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i'm not trying to get a powerlifter's body, would 5x5 still be beneficial for me?

B

bentleychris23

New member
hi, i'm looking to mass up and eventually develop a cut, attractive physique. I've seen a lot of programs that are traditional splits, incorporating compound and isolation lifts. Then i've seen other programs like 5x5 that are based more on the big compound lifts. At 5'11 156, which route is the better route to go? i know it's all about diet but there has to be some difference in results by either incorporating isolation lifts in a split or doing compound lifts 3x a week. i wouldn't say i'm weak and have been working out for some time. i can bench 215 and squat 315 for around 5 reps. thanks
 
I run a 5x5 program and am seeing good results from it. IMO any routine that doesn't include compund lifts like squats and deads just does'nt cut it. I worked on isolation programs for years and am seeing better strength gains as well as muscle gains on the 5x5. That has just been my personal experience some may have done very well with iso splits but I am really enjoying the 5x5 workout.
 
Any program for a beginner that is getting them stronger throughout their body should work pretty well for size gains if their diet is good..
 
yeah that makes sense. i'm not trying to come across as ignorant but i'm working out for appearance as well as strength. a lot of appearance is the showy muscles, bi's tri's calves, you know, the typical ones everyone wants to build. will they still get developed with a program like 5x5
 
bentleychris23 said:
yeah that makes sense. i'm not trying to come across as ignorant but i'm working out for appearance as well as strength. a lot of appearance is the showy muscles, bi's tri's calves, you know, the typical ones everyone wants to build. will they still get developed with a program like 5x5
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Yes. You are still working those muscles your just doing it through compund lifts pushing and pulling. Also I take a day and do just bi's/tri's and mix that in between my 5x5. Strength gains=muscle gains=improved appearance. If you are not getting stronger your muscles are not growing.
 
Go with the big compound lifts, you need the strength gains and testosterone surge to increase the size of your muscles. There's a great article out there calles Squatting for Big Arms, you should read it.
 
Any training program not based around the squat, bench press, deadlift, and overhead press is a bad program. Everything else is just semantics.
 
true, also for someone intermediate like myself would i need to run the deloading weeks? or i could just keep doing the volume training with fridays going up by 2.5% i'm skinny at around 155 but am not weak, i can max bench around 225 which i wouldn't say is bad for me.
 
bentleychris23 said:
true, also for someone intermediate like myself would i need to run the deloading weeks? or i could just keep doing the volume training with fridays going up by 2.5% i'm skinny at around 155 but am not weak, i can max bench around 225 which i wouldn't say is bad for me.
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As long as your lifts keep increasing I would not deload at all. Your body will let you know when it is time. If you try the same weight a total of 3x and can't get it is time to deload and ramp back up!
 
Skinny = Weak. You might be strong for a skinny guy, but you're still not strong. If you want to add strength and mass, eat anything in sight. Don't be a picky health food only nerd or you'll end up... skinny. You can lift weights more effectively and efficiently than Arnold, but if you don't eat a ton you'll still be.... skinny. Eat like it's your job, then when you get to about 205, start cutting. Still lift heavy, but cut the sugar and carbs out, pick up some cardio, and you'll be a beast. It is easy when you put your mind to it.
 
If you're talking about the madcow 5x5, you should be doing the intermediate version, not the advanced version. There are no deload weeks programmed into the intermediate version.
 
On Strong Lift 5x5 you are to keep increasing weight by 5lbs every workout. 10lbs on deadlifts. When you reach a weight that you cannot perform 5 sets of 5 you try again when that workout comes back in the rotation. If unsuccessful the second time try same weight one more time. If unsuccesful deload to 80% of largest weight used and ramp back up at 5lbs per or 10lbs per on deads.
 
You cant beat the various 5x5 programs in general. If you do the program and eat you will see reslults. As far as getting to look like a power lifter, it isnt gonna happen to a person your size overnight bro.
 
ok cool, for someone my size, skinny...should i do stronglifts and forget the once a week increase by 2.5% percent? in stronglifts you just keep going up every workout if you're able to if i'm not mistaken
 
bentleychris23 said:
ok cool, for someone my size, skinny...should i do stronglifts and forget the once a week increase by 2.5% percent? in stronglifts you just keep going up every workout if you're able to if i'm not mistaken
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You are exactly correct. That is the routine I use and that is the one i would recomend for you because it works. At first it may seem like it is too light and your not doing much but start this program exactly as it is written and work your way up and you will be happy. Then once you have done this for say 12 months you will have enough experience to take it on your own from there. TRUST the program.
 
ok thanks a lot i appreciate the help. one last question when it says ramp up the weight for a 5x5 exercise, do they mean do your warmup sets and then do a consistent weight for 5 sets of 5 reps. or do they mean increase weight every set till you reach for 5 rep max for the 5th set. i'm a little confused about that
 
bentleychris23 said:
ok thanks a lot i appreciate the help. one last question when it says ramp up the weight for a 5x5 exercise, do they mean do your warmup sets and then do a consistent weight for 5 sets of 5 reps. or do they mean increase weight every set till you reach for 5 rep max for the 5th set. i'm a little confused about that
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Use a warm up weight. 2 sets warm up up to 10 reps. Then choose a weight inbetween your workout weight and the warm up weight you used. Do 1 set x5 with that weight. Then your workout weight 5x5 on each excersize. Consistent weight on your 5x5 bro!
 
bentleychris23 said:
ok thanks a lot i appreciate the help. one last question when it says ramp up the weight for a 5x5 exercise, do they mean do your warmup sets and then do a consistent weight for 5 sets of 5 reps. or do they mean increase weight every set till you reach for 5 rep max for the 5th set. i'm a little confused about that
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I dont count warm-ups for the 5x5. and i go really light on those 2-3 warm-up sets (bar x 8-15, then 100 x 5, then 115x 2-5) then stretch, to keep from stalling on the 5x5 for the day.
are you talking about finding your 5x5 max or for the general workout?
 
brownbrown said:
I dont count warm-ups for the 5x5. and i go really light on those 2-3 warm-up sets (bar x 8-15, then 100 x 5, then 115x 2-5) then stretch, to keep from stalling on the 5x5 for the day.
are you talking about finding your 5x5 max or for the general workout?
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No Brown he was asking do you ramp up during the 5x5 or keep the weight consistent. I do mine exactly as you stated. Funny seeing the wannabees in the gym looking at me like I am crazy when they see me using the bar. Then when the plates go on the facial expression changes dramatically!:D
 
obsessedwliftin said:
No Brown he was asking do you ramp up during the 5x5 or keep the weight consistent. I do mine exactly as you stated. Funny seeing the wannabees in the gym looking at me like I am crazy when they see me using the bar. Then when the plates go on the facial expression changes dramatically!:D
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Ditto!!

Site wont allow me to K ya again... :(
 
Most of this was already said but just wanted to put it all in 1 easy to read post. This is the author's recommendation for the Stronglifts 5x5 routine:

"Stronglifts 5x5" Routine

3 days a week alternating between an A and B day, doing only the exercises listed below. For example you might do this M/W/F every week. Any 3 nonconsecutive days a week are suitable.

Workout A
Squat 5x5
Bench Press 5x5
Barbell Rows 5x5

Workout B
Squat 5x5
Overhead Press 5x5
Deadlift 1x5

Always do the exercises in the same order as listed.

5x5 means 5 working sets of 5 at the same weight. 1x5 means 1 working set of 5.

These sets should always be preceded by 2-3 warmup sets (depending on how much weight you are lifting). There's no need to ever exceed 5 reps on your warmup sets. The object isn't to fatigue yourself, it's to warm up. The author gives, as an example, the following:

Say your working weight was 135 on squats:
· 2×5 45lbs => 2 sets of 5 reps with the empty Olympic bar
· 3 x 90lbs => 1 set of 3 reps with the 45lbs bar + 22.5lbs/side
· 5 x 135lbs => first set of 5 reps with your work weight
· 5 x 135lbs => 2nd set of 5 reps with your work weight
· 5 x 135lbs => 3rd set of 5 reps with your work weight
· 5 x 135lbs => 4th set of 5 reps with your work weight
· 5 x 135lbs => 5th and final set of 5 reps with your work weight

The author strongly recommends starting with the empty bar in week 1 for bench, squats, and overhead press. He recommends starting with 95 and 65 lbs on deadlift and barbell rows. He goes on to say, however, that if you have been lifting weights during the past months and are highly familiar with all the lifts in the program, then you can start with 50% of your 5 rep max on each lift.

Every time you repeat an exercise (on a new day), you add 5 lbs to each exercise (that's 2.5 lbs on each side of the bar). Deadlifts is an exception to this; instead of 5 pounds, add 10 pounds every time you deadlift (5 lbs on each side of the bar). When you can no longer add 10 lbs per side on deadlift, then you switch to adding 5 lbs per workout.

When eventually you stall on a lift, keep attempting that same weight for 2 more workouts. If you still cannot hit it, then reduce the weight only on that lift by 10% (or in other words multiply whatever weight you stalled at by 0.9) and start over adding 5 lbs a workout.

This is a beginner program. You will eventually stall. Once you need to deload 2x on the same exercise, the author recommends switching to "Stronglifts 3x5" routine.

That sums it up.
 
obsessedwliftin said:
No Brown he was asking do you ramp up during the 5x5 or keep the weight consistent. I do mine exactly as you stated. Funny seeing the wannabees in the gym looking at me like I am crazy when they see me using the bar. Then when the plates go on the facial expression changes dramatically!:D
Click to expand...

Amen!

Last week I box squatted 913 and I started with body weight. On my first set with the 50 lb bar my training partners were already coaching me. Head up, tight arch, ARCH ARCH ARCH, SPEED!!!

It all starts with the bar man!
 
ON the STrongLifts program right now and am lovin it !
 
b fold the truth said:
Amen!

Last week I box squatted 913 and I started with body weight. On my first set with the 50 lb bar my training partners were already coaching me. Head up, tight arch, ARCH ARCH ARCH, SPEED!!!

It all starts with the bar man!
Click to expand...

Amen brother!

Zed- I love it to man. Wish I would have found this routine much earlier in my trianing journey!
 
thanks for all the help guys. one last question. i know that compound lifts are the way to go for growing. but for example if i'm doing just squats, bench, bent rows, deadlifts, military press and a few curls and dips..will all my muscles grow? like for example my traps, or rear delts, or calves. those muscles aren't really directly hit are they? maybe i'm wrong..but isn't that where the isolation exercises come in handy?
 
Your traps will be hit harder through deadlifts than through any other exercise. You can always add in some light assistance work for rear delts and calves, but at this point it should not be priority. Realistically, if your legs and back are growing significantly then your smaller muscles will have to grow to keep up. Ever see a guy with legs like tree trunks and narrow unsupported shoulders? Doesn't happen too often.
 
Traps get hit hard by deadlifts. Rear delts get hit by rows, and to an extent deadlifts and ohp. The only thing that isn't really hit in this routine is calves. You could throw in a few sets on one or more days a week, if you're set on doing it.

Beware though, if you start adding exercises to this, then you aren't doing Stronglifts 5x5; you're doing your own program. Doing something like 3x10 calf raises a couple times a week isn't going to effect your other lifts, but when you start adding sets of dips and pullups and what not, it may effect your lifts/inhibit your recovery (depending on what you're doing).

None of the high frequency compound lift full body workouts designed for beginners have isolation work included in them. They are all high volume and high volume, so adding extra work generally isn't a good idea. Moreover, it's unnecessary. When you progress to an intermediate level then you will benefit from more breadth in your exercise selection, for example, to bring up weak areas or lagging body parts. As a beginner, there are no lagging body parts, because your whole body is a weak area.
 
ok fair enough. thanks. i've actually been doing the madcow 5x5 where it says to do ramping weights and a little tri/bi assistance work, not much at all though. i feel like the ramping will enable me to hit higher weight without being absolutely dead from squatting 3x a week.
 
I squat 3 times a week and love it. I do cardio 6 days a week and my lifts continue to improve. It is really about trusting the program you choose and doing it.
 
Yeah that makes, it's just hard / different adjusting from doing 5x a week split routines to seemingly less exercises but bigger lifts, only 3x a week. I'm used to having that gym pump every day you know? But I guess in the end it's not the pump it's how much you actually grow
 
People ask me all the time what I do for my traps...and I only do the core lifts. But if you want to do other things...limit yourself to 10 minutes at the end of every session. Do whatever you want as long as it isn't stupid.
 
Hey obsessed, how come so much cardio bro?
 
I am just bound and determined to get to 10% bf bro and at almost 40 yrs old it's hard to do. My diet is dialed in, my training routine is goo but that last 2 to 3 % keeps hanging on. So I have tried to ramp up on fasted Cardio to try and eliminate it. I am afraid that if I drop cals any further even on the cutting cycle I am on may lose size so the only thing I knew to do is add Cardio. Any suggestions you have zed would be greatly appreciated bro. I get right on the edge of being shredded and just have not gotten over the hill and I have that as a goal that I want to accomplish. Sorry for long response bro.

Posted with my Droid EO Forum App
 
Is there a difference between madcow 5x5 and stronglifts 5x5? how do i choose which one to do? is stronglifts better for beginner and how we decide if one is a begginer or intermidiate?
 
i read on a thread and some guy wrote something like "while on 5x5 just dedicate one separate day to all the showy muscles that you feel are being neglected...bi's tri's calves traps, whatever"...would that be such a bad idea?
 
NOLOGY77 said:
Is there a difference between madcow 5x5 and stronglifts 5x5? how do i choose which one to do? is stronglifts better for beginner and how we decide if one is a begginer or intermidiate?
Click to expand...

Stronglifts 5x5 is a beginner routine. It is on a similar level to the Rippetoes 3x5 routine. Madcow is an intermediate routine. There are other Stronglifts routines for intermediate and advanced lifters.

Generally, a beginner routine is better for a beginner because a beginner routine has the trainee making progress on a workout-to-workout basis. An intermediate routine has the trainee making progress on a week-to-week basis.

By extension, if you are still at a point where you can make workout-to-workout progress, whether because you are a true beginner (0-9 months working out generally) or because you are returning from an off period, then it's better to choose a beginner routine. If you can no longer do that, then you are an intermediate and it's time to plan for weekly progress instead of workout-to-workout progress.

By contrast, if you are an intermediate trying to do a beginner workout, you are going to plateau very quickly. And if you are a beginner trying to do a intermediate workout, then you are wasting time by progressing much slower than you are actually able.
 
_cato_ said:
Stronglifts 5x5 is a beginner routine. It is on a similar level to the Rippetoes 3x5 routine. Madcow is an intermediate routine. There are other Stronglifts routines for intermediate and advanced lifters.

Generally, a beginner routine is better for a beginner because a beginner routine has the trainee making progress on a workout-to-workout basis. An intermediate routine has the trainee making progress on a week-to-week basis.

By extension, if you are still at a point where you can make workout-to-workout progress, whether because you are a true beginner (0-9 months working out generally) or because you are returning from an off period, then it's better to choose a beginner routine. If you can no longer do that, then you are an intermediate and it's time to plan for weekly progress instead of workout-to-workout progress.

By contrast, if you are an intermediate trying to do a beginner workout, you are going to plateau very quickly. And if you are a beginner trying to do a intermediate workout, then you are wasting time by progressing much slower than you are actually able.
Click to expand...
I really like the advanced routine. A LOT better than the Intermediate.
 
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