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I don't understand? Can't press more?

R

RGS83

New member
A couple of months ago, a few ppl on the board,tossed some ideas out on how i might shape up a new routine...
HOWEVER, even though I keep working at it, when I DB bench press (no spotter for bar) I find that the weight that I'm able to press is not really going up... regardless of how much i keep pushing or how much i'm eating. I'm not big enough to have hit a plateau! haha.
I'm 21, 5'11, 155-160lbs.

My chest workout looked like this on Sun Aug 15:

DB press 9x50lbs, 5.5x55, 5.5x55, 4x55, 4x55.
Incline DB press 8x45, 6x45, 6.5x45, 6x45.
Flies 12x20, 12x 25, 12x25, 8x30
Pullover 15x20, 12x25, 12x25
*.5 is when i tried for one more rep, pushed it up a bit, or 1/2, and failed.

random workout of July 10th:
DB press 10x45lbs, 8x50, 6x55, 5x55, 4.5x55.
Incline DB press 9x40, 6.5x45, 6,5x45, 6.5x45, 5.5x45.
Flies 12x20, 12x20, 12x20, 10x20

And this has been the case for some time now.

I don't understand?? It's tuesday today and my chest is a bit sore from Sunday... But why aren't my reps going up.??
 
RGS83 said:
A couple of months ago, a few ppl on the board,tossed some ideas out on how i might shape up a new routine...
HOWEVER, even though I keep working at it, when I DB bench press (no spotter for bar) I find that the weight that I'm able to press is not really going up... regardless of how much i keep pushing or how much i'm eating. I'm not big enough to have hit a plateau! haha.
I'm 21, 5'11, 155-160lbs.

My chest workout looked like this on Sun Aug 15:

DB press 9x50lbs, 5.5x55, 5.5x55, 4x55, 4x55.
Incline DB press 8x45, 6x45, 6.5x45, 6x45.
Flies 12x20, 12x 25, 12x25, 8x30
Pullover 15x20, 12x25, 12x25
*.5 is when i tried for one more rep, pushed it up a bit, or 1/2, and failed.

random workout of July 10th:
DB press 10x45lbs, 8x50, 6x55, 5x55, 4.5x55.
Incline DB press 9x40, 6.5x45, 6,5x45, 6.5x45, 5.5x45.
Flies 12x20, 12x20, 12x20, 10x20

And this has been the case for some time now.

I don't understand?? It's tuesday today and my chest is a bit sore from Sunday... But why aren't my reps going up.??
Click to expand...


it takes alot of time bro....doesnt come easy =(
 
And I'm dedicated to it...
I've been going at this for maybe two years now... Differnt routines and programs of course.. and I've made gains, but no where near what i should be.


But in just that snippet - does it not seem like a long time to go without gains?
That was a random chest workout... There wee quite a few before that, on this program.... and no real change??
 
RGS83 said:
A couple of months ago, a few ppl on the board,tossed some ideas out on how i might shape up a new routine...
HOWEVER, even though I keep working at it, when I DB bench press (no spotter for bar) I find that the weight that I'm able to press is not really going up... regardless of how much i keep pushing or how much i'm eating. I'm not big enough to have hit a plateau! haha.
I'm 21, 5'11, 155-160lbs.

My chest workout looked like this on Sun Aug 15:

DB press 9x50lbs, 5.5x55, 5.5x55, 4x55, 4x55.
Incline DB press 8x45, 6x45, 6.5x45, 6x45.
Flies 12x20, 12x 25, 12x25, 8x30
Pullover 15x20, 12x25, 12x25
*.5 is when i tried for one more rep, pushed it up a bit, or 1/2, and failed.

random workout of July 10th:
DB press 10x45lbs, 8x50, 6x55, 5x55, 4.5x55.
Incline DB press 9x40, 6.5x45, 6,5x45, 6.5x45, 5.5x45.
Flies 12x20, 12x20, 12x20, 10x20

And this has been the case for some time now.

I don't understand?? It's tuesday today and my chest is a bit sore from Sunday... But why aren't my reps going up.??
Click to expand...


After looking at the number , you are in a plateau aren't you? I think gain are 60% what you do out of the gym and 40% what you do in the gym.
1. If you are sore for extended periods of time , maybe glutamine , or protein in general should be upped. Try some new supps
2. try using barbells for a while. Basically take your workout and flip it upside down.
3. don't do the same thing over and over again with diet or workout
 
RGS83 said:
I don't understand?? It's tuesday today and my chest is a bit sore from Sunday... But why aren't my reps going up.??
Click to expand...

I do.

You're doing way more than your body can handle. Just as some guys can tan all day at the Equator and not get burned, there are a bunch who get beet-red standing outside during a Wisconsin winter!

Similarly, some people can handle high volume, some cannot. Some can handle training to failure all the time, some cannot.

You're both training to failure AND doing pretty high volume! A VERY rare few can handle training to failure AND high volume on a regular basis. Off the top of my head, only three individuals come to mind: Tom Platz, our own Walking Beast, and Lee Priest :)

So, stop doing all that fucking work! Do NO MORE THAN two sets of each exercise to failure. Drop the pullovers; they're not going to get you big pecs, and they're not going to expand your ribcage that much (if at all).

Drop the fly movement, too...too little weight, not enough stimulation.


This is what I want you to do for your chest workout, every four days:

1--Flat DB press. Warm-ups: 20's x 12-15 reps, 40's for 3-4

Work sets: one with 55's, to failure, and another with 45's to failure. Once you can get more than 8 reps with the 55's, bump it up to 60's. When you can do more than 12 reps with the 45's, go for the 50's.

2--Incline DB press. No warm-up.
Work sets: 1 w/ 50's and 1 w/ 40's. Same drill as above: one set will be low-rep, the other a bit higher. Both are to failure.

3--Parallel dip. No warm-up.
Work set: 1 w/ bodyweight to start. When you can do more than 10 reps with your bodyweight, get a dip belt and add some weight!


At your stage of development you should be able to handle this chest routine twice a week and gain like gangbusters. Try a Mon-Thurs. schedule for your presses and dips. If you're not gaining at least a rep on every work set, try cleaning up your form. Reduce the weights and slow your negatives down to a legit 2-3 seconds. If THAT doesn't work, drop one of the press worksets.

And if THAT doesn't work, I'll personally kiss your ass.
 
HHA!
see this is my biggest fear/pet peeve.

Doing anything... working on my car, workingout, ect. And not getting the benifit.

You seem to know you shit...
What I'd ideall like is to have what you just did for my chest, done for the rest of my routine (arms, shoulders, ect.)

What do you recommend? I fear some trainers as they're alot of $$, and you don't know what your getting... could be someone who did the tests, and reads the latest magazines... Thats not what I need. I need tried and true, for ME;
Like you said only a few ppl can do what I'm trying todo.



What do you guys suggest? Is there someone I should get in touch with? Is there a routine I can find that would fit my needs??

I apperciate this!
 
Great post, guldukat

To the original poster please lay out what you are eating on a day to day basis...no offense but 155-160 and 5' 11" and with two years of training you say....we need to see what you are eating and how much you are in the gym...

I think overtraining has a lot to do with this...
 
i think guludkat nailed it on the head..your hittin your chest with 15 sets 2 times per week??? way too much..if your weight isnt going up change your exercise..try BB bench change your rep range for a couple of sessions..do something different..try 5x5 if your looking to add weight as well as strength and size..
Bench press 5x5
incline dbell 2x8-10
decline BB 2x8-10
 
hey bro, it takes time to make gains in this game. in order to find out what works for you, you gotta be open minded to trying new things out in the gym. whatever workout you decide to go with, give it at least 3 months. if you dont like how things are going, change it up. i always used to go with the one body part per work out with high volume, but my gains came slow. now i am working out more or less with a powerlifting routine and have seen more results in 4 months than i did with a years worth of a bodybuilding routine. i've realized that my body responds better to lower reps. for the main lifts i dont go over 5 reps, everything else is no more than 8 and not to failure. i find that this works for me.
so what i am trying to say, is that you got to find out what works best for you. the most important things are to be consistant, train hard, and eat, eat, eat...
 
I try to kick off the day with 4 eggs... if not then it's useally oatmeal and a protien shake.

Thoughout the day I'm at work... so I'll eat apples, grapes, oranges, mixed vegtables. Yougart useally. Sometimes some trail mix. All with a useal cold cut sandwhich.

Then I'll go home, and try to eat 1/2... will start to eat whole... can of Salmon (tuna is gross). With a little something of the carb variety.

Then I eat a normal home made supper... whatever mother decides to make that day... It's quite often balanced and she knows i'm about the protien so i'll get a little more meat :D

I'll have a protien shake after my workout aswell.


wnt2bBeast - would you say that on a 4/1 split, that workout would be good enough for me?? I would like to add a bit of size... I don't want to be massive, then more strength. Then once I've got a solid base, I want to tone it all up, and have stripper like muscle! haha... I've got the makings of it now, but not enough of it!!!

And if that is enough, and you guys believe that to be a solid chest workout... what can we do about getting something similar for my back/legs,bis/tris,shoulders,??

As it stands now I'm getting pretty down, as I'll spend ALOT of time and energy, not to mention $$ for food and supps, only to get an ill-planned workout.
 
Honestly it does not look like you are getting enough food in there....

Breakfast looks good in fact that is what I will typically do and I find it works out pretty well...

It seems like you have a very fast metabolism and it is hard for you to gain...that does not mean that I am going to recommend a see-food bulk diet but it is very important that you get in around 200-300g of protein a day and are eating around 500 cals over your matienence. We don't want to go too far over that because the fat gain will be "too much" (of course some fat is gained while bulking)

I prefer eating small\medium sized meals around every 3 hours. It seems like you are able to eat at work and you need to be eating more protein and carbs during that time...

Basically I would recommend eating around 40-80g of protein in one meal....and cut off the carbs around 6-7PM

I'm of the opinion that what you do in the gym is FAR less important than the eating factor if you want to grow...

If I sound like I am ranting forgive me...just trying to make sure I remember everything
 
(from intraining
diet but it is very important that you get in around 200-300g of protein a day and are eating around 500 cals over your matienence.)

This is way too much protein for him. 1 gram per lb of bodyweight is all he needs. So cut that number in 1/2. The calories yes , he needs more calories.

40-80g of protein per meal is also bad advise. I weigh 250 and I don't eat 80g of protein per meal. I try not to exceed 50g of protein a shot because it makes you liver and kidneys work too much in one meal. There's a reason why protein powders generally are 20-25g a scoop. This is because you should use more then 2 scoops at a time (40 - 50g)

If you weigh 155-160 , I wouldnt worry about when to eat carbs , just get them. You body will use fat as energy since your metabolism is quick. When you get my age and weight , then you will have to modify your thinking.

I agree with the eating part. You don't seem to be overtraining, but you are definitly under eating.
 
I still think protein is the most important part of the equation after total QUALITY cals ingested...granted I am not nutrition guru but this what has worked for me after I realized 1g\BW was simply not enough....

The reason I said 40-80g of protein per meal is because it looks he only has a few times a day(I counted 4 if you don't count the protein shake) when he is able to eat...also the idea of "the body can only digest so much protein at one time" is flawed as numerous studies are showing....I"m not advocating that 80g be ingested as a usual course but after a workout I think that is acceptable...

Yeh the carb thing was stupid I shouldn't have said that....if you are 155-160 it shouldn't really matter....but on the same token mcdonalds shouldn't be visited often...

Granted you are 50lbs heavier than me so maybe I should be listening more:) Just out of curiousity how much protein do you take in a day gjohnson5?
 
guldukat said:
I do.

You're doing way more than your body can handle. Just as some guys can tan all day at the Equator and not get burned, there are a bunch who get beet-red standing outside during a Wisconsin winter!

Similarly, some people can handle high volume, some cannot. Some can handle training to failure all the time, some cannot.

You're both training to failure AND doing pretty high volume! A VERY rare few can handle training to failure AND high volume on a regular basis. Off the top of my head, only three individuals come to mind: Tom Platz, our own Walking Beast, and Lee Priest :)

So, stop doing all that fucking work! Do NO MORE THAN two sets of each exercise to failure. Drop the pullovers; they're not going to get you big pecs, and they're not going to expand your ribcage that much (if at all).

Drop the fly movement, too...too little weight, not enough stimulation.


This is what I want you to do for your chest workout, every four days:

1--Flat DB press. Warm-ups: 20's x 12-15 reps, 40's for 3-4

Work sets: one with 55's, to failure, and another with 45's to failure. Once you can get more than 8 reps with the 55's, bump it up to 60's. When you can do more than 12 reps with the 45's, go for the 50's.

2--Incline DB press. No warm-up.
Work sets: 1 w/ 50's and 1 w/ 40's. Same drill as above: one set will be low-rep, the other a bit higher. Both are to failure.

3--Parallel dip. No warm-up.
Work set: 1 w/ bodyweight to start. When you can do more than 10 reps with your bodyweight, get a dip belt and add some weight!


At your stage of development you should be able to handle this chest routine twice a week and gain like gangbusters. Try a Mon-Thurs. schedule for your presses and dips. If you're not gaining at least a rep on every work set, try cleaning up your form. Reduce the weights and slow your negatives down to a legit 2-3 seconds. If THAT doesn't work, drop one of the press worksets.

And if THAT doesn't work, I'll personally kiss your ass.
Click to expand...


:FRlol: :FRlol: ThanX for that grand introduction brother!! Ive just become accustomed to it really. I guess Im willing to believe maybe some people actually cant handle it physically, even if they are FORCED to do so. In my mind though, I always feel the body will adapt to these stresses. Maybe Im wrong. I can only really test myself. I was 105lbs of bone when I started and have been training this way since I started, though its become amplified even more over the years. It never seemed that I had genetics on my side at all. The only thing that seemed good was my muscle shapes and peaks. Mainly the shoulders,traps and biceps. But the size has come very slow over nearly ten years. My uncle was a monster, but he used AAS and alot of it at times, to get that way. I think Ill always believe that those that dont grow arent training hard enough,eating enough or being consistant. But I accept that I could be wrong. ThanX again brother!!
 
Welcome to the boards brother!! From my perspective your training volume looks good.But Im a bit of an extremist as many on here will attest. Either way, this type of volume has worked for me. Most all of my sets are taken to failure or very close to it. Some sets go beyond normal muscle failure, like when I incorporate dropsets. Plateaus can last a LONG time. You cant expect to increase weekly, if you did youd be repping 175lb dumbells by the end of the year, and 300+ dumbells the next. The idea is to strive for these increases. Personally I prefer the barbell presses for progression in size and strength gains. Ive never been big on dumbells for chest. They do incorporate more stabilizer muscles, but I dont want to be throwing around 200lb dumbells when Im repping 405lbs on flat bench. Not only that, but barbells seem easier to take to complete failure, with the dumbells they can just collapse on you and smash your face. I never seem to get sore on them either. Id reccomend flat barbell and incline barbell. These worked best for me. Try to eat atleast your bodyweight in grams of protein, more if possible and be PATIENT and consistant. Patience can be the hardest part. Keep going strong!
 
InTraining said:
I still think protein is the most important part of the equation after total QUALITY cals ingested...granted I am not nutrition guru but this what has worked for me after I realized 1g\BW was simply not enough....

How did you come to the conclusion that 1g/lb of bodyweight was not enough?

The reason I said 40-80g of protein per meal is because it looks he only has a few times a day(I counted 4 if you don't count the protein shake) when he is able to eat...also the idea of "the body can only digest so much protein at one time" is flawed as numerous studies are showing....

I would like to see one such study

Granted you are 50lbs heavier than me so maybe I should be listening more:) Just out of curiousity how much protein do you take in a day gjohnson5?
Click to expand...

I take a little over 1g/lb of bodyweight , probably 275-300grams between whey , soy, micellar casein, milk and meats.
Could you show me one of these studies where people are consuming say 80g of protein in one shot multiple times a day is healty for them over long term period?

I would be interested in the liver function test of these individuals after doing so. People who have weak livers may need to undergo treatment before doing a high protein diet such as

http://www.newtreatments.org/doc/WisdomExperience/89

and

http://experts.about.com/q/1827/3102345.htm


I wrote about taking m1t, but another thing I was doing is what you suggest above, and this is what my liver tests look like. I don't believe the m1t was all of this elavation

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3943265#post3943265


You may want to get your liver checked...
 
From what I have read about M1t it is worst than most AAS in terms of its effect on the liver ...did you get any liver tests done after you were off the M1t for a few weeks to see if there were different results?

Yes in situations where an individual is taking in 600-700g of protein a day we would start to see liver problems but that is a far cry from someone taking in 200-300 g a day...

Also what do you consider "high protein"....It's all relative to BW and LBM...

I read the links you posted and the Atkins diet is certainly not what I would call healthy.....a lot of the calories gotten by normally by carbs are being replaced by protein and that doesn't help matters(especially the liver)

And I am POSITIVE I am going to get flamed for this but BBing in and out itself is neither "natural" or "healthy"....isn't the daily protein requirement for a sedentary person somewhere around 50g?

I never claimed 80g of protein in one sitting to be healthy... I am just saying the body will be able to digest it....I don't really think 200-300g of protein a day is healthy either...but that is what I need if I want to keep gaining and I enjoy this lifestyle of BBing

EDIT: i will try to find the link to a couple of the studies I was referring to

I found 1\g BW was simply not enough after I stopped gaining mass for around 2 months and my weights were still going up while my cals were over maitenence(sp)....Of course I"m not going to be getting ridiculous gains because I am a natty but I have been getting better gains after upping the protein...
 
InTraining said:
From what I have read about M1t it is worst than most AAS in terms of its effect on the liver ...did you get any liver tests done after you were off the M1t for a few weeks to see if there were different results?

Yes in situations where an individual is taking in 600-700g of protein a day we would start to see liver problems but that is a far cry from someone taking in 200-300 g a day...

Also what do you consider "high protein"....It's all relative to BW and LBM...

I read the links you posted and the Atkins diet is certainly not what I would call healthy.....a lot of the calories gotten by normally by carbs are being replaced by protein and that doesn't help matters(especially the liver)

And I am POSITIVE I am going to get flamed for this but BBing in and out itself is neither "natural" or "healthy"....isn't the daily protein requirement for a sedentary person somewhere around 50g?


I never claimed 80g of protein in one sitting to be healthy... I am just saying the body will be able to digest it....I don't really think 200-300g of protein a day is healthy either...but that is what I need if I want to keep gaining and I enjoy this lifestyle of BBing

EDIT: i will try to find the link to a couple of the studies I was referring to

I found 1\g BW was simply not enough after I stopped gaining mass for around 2 months and my weights were still going up while my cals were over maitenence(sp)....Of course I"m not going to be getting ridiculous gains because I am a natty but I have been getting better gains after upping the protein...
Click to expand...

Yes I did. I took a second set of blood tests in June after I got off the M1t. I also started cycling my protein more. So I will get them from my doctor and post them here.

1gram/lb of bodyweight per day is the general rule of thumb. This is what I would call high protein.

In terms of the Atkins and say South beach diet yes , you needs carbs to wash down the protein. I generally mix my powder with some sort of fruit juice such as grape juice since it lowers the lipid profile. Carbs are much easier on the liver to digest. I also take ginger and some digestive enzyme pills as well.

I would agree in one sense the BBing is not natural. But I think we can use science to do it in as healthy a manner as possible. This is why I got off the M1t . Science proved that it was not healthy to continue. Also it seems that protein consumption may be better in terms of health in smaller shots through the day. I agree that BBing is a lifestyle that makes a person go out of thier way to get the nutrition they need to keep growing. But if it can be done in a manner such as an engine running doing highway miles. Putting miles on the engine isn't necessarily bad. Puching it and then slamming on the brakes continually will put wear and tear on the car.
 
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guldukat hit the nail on the head. Try a Pl or a low volume high frequency. Most people don't grow well from high volume. You should be making small consistent strength gains just about every week. The nervous system is the key to making those gains. In case you didn't notice, I'm big fan of Westside training methods.
 
gjohnson5 said:
Yes I did. I took a second set of blood tests in June after I got off the M1t. I also started cycling my protein more. So I will get them from my doctor and post them here.

1gram/lb of bodyweight per day is the general rule of thumb. This is what I would call high protein.

In terms of the Atkins and say South beach diet yes , you needs carbs to wash down the protein. I generally mix my powder with some sort of fruit juice such as grape juice since it lowers the lipid profile. Carbs are much easier on the liver to digest. I also take ginger and some digestive enzyme pills as well.

I would agree in one sense the BBing is not natural. But I think we can use science to do it in as healthy a manner as possible. This is why I got off the M1t . Science proved that it was not healthy to continue. Also it seems that protein consumption may be better in terms of health in smaller shots through the day. I agree that BBing is a lifestyle that makes a person go out of thier way to get the nutrition they need to keep growing. But if it can be done in a manner such as an engine running doing highway miles. Putting miles on the engine isn't necessarily bad. Puching it and then slamming on the brakes continually will put wear and tear on the car.
Click to expand...


Glad we can agree on some things :)

Just for the "record" I am NOT A FAN of low carbs in any way....especially when taking in tons of protein.....but I do like to cut the carbs off around 6-7 PM because I would like to stay lean....earlier in the day though it's fair game!! Not unusual for me to have oatmeal and eggs for breakfast and a big bowl of pasta and meat sauce for lunch.
 
I think you should just take a few different styles, dc, hst, hiit, west side, whatever, try each one for about a 6 week period keeping track of what you eat, and your gains. It takes some time, but you gotta learn you body. there are hundreds of people here that will testify that their routine is the best for THEM. But who knows what works for you. The only person that does is YOU, you gotta step back, write up routines of all these different styles, and approach them all with a "KILL IT" attitude!

I have always worked with quite a bit of volume takeing each set to some form of failure. I got pretty good gains, but always platued! I have learned to try different approaches. I plan on doing all these different styles at some point in the next 6 months, and I will gauge each one in accordance to their effectiveness to MY body. And who knows, I might end up gaining the most, and liking a style like HST, which personally right now, would drive me crazy, cuz I like to focus and mutilate a specific muscles on specific days.

no one here has the PERFECT awnser your looking for bro. so my best advice is read about all the different styles, design a plan for each one, and figure what you LIKE the best and what works the best. but good luck bro

Peace
 
TRUEsoldier said:
I think you should just take a few different styles, dc, hst, hiit, west side, whatever, try each one for about a 6 week period keeping track of what you eat, and your gains. It takes some time, but you gotta learn you body. there are hundreds of people here that will testify that their routine is the best for THEM. But who knows what works for you. The only person that does is YOU, you gotta step back, write up routines of all these different styles, and approach them all with a "KILL IT" attitude!

I have always worked with quite a bit of volume takeing each set to some form of failure. I got pretty good gains, but always platued! I have learned to try different approaches. I plan on doing all these different styles at some point in the next 6 months, and I will gauge each one in accordance to their effectiveness to MY body. And who knows, I might end up gaining the most, and liking a style like HST, which personally right now, would drive me crazy, cuz I like to focus and mutilate a specific muscles on specific days.

no one here has the PERFECT awnser your looking for bro. so my best advice is read about all the different styles, design a plan for each one, and figure what you LIKE the best and what works the best. but good luck bro

Peace
Click to expand...

Words of wisdom right there!! Keep KILLING that shit brother!!
 
Just wanted to add a few more "cents" to a very fine post....

BTW, Nicely handled little protein debate w/o flaming...you guys rock...

I flux between 250 and 260lbs...so 200-300 grams of protein is average for me...somewhere I read that 1.5xbodyweight per day is a recommended amount for growth...so for a 200lb lifter that would be 300. Right?

Either way...I think we missed a very important point of drinking copious amounts of water....REGARDLESS of your protein intake....

As far as volume....I can testify to that....I usually lift (and have for years) in the 8-10 range w/o failure with most lifts and don't get great results...however, since I've been posting here, I now squat heavy (and in the rack rather than Smith) and almost to failure with low reps...same with bench and Dl's...(along with the old style 8-10 stuff)

In the 20 years that I've been recreationally lifting, I can't remember being stronger or bigger than these past several months....just wish I was 17 again.

Thanks you guys....<wiping tear from cheek>

:)
 
As previously stated there is no universal truth

Wether it is protein intake, supplements or training, we are all different, have different needs and will respond differently to a same routine

So try something new, give a little time for changes, evaluates the results and make the changes accordingly
 
Thanks for the info guys.... I think i should start a new thread, but i like those who've imputted so far:

- where can I learn about differnet types of programs? I was under the impression that there are 'types' of programs for differnet goals. The one i described, i thought is an intermediate prog to build mass and strength.
Lower weight is for toning up and tight dense muscle... and so on.

How can I find out these differnet routines? I was under the impression that I'm always to go to faileur - where one guy posted in this thread that he'll push for 5, even though that last rep isn't necessarily to faileur!!???




EATING!! WTF can I eat. I don't think I have a fast metabolism, I'm that middle body type... I used to weight 180lbs throughout my lower mid teens.... I was a fat kid. I lost alot of it, and I still have a small gut, but if i stand upright and flex my abs, it's pretty much gone. I've made the healthy choice for the longest time now, trying to eat more often and HEALTHY. I'll eat fish because it's good for you, I'll eat rice for a good carb, I won't goto McD's, and I'll go out of my way to eat veggies...

But for working out, is there a good site or book i can get on how to eat right??
Eating 6 smaller meals a day is hard. I eat when I can... I'm not perfect but i make the effort. And rarely do i eat unhealthy.
But without buying a box of chicken a day, what can I eat to get these good carbs, and good cals, and enough protien? (i didn't understand a few of the beginning posts about nutrition... a bit above me)
 
.... I've read only the most recent thread on 5x5... would that work.
doing a 5x5 major exercise for a muscle group, then doing 2 sets of 2 differnet exercises of the isolated or auxerillary catagory for that same group?

Bench Press 5x5.... Flies 2x8... Incline press 2x8
Curls 5x5... concentraion curls 2x8... hammer curls 2x8..

something like that... as some muscle groups are smaller and done require as much work?

As I've been told I'm doing high intensity and frequency?? Which i didn't realize was bad.

FUCK all I want to make the most of my working out time... It's odd, who would have thought putting on muscle - one of the most basic human abilities - would be so complex!

I just want to know about a solid plan for me... (i know different types, and i'll try em all, but come on; some routines are not made to get my goals)

And then how to eat properly... but thats the easy/fun part :D Eat more and change what i eat?
 
Im doing 5x5 and im happy with my progression..there are lots of ways to train they may not all work for you but you wont know until you try some..i can tell you this if you want to really put on size your going to need to be stronger..i think the best way is to incorporate some sort of strength phase into your yearly routine or apply 5x5..other methods of training
WSB (powerlifting)
HST
DC Training
 
So you suggest every so often just doing a bout of a differnt type of program.

which is fine by me, but i have to start on 1 as a platform right? maybe 5x5?

Where can i learn about the other types to see which to go for and which is better for my goals?



did i accuratly describe how todo a 5x5 program?

what about eating?
 
Well what I was doing is evaluating the information about the person and trying to devise a strategy for him.
1. If you are 21 and weigh 155 and are new to supplementing , I see no reason to start out at 1.5x bodyweight for protein since you have not experimented with the lower dosages yet. I also see no reason to take that in large shot either
2. Get some carbs. I woul;d forget this Atkins stuff since you are trying to put on weight
3. I would agree that if you are plateau'd then what you are doing needs to change so maybe a lower training volume may be better foryou. But understand you shouldn't change too many varialbes at one time because you will not know what actually worked when U start making gains

M1t
Liver Tests while on M1t (all in IU/L)
AST 129 H
ALT 58 H
Liver Tests after M1t (but was on M1d and OHN)
AST 55 H
ALT 73 H

One test dropped way down while the other one rose. it seems as if M1t is slightly less destructive then OHN and m1d conbined, which is pretty destructive.
So I will have to do another when off all (PCT)
 
I've been at this for a while, and try to have a protien shake at least after a workout, then eating.

I eat carbs, but stay away from 'bad carbs'... McD's and crap.
I'm just thinking that I'm not really noticing any major gains... maybe I am and i'm jsut impatient... but i'm not really getting any stronger, and only nominally bigger... just more defination.


So I was thinking of just swapping progs... One that I can go hard but doesn't take 3 hours as i work and goto school... so 5x5 sounds good.
Now i'm going at it hardcore spending between 1-2 hours per workout, everyday, doing different muscle group. 4/1 split

So doing the 5x5, was suggested working out each muscle only once a week.. often enough??


*gjohnson5, I have no idea what: M1t and Liver Tests while on M1t (all in IU/L) are about; but do you suggest not changing up the program as it might be too much at once? or how do you recommend i go about it?
 
RGS83 said:
*gjohnson5, I have no idea what: M1t and Liver Tests while on M1t (all in IU/L) are about; but do you suggest not changing up the program as it might be too much at once? or how do you recommend i go about it?
Click to expand...

That's good , and don't learn either :-) Stay way from that stuff at all cost.
Basically it is a steroid methlated 17aa (basic same chemical structure as winstrol , anadrol) but is legal. Unfortunately it blows up your liver. The numbers are liver enyzymes. When your liver is damaged it, is yells out "WTF!" and spews all these 2 enzymes into your blood. The numbers are liver enzymes in international units per liter of blood. The more your liver is damaged , the more it yells. This is what happens when you drink too much over extended periods or have hepatitis. So you have to go to a stomach doctor and explain your whole life to him so he can pin down the source of your liver troubles. In my case all was negative or normal except the liver enzymes. It's because I was taking some steroids (m1t) that destroys your liver. The problem with that is this will interfere with your digestion. Pretty much all chemicals inyou blodd will pass through your liver. So without a liver , you die! But it gives you plenty of warning. So I recommend you not take M1t

The 5x5 sounds good. You definitly have the drive to do it, you just need to give your body a little push... But don't use m1t.

To quote Walking Beast , go in the gym and
Kill that Shit!
 
gjohnson5 said:
That's good , and don't learn either :-) Stay way from that stuff at all cost.
Basically it is a steroid methlated 17aa (basic same chemical structure as winstrol , anadrol) but is legal. Unfortunately it blows up your liver. The numbers are liver enyzymes. When your liver is damaged it, is yells out "WTF!" and spews all these 2 enzymes into your blood. The numbers are liver enzymes in international units per liter of blood. The more your liver is damaged , the more it yells. This is what happens when you drink too much over extended periods or have hepatitis. So you have to go to a stomach doctor and explain your whole life to him so he can pin down the source of your liver troubles. In my case all was negative or normal except the liver enzymes. It's because I was taking some steroids (m1t) that destroys your liver. The problem with that is this will interfere with your digestion. Pretty much all chemicals inyou blodd will pass through your liver. So without a liver , you die! But it gives you plenty of warning. So I recommend you not take M1t

The 5x5 sounds good. You definitly have the drive to do it, you just need to give your body a little push... But don't use m1t.

To quote Walking Beast , go in the gym and
Kill that Shit!
Click to expand...

hey bro, what kinda warnings do your liver give you. I am on M1T right now, along with something the army makes me take, which they warned us is really hard on your liver!!! If you can give me a heads up on how to check my livers progress, and what to watch out for I would appreciate it, I kinda like my body workin, and dont want it just stopping one day sayin WTF?? LOL thanks bro
 
TRUEsoldier said:
If you can give me a heads up on how to check my livers progress, and what to watch out for I would appreciate it, I kinda like my body workin, and dont want it just stopping one day sayin WTF?? LOL thanks bro
Click to expand...

Go to a doctor and get blood test done. If it's really bad then you will have to get ultrasound done to get a picture of the liver and possible a needle biospy to get a sample of it. I'm now very careful to check right side of upper abs just below the pecs for any tightness or discomfort. You liver is your biggest organ so it covers a wide area

Since you've been on it I would suggest getting your blood tested. If the enymes are more then 4x normal , then other measures will have to be taken.

The terms
1. AST (SGOT)
2. ALT (SGPT)
are the enymes your liver will spew out upon being damaged
 
gjohnson5 said:
Go to a doctor and get blood test done. If it's really bad then you will have to get ultrasound done to get a picture of the liver and possible a needle biospy to get a sample of it. I'm now very careful to check right side of upper abs just below the pecs for any tightness or discomfort. You liver is your biggest organ so it covers a wide area

Since you've been on it I would suggest getting your blood tested. If the enymes are more then 4x normal , then other measures will have to be taken.

The terms
1. AST (SGOT)
2. ALT (SGPT)
are the enymes your liver will spew out upon being damaged
Click to expand...

thanks bro, I think i will have to wait a little while, cuz they cant do much blood test here!!!! It would have to be shipped back to the states, and that costs to much for the army! But I will deffinately get it checked out when I get back, but also, then I will be on some more intense medication from the army, that is supposed to beat the living shit out of my liver, to the point they suggest you dont drink any alchohol for 6 weeks! (ouch, fuck dat) but thanks again bro!!
 
TRUEsoldier said:
thanks bro, I think i will have to wait a little while, cuz they cant do much blood test here!!!! It would have to be shipped back to the states, and that costs to much for the army! But I will deffinately get it checked out when I get back, but also, then I will be on some more intense medication from the army, that is supposed to beat the living shit out of my liver, to the point they suggest you dont drink any alchohol for 6 weeks! (ouch, fuck dat) but thanks again bro!!
Click to expand...

Simple thing , do what I did and switch from m1t ro m1d http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/hp/m1d.htm.

You can also use the steroids at hmgear.com. But m1t is very toxic
 
I try to steer clear of that shit... although some days it's very tempting!!

In that Pyramid of supps, i'll use the bottom, and when needed middle... never the top.

Growth Hormone, 'roids'
Creatien, Tribulix*
Protien, basic supps, Protien


With the 5x5, it was suggested working out each muscle only once a week.. often enough??

Ex: Monday abC,
Tueday def,
Thurs xC
Friday yz

different letters representing a differnt muscle.. chest/ bis/ calves one day, back and abs another...
 
Looks like ok progress to me. In one month you went from 10 reps at 45 pounds to 9 reps at 50 pounds. If you continue to do that every month you will be using 100 pound dumbbells in a year! Obviously you can't up the dbs 5 pounds every week, or we'd all be using the 200s by now.

Gains will come slowly for natural lifters (with some rare exceptions). Just don't get discouraged and stay in the game for the long haul. Many on this board have been lifting for 10+ years to get where they are.
 
So back lash, looking at my program, and considering that my chest is one of my shorter workouts... but it's a 4/1 split, twice a week sorta thing.

Should I try the 5x5 or keep at this?

I think maybe 5x5, as my higher intensity part of that workout isn't really going up....
And I think it should be by now.
But i haven't been in the game long enough to know what gains are reasonable in X amount of time with X amount of effort.
 
Interesting stuff gjohnson5

Do you think M1T is more liver toxic than any other 17-AA steroid ?

In this case why not takew D-Bol ?
Well I know one is legal, not the other one, still....
 
Anthrax said:
Interesting stuff gjohnson5

Do you think M1T is more liver toxic than any other 17-AA steroid ?

In this case why not takew D-Bol ?
Well I know one is legal, not the other one, still....
Click to expand...
thats the problem with these new methylated "legal" supps no noe really knows..as far as sides go your most better off with real gear!!! the methylation prevents breakdown in the liver making it a more potent roid..most likely not very liver friendly!! if your going to take the risk at least take a risk that is worth it dbol will deliver gains m1 whatever may or may not but it will deliver sides..the choice is obvious!!!!!
 
gjohnson5 said:
I would need to try dbol , winstrol , anadrol...
I am sure it's wayyy more toxic then any other legal one.
Click to expand...
dont assume because its legal it wont be more liver toxic..methyl test (not m1t) a real steroid is one of the most liver toxic orals out there..these new supps are based on that!!!
 
rgs83, I'm not really sure what your program even IS. (Just a couple example chest workouts). I would recommend the 5x5 b/c it is a structured program that keeps you adding weight each week (by starting off very light, thus ensuring you can keep adding weight for at least 6-8 weeks).

I wasted lots of time in college when I didn't know what I was doing by just doing the same workout each week, the same old weights for the most part, just going up a little when I felt like I could - exactly what you're doing now, I suspect. Until you are very advanced and can read your own body, a structured plan that tells you what to lift (weight, sets, reps, etc) will help tremendously. You have a good start by writing all your workouts down - I never did that until a couple years ago. Man, I wasted so much time...
 
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