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napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsResearch Chemical SciencesUGFREAKeudomestic

I'm discouraged with 5x5 mad cow. Please help!

or you need to change the training, the 5x5 doesnt work forever and personally I hate it. Which ever solution you choose I would start by doing a deload week.
Interesting. Would love to hear from your perspective why you hate the 5X5. I'll admit, it is starting to get a bit boring but if I can make gains, I won't stop. What work out do you do and how would you compare your training program to the 5x5?
 


based on your recommendations, i adjusted the meal plan as follows. Didn't follow exactly everything you suggested, but made adjustments based on what your shared with me.

Meal 1:
6 eggs (4 yolk)
2 trader Joe flax oatmeal packets
Banana

Meal 2:
2 scoops Pro-max
Whole Milk
2 slices of Ezekiel bread

Meal 3:
2 chicken cutlets (whole wheat bread crumbs)
Spinach

PWO Shake:
1 scoop Hydro-whey (optimum nutrition)
2 scoop 2-1-1 recovery (optimum nutrition)
Banana & Apple

Meal 4 (non-workout days):
Pro-max optimum nutrition shake
Whole Milk
Berries (black/blue/raspberries)

Meal 5:
Filet Mignon
Asparagus
Yams

Meal 6:

2 scoops of Casein
Whole Milk
Almonds & Walnuts

AS for the bread. Are you saying there is no nutritional value in Ezekiel bread. Here are the ingredients in Ezekiel bread Sprouted wheat
Filtered water
Sprouted barley
Sprouted millet
Malted barley
Sprouted lentils
Sprouted soybeans
Sprouted spelt
Fresh yeast
Wheat gluten
Sea salt


As for the 2-1-1 recovery. Reason why I use 2 scoops of that is because it's more focused on carbohydrates then protien. So i have to add 1 scoop of hydro to get 50 grams of protien altogether.
 


based on your recommendations, i adjusted the meal plan as follows. Didn't follow exactly everything you suggested, but made adjustments based on what your shared with me.

Meal 1:
6 eggs (4 yolk) <-- that is only aprox 32g protein, the serving I suggested was 50g
2 trader Joe flax oatmeal packets <-- the reason I suggested regular oats is because Im guessing this is flax seeds and contains high fat... you already have a serving of healthy fats in the egg yolkes though.
Banana

Meal 2:
2 scoops Pro-max
Whole Milk
2 slices of Ezekiel bread <-- I suggested using the bread in the other meal to make a sandwich with spinnach leaves because its an easy way to get in a good meal without much fuss.

Meal 3:
2 chicken cutlets (whole wheat bread crumbs)
Spinach <-- this meal has no source of fat and Im guessing very low carb content since your just using bread crumbs... either that or its a packeted processed piece of bread crumbed chicken from the frozen food section. Either way its not great imo. This is a pre workout meal - you need quality carbs

PWO Shake:
1 scoop Hydro-whey (optimum nutrition)
2 scoop 2-1-1 recovery (optimum nutrition) <-- doesnt matter what brand you use, but if the protein powder contains lots of carbs then there may be no need for additional fruit.
Banana & Apple

Meal 4 (non-workout days):
Pro-max optimum nutrition shake
Whole Milk
Berries (black/blue/raspberries) <-- good idea

Meal 5:
Filet Mignon
Asparagus
Yams

Meal 6:
2 scoops of Casein
Whole Milk
Almonds & Walnuts <-- watch out for over eating on fats with milk and nuts in the same meal. Nuts can be very dense in fats

AS for the bread. Are you saying there is no nutritional value in Ezekiel bread. Im saying its easy to find a source of carbs that provides more vitamins and minerals (fruit) and there are sources that provide similar nutrition without the bloating effect of bread. Use it if you want, you may have no problem with bloating. I would use it if I could.

Here are the ingredients in Ezekiel bread Sprouted wheat
Filtered water
Sprouted barley
Sprouted millet
Malted barley
Sprouted lentils
Sprouted soybeans
Sprouted spelt
Fresh yeast
Wheat gluten
Sea salt


As for the 2-1-1 recovery. Reason why I use 2 scoops of that is because it's more focused on carbohydrates then protien. So i have to add 1 scoop of hydro to get 50 grams of protien altogether.

there you go I listed the reasons behind each suggestion

personally I would drop one of the shake meals for some real food but then again observing your gains will give you better feed back on your diet than anything anyone else can suggest. Thats the key, it looks pretty good overall though.

I dont like 5x5 because its boring as hell and doesnt allow for great recovery inbetween sessions.
 
EM
Meal 1:
6 eggs (4 yolk) <-- that is only aprox 32g protein, the serving I suggested was 50g
O.k. I will go with your suggestion on this one then

EM
2 trader Joe flax oatmeal packets <-- the reason I suggested regular oats is because Im guessing this is flax seeds and contains high fat... you already have a serving of healthy fats in the egg yolkes though.

Convenience is important and I am addicted to the trader joe email. (not switching) Here are the ingredients though if it helps...

Nutrition Facts
Serving Size: 1 packet
Amount per Serving
Calories 150
Calories from Fat 18.0
Total Fat 2g
Saturated Fat 0g
Cholesterol 0mg
Sodium 130mg
Total Carbohydrate 29g
Dietary Fiber 3g
Sugars 11g
Protein 4g



EMI suggested using the bread in the other meal to make a sandwich with spinnach leaves because its an easy way to get in a good meal without much fuss.

Going to be a pickle on this one. I hate sandwhiches from home. I'll gag on it. What if I switch this to 1 serving of a bowl of whole wheat pasta with a little marinara in it? (Or have the whole wheat pasta in the next meal with chicken cutlets - whatever I eat pre-workout)

EM
Meal 3:
2 chicken cutlets (whole wheat bread crumbs)
Spinach <-- this meal has no source of fat and Im guessing very low carb content since your just using bread crumbs...

AS for the source of fat, I am cooking the chicken cutlets in olive oil. Should eat some almonds with this meal on top of it? (once again, I'll add whole wheat pasta to this meal if it's for pre-workout.

EM
PWO Shake:
1 scoop Hydro-whey (optimum nutrition)
2 scoop 2-1-1 recovery (optimum nutrition) <-- doesnt matter what brand you use, but if the protein powder contains lots of carbs then there may be no need for additional fruit.

How many carbs should I have post workout then? Also, as I get a bit tired towards the end of the workout, whats your thoughts on eating a banana half way through?


EM
Almonds & Walnuts <-- watch out for over eating on fats with milk and nuts in the same meal. Nuts can be very dense in fats

So should I cut out the nuts in this meal then?


EMIm saying its easy to find a source of carbs that provides more vitamins and minerals (fruit) and there are sources that provide similar nutrition without the bloating effect of bread. Use it if you want, you may have no problem with bloating. I would use it if I could.

I'm willing to forget this bread and replace it with an apple/banana and more berries if you think that's better? Thoughts?


EMpersonally I would drop one of the shake meals for some real food but then again observing your gains will give you better feed back on your diet than anything anyone else can suggest.

I'll replace one of the shake meals 2-4 times a week and go out for sushi when I have the time.

EMI don't like 5x5 because its boring as hell and doesn't allow for great recovery in between sessions.

As far as not allowing for full recovery, in between sessions, I was wondering if I should drop the 6th set on Fridays and have Mondays be 4X5. haha. Hear you on that!

So what workout are you doing now? Would love to hear about it if you don't mind sharing.
 
The oatmeal is fine, I was thinking of a different product.

Wholemeal pasta is fine for a source of carbs.

Leave the chicken cutlets for now then and see how you go.

Eat the same amounts of protein/carbs/fats per meal for now. That should answer your question on post w/o carbs and if you need nuts at certain meals.

If you don't gain fat easily and don't get bloated from bread then you can use it.

Keep the training the same for now. Do a deload week and change the diet like I said. Then go back to it and see if you can get progress going again. If not then maybe you would consider a new training routine.

I train like this:
Monday: legs, abs
Wednesday: chest, shoulders, tri's
Friday: back, bi's, abs
 
If I feel like I am not getting stronger although making weight on my way back up, is it o.k. to prolong it to 6-8 weeks to get back and just go with how i feel as far as making increases anywhere from 1.5lbs up to 5lbs? very helpful example!

If I understand what you're saying here correctly, you want to make smaller increases on the way back to your current PRs? You could do this I suppose, but personally I wouldn't take more than 5 or 6 week's max to hit your old PRs.

It's usually tough for people to get past week 8-10 on this program before they need a deload, because you are pushing some high intensities, especially at the end. While taking tiny jumps up to your old PRs, you'd still be working at weights which are very close to your limit, and therefore adding too many weeks of that may impact the length of time you can continue to hit new PRs when you get to that point.

When I bench, I do it in the squat rack so I feel comfortable going to failure as all I have to do is drop my chest and it hits the pins. To be honest, i hate asking for spots cause then they do the work for me, grab the bar, or sweat drips in my face. Amazing how so many people don't know how to spot in my gym. Wish there was a golds:( (sorry for rant), haha.

Ya, people are terrible spotters, lol. If I end up having to ask a random person, I always give them lengthy instructions on what not to do...

I like your idea that after totally failing on one exercise how I could integrate a hybrid of the advanced & intermediate. You think that's a good way to transition into the program? Just do advanced for the lifts that hit plateaus after deloading doesn't work anymore and continue intermediate on the other exercises?

Ya, that's one way that you could go about it. Alternatively, you can change up to a different program, as EM suggested. Ultimately, it's all about what program works the best and what program you can enjoy/tolerate doing. If you're getting terribly bored or not getting results, the motivation won't be there.

Another great point! You're on fire today! haha. I am proud of my gains for the minute amount of testosterone I'm on. Never lifted 275 easily before hand (except 5 years ago when I was on 1000mgs of test a week), however, i do miss doing shrugs, side delt raises, more bicep work, rear delts, but then again, 5X5 taught me it's meaningless.
It's ok to add some of those things in as assistance exercises. Just be smart about where you put them, and don't go overkill. Try to keep the overall assistance reps to 30-60 per day. If you're going to increase the volume on assistance exercises, do it slowly, so you give yourself time to adapt.


Interesting response. Because I take my shot every monday. And when I got this blood test, I took it on Friday. So I think i'll take your advice and shoot twice a week and split the dose. Then 1 month later, take a blood test again and then gauge from there...

That explains the results then. Your blood levels will peak roughly 24-48 hours after the shot and then tail off. So if you took the test on Friday, the blood levels would be much lower by then, and so on. By Sunday night, your blood levels are quite low (you may be feeling different even by then).

So let's say after splitting the dose and taking another blood test i'm still in mid range. Although 250mg is considered high, is the real result the total test levels and free test? Meaning, that if I upped it another 100mgs lets say, and my total test was under 1000 and free test was also within proper range, would that be something I could maintain long term and still be healthy? Obviously if I was over the levels, I would drop it too.

As I said above, the gear is likely fine, so I wouldn't worry too much about this. But yes, ultimately the actual levels in your blood is what matters. At this point, I'd just wait a month as you suggested and then take another test and go from there.
 
Thanks Cato. I feel great now:) Out of curiosity, what routine do you follow? Would like to get away from the 5x5 once i don't make gains anymore.
 
Right now I'm doing something like a modified 5x5 with a fourth day, so basically 4 day/week full body. I autoregulate, so the reps and sets I actually do may deviate from this a bit, though not by much.

M: 5x3 squat, bench, row
W: 2x5@80% of M's squats, 3x3 push press, deadlift work up to a top triple or double or single, 5x5 weighted pullups
F: Work up to a top triple or double or single on squat, bench, row
Sat: 3x3 Front squats, 5x5 weighted chinups, wildcard push exercise (been trying different things in this spot such as incline, close grip), abs

Been thinking of switching to sumo DLs and adding stiff legged DLs in somewhere as an assistance exercise.

That's basically what I do, but things have evolved quite a bit over time. Added a day about two months ago to increase work capacity, burn a few more calories, and get some front squats in there. Happen to be doing 5x3 right now on Mondays because I started missing some reps in my last two sets when doing 5x5. So instead of deloading, continued loading with lower reps.
 
Anything I listed as 5x3 or 3x3 etc I do the same weight on all sets (+ warmups). In contrast, the Friday workout I only do one top set.
 
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