I MUST be doing something wrong here - please help?

[SteelWeaver]

I was browsing through my old log books last night, and was shocked, horrified, sickened, and saddened to discover that a great many of my lifts have gone absolutely nowhere

Deadlifts are only up by about 10 kgs in a YEAR!!! Skullcrushers only up a few reps, bb curls also, I STILL can't do pull-ups, dips are a bit better, but not much, bench has gone up a fair bit, but nothing to get excited about, squats are up nicely, but that has happened since I started OL ...

What am I doing wrong? I just can't figure it out. Can the contest dieting I did last year REALLY have stagnated my lifts so much??? And why haven't they increased much since I stopped dieting so hard?

With all the OL I've been doing lately, I haven't been doing much upper body, which seemed good at first - my lifts started moving quite well, but yesterday I had time to do a full, normal bb chest and tri workout and was disappointed to find my lifts are now dropping

I've spent years and years reading and trying to implement everything I can get my hands on about training and nutrition, have tried a number of different approaches, working to failure, way past failure, not to failure, higher volume, lower volume, etc etc, and I'm still laughably weak for my size, and my lifts continue to increase at the pace of a snail on barbiturates

Disgruntled!

 

[Scarlett33]

bump for Spatts or one of the other knowledgable ladies!

 

[bigguns15]

With my training, I'm always trying to avoid plateaus. My training cycles are around 10 weeks long with varying volume and intensity. I start with high volume, low intensity and gradually progress to low volume, high intensity. Then after the cycle and competition, I take a week off and usually start over. I'm always learning something new during each cycle and applying it to my next. If you're interested, I have some of my training cycles listed on my website here: http://www.rebeccaphelps.com/training.html

Also, the progression of weight on my accessory lifts is small in comparison to the core lifts. But then again, I don't train specifically to increase my accessories (they do tend to increase along the way though). A 5 lb increase on barbell curls might be comparable to a 15 pound increase on squat (percentage of the total pounds).

From experience, I also know that it is very hard to increase all your lifts at once. During my training cycles, I notice that usually one lift will be progressing much faster than the others. Over time though, they all increase.

 

[DBCooper]

Spatts is still on her roadtrip I think and should be back soon, imo your contest diet didn't help and personally OL is almost a waste for strength. Stick to a healthy diet and change your lifting to focus on strength. Spatts or one of the other women can help in more detail I'm sure.

 

[JJFigure]

I think you're losing sight of your goals; you started training OL because you were interested in competing in OL. When you start training sport specifically, you can't expect to gain strength in the areas your training isn't focusing on.

Think about what you've accomplished with your cleans and presses - I bet that's a hell of a lot more weight than you've ever pressed before, and that's a huge accomplishment! You were also frustrated with your squat progress, which OL training has turned around for you.

You're doing a comp in August; I advise putting everything else out of your mind and focusing in on what you need to do for this comp. Who knows you may decide OL isn't for you and go back to more of a BB focus. But I think you should carry this through, do the comp, and re-assess at that time.

Now, with that said, the two lifts you could practice without jeopordizing your OL training are dips and pullups. For me, it took practice - lots of practice - before I could do a pullup. Pullups became my warmup - every time I was in the gym, I'd do 1-2 sets of pullups. It's probably not a strength issue, it's a practice issue. Even if all you do initially are negatives, you should just practice that movement. And pulldowns won't do it; you literally have to do pullups to get stronger at them.

So, after checking with your OL coach, you may want to warmup with some dips and pullups - not a lot of sets, just 1-2 for a warmup. I think you'll find you'll be doing unassisted pullups within a month.

 

[slinky]

We've been focusing more and more on the accessory lifts to enhance our core lifts.

Especially when it comes to increasing deadlift poundages. Now we're doing the same to increase our bench. This philosophy is via Westside. And it works.

Oh, and what really improved my pullups was training via 5x5. Now, I can perform bodyweight pullups, 3x10. No problem. I'm going to be adding weight this week.

What JJ and bigguns said is right on the money. You've mentally changed your focus, just stick with it. Things will happen. Besides, your body has probably been busy neurally adapting to Oly-lifts. Just be patient.

I've begun a new training regimen that is built around building explosiveness. Therefore my lifting poundages have dropped - I'm not worried about it either. Since I know I will be a better strongwoman and power lifter because of it. Also, when I began really working on cleans, the 10kg bumpers were what I was using pretty regularly. NOW, 20kg is my "light" weight. It just takes some patience and focus (remember what you're trying to accomplish).

 

[SteelWeaver]

Thanks guys. Mmm - I hadn't actually thought of this as a plateau, but I suppose that's exactly what it is. I didn't think of it that way because with the 2 comps last year, my lifts increased slowly for the first part of the diet, then dived in the last month or so, then came up back to where they were at the beginning, plus a tiny bit more, just in time for me to start dieting again, then the dive... etc etc. So they haven't just stayed exactly the same for 12 months - they've gone up and down.

It's stupid, because I've read and tried a lot of stuff out there. I've been on these boards 2 years, long enough to see women here improve in remarkable leaps and bounds, long enough to even hand out advice myself. I've done the heavy week, light week approach, I tried Westside and got frustrated. I tried DFHT, and got tired, and sore rotator cuffs. I've worked with a professional trainer (IFBB) and learnt how to push my limits very far ... sigh. I dunno I don't understand.

Today I was so pissed off about this I went in the gym and did my best ever deadlifts for 2 sets, (so apparently frustration and anger help, ha ha ha) first 10 reps, then 5 reps 10-lbs heavier, then couldn't get the same weight off the floor for one. Technically this makes sense - having been training a while now, lower volume SHOULD be as effective as higher volume used to be, taken the increased skill at muscle recruitment, but I was surprised at how rapidly I fatigued ...

I can't figure out if I'm overtraining or undertraining. I threw out most "little" moves long ago - almost never used cables, seldom use dumbbells. Either I'm just really dumb at applying simple principles, or I'm not cut out for strength training. You'd think you'd know how to progress if you know so much theory ...

JJ - you make good points. I suppose I have sort of been all over the place this year so far. I tried Westside and DFHT this year before starting OL, but didn't finish them. Otherwise I haven't followed any "programme" as such for a long time. When I was dieting I was just trying to lift as heavily and intensely as possible. I guess I might just have eyeballed my problem right there - 3 completely different training styles, all incomplete as such, in 6 months. Yes?

I've been trying and trying to do pullups for more than a year, and I still can't do more than one. I can do about 2 chin-ups. It doesn't help that my bodyweight has changed a lot over the last year or so, either. I tried Poliquin's programme, when he starts with just static holds and long negatives. Didn't help. Have been doing controlled negatives for months, no difference. Everyone says, suuure, you can do pullups within 3 months. Well, 5 times that and I'm still hanging low ...

I'm sorry - I'm feeling very sorry for myself right now. I AM very happy with the OL training - it's tough, but I love the stimulation. I'm NOT very sure of my goals. I was thinking that OL would help me become more explosive in my lifts, and bigger and stronger too, then I just got hooked on how mentally stimulating it is.

How many negs were you doing JJ? When you say 1 or 2 sets pullups as warm-ups, like what exactly? I usually do 2 sets of 10 negs as part of my back workout ... Were you doing 30-sec negs like Poliquin suggests?

I've been doing 2-3 sets of 8-10 glute ham negs for ages too - still can't do one single full glute ham raise.

DBCooper - what do you mean by OL being a waste for strength? I've seen guys snatch like 110 kilos, and they're still juniors. That seems quite strong to me ...?

 

[DBCooper]

Steelweaver-I meant for strength training overall there are better ways to get stronger. I agree with what everyone said about your focus also, I am biased towards powerlifting so take what I say with a grain of salt lol. OL is good for speed and agility but not for raw strength.

 

[JJFigure]

"How many negs were you doing JJ? When you say 1 or 2 sets pullups as warm-ups, like what exactly? I usually do 2 sets of 10 negs as part of my back workout ... Were you doing 30-sec negs like Poliquin suggests?"

I actually focused on chinups initially before I moved to a wider grip pullup. I made the most progress when I used a spotter - I really didn't do much negative work. Once I could do 5-6 asssisted, I switched to working without a spotter and would just try to do as many chins as possible (1 set only). Eventually, I was able to do sets of 10-12; then I moved on to a pullup - started with assisted then moved to struggling on my own.

Now, I only do pullups, but I use a wide, neutral grip, not the overhand grip. Overhand grip tends to bug my rotator cuff a little, but wide, neutral feels great.

 

[The Shadow]

either overtraining or under eating

 

[spatts]

Looks like you already got this one answered.

 

[SteelWeaver]

Thanks DBC - don't worry, I will get to PL someday - but like everyone's saying, I should try and focus more. I jsut want to do everything, I guess, but maybe one at a time is better. I like the OL because there's so much involved - there's a great deal of skill and balance and all sorts that is diferent from just trying to get stronger or bigger.

Slinky - good points - could you do ANY pullups when you started 5x5 on them? 5x5 doesn't work on failure in every set, right? But I'll be doing negatives, which is technically past failure.

Corn - I'm not sure it's that simple. I've decreased both volume and intensity a lot this year, and even when eating cleanly and hypercalorically, still got nowhere. Are you saying that the training style one implements has zero influence on progress at all?

btw - nice to see you around here again - it's been a while - how was the show and did we ever get to see your legs?

I think I'm going back to first principles for upper body, something like HST, and will stick with something specific for long enough to see some real progress. Will continue with coach as per usual with OL.

thanks for the forum everyone - I think the simple act of voicing this has helped me get some insight into where I'm going wrong .. will feedback at some point.

 

[The Shadow]

Are you saying that the training style one implements has zero influence on progress at all?

Im saying that everything works....but nothing works for long.

Overtraining to me also consists of overtraining the movements as well as overall systemic fatigue

 

[wilson6]

"I'm saying that everything works....but nothing works for long"

That is one of the best quotes I've heard in a while.

Corn is absolutely right about the overtraining concept. It can be either peripheral and/or central.

I have had much success with undulated periodization with my clients, myself and competitors that I've trained. It's pretty simple, keep the light workouts similar, and change the heavy ones every 2 weeks. Doesn't have to be major changes (different rep/set schemes) slight variation in hand grip, dumbbells instead of the bar, etc., etc. You just keep on growing.

Of course knowing when to take a week off (usually about 4 times a year) and keeping the calories coming in is also helpful. Women in particular are so worried about getting fatter, they never put on muscle either and always stay the same. Now, I'm not into the concept of bulking (getting fat to add some muscle), but there is a point where the calories are just not enough to add muscle either.

W6

 

[SteelWeaver]

In my case it would appear that nothing works, and nothing works for long (like a year in this case) Bah!

I realise that for a large part of last year, I was probably overtraining, and dieting very hard. It's that I haven't improved much, except for squats since I started OL, THIS year that bugs me. And surely one would recognise overtraining - I haven't had any (well, except for not progressing much) of the symptoms: my appetite is as ravenous as ever, I am as motivated if not more motivated to train, I sleep well, I almost never get sick ... I take a week more off every few months.

What bugs me is it SEEMS like I've been doing everything by the book, but nothing happens.

Are you guys saying that one should, say, stop deadlifting or squatting for a while? That THESE sorts or movements can be overtrained? I'm not sure I understand the difference between peripheral and central overtraining.

W6 - do you mean that at every heavy workout the moves change? So you DON'T squat at every heavy workout? You do, say, 3 sets of 5 front squats one week, then 2 weeks later 2 sets of 10 back squats? This sort of idea? There's no pattern to the rep/set changes? Do you go on what feels like a good idea that day? What about pyramiding? Do you stick those in sometimes?

I dunno - it's silly - I've read and tried so much, but still know nothing.

btw W6 - on calories - does one NEED to eat excess to gain? Or can one actually gain (albeit slower) on maintenance? I have dieted briefly twice this year, because I wasn't careful enough about intake after my last comp, and got fatter than can fit into my clothes comfortably. I'm both sick of dieting and sick of not fitting nicely into my clothes.

Oh, one more question - I have bursitis in my hip which is taking its sweet time going away. How much influence would this have on lifts, do you think? It hurts all the time, but I don't notice it when I squat.

 

[valerie]

Steele--I think that w6 is refering to the stress that training puts on the central nervous system. We do not "feel" this.

I would say yes to not training the squat or dead all the time. By varying the grip, set and rep scheme, this helps us make progress.

As spatts has posted, the crew doesnt just do free squats, they do box squats, deads off a platform, and never one rep maxs. Its like you work all around the lift, but not just the lift itself.

As far as I know yes you would need to be in excess of maintenace calories to put on muscle. The body has to have the material to build it plus enough cals to run the show. I have read the # is 500 cal per day above. But of course I could be totally off base here. Carb cycling would be the way to go for sure. The high carb days when you lift and low carb on the days you don't.


On the hip, your training may have an effect on its healing. Hopefully w6 will post up with correct info. as opposed to my ramblings.

In any case, no sense in getting in getting down on yourself. None of this has been wasted time or effort. Imagine not starting to lift until your 40!!!!!!! Like me.

 

[wilson6]

"With all the OL I've been doing lately, I haven't been doing much upper body, which seemed good at first - my lifts started moving quite well, but yesterday I had time to do a full, normal bb chest and tri workout and was disappointed to find my lifts are now dropping"

Steel, you just answered your own question. Training responses are specific to the bodypart and style (PL, OL or BB) of training.

You need to eat enough calories to grow. Sounds like it has either been too much or too little.

You squat at every workout, but the rep/set scheme varies.

One week several sets of 5. Next might be speed sets (10 sets of 2 with 20s breaks), next could be with bands, etc.

W6

 

[SteelWeaver]

Thanks valerie and W6. All of this really helps. I've ben rearraging my priorities, and am raring to go again. Went to doc for a another cortisone shot - so the busitis will hopefully clear up fully soon. He referred me to a sports nutritionist to find out exactly what I need calorie-wise, etc.

Will going onto maintenance cals, with some extra carb bumps here and there, maybe some dips too, on off days. Will do some minimal regular and mod intensity cardio - with sprints here and there - I've finally had to acknowledge that my body is the cardio type, meaning there's not a snowball's chance in hell I could ever have offseason abs like Brickgirl even WITH cardio, never mind without. And my cv system needs some work anyway.

For training, OL will stay as is with coach, 2-3 times a week. This will be plenty leg training. On the other one or two days will do full upper body workout (or split over 2 if 2 days) utilising one compound move and maybe one accessory per part - maybe a bit more for back, with 3 sets or so for compounds, 1 or 2 for accessory), heavy one week, light the next, and starting with high reps (~12 -15) next week, dropping them over the weeks to about 3 or so - then a week off ... etc. I haven't really worked at anything over 8-10 reps for a long time. Keep intensity high, and workouts short. I've been working too often, too long and too hard, and not eating enough (thanks corn I didn't realise the extra toll the OL was taking.

Any comments? Look reasonable? One question ... is it a fair idea to go with decreasing reps in a biweekly fashion like that, or does randomly doing sets of 5 one week, speed sets another, etc make much difference?

 

[valerie]

Good for you steele. We all love training so much that we forget what a toll it takes on the body. Sometimes it takes an injury or a plateau to realize that we ain't no superwomen. I know I absolutely refuse to acknowledge my age! Then on occaison I get hit by the reality.

I like the carb cycling. Really helps with strength and prevents cravings. For me it helps keep the diet doable. I've come to be comfortable where I am fatwise. I think Brickgirl would be the first to say that she isn't lean by nature. She has awesome abs and has worked hard to develope them, and who knows what role genetics plays in that. She has often posted that if she didn't workout things would very different.

I don't know how to best set up the rep scheme, but you could do the decreasing reps and also mix in the 5x5 and also high reps on others. But it might be good, after your comp to take some time off before going low rep and higher wts.