughed at their suffering as well as my own.

- wished death upon me AND my husband.

So.... you were saying?

Sorry, but my heart is far too hardened to worry about some fucking dogs. I am too busy trying not to lose my mind over how my children are made to suffer and are abused DAILY yet nobody seems to give a fat fucking rat's ass.

 

[jackangel]

do not touch the human
do not feed the human

 

[digimon7068]

I won??! ;-)

Well this is not an argument, it's a debate ;-)

actually it's not even a debate. . .i understand and respect your point of view and, personally i have no great love for my fellow man. . .it just strikes me as odd that the executions of the four college students in newark by a bunch of fuggin' scumbags (at least one of which was a piece of shit illegal fucking alien) is on the radar screen for like two days and got ZERO attention form the feds. . .yet this michael vick dog execution/abuse thing has played hard everyday since the initial raid and the federal government dedicated some of it's best forensic people/tools to gathering evidence to use against a formerly honest taxpaying citizen. . .

 

[blueta2]

Ms Blue... I must humbly disagree with your statement. How many monsters have you seen LAUGHING about the fact that my children were not only stripped of their mother for NO REASON but have to be continually subjected to abuse?

Sorry, but this is VERY personal for me.

I would never hurt a fly. I dont even like squashing bugs but, if I had to kill and animal I would - not for pleasure... I am not wired that way and pity those that are...

I am disgusted by the very people that *suddenly* have become human because of some goddamned dogs. Some of those very same people have

- said the most disgusting things about my defenseless and innocent abused children.

- laughed at their suffering as well as my own.

- wished death upon me AND my husband.

So.... you were saying?

Sorry, but my heart is far to hardened to worry about some fucking dogs. I am too busy trying not to lose my mind over how my children are made to suffer and are abused DAILY yet nobody seems to give a fat fucking rat's ass.

The people who are laughing in your situation with your kids, are also not good humans. Anyone who will abuse kids is as sick as anyone who abuses an animal
My point is, we ALL live in the planet together, we must respect EVERYONE (that includes animals).
Your heart can be with the love of kids and animals, the heart is big enough to accommodate both!
This is a personal and sensitive issue for you I know, but you must know animal abuse is my biggest issue since I see abused and tortured animals all the time.
I do not value a human more than an animal, so I cannot say I sway to one side or the other. I respect both

 

[blueta2]

actually it's not even a debate. . .i understand and respect your point of view and, personally i have no great love for my fellow man. . .it just strikes me as odd that the executions of the four college students in newark by a bunch of fuggin' scumbags (at least one of which was a piece of shit illegal fucking alien) is on the radar screen for like two days and got ZERO attention form the feds. . .yet this michael vick dog execution/abuse thing has played hard everyday since the initial raid and the federal government dedicated some of it's best forensic people/tools to gathering evidence to use against a formerly honest taxpaying citizen. . .

oh well that's only b/c he's a "star". If John Nobody was caught in the same act as Vick, we would not have even heard about it on the news.
In fact, dog fighting goes on all the time and we never heard about it.

Parent abuse happens a lot as well, but now that it's all the "rage" with Britney, we're going to hear about it non stop.....

See what I'm saying....

 

[Bikini Mod]

The people who are laughing in your situation with your kids, are also not good humans. Anyone who will abuse kids is as sick as anyone who abuses an animal
My point is, we ALL live in the planet together, we must respect EVERYONE (that includes animals).
Your heart can be with the love of kids and animals, the heart is big enough to accommodate both!
This is a personal and sensitive issue for you I know, but you must know animal abuse is my biggest issue since I see abused and tortured animals all the time.
I do not value a human more than an animal, so I cannot say I sway to one side or the other. I respect both

That is why I say HYPOCRITES because some of the most outraged about these dogs are the ones who have had YEARS of laughter over the situation of my children, have made all sorts of jokes about my daughters and wished me and my husband death then to REALLY be charming have expressed that they hoped my children NEVER see me again! NYICE... to wish that ANY CHILD grow up without a mother. Their mothers must have been stellar human beings is all I can think of. How can ANYONE wish a child not have a mother?

I dont find pleasure in the suffering of anyone. I could NEVER hurt an animal. Just isn't in me. And I do agree, anyone who is capable of torturing an animal for pleasure would most likely not have to stretch too much to torture a human being.

The only issue I have is with THE UNBELIEVABLE HYPOCRASY of some of the male members on these threads going on and on about how sad it is to see animals tortured...

All of them turn my stomach.

 

[blueta2]

That is why I say HYPOCRITES because some of the most outraged about these dogs are the ones who have had YEARS of laughter over the situation of my children, have made all sorts of jokes about my daughters and wished me and my husband death then to REALLY be charming have expressed that they hoped my children NEVER see me again! NYICE... to wish that ANY CHILD grow up without a mother. Their mothers must have been stellar human beings is all I can think of. How can ANYONE wish a child not have a mother?

I dont find pleasure in the suffering of anyone. I could NEVER hurt an animal. Just isn't in me. And I do agree, anyone who is capable of torturing an animal for pleasure would most likely not have to stretch too much to torture a human being.

The only issue I have is with THE UNBELIEVABLE HYPOCRASY of some of the male members on these threads going on and on about how sad it is to see animals tortured...

All of them turn my stomach.

NO DOUBT in all that you say....again proving my point, HUMANS SUCK!
Well not all, but most!
Karma comes in all different shape and sizes and one day the evil will get theirs. That is the only comfort I have

 

[Bikini Mod]

NO DOUBT in all that you say....again proving my point, HUMANS SUCK!
Well not all, but most!
Karma comes in all different shape and sizes and one day the evil will get theirs. That is the only comfort I have

My mother used to say, "The wheel is always turning...."

 

[digimon7068]

oh well that's only b/c he's a "star". If John Nobody was caught in the same act as Vick, we would not have even heard about it on the news.
In fact, dog fighting goes on all the time and we never heard about it.

Parent abuse happens a lot as well, but now that it's all the "rage" with Britney, we're going to hear about it non stop.....

See what I'm saying....

yeah. . .except nobody gives a shit about britney's kids. . .if she was abusing her dog though, peta would be holding a 24 hour vigil in front of her house. . .see what i'm saying??

 

[Tytan]

He`s allowed his opinion, some I agree w/ some I do not. But to judge him would be totally wrong and not our place to do so.( Vick and Lestat or whoever).

 

[blueta2]

yeah. . .except nobody gives a shit about britney's kids. . .if she was abusing her dog though, peta would be holding a 24 hour vigil in front of her house. . .see what i'm saying??

If that were the case, then PETA would just be doing a better job than childrens rights groups would be in protecting what they believe in.
Maybe PETA should train human rights persons to do a better job ;-)

 

[digimon7068]

If that were the case, then PETA would just be doing a better job than childrens rights groups would be in protecting what they believe in.
Maybe PETA should train human rights persons to do a better job ;-)

somebody should cause right now the people are getting the short end of the stick. . .

 

[blueta2]

Lestat...an article I just read you may find interesting....


Our hypocritical attitude toward animals and dogfighting
We revel in a culture of blood sports and eat meat, yet Vick takes the fall
COURTLAND MILLOY WASHINGTON POST

While eating a porterhouse the other night, I began to see the steak for what it was: a hunk of meat, blood and bone. I managed to disgust myself even more by imagining that a charbroiled piece of pit bull would not have looked much different from the gristle of beef on my fork.


Then I came to my senses and continued to enjoy my meal.


Too bad for Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick that people like me love dogs more than cows. Or, to put it another way, I prefer the taste of Angus and Hereford to Rottweiler and pit bull. Otherwise, the federal agents who recently charged Vick with dogfighting would have to arrest nearly all of us for participating in far worse acts of animal cruelty.


Ex-Beatle Paul McCartney is credited with having said, “If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be a vegetarian.” Well, they don’t – and most of us are carnivores. We’ll kill a duck, deer, turkey – name any meat – for the sheer entertainment of our palates or for the fun of the hunt.


Yet Vick, 27, must take the fall. Last Monday, the star athlete agreed to plead guilty to a single count of conspiracy. The admission could put him behind bars for five years and all but end his football career.


Make no mistake: I have no particular affinity for Vick. You can’t defend a guy who apparently gets his kicks watching dogs mangle one another and risks losing $100 million in NFL earnings and endorsements to boot. It’s just that all the hullabaloo about dogfighting seems hypocritical.


We revel in a culture of blood sports in which people and animals are pitted against one another. The knockout in boxing, the knockdown in football, the crashes at Daytona and Indianapolis – those are the draw. Without video images of tigers ripping the hides from zebras, cobras fighting mongooses and other bloody contests played out in the wild kingdom, the Discovery and National Geographic channels might as well go off the air.


Even our equestrian friends are not exempt from the cruelty of contest. Consider Barbaro, the horse that broke his leg during the Preakness Stakes last year.


“Caution: Tears will flow from watching Barbaro, the HBO Sports documentary,” TV critic Richard Sandomir wrote in the New York Times on June 6. Crocodile tears, maybe.


“Barbaro became a tragic hero whose injury reports were given like presidential health updates,” Sandomir wrote. But wait. Sandomir goes on to say the documentary’s producers “do not delve into why so few horses get Barbaro-level care when they break down.” Anybody care about that? “Like the other innocent animals we love, horses ‘trust us, live alongside us, honouring our many commands,’ the narrator, Liev Schreiber says,” Sandomir reported. “And when we ask them to – they run.”


And when they don’t, well, they die.


Barbaro’s leg could not be fixed, so he was euthanized. For many broken-down racehorses, that can mean anything from lethal injection to having their throats slit – killed just as surely as a wounded dog that can no longer fight.


Vick’s farm was raided by agents from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the same USDA that permits the wholesale slaughter of cows, chickens, pigs and lambs.


Vick’s case ought to be handled by a state’s attorney, but it isn’t. He is being prosecuted by the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Eastern District of Virginia. You’d think the guy had been caught smuggling a ton of heroin in the carcasses of dead poodles. U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson is presiding. His previous experience includes hearing cases that involve people suspected of being Al-Qa’ida sympathizers or “enemy combatants.”


Perpetrators of gun violence ought to be taken so seriously.


According to data recently released by the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, nearly half of more than 10,000 guns recovered by law enforcement authorities in the Washington area came from Virginia. Hundreds, if not thousands, of people – human beings, not dogs – have been killed by these guns. But you won’t find any gun manufacturers – or even many killers, for that matter – being hauled into court on conspiracy charges.


Apparently, you have to be a dogfight promoter for that.

 

[patsfan1379]

I'd love to see a to-the-death cowfight.

 

[biteme]

I like you Lestat. Not that it matters, but just for the record.

 

[jh1]

I'd love to see a to-the-death cowfight.

oooooooooooooooollollolollipops.....



MOOoooo

 

[jh1]

 

[jnevin]

 

[seaking420]

when there's a bigger outcry over atrocities committed against animals than there is for atrocities committed against people, the human race is doomed. . .it's a damn shame. . .we had a pretty good run. . .

110% agree with you BM and Lestat

Also there wasnt this much attention(or even jail time) to other athletes that have done or been part of terrible crimes like pacman jones, or lawrence phillips, or other athletes that have done far worse crimes than what Vick did. I guess its like what someone said here that the media gave him alot of attention when he came out of college which ended making him a star with many endorsements and now the media is taking it away.

 

[patsfan1379]

Fuck!!!! That dude is beating a dead horse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jnevin]

Fuck!!!! That dude is beating a dead horse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's rampant in these parts.

 

[seaking420]

call the federalies

 

[gotmilk]

110% agree with you BM and Lestat

Also there wasnt this much attention(or even jail time) to other athletes that have done or been part of terrible crimes like pacman jones, or lawrence phillips, or other athletes that have done far worse crimes than what Vick did.

Not a swipe at you..but did you make any effort to check out both people you referenced?

Phillips is waiting for sentencing on his Strike 2 offense in California...a mandatory 20 years in prison. He violated parole, tried to kill three kids with his car, and has delayed sentencing. He cannot be formally sentenced until the judge hears his appeal on the parole violation. It's the difference between 4 years and 20 years he is facing.

One more offense....even something like a motor vehicle violation he Phillips gets life for Strike 3. Boy did he get off easy.

Look at Maurice Clarette. 7.5 year sentence...3.5 years mandatory before parole, and 5 years probation after.

 

[seaking420]

^^^ true, i didnt look into it. It was just off the top of my head.

But my point was that Vick is getting so much attention to this, more than phillips did/is. This probably has to do with the media and nothing else to cover

 

[ukkared]

Opinions are like ass holes, everybody has one

 

[gotmilk]

But my point was that Vick is getting so much attention to this, more than phillips did/is.

Vick's at the peak of his career....Phillips only had potential.

Like comparing Kobe Bryant's episode with Pervis Ellison getting busted for weed.

Like how people are all over Barry Bond's nuts but no one really cares about some of the doods who already tested positive. Anyone yapping about Rafeal Palmeiro anymore?

 

[mountain muscle]

Lestat...an article I just read you may find interesting....


Our hypocritical attitude toward animals and dogfighting
We revel in a culture of blood sports and eat meat, yet Vick takes the fall
COURTLAND MILLOY WASHINGTON POST

While eating a porterhouse the other night, I began to see the steak for what it was: a hunk of meat, blood and bone. I managed to disgust myself even more by imagining that a charbroiled piece of pit bull would not have looked much different from the gristle of beef on my fork.


Then I came to my senses and continued to enjoy my meal.


Too bad for Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick that people like me love dogs more than cows. Or, to put it another way, I prefer the taste of Angus and Hereford to Rottweiler and pit bull. Otherwise, the federal agents who recently charged Vick with dogfighting would have to arrest nearly all of us for participating in far worse acts of animal cruelty.


Ex-Beatle Paul McCartney is credited with having said, “If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be a vegetarian.” Well, they don’t – and most of us are carnivores. We’ll kill a duck, deer, turkey – name any meat – for the sheer entertainment of our palates or for the fun of the hunt.


Yet Vick, 27, must take the fall. Last Monday, the star athlete agreed to plead guilty to a single count of conspiracy. The admission could put him behind bars for five years and all but end his football career.


Make no mistake: I have no particular affinity for Vick. You can’t defend a guy who apparently gets his kicks watching dogs mangle one another and risks losing $100 million in NFL earnings and endorsements to boot. It’s just that all the hullabaloo about dogfighting seems hypocritical.


We revel in a culture of blood sports in which people and animals are pitted against one another. The knockout in boxing, the knockdown in football, the crashes at Daytona and Indianapolis – those are the draw. Without video images of tigers ripping the hides from zebras, cobras fighting mongooses and other bloody contests played out in the wild kingdom, the Discovery and National Geographic channels might as well go off the air.


Even our equestrian friends are not exempt from the cruelty of contest. Consider Barbaro, the horse that broke his leg during the Preakness Stakes last year.


“Caution: Tears will flow from watching Barbaro, the HBO Sports documentary,” TV critic Richard Sandomir wrote in the New York Times on June 6. Crocodile tears, maybe.


“Barbaro became a tragic hero whose injury reports were given like presidential health updates,” Sandomir wrote. But wait. Sandomir goes on to say the documentary’s producers “do not delve into why so few horses get Barbaro-level care when they break down.” Anybody care about that? “Like the other innocent animals we love, horses ‘trust us, live alongside us, honouring our many commands,’ the narrator, Liev Schreiber says,” Sandomir reported. “And when we ask them to – they run.”


And when they don’t, well, they die.


Barbaro’s leg could not be fixed, so he was euthanized. For many broken-down racehorses, that can mean anything from lethal injection to having their throats slit – killed just as surely as a wounded dog that can no longer fight.


Vick’s farm was raided by agents from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the same USDA that permits the wholesale slaughter of cows, chickens, pigs and lambs.


Vick’s case ought to be handled by a state’s attorney, but it isn’t. He is being prosecuted by the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Eastern District of Virginia. You’d think the guy had been caught smuggling a ton of heroin in the carcasses of dead poodles. U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson is presiding. His previous experience includes hearing cases that involve people suspected of being Al-Qa’ida sympathizers or “enemy combatants.”


Perpetrators of gun violence ought to be taken so seriously.


According to data recently released by the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, nearly half of more than 10,000 guns recovered by law enforcement authorities in the Washington area came from Virginia. Hundreds, if not thousands, of people – human beings, not dogs – have been killed by these guns. But you won’t find any gun manufacturers – or even many killers, for that matter – being hauled into court on conspiracy charges.


Apparently, you have to be a dogfight promoter for that.

Wow, just wow.

Gun manufacturers. Dog fighting. Only an ignorant, liberal writer could make the connection.

When are we going to go after car manufacturers for the human lives lost in car crashes? Is the governement responsible as well because they built and paved the roads? What about the steel manufacturers? Well damn, then the oil companies are to blame for providing the gas to run the cars too. We don't need any responsibilty in this country as long as there is someone to blame eh?

 

[Lestat]

thanks blueta2.

I think most people are realizing that this is an emotional issue with a knee jerk over reaction.

problem is, people just don't see anything wrong with that.

My friend let her cat out on Friday and it got into a fight with another cat and is now dead.

Intentional or not, should she face any charges?

 

[jh1]

thanks blueta2.

I think most people are realizing that this is an emotional issue with a knee jerk over reaction.

Where are you getting this statistic from? Most? LMFAO. And I don't think BlueTa2 is defending Mr. Vick.

My friend let her cat out on Friday and it got into a fight with another cat and is now dead.

Wow. Nature. Not intentional disgusting cruelty from a being capable of reason and remorse, and knowing the difference between right and wrong.

Intentional or not, should she face any charges?

No.





NEXT!

.

 

[mountain muscle]

thanks blueta2.

I think most people are realizing that this is an emotional issue with a knee jerk over reaction.

problem is, people just don't see anything wrong with that.

My friend let her cat out on Friday and it got into a fight with another cat and is now dead.

Intentional or not, should she face any charges?

Did she hang or drowned an animal or sanction the fight?

That is a fucking stupid analogy.

Being charged after breaking the law is not a knee-jerk reaction. I can't even fathom your poiint of view except for just trying to stir the pot.

"But it was just a little felony and only a few animals"

 

[Smurfy]

thanks blueta2.

I think most people are realizing that this is an emotional issue with a knee jerk over reaction.

problem is, people just don't see anything wrong with that.

My friend let her cat out on Friday and it got into a fight with another cat and is now dead.

Intentional or not, should she face any charges?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intention_(criminal)

 

[Lestat]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intention_(criminal)

people go to prison for unintenionally killing humans though right?

 

[mountain muscle]

people go to prison for unintenionally killing humans though right?

Vince Neil didn't. It was him that killed his buddy in a car crash yes?

 

[Smurfy]

people go to prison for unintenionally killing humans though right?

yes of course, because there is a law against causing someone else's death. in the case of an owner's animal causing the death of another owner's animal or a person, the owner is liable and accountable for that. maybe there is a law, maybe there isnt a law but there is still accountability and the owner would be responsible.
take the case of biteme and his neighbor who wants to sue him. if his pet caused the death of the neighbors pets, then he is accountable for that. and there will be consequences - whatever our judicial system says the consequences are.

 

[jh1]

people go to prison for unintenionally killing humans though right?

Yes. She didn't kill the animal.


You're analogies and attempts to make connections are so far beyond reason at this point...

 

[Smurfy]

oh and i posted that link because in the case of Vick, what he did was clearly intentional all around.

 

[Lestat]

Did she hang or drowned an animal or sanction the fight?

That is a fucking stupid analogy.

Being charged after breaking the law is not a knee-jerk reaction. I can't even fathom your poiint of view except for just trying to stir the pot.

"But it was just a little felony and only a few animals"

I've never disputed that what he did was illegal, or wrong, or even cruel.

The outrage and attention this is getting is an emotional knee jerk.

I have realized that I am just different then a lot of people in this regard, and its not the first. I don't think we should be putting people in Prison for cruelty to animals. Doesn't feel right to me personally. People automatically read that and think it somehow means I don't think that animal cruelty is WRONG, or that I support Vick's actions. That couldn't be further from the truth.

I'm different from a lot of people in a lot of other ways as well, and I think its usually a pretty positive thing.

Ultimately I look at the world as a place I live in and try to shape my views and opinions to make it a place that *I* would like to live in.

Let me use another analogy that hits home for me.

I used to have snakes. A lot of people thought this was weird. Only weird people had snakes in their home. Afterall, god punished them after the fall right? They aren't cute and cuddly. Only a weirdo would have them. I'd hate for a bunch of people to get together and decide that my care for snakes was a crime.

But that would never happen right... that is too far fetched.

Well how about how I fed them. Live rats, except I didn't want my precious snakes to get hurt, so I'd step on the rats until they were dead, or at least paralyzed. Sometimes I'd put them in a bag and they'd suffocate, or even the freezer.

All very terrible ways to die. I didn't like that part of owning snakes. You only did it once every few weeks, but still, I felt like the rats had feelings.

What if a bunch of people decided my treatment of those rats constituted a felony? Wanted to send me to prison for it? I could argue all I wanted but I'd be powerless against the emotional majority.

The weird thing is, I can still go out, buy a rat that weighs a solid pound or two, kill it in any manner I see fit and its not a crime, it'd never make the news, and I'd never get punished for it.

Enter jnevi and others explaining how Vick isn't being charged for his actions on dogs... ZzzZZZZZzzzzzzzzz without the dogs, there would be no charges, period.

 

[army_stud]

I agree.

I am denounced for sticking up for Vick.

I was also denounced for implying that the government had any responsibility for the Katrina disaster!

The government had the responsibility for the Katrina disaster? Oh my god, I want to see that post...anyone??

Vick fucked up, they will use him as an example. That's the responsibility you take on when you choose to be a figure-head in society. And yes, playing professional sports in our society warrants this (sadly so).

Stop turning everything into race. The same would of happened if John Elway got caught doing the same.

Stop being a liberal monkey and grow a pair of balls.

 

[Lestat]

agreed man, agreed. there are bigger fish to fry. truth is, we love to see people lose everything. their money, love, reputation, life. we're sick fucks. heartless sick fucks.

I got that karma for this thread. It was from someone who doesn't usually agree with me, loves to get his/her digs in, but at least can realize when someone is talking common sense.

He/She brings up an excellent point that I have not DARED even bring into the mix because its nearly impossible to defend, although we can all relate and realize it.

Its also what I consider to be one of the fundamental differences between myself and the majority of others.

Seems like a LOT of people out there love to see the big guy fall. When someone makes it big, whether it be through luck or hard work, people automatically want to see that person fail, break town, torn down. It brings people pleasure to their own lives, makes them feel better about their own mistakes and short comings.

I identify with that feeling all too well, I used to feel it a lot. I thought that the worse other people do, the better I look! I figured the more people at the top that fall, the closer to the top I get. That is a truly miserable way to live life and I have long left it behind.

I find that not many people share my view now that I want to see others succeed. I want to see others happy. Even people who I do not like or care for, I'd rather see them happy than upset or sad. I know it doesn't make logical sense to many, its just how I am.

If someone who I have NEVER liked comes to me and says they lost their job, or a loved one, I feel sympathy and genuine concern. It didn't always come naturally, but now it does. I look at us as a country, and humans as a population as one living and breathing entity. We all face the same struggles and challenges and all pretty much want the same basic shit.

We also all make mistakes. Some are bigger than others, some easier to forget than others, but I definitely believe in second chances, I know I've been lucky enough to get a few in this life.

 

[jh1]

You were killing the rats for a reason to nurture other life, which is anagolus to us hunting as a species. And there is no intentional cruelty, torture, etc - any suffering is not for naught - and not for someone's sick entertainment.

There is clearly a difference.

The rest of society recognizes that difference and made appropriate laws. There is nothing 'KNEE JERK' about it - it has been a thoughtful process by the citizens and legislatures of ~48 seperate states that say it's a felony punishable by imprisonment.

 

[Smurfy]

I've never disputed that what he did was illegal, or wrong, or even cruel.

The outrage and attention this is getting is an emotional knee jerk.

I have realized that I am just different then a lot of people in this regard, and its not the first. I don't think we should be putting people in Prison for cruelty to animals. Doesn't feel right to me personally. People automatically read that and think it somehow means I don't think that animal cruelty is WRONG, or that I support Vick's actions. That couldn't be further from the truth.

I'm different from a lot of people in a lot of other ways as well, and I think its usually a pretty positive thing.

Ultimately I look at the world as a place I live in and try to shape my views and opinions to make it a place that *I* would like to live in.

Let me use another analogy that hits home for me.

I used to have snakes. A lot of people thought this was weird. Only weird people had snakes in their home. Afterall, god punished them after the fall right? They aren't cute and cuddly. Only a weirdo would have them. I'd hate for a bunch of people to get together and decide that my care for snakes was a crime.

But that would never happen right... that is too far fetched.

Well how about how I fed them. Live rats, except I didn't want my precious snakes to get hurt, so I'd step on the rats until they were dead, or at least paralyzed. Sometimes I'd put them in a bag and they'd suffocate, or even the freezer.

All very terrible ways to die. I didn't like that part of owning snakes. You only did it once every few weeks, but still, I felt like the rats had feelings.

What if a bunch of people decided my treatment of those rats constituted a felony? Wanted to send me to prison for it? I could argue all I wanted but I'd be powerless against the emotional majority.

The weird thing is, I can still go out, buy a rat that weighs a solid pound or two, kill it in any manner I see fit and its not a crime, it'd never make the news, and I'd never get punished for it.

Enter jnevi and others explaining how Vick isn't being charged for his actions on dogs... ZzzZZZZZzzzzzzzzz without the dogs, there would be no charges, period.

well i suppose it would be your own stupidity that would allow you to make such a stupid choice as to break a law knowing full well what the consequences are for it.
you act like he didnt know what the consequences were to his actions. or that somehow they suddenly changed the consequences and he is unlawfully going to prison. sending him to prison is not unlawful. its the consequence for his action that he knew full well. you keep using analogies but the fact of the matter is, like you said, killing a rat is not a crime (rats are pests BTW), so IF the law changed, and killing rats were to become illegal and you continued to do it knowing full well it's a crime, then cry me a river. that's your own fault for being a moron. and you deserve whatever punishment they courts give to you - whether that punishment is extreme by your standards or not.

 

[Lestat]

well i suppose it would be your own stupidity that would allow you to make such a stupid choice as to break a law knowing full well what the consequences are for it.
you act like he didnt know what the consequences were to his actions. or that somehow they suddenly changed the consequences and he is unlawfully going to prison. sending him to prison is not unlawful. its the consequence for his action that he knew full well. you keep using analogies but the fact of the matter is, like you said, killing a rat is not a crime (rats are pests BTW), so IF the law changed, and killing rats were to become illegal and you continued to do it knowing full well it's a crime, then cry me a river. that's your own fault for being a moron. and you deserve whatever punishment they courts give to you - whether that punishment is extreme by your standards or not.

again, I'm arguing about what punishments we assign to what crimes.

I do break the law frequently actually, I enjoy marijuana. Something that is a personal choice for me that a lot time ago a bunch of people felt like it was in the public's best interest to prohibit. I've often wondered what I'd do if I had to go to court for it. I understand that it is breaking the law, but I disagree with it. I do not think that generally speaking people should just break laws they disagree with. If I felt like it was appropriate, then what's to stop someone from thinking that murder was an ok law to break in some circumstance?

lol @ rats being pests. dogs are pests in some parts of the world too. For whatever reason we've given them near human like rights it seems when it comes to their treatment. thousands are put to death daily though, and apparently if its in a more human way its cool. I could even take my aging dog out and shoot him on a farm (if he was old and suffering) and it'd be all good.

 

[mountain muscle]

I've never disputed that what he did was illegal, or wrong, or even cruel.

The outrage and attention this is getting is an emotional knee jerk.

I have realized that I am just different then a lot of people in this regard, and its not the first. I don't think we should be putting people in Prison for cruelty to animals. Doesn't feel right to me personally. People automatically read that and think it somehow means I don't think that animal cruelty is WRONG, or that I support Vick's actions. That couldn't be further from the truth.

I'm different from a lot of people in a lot of other ways as well, and I think its usually a pretty positive thing.

Ultimately I look at the world as a place I live in and try to shape my views and opinions to make it a place that *I* would like to live in.

Let me use another analogy that hits home for me.

I used to have snakes. A lot of people thought this was weird. Only weird people had snakes in their home. Afterall, god punished them after the fall right? They aren't cute and cuddly. Only a weirdo would have them. I'd hate for a bunch of people to get together and decide that my care for snakes was a crime.

But that would never happen right... that is too far fetched.

Well how about how I fed them. Live rats, except I didn't want my precious snakes to get hurt, so I'd step on the rats until they were dead, or at least paralyzed. Sometimes I'd put them in a bag and they'd suffocate, or even the freezer.

All very terrible ways to die. I didn't like that part of owning snakes. You only did it once every few weeks, but still, I felt like the rats had feelings.

What if a bunch of people decided my treatment of those rats constituted a felony? Wanted to send me to prison for it? I could argue all I wanted but I'd be powerless against the emotional majority.

The weird thing is, I can still go out, buy a rat that weighs a solid pound or two, kill it in any manner I see fit and its not a crime, it'd never make the news, and I'd never get punished for it.

Enter jnevi and others explaining how Vick isn't being charged for his actions on dogs... ZzzZZZZZzzzzzzzzz without the dogs, there would be no charges, period.

He pled out on the FEDERAL dog fighting charges because the other charges had bigger penalties.

A rat analogy? Ask someone from NEw York on that one.

Again, he is being charged because he broke the law, well a few of them.

 

[Lestat]

He pled out on the FEDERAL dog fighting charges because the other charges had bigger penalties.

A rat analogy? Ask someone from NEw York on that one.

Again, he is being charged because he broke the law, well a few of them.

he should be charged, and punished. i think prison time is too severe for his case though.

 

[mountain muscle]

he should be charged, and punished. i think prison time is too severe for his case though.

Which part? You like to make a big deal out of the dog cruelty.


You can get jail time for enough speeding tickets.

 

[Lestat]

Which part? You like to make a big deal out of the dog cruelty.


You can get jail time for enough speeding tickets.

yeah, I think at some point you have to put a larger penalty out there or else what is to stop someone from never paying their tickets?

I think for the dog cruelty/fighting he should get some major fines and service work.

For the conspiracy/gambling, I'd do whatever other people have gotten punished for similar offenses and dollar amounts. I don't think there are a lot of people doing prison time for gambling rings that deal in the 25,000 range and below, but maybe I am wrong.

Also, this is his first offense right? Any other criminal record? Are there any "victims" at all in this crime? Anyone who can show damages? That was de frauded?

That is my big issue I guess. I've never been a fan of stiff penalties for "victimless crimes" which is what this is right?

If he had children kidnapped and fighting each other until the death and then executed them, I'd say life in prison (even the death penalty if I wasn't opposed to it on principle).

 

[PICK3]

"The World According to Lestat"

He has it all figured out.

just sayin

 

[mountain muscle]

yeah, I think at some point you have to put a larger penalty out there or else what is to stop someone from never paying their tickets?

I think for the dog cruelty/fighting he should get some major fines and service work.

For the conspiracy/gambling, I'd do whatever other people have gotten punished for similar offenses and dollar amounts. I don't think there are a lot of people doing prison time for gambling rings that deal in the 25,000 range and below, but maybe I am wrong.

Also, this is his first offense right? Any other criminal record? Are there any "victims" at all in this crime? Anyone who can show damages? That was de frauded?

That is my big issue I guess. I've never been a fan of stiff penalties for "victimless crimes" which is what this is right?

If he had children kidnapped and fighting each other until the death and then executed them, I'd say life in prison (even the death penalty if I wasn't opposed to it on principle).

Is racketeering a victimless crime? Illegal gambling falls under that category.
He had to do with millions in dollars. Not 25K, well maybe per fight. You do the math.
You won't even acknowledge that a man with a 20 million/year contract with nike, not to mention signing bonus and salary decided to fund and run a dog fighting ring while torturing innocent animals trying to make money. But wait, it was only 25k! That makes it even worse.
Since 25k is no big deal, send me 25k.

What part do you not get? EVERYTHING he did was ILLEGAL. All you are thinking of was dogs.

How many animals have you tortured and killed while smoking pot?

 

[Lestat]

Is racketeering a victimless crime? Illegal gambling falls under that category.
He had to do with millions in dollars. Not 25K, well maybe per fight. You do the math.
You won't even acknowledge that a man with a 20 million/year contract with nike, not to mention signing bonus and salary decided to fund and run a dog fighting ring while torturing innocent animals trying to make money. But wait, it was only 25k! That makes it even worse.
Since 25k is no big deal, send me 25k.

What part do you not get? EVERYTHING he did was ILLEGAL. All you are thinking of was dogs.

How many animals have you tortured and killed while smoking pot?

That's my point, I don't think that I tortured and killed animals, but some people keep rats as pets, train them to do tricks, I am sure a large group of people could argue that what I did was torturing and kill, regardless of the motives. If I somehow was left with just me, and that group of people in the world, I'd be fucked.

Vick was stupid for getting involved at all. It was not for the money, he never took any of it, that is why the whole conspiracy and rackateering is just lame, its not like this was a large outfit that was moving millions. He should be punished, no doubt, for being a dumbass and cruel to dogs. Basically a glorified slap on the wrist, and since he is a high profile athelete, a large fine can't be argued against. BAM! No victims but goverment gets its due, big time, a piece of Michael Vick.

 

[mountain muscle]

That's my point, I don't think that I tortured and killed animals, but some people keep rats as pets, train them to do tricks, I am sure a large group of people could argue that what I did was torturing and kill, regardless of the motives. If I somehow was left with just me, and that group of people in the world, I'd be fucked.

Vick was stupid for getting involved at all. It was not for the money, he never took any of it, that is why the whole conspiracy and rackateering is just lame, its not like this was a large outfit that was moving millions. He should be punished, no doubt, for being a dumbass and cruel to dogs. Basically a glorified slap on the wrist, and since he is a high profile athelete, a large fine can't be argued against. BAM! No victims but goverment gets its due, big time, a piece of Michael Vick.

Wow, you must be high again.

 

[Smurfy]

again, I'm arguing about what punishments we assign to what crimes.

oh ok, there's an easy answer to that. either write to your congressman to change the laws - or, if you think the penalties are too stiff, then dont commit the crimes. Seems pretty simple to me. The point is, be aware of the risks of your own behavior and the potential consequences for your actions. But dont cry about it after you've been caught doing something illegal.

 

[Smurfy]

That's my point, I don't think that I tortured and killed animals, but some people keep rats as pets, train them to do tricks, I am sure a large group of people could argue that what I did was torturing and kill, regardless of the motives. If I somehow was left with just me, and that group of people in the world, I'd be fucked.

Vick was stupid for getting involved at all. It was not for the money, he never took any of it, that is why the whole conspiracy and rackateering is just lame, its not like this was a large outfit that was moving millions. He should be punished, no doubt, for being a dumbass and cruel to dogs. Basically a glorified slap on the wrist, and since he is a high profile athelete, a large fine can't be argued against. BAM! No victims but goverment gets its due, big time, a piece of Michael Vick.

who are you claiming is a victim here?

 

[blueta2]

Lestat, I posted the article not because I agree with what Vick did, but because I agree that it's odd that he is being persecuted for killing dogs, yet we slaughter animals daily and that goes unnoticed.
I'm not sure where the law of nature begins and ends when it comes to animals, but to knowingly torture and kill animals for fun is a sickness of the mind and I personally do not want creeps like that being allowed to go unpunished.
Being a die hard animal lover, it kills me to think of any animals being tortured. Training dogs to fight and then killing them once they are done is heinous.
What Vick did is just as heinous as any fool running a puppy mill or the next door neighbor who leaves their cat out all winter to freeze and die.
There is an unwritten law expected of humans that we need to follow to keep some grace and morals in society.
Unfortunately we will never eradicate the “sick” from the human cesspool.
Vick is kind of "famous" so maybe his punishment will show others they cannot behave this way and society will NOT allow it or accept it.
Anyone who tortured or harms animals is clearly immoral, unkind and has some fucking sensitivity chip missing from their brains.
Putting someone behind bars for weed or a traffic fine is plain stupid. Yes both are illegal, but the dude growing and smoking weed for his own benefit is not hurting society.
But like Smurfy said, these are laws and they have to be followed.
We make laws to keep peace in society, not all are correct, but the law of harming or torturing an animal or human is basically a law of nature.
As humans we always claim we are so superior over animals (when in fact we are animals), well then we need to conduct ourselves superior over the animal in the jungle who takes down a zebra to torture it before it’s killed.
If we are going to eat meat, we need to do like the Indians did and kill the animal with the least amount of pain, let it roam before it dies and then be thankful we were given its life to feed our own.
Any other way of living is not acting superior. Clearly Vick and et. are not very superior beings.

 

[Lestat]

who are you claiming is a victim here?

There aren't any that I see. The dogs?

I don't think the rackateering or conspirarcy led to the public being defrauded or put in harms way.

Ultimately I believe it is a "victimless crime" (unless we give dogs a near human status), which one of the reasons why the punishment seems extreme.

My point about No Victims that you highlighted means that despite the fact that no one was really wronged, they still can levy a huge fine. Similar to what happens in drug cases.

 

[gotmilk]

I think most people are realizing that this is an emotional issue with a knee jerk over reaction.

Really? Because everyone I have seen are stating Vick is a piece of shit. In fact, the very few people who stuck up for Mike 2 weeks ago and now not supporting him. Do you see any of his teammates claiming Vick is being treated unfairly?

My friend let her cat out on Friday and it got into a fight with another cat and is now dead.

Intentional or not, should she face any charges?

WTF are you talking about Abe? Did someone grab the cat by the throat and hold it under water for 2 minutes while it thrashed around?

 

[gotmilk]

You're analogies and attempts to make connections are so far beyond reason at this point...

But...Four score and seven years from now you'll finally understand it.