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HST question -- what's best after 5s?
- Thread starter majutsu
- Start date
majutsu said:
If you include me in the "etc." category, I'll give you an answer...
Just teasing. Seriously, 3RM seems like a good choice, but the TUT is a little low. With negatives, you might be struggling to lift the damn thing but at least the TUT's up there (not that it's the end-all).
Would rest-pauses be workable for HST, I wonder? I know it'd be difficult for a few reasons, but it's something you could do on your own, it'd lengthen individual "sets" to a very taxing level, and it'd definitely involve heavier weights than the 5's cycle. What I'm thinking would be something like this...
Say your 3 RM on bench is 330. Your goal at the end of a 2 week cycle is to do that for 5 to 6 reps.
In the first workout, you reduce the weight to whatever (say, 320) to start low. In that workout, you do 300 x 2, rack the weight, take about 10 deep breaths, then do another.
Repeat the process until you've got five or maybe six reps total.
In the next workout, you'd do 305 in the same manner, and so on and so forth.
At the end of the cycle you'd still need a spotter--on those last rest-pause reps you'll probably be failing--but the amount of help would be paltry next to doing true negative stuff.
Another thing you might try is what the Nautilus guys called "negative-accentuated" work. It doesn't work for most REAL exercises, but on some machines like leg presses, you could raise the weight with two legs, then slowly (and CAREFULLY) lower it with one or mostly one leg.
There are downsides--the positive would be very light at first, it's dangerous, and you're limited only to certain machines for the "technique"--but I figured I'd throw it out.
majutsu
Well-known member
Not bad!! Nice post! Great idea really, and yes, you are in the etc. category. 
I actually was thinking of flipping say to hammer strength or cybex machines (which I don't usually use; freeweights for me) just to do this sort of thing, or for greater safety, without a spotter, after my 5RM. My exercises are so basic, machine replacements are easy. And your weight guesses, e.g. on the bench are pretty close, so I don't want to do this kind of stuff with 300+ pounds without a spotter. Studies show 300+ pounds falling on your face to be instantly catabolic!
Apparently I already gave you too much karma recently, or I'd give more, but thanks a bunch!
I actually was thinking of flipping say to hammer strength or cybex machines (which I don't usually use; freeweights for me) just to do this sort of thing, or for greater safety, without a spotter, after my 5RM. My exercises are so basic, machine replacements are easy. And your weight guesses, e.g. on the bench are pretty close, so I don't want to do this kind of stuff with 300+ pounds without a spotter. Studies show 300+ pounds falling on your face to be instantly catabolic!Apparently I already gave you too much karma recently, or I'd give more, but thanks a bunch!
Tom Treutlein
New member
Do another 2 weeks of 5's trying to increase strength every workout.
majutsu
Well-known member
backlash -- I set my finish 5RM at +15lbs over my initial 5RM in the bench and squat. And +10lbs in everything else (bent rows, push presses, etc). My increments are 10lbs and 5 lbs respectively. I did this because of AAS and high caloric diet. The thing is, I don't think I can go much over +15lbs on my bench in 6wks. As it is, that's +45lbs in 6months, or +90lbs a year. Already seems a bit steep. Now that I'm into this cycle, I feel hitting +15lbs should be easy in the squat, and fair in the bench. But even 5lbs more now has me skeptical. Do you really think I can go say +20lbs in bench at 5RM in 6wks? That's why I was going to switch to 3RM. If you think I still have more growth at 5RM in this cycle, let me know though! Maybe 1 week 3RM and 1week substitute solo negatives like 1leg press, weight chins, weighted dips, dumbell curls and tris etc. These thoughts are very helpful, keep them coming.
Two things:
1) I'd be wary of making AAS-induced strength gains. We've all heard the stories about guys pushing their strength on AAS and injuring the connective tissue. Well this is a real threat. Your tendons and ligaments adapt infinitely more slowly than muscle, esp. when juicing.
2) Try to leave some weights untouched for when you come off. What guys often do is lift as heavy as possible on cycle, taking advantage of AAS-based temporary strength gains to drive up their maxes. Then when they come off, they're forced to lift lighter. This creates a situation of both lowered testosterone AND diminishing weights, the combination of which is more catabolic than either alone. Bryan Haycock recommends that you try to make sure there's room to increase the weights after you come off; this will help you keep the gains you made.
1) I'd be wary of making AAS-induced strength gains. We've all heard the stories about guys pushing their strength on AAS and injuring the connective tissue. Well this is a real threat. Your tendons and ligaments adapt infinitely more slowly than muscle, esp. when juicing.
2) Try to leave some weights untouched for when you come off. What guys often do is lift as heavy as possible on cycle, taking advantage of AAS-based temporary strength gains to drive up their maxes. Then when they come off, they're forced to lift lighter. This creates a situation of both lowered testosterone AND diminishing weights, the combination of which is more catabolic than either alone. Bryan Haycock recommends that you try to make sure there's room to increase the weights after you come off; this will help you keep the gains you made.
majutsu
Well-known member
I agree casualbb. I might push +20lbs but catabolysis after would be hell. I'm actually stringing 2 HST cycles back to back through the AAS cycle, so we'd be talking about the end of the next HST cycle, but the point is the same and still valid. Someone had suggested a list of solo negatives: weighted dips, weighted chins, db curls, db tri presses, one leg press, one leg calves, and one-hand nautilus shoulder presses to do for 2 weeks. I am going to accept the +15 on bench and squat a full +33% over my usual 10lbs non-AAS increases, save some weight for post cycle, and do 2 week solo negs. 1wk SD, then restart 15s. (I like 15s and get good gains with them, also this time with AAS, so I'm not dropping them.)
majutsu
Well-known member
Yes, but it feels much different than heavy concentrics. It's probably no different to the joints, but only my elbows are a little sensitive usually. I meant that heavy 3RM aren't going to give me as much hypertrophy as strength gain (in my experience only), so I figure some machine eccentrics will be good. I was thinking like 120% of 1 RM and 4-count on the negative, for 10 or so reps each. This would duplicate the slow-eccentric contractions so successful in recent hypertrophy studies. I've never done this kind of work before, so it may be interesting, and doesn't sound too joint stressful. Plus, while you are right on anabolics and tendons, some, like deca, store water and increase cortisol uptake in joint capsules, experienced by many athletes anecdotally as joint-protective. Winny is harshest when it comes to joint devastation like you are talking about; I avoid it. I do slow eccentrics on the earliest 15s with good results, but those are of course almost isometric. I think it would be interesting to do the 2 week negatives but by all means this feedback is all great, and all getting incorporated into my plans, so keep it coming! Any other ideas you all have are appreciated.
