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If I had it to do over again, my first cycle would've been a gram of test
pyrros dimas
New member
You people are ignorant and I am going to take it a step further than what Nelson was basically implying.
Sides are easily controlled? What sides and more importantly which ones? Are you stuopud enough to think that you can control most aspects of your physiology with repsect to sides? The sides you are mainly referring to are the ones you can ONLY see like Acne VULGARIS, bloating, Bitch tits, etc. correct???
Without blood work how the fuck do you genious' know what sides are occuring internally with respect to your Kidneys, Liver, Prostate, etc.? Now how about Triglycerides, HDL, LDL, Blood Pressure, etc.? And how about another 10 sides concerns that I didn't even list?
Sides! "I know what sides I have. I can see whether or not I have any sides! It's all in what I can see on the outside! Also, I feel great so I must be healthy."
What is sad is that some of you truly believe that shit and whether you are ignorant or rationalizing it is a whole other subject.
What a fucking JOKE! Get blood work done by an M.D. that knows what the fuck he/she is doing. Get blood work done pre, trans and post cycle. That means before, during and after.
Listen to Dial Tone, Latimer and Quadsweep on subjects of dosage levels. These guys have been around and are smart. This 1 gram of Test shit for a first cycle is irresponsible BS!
This is the same BS mentality that says a 24 week cycle is better than a 12 week cycle. A 24 week cycle may be better for overall gains, but after 12 weeks or so, the gains drop exponentially.
Sides are easily controlled? What sides and more importantly which ones? Are you stuopud enough to think that you can control most aspects of your physiology with repsect to sides? The sides you are mainly referring to are the ones you can ONLY see like Acne VULGARIS, bloating, Bitch tits, etc. correct???
Without blood work how the fuck do you genious' know what sides are occuring internally with respect to your Kidneys, Liver, Prostate, etc.? Now how about Triglycerides, HDL, LDL, Blood Pressure, etc.? And how about another 10 sides concerns that I didn't even list?
Sides! "I know what sides I have. I can see whether or not I have any sides! It's all in what I can see on the outside! Also, I feel great so I must be healthy."
What is sad is that some of you truly believe that shit and whether you are ignorant or rationalizing it is a whole other subject.
What a fucking JOKE! Get blood work done by an M.D. that knows what the fuck he/she is doing. Get blood work done pre, trans and post cycle. That means before, during and after.
Listen to Dial Tone, Latimer and Quadsweep on subjects of dosage levels. These guys have been around and are smart. This 1 gram of Test shit for a first cycle is irresponsible BS!
This is the same BS mentality that says a 24 week cycle is better than a 12 week cycle. A 24 week cycle may be better for overall gains, but after 12 weeks or so, the gains drop exponentially.
gimp
New member
I don't think that human grade test is that harmful to the body...even at high doses. I was reading the insert on some Nile sustanon I'm doing and it specifically states that it is not hepatoxic. Sure, they only recommend 250mg/month, but, if it were that dangerous to do a gram of test...everybody who juices in my gym would be dead right now. After an 8 weeker of omna..my blood test showed only a minimal elevation (.4) above normal LFT's and my hdl/ldl's were right on track.
Stillgoing
New member
Bro, good topic for discussion, but, I can't agree with you on this one:
Why would I, for my first cycle, want to take a gram of test when in reality I gained 15 solid pounds on 10mg dbol a day and 200mg of deca a MONTH? And now, 15 years later and 20 or 30 cycles later, at 258pds and 8-9%bf, I still can't tolerate more than 1 gram total in a cycle. I don't need any more than that to make gains and, I above that I get sides. In fact, I backed my current dosage down from 1,200mg down to 1 gram. Gains are still coming.
THE CORRECT DOSAGE IS ALWAYS THE MINIMUM AMOUNT NECESSARY TO MAKE GOOD QUALITY, SUSTAINABLE GAINS. The only possible counter argument to this would be "yeah but you can make them much faster if you dramatically increase dosage". Maybe thats valid if your the one in a hundred thousand that has the ability to make it to the top of the pro ranks and actually earn a living AND A RETIREMENT NEST EGG to make it even remotely an attractive risk reward proposition. To all the rest of us: THIS IS A LONG-TERM GAME, AND SLOW AND STEADY WINS THE RACE.
Put it to you this way: Lets say we are both 25 years old, working out for 5 years and never juiced. We then agree to a competition with each other. We will compete in a one on one bodybuilding competition against each other in 15 years, when were both 40 years old. The stakes are high and this is serious business. You got 15 years and you'll be no spring chicken come show date. Where do you start your cycling program, 1 gram or something much less? I don't know where I'm going with this, but, I guess the conclusion would be: my bet is on the guy who takes it slow and steady, he'll be bigger and healthier come show time.....
Good discussion......
Why would I, for my first cycle, want to take a gram of test when in reality I gained 15 solid pounds on 10mg dbol a day and 200mg of deca a MONTH? And now, 15 years later and 20 or 30 cycles later, at 258pds and 8-9%bf, I still can't tolerate more than 1 gram total in a cycle. I don't need any more than that to make gains and, I above that I get sides. In fact, I backed my current dosage down from 1,200mg down to 1 gram. Gains are still coming.
THE CORRECT DOSAGE IS ALWAYS THE MINIMUM AMOUNT NECESSARY TO MAKE GOOD QUALITY, SUSTAINABLE GAINS. The only possible counter argument to this would be "yeah but you can make them much faster if you dramatically increase dosage". Maybe thats valid if your the one in a hundred thousand that has the ability to make it to the top of the pro ranks and actually earn a living AND A RETIREMENT NEST EGG to make it even remotely an attractive risk reward proposition. To all the rest of us: THIS IS A LONG-TERM GAME, AND SLOW AND STEADY WINS THE RACE.
Put it to you this way: Lets say we are both 25 years old, working out for 5 years and never juiced. We then agree to a competition with each other. We will compete in a one on one bodybuilding competition against each other in 15 years, when were both 40 years old. The stakes are high and this is serious business. You got 15 years and you'll be no spring chicken come show date. Where do you start your cycling program, 1 gram or something much less? I don't know where I'm going with this, but, I guess the conclusion would be: my bet is on the guy who takes it slow and steady, he'll be bigger and healthier come show time.....
Good discussion......
Only a few people here are left from 1999-2000 when almost ALL the people here were using 1-3gr of total AS in a cycle and some even more.
It doesn't make sense to use less than a gram in ANY cycle simply because, as was stated, for an 8-10 week period the sides are very manageable and the gains are so much better than 500mg. If they weren't there would be media reports of all the injured from AS use on the news every night with politicians making speeches about how we need to abolish all AS. But they aren't and thousands of men are using a gram first time out.
There used to be hundreds of guys on this board doing this and still are. Except for Zeacky, who now has to post under the name E23 because he lost his name, (where have I heard that before?), I don't remember if anyone else is here posting, from the days when Zeacky, BIZ, and E2, and others I am forgetting, would post cycles of 3 grams all the time. Hell people used to pay George Spellwin for cycle consultations and they would be told how to use 2 grams in the first cycle.
At some point the board started changing. I think mostly because of a changing of the guard in moderators.
The people that come to Elite are, for the most part, a little nervous about the whole AS thing. They are nervous about posting in the beginning. After all, they don't want to appear unintelligent. And they are still looking over the side of the boat wondering if it's ok to jump in the water. OMG I can't believe I am thinking about sticking a needle in myself!! Maybe I'll just do an oral only cycle.
Do you know how I know this? Because this is how EVERYONE feels in the beginning.
Then the "voices of reason" as they call themselves show up. 2Thick was already here, Quadsweep, and others I don't remember right now, Nelson Montana showed up much later. He's actually still a newbie here, though not to the game by any means.
Well hells bells it sure sounds a lot better to a newbie if he has a "voice of reason" to tell him it's ok, don't worry, you just do a little bit of AS, not what the other vets tell you, they don't know what they're talking about, they are reckless, just do a little and you'll be fine.
I can't even count how many times I have posted this on one of these threads.
The risks of an infection are the same whether you shoot 500 or 1000.
The risks of purchasing and receiving illegal drugs is the same with 500 or 1000.
The side effects, for 99% of men, are the same with 500 as 1000.
The gains however are much different. What the thread starter, slobberknocker, said is what most people say after a couple cycles. "I wish I would have done a gram my first time". It is a very individual choice and I wish all those well who go either direction, but I once again thought I should tell the other side.
It doesn't make sense to use less than a gram in ANY cycle simply because, as was stated, for an 8-10 week period the sides are very manageable and the gains are so much better than 500mg. If they weren't there would be media reports of all the injured from AS use on the news every night with politicians making speeches about how we need to abolish all AS. But they aren't and thousands of men are using a gram first time out.
There used to be hundreds of guys on this board doing this and still are. Except for Zeacky, who now has to post under the name E23 because he lost his name, (where have I heard that before?), I don't remember if anyone else is here posting, from the days when Zeacky, BIZ, and E2, and others I am forgetting, would post cycles of 3 grams all the time. Hell people used to pay George Spellwin for cycle consultations and they would be told how to use 2 grams in the first cycle.
At some point the board started changing. I think mostly because of a changing of the guard in moderators.
The people that come to Elite are, for the most part, a little nervous about the whole AS thing. They are nervous about posting in the beginning. After all, they don't want to appear unintelligent. And they are still looking over the side of the boat wondering if it's ok to jump in the water. OMG I can't believe I am thinking about sticking a needle in myself!! Maybe I'll just do an oral only cycle.
Do you know how I know this? Because this is how EVERYONE feels in the beginning.
Then the "voices of reason" as they call themselves show up. 2Thick was already here, Quadsweep, and others I don't remember right now, Nelson Montana showed up much later. He's actually still a newbie here, though not to the game by any means.
Well hells bells it sure sounds a lot better to a newbie if he has a "voice of reason" to tell him it's ok, don't worry, you just do a little bit of AS, not what the other vets tell you, they don't know what they're talking about, they are reckless, just do a little and you'll be fine.
I can't even count how many times I have posted this on one of these threads.
The risks of an infection are the same whether you shoot 500 or 1000.
The risks of purchasing and receiving illegal drugs is the same with 500 or 1000.
The side effects, for 99% of men, are the same with 500 as 1000.
The gains however are much different. What the thread starter, slobberknocker, said is what most people say after a couple cycles. "I wish I would have done a gram my first time". It is a very individual choice and I wish all those well who go either direction, but I once again thought I should tell the other side.
Again, sides don't neccessarily have to come on right away. Some are slow in proceding, so years down the line when you run into health problems you wouldn't neccessarily be able to trace it back to steroid use. I still say be patient and play it safe. I don't see any logic in arguing against that reasoning.
gettnlarge
New member
not all people can grow off low doses, if i could grow off 200mg a month i would be happier and have a little more money. juice is like working out some people need low volume and some people need high volume. you don't know until you experment.
Audio8 said:
Although, I don't really agree with ulter, I don't think this is a good argument.
There are usually signs, it doesn't just pop one day out of nowhere. If you checked your blood values, you would know how you were doing ... there would be no surprises.
---
If the blood work comes in great and the visible side effects are tolerable than you are stupid to do low dosages. JMHO. I just don't think there will be any good blood word with 2g of gear.
-sk
I remember those cycles you are talking about Ulter. Conan69's cycles come to mind.
I beleive you are right for the most part, but I beleive that a first cycle shouldn't be more than 25mg of dbol for 4 weeks, and 500mg of Test.
After your first cycle, 1g + of gear is the minimum necessary for gains but I think for LBM preservation(cutting), 1g+ is not necessary.
1gram of test seems excessive but it's the same amount of AS as 600mg of test/400mg of EQ
I beleive you are right for the most part, but I beleive that a first cycle shouldn't be more than 25mg of dbol for 4 weeks, and 500mg of Test.
After your first cycle, 1g + of gear is the minimum necessary for gains but I think for LBM preservation(cutting), 1g+ is not necessary.
1gram of test seems excessive but it's the same amount of AS as 600mg of test/400mg of EQ
"Again, sides don't neccessarily have to come on right away. Some are slow in proceding, so years down the line when you run into health problems you wouldn't neccessarily be able to trace it back to steroid use. I still say be patient and play it safe. I don't see any logic in arguing against that reasoning."
Like I said, thousands are using 1gr first time out without incident every week. You can say, "well it's just safer to use less" Well, it's even safer than that to use none.
Did you drive in a car last weekend? Then you survived the Labor Day Weekend. That's great because you did better than the 488 people who died. Do you know how many people died from 1 gram of AS? None reported.
Do you drive 55mph on the highway? Your chances of surviving, not acne here, death, are better at 55mph. So why aren't you driving slower?
Like I said, thousands are using 1gr first time out without incident every week. You can say, "well it's just safer to use less" Well, it's even safer than that to use none.
Did you drive in a car last weekend? Then you survived the Labor Day Weekend. That's great because you did better than the 488 people who died. Do you know how many people died from 1 gram of AS? None reported.
Do you drive 55mph on the highway? Your chances of surviving, not acne here, death, are better at 55mph. So why aren't you driving slower?
