I can't decide....

[babbabuee]

I keep going back and forth and can't decide which way to run my next cycle...

option A) 250mg sust e4d and 200mg primo e4d (works out to 437mg sust + 350mg primo per week)

or

Option B) 250mg sust e3d and 200mg primo e3d (583mg sust + 466mg primo per week)

this will be my 4th cycle and I'm looking pack on some mass. presently at 5'8" 178lbs. Lost all my gains last year after dealing with a herniated disc and surgery in October '04.
I'd appreciate some of your opinions...
thanks in advance

 

[JeSt3r]

if you want to pack on the mass do

wks 1-12 500mg sust / week
wks 1-12 400mg deca / week
wks 1-4 dbol 30mg / day
wks 9-15 50mg winny eod
wks 1-12 .25mg armidex /day
keep nolva on hand incase of gyno symptoms...

In MY opinion save your money for the primo....if your going to run primo run it with var or something with less chance of sides...plus primo doesnt pack on the mass nearly as well as a nice deca cycle will

 

[DIVISION]

I keep going back and forth and can't decide which way to run my next cycle...

option A) 250mg sust e4d and 200mg primo e4d (works out to 437mg sust + 350mg primo per week)

or

Option B) 250mg sust e3d and 200mg primo e3d (583mg sust + 466mg primo per week)

this will be my 4th cycle and I'm looking pack on some mass. presently at 5'8" 178lbs. Lost all my gains last year after dealing with a herniated disc and surgery in October '04.
I'd appreciate some of your opinions...
thanks in advance

I think you need to make sure you're completely healthy and build up some strength before you do another cycle.

Every time you injure yourself, you waste time and money from the previous cycle. It's a vicious cycle......keep your body in shape and healthy......and worry about cycles secondly.



DIV

 

[JeSt3r]

I think you need to make sure you're completely healthy and build up some strength before you do another cycle.

Every time you injure yourself, you waste time and money from the previous cycle. It's a vicious cycle......keep your body in shape and healthy......and worry about cycles secondly.



DIV

good advice...what you think of my little stack up there?


JeSt

 

[DIVISION]

wks 1-12 500mg sust / week
wks 1-12 400mg deca / week
wks 1-4 dbol 30mg / day
wks 9-15 50mg winny eod
wks 1-12 .25mg armidex /day
keep nolva on hand incase of gyno symptoms...

@BabyJeSt3rNugg.....

I like your cycle, it's planned out well and in the right amounts.

Test higher than Deca, D-bol at a reasonable dosage, winny good, Arimidex and Nolvadex precautionary.

Tight cycle.......clean......smooth.

Props.





DIV

 

[babbabuee]

thanks a lot guys for the responses. I've actually recovered pretty damn close to 100% (don't think I'll ever be 100%). I've put back more than 20lbs since the surgery and that's just in the past two months, talk about muscle memory. I'm actually lifting a lot smarter than before. I'm able to get a great pump without using crappy form and heavy weights. I definitely feel my body is ready for it. Plus I won't be starting for another month or two so even more time to recover.
Now as for the primo, I've got a bunch on hand and in the past I ran it at 400mg per week and it did wonders for me, I responded very well so I figure with the addition of test, I'd respond even more so. Also, I left out that I would be running Dbol at 15-20mg for the first month. The reason for the low dose is because I blow up, cramp and the pumps make it impossible for me to stand let alone get a good workout. I'll also be running some proviron and nolva while I'm on dbol to keep the bloat in check.
so with that said, what do you guys think between those two options? In my mind I'm thinking that e4d would be enough, but e3d might yield some better gains. Just seems like a lot of gear.

 

[DIVISION]

I've actually recovered pretty damn close to 100% (don't think I'll ever be 100%). I've put back more than 20lbs since the surgery and that's just in the past two months, talk about muscle memory. I'm actually lifting a lot smarter than before. I'm able to get a great pump without using crappy form and heavy weights.

I think you're making a mistake, BabyBee....

You need to be 100% before you start a cycle, otherwise you're just treading water here. I don't understand your rationalization that now is the time to start a cycle. Get your strength and core stability back in the muscle system, joints, ligaments, tendons and surpass your past plateau levels before you start again. You're doing yourself a disservice by going halfass on recovery and thinking a cycle will boost you back to where you used to be. Try to get there off-cycle first w/ hard work and commitment and once you are to where you left off pre-injury, then you can explore a cycle.

Muscle memory is fine, but if you do a cycle now you will only be tempted to overtrain and leave yourself open to another injury. Don't overcompensate.......be smart and WAIT.




DIV

 

[JeSt3r]

Bro...trust me on this...save the primo for another cycle...if your going to run it with test...then do it with Prop...shorter ester = less likely to see sides...its the way to go....if you got the sust and dbol already why not leave the primo and get sum var for a cutter...

do

500mg/ week sust1-10
20mg / day dbol wk 1-4

that will give you some solid gains....

but if your really bent on using the primo..(which is a waste IMHO) do the second option

 

[PatBateman3]

if you want to pack on the mass do

wks 1-12 500mg sust / week
wks 1-12 400mg deca / week
wks 1-4 dbol 30mg / day
wks 9-15 50mg winny eod
wks 1-12 .25mg armidex /day
keep nolva on hand incase of gyno symptoms...

In MY opinion save your money for the primo....if your going to run primo run it with var or something with less chance of sides...plus primo doesnt pack on the mass nearly as well as a nice deca cycle will

I'd say winny is pretty liver toxic to suggest doing it for 6 weeks, unless he's shooting it.

 

[JeSt3r]

well i would shoot it if it was me....having 4 weeks of dbol already through my liver i'd say go the extra step and inject it

 

[PatBateman3]

well i would shoot it if it was me....having 4 weeks of dbol already through my liver i'd say go the extra step and inject it

ok, cool, it would not be good for anyone to stay on winny oral more than 4 weeks.

I disagree with your 500mg/wk of sust tho, I feel sust should be shot e3d, so 500/wk is close. If I were him, I'd just do dbol/cyp

 

[JeSt3r]

ok, cool, it would not be good for anyone to stay on winny oral more than 4 weeks.

I disagree with your 500mg/wk of sust tho, I feel sust should be shot e3d, so 500/wk is close. If I were him, I'd just do dbol/cyp

well im figuring hes already got the sust on hand....and also depending on his cycle history cyp/dbol would be a great mass cycle...

but also many people want the summer body now...so throwing some winny in at the end of the cycle along with armidex throughout would put size on and help get the summer body look...

 

[babbabuee]

Div,
much love and thanks for your concern, I appreciate it. But nonetheless, I am in better shape now than I was before the injury. I weigh almost as much as I did juiced last year. Strength isn't where it used to be, but then again, I'm lifting with much better form and I think the proof is in the pudding, I've been gaining since I started again at the beginning of the year. My diet, training and rest is spot on, I'm so focused and it shows. Plus I plan on waiting another month or two to see if my gains continue to level off, hell if I continue to gain, you can bet I won't touch any gear.
And I don't get why everyone thinks primo is such a waste. I have actual experience and some very positive results when I took it with dbol only. I can't imagine not putting on 20lbs with either of those cycles I mentioned.

I think you're making a mistake, BabyBee....

You need to be 100% before you start a cycle, otherwise you're just treading water here. I don't understand your rationalization that now is the time to start a cycle. Get your strength and core stability back in the muscle system, joints, ligaments, tendons and surpass your past plateau levels before you start again. You're doing yourself a disservice by going halfass on recovery and thinking a cycle will boost you back to where you used to be. Try to get there off-cycle first w/ hard work and commitment and once you are to where you left off pre-injury, then you can explore a cycle.

Muscle memory is fine, but if you do a cycle now you will only be tempted to overtrain and leave yourself open to another injury. Don't overcompensate.......be smart and WAIT.




DIV

 

[JeSt3r]

Div,
much love and thanks for your concern, I appreciate it. But nonetheless, I am in better shape now than I was before the injury. I weigh almost as much as I did juiced last year. Strength isn't where it used to be, but then again, I'm lifting with much better form and I think the proof is in the pudding, I've been gaining since I started again at the beginning of the year. My diet, training and rest is spot on, I'm so focused and it shows. Plus I plan on waiting another month or two to see if my gains continue to level off, hell if I continue to gain, you can bet I won't touch any gear.
And I don't get why everyone thinks primo is such a waste. I have actual experience and some very positive results when I took it with dbol only. I can't imagine not putting on 20lbs with either of those cycles I mentioned.

bro...no one is saying primo is a waste!!...im saying its a waste WHEN COMBINED with a high side effect test ester...such as E and C which are BOTH in sust.......why would you waste $14 dollars an amp (if your lucky and got a good source) for a Extremely LOW side aas like primo when your just gonna make up for the missing sides with sust??? it makes no sense to me bro

 

[DIVISION]

I weigh almost as much as I did juiced last year. Strength isn't where it used to be, but then again, I'm lifting with much better form and I think the proof is in the pudding.

Functional strength is more important than muscle mass.....remember what gives you the ability to lift more and build more mass.....strength.

Strength is capacity, ability.......mass is just the end result.

I say wait till your strength is at least where it was before with perfect form before you cycle.




DIV

 

[babbabuee]

I see what you are saying, I misunderstood initially. Thing is I never really suffered any major side effects from sustenon and definitely didn't from the primo. I think another way to look at it is: by using some primo in the cycle, I won't have to use 750mg of test, and thus in the end lower sides. And like i said, I have a decent stock of primo and it is 100% legit (i've had it tested and it comes from a solid source).

bro...no one is saying primo is a waste!!...im saying its a waste WHEN COMBINED with a high side effect test ester...such as E and C which are BOTH in sust.......why would you waste $14 dollars an amp (if your lucky and got a good source) for a Extremely LOW side aas like primo when your just gonna make up for the missing sides with sust??? it makes no sense to me bro

 

[babbabuee]

Functional strength is more important than muscle mass.....remember what gives you the ability to lift more and build more mass.....strength.

Strength is capacity, ability.......mass is just the end result.

I say wait till your strength is at least where it was before with perfect form before you cycle.




DIV

thanks again Div. I'm going to take your advise and reevaluate my condition in the next few months and make a better decision at that time.
I'd give you more karma if I was able to.

 

[PatBateman3]

thanks again Div. I'm going to take your advise and reevaluate my condition in the next few months and make a better decision at that time.
I'd give you more karma if I was able to.

one thing you could think about doing if you go the cautious route is something like primo/ox, or one of those alone for 8-10 weeks and just keep going real slowly with your rehab/building strength back up. Then you avoid going up too quickly from the he-man complex of a cyp/dbol cycle.

 

[bigpoppa p]

Jester is right, no sense in stacking primo with sust. waste of money. Primo is run because of its lack of sides. Sust will cancel that. PEACE

 

[JeSt3r]

Jester is right, no sense in stacking primo with sust. waste of money. Primo is run because of its lack of sides. Sust will cancel that. PEACE

finally someone agrees

 

[DIVISION]

thanks again Div. I'm going to take your advise and reevaluate my condition in the next few months and make a better decision at that time.
I'd give you more karma if I was able to.

Don't Stop, Keep Goin'......




DIV

 

[babbabuee]

Jester is right, no sense in stacking primo with sust. waste of money. Primo is run because of its lack of sides. Sust will cancel that. PEACE

Ok, so say money wasn't a concern, is it still a waste? Everyone's always so concerned about cost. Well, you're right sust has more sides than primo. the way i look at it is sust + primo is less sides than say sust+tren. And apparently no one is reading any of my posts, because I've addressed these concerns, I don't have any major sides from sust(500/wk). I haven't got one person on this post that said sust/primo is a good cycle and I've yet to see a good reason for it other than cost. well, my health is worth a few extra bucks, and I can afford it. or at least I could when I stocked up on primo.

 

[JeSt3r]

i hate to say it bro...but your thick headed....your set in the mind of doing sust/primo so do the sust primo and stop asking....many people have given you their opinions and i have given you mine....good luck

 

[DIVISION]

i hate to say it bro...but your thick headed....your set in the mind of doing sust/primo so do the sust primo and stop asking....many people have given you their opinions and i have given you mine....good luck

JeSt3rNugg has a point, BabyBee.....

Everyone has given you their opinions.....it's Do -or- Die time.....

Play your cards right......




DIV

 

[bigpoppa p]

Really i would not run primo with anything but anavar. The whole point is to have a side free cycle with gains that are for the most part maintainable. Just my opinion. PEACE

 

[babbabuee]

bigpoppa, sorry bro didn't mean to come off thick headed. I've been around here long enough to know that I can gain a lot of valuable knowledge from the good guys on here. thanks for your feeback.

 

[idcbp]

I think the concern regarding your injury is that while you are gaining at a fair pace now naturally, if you run a solid cycle you will gain extremely fast. Thats the goal, but remember that heavy juicing can lead to injuries solely from tendons and joints (and yes discs too!) being unable to compensate for the strength gains. You are focused on training and I believe that, but it takes a different level of control, one few if any of us have, to turn off that focus and drive when it begins to overstress our joints etc. This can level the healthiest of us, so add a pre-existing injury that is healing, and it is still healing bro even if it is doing well, and you could have a big time problem. Then you'll be kicking yourself for years b/c if you think you won't see 100% again, like you said, you don't even want to imagine what it will be like after a major re-injury. Not trying to rain on any parade bro, just trying to make sure you weigh it all out. The cycle will be there. You're growing like you said natural, and even there I'd limit the weight increases in problematic lifts. May seem like a downer, but it reality and we got your back. Good luck bro.