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I'm really not a dick

Lestat said:
yeah, I think at some point you have to put a larger penalty out there or else what is to stop someone from never paying their tickets?

I think for the dog cruelty/fighting he should get some major fines and service work.

For the conspiracy/gambling, I'd do whatever other people have gotten punished for similar offenses and dollar amounts. I don't think there are a lot of people doing prison time for gambling rings that deal in the 25,000 range and below, but maybe I am wrong.

Also, this is his first offense right? Any other criminal record? Are there any "victims" at all in this crime? Anyone who can show damages? That was de frauded?

That is my big issue I guess. I've never been a fan of stiff penalties for "victimless crimes" which is what this is right?

If he had children kidnapped and fighting each other until the death and then executed them, I'd say life in prison (even the death penalty if I wasn't opposed to it on principle).


Is racketeering a victimless crime? Illegal gambling falls under that category.
He had to do with millions in dollars. Not 25K, well maybe per fight. You do the math.
You won't even acknowledge that a man with a 20 million/year contract with nike, not to mention signing bonus and salary decided to fund and run a dog fighting ring while torturing innocent animals trying to make money. But wait, it was only 25k! That makes it even worse.
Since 25k is no big deal, send me 25k.

What part do you not get? EVERYTHING he did was ILLEGAL. All you are thinking of was dogs.

How many animals have you tortured and killed while smoking pot?
 
mountain muscle said:
Is racketeering a victimless crime? Illegal gambling falls under that category.
He had to do with millions in dollars. Not 25K, well maybe per fight. You do the math.
You won't even acknowledge that a man with a 20 million/year contract with nike, not to mention signing bonus and salary decided to fund and run a dog fighting ring while torturing innocent animals trying to make money. But wait, it was only 25k! That makes it even worse.
Since 25k is no big deal, send me 25k.

What part do you not get? EVERYTHING he did was ILLEGAL. All you are thinking of was dogs.

How many animals have you tortured and killed while smoking pot?
That's my point, I don't think that I tortured and killed animals, but some people keep rats as pets, train them to do tricks, I am sure a large group of people could argue that what I did was torturing and kill, regardless of the motives. If I somehow was left with just me, and that group of people in the world, I'd be fucked.

Vick was stupid for getting involved at all. It was not for the money, he never took any of it, that is why the whole conspiracy and rackateering is just lame, its not like this was a large outfit that was moving millions. He should be punished, no doubt, for being a dumbass and cruel to dogs. Basically a glorified slap on the wrist, and since he is a high profile athelete, a large fine can't be argued against. BAM! No victims but goverment gets its due, big time, a piece of Michael Vick.
 
Lestat said:
That's my point, I don't think that I tortured and killed animals, but some people keep rats as pets, train them to do tricks, I am sure a large group of people could argue that what I did was torturing and kill, regardless of the motives. If I somehow was left with just me, and that group of people in the world, I'd be fucked.

Vick was stupid for getting involved at all. It was not for the money, he never took any of it, that is why the whole conspiracy and rackateering is just lame, its not like this was a large outfit that was moving millions. He should be punished, no doubt, for being a dumbass and cruel to dogs. Basically a glorified slap on the wrist, and since he is a high profile athelete, a large fine can't be argued against. BAM! No victims but goverment gets its due, big time, a piece of Michael Vick.

Wow, you must be high again.
 
Lestat said:
again, I'm arguing about what punishments we assign to what crimes.
oh ok, there's an easy answer to that. either write to your congressman to change the laws - or, if you think the penalties are too stiff, then dont commit the crimes. Seems pretty simple to me. The point is, be aware of the risks of your own behavior and the potential consequences for your actions. But dont cry about it after you've been caught doing something illegal.
 
Lestat said:
That's my point, I don't think that I tortured and killed animals, but some people keep rats as pets, train them to do tricks, I am sure a large group of people could argue that what I did was torturing and kill, regardless of the motives. If I somehow was left with just me, and that group of people in the world, I'd be fucked.

Vick was stupid for getting involved at all. It was not for the money, he never took any of it, that is why the whole conspiracy and rackateering is just lame, its not like this was a large outfit that was moving millions. He should be punished, no doubt, for being a dumbass and cruel to dogs. Basically a glorified slap on the wrist, and since he is a high profile athelete, a large fine can't be argued against. BAM! No victims but goverment gets its due, big time, a piece of Michael Vick.
who are you claiming is a victim here?
 
Lestat, I posted the article not because I agree with what Vick did, but because I agree that it's odd that he is being persecuted for killing dogs, yet we slaughter animals daily and that goes unnoticed.
I'm not sure where the law of nature begins and ends when it comes to animals, but to knowingly torture and kill animals for fun is a sickness of the mind and I personally do not want creeps like that being allowed to go unpunished.
Being a die hard animal lover, it kills me to think of any animals being tortured. Training dogs to fight and then killing them once they are done is heinous.
What Vick did is just as heinous as any fool running a puppy mill or the next door neighbor who leaves their cat out all winter to freeze and die.
There is an unwritten law expected of humans that we need to follow to keep some grace and morals in society.
Unfortunately we will never eradicate the “sick” from the human cesspool.
Vick is kind of "famous" so maybe his punishment will show others they cannot behave this way and society will NOT allow it or accept it.
Anyone who tortured or harms animals is clearly immoral, unkind and has some fucking sensitivity chip missing from their brains.
Putting someone behind bars for weed or a traffic fine is plain stupid. Yes both are illegal, but the dude growing and smoking weed for his own benefit is not hurting society.
But like Smurfy said, these are laws and they have to be followed.
We make laws to keep peace in society, not all are correct, but the law of harming or torturing an animal or human is basically a law of nature.
As humans we always claim we are so superior over animals (when in fact we are animals), well then we need to conduct ourselves superior over the animal in the jungle who takes down a zebra to torture it before it’s killed.
If we are going to eat meat, we need to do like the Indians did and kill the animal with the least amount of pain, let it roam before it dies and then be thankful we were given its life to feed our own.
Any other way of living is not acting superior. Clearly Vick and et. are not very superior beings.
 
Smurfy said:
who are you claiming is a victim here?
There aren't any that I see. The dogs?

I don't think the rackateering or conspirarcy led to the public being defrauded or put in harms way.

Ultimately I believe it is a "victimless crime" (unless we give dogs a near human status), which one of the reasons why the punishment seems extreme.

My point about No Victims that you highlighted means that despite the fact that no one was really wronged, they still can levy a huge fine. Similar to what happens in drug cases.
 
Lestat said:
I think most people are realizing that this is an emotional issue with a knee jerk over reaction.

Really? Because everyone I have seen are stating Vick is a piece of shit. In fact, the very few people who stuck up for Mike 2 weeks ago and now not supporting him. Do you see any of his teammates claiming Vick is being treated unfairly?


My friend let her cat out on Friday and it got into a fight with another cat and is now dead.

Intentional or not, should she face any charges?

WTF are you talking about Abe? Did someone grab the cat by the throat and hold it under water for 2 minutes while it thrashed around?
 
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