HST is simple, and even obvious

[casualbb]

I think you should avoid saying HST is simple and obvious. The principles behind HST, while simple, have complex roots in a wide array of scientific studies and journals. Certainly the HST principles aren't obvious or there would never have been any reason to complete the research that backs it up. While it is a great program, it is based on scientific studies that inherently are complex.

Furthermore, while strategic deconditioning and progressive load are the major HST principles, there are many much more subtle ideas behind HST that must be understood to achieve its full benefit.

For instance, what length of time should the concentric and eccentric phases of a lift occupy? What role does increasing or decreasing overall volume have in growth? Does the growth from HST improve the potential for future strength gains (i.e. will westside or 5x5 be even more effective in building strength after a cycle or two of HST?). Why does zigzagging or overlapping seem to yield more growth than a linear progression even though this doesn't seem to meld with progressive load purism?

Yes, you are correct. The research behind the principles is immensely complicated, and that's why it took a guy with a masters in physiology to interpret it

That being said the principles are pretty simple. That's part of the elegance of it, that the results of so much research can be summarized so succintly

The other stuff you mentioned: rep tempo, volume, zig-zagging....
these are all program design elements. Keep in mind, HST the program is designed to be easy to follow without having to really know anything. People are used to being told, "do this" and so that's what that is, a formula that anybody can apply and get decent results

I wouldn't say those things tie into the principles that much, those are more concerns over application of the principles

 

[psychedout]

In all fairness from what I remember you didn't even make it past the 15's stage. Perhaps you should actually complete the program before you bash it.

This is correct. Nonetheless it made enough of an impact on me to never do it again.

DC training however is something I read up on quite extensively and think would be a happier alternative to HST.

A medium between HSt and a traditional BBing routine.

 

[Debaser]

I find it funny Debaser called psyched ignorant, when at the bottom of the link he posted, we have this:

"6. HST not necessary for some

Finally, and there are perhaps other reasons, but there are many who have reached their goals without using HST. For various reasons, whether it be low physique requirements, or the use of steroids, or simply having been at it for so long, there are many who don’t see the need to change the way they do things to have what they more or less already have. There is of course nothing wrong with that, and it certainly doesn’t make them ignorant, or stubborn. They simply get by without feeling the need to change their routine for improved results."

Which I agree with somewhat--but read what he actually posted: "I didn't read any of your post, but HST fucking sucks ass." Way to contribute. I'd call that ignorance, wouldn't you?

 

[Debaser]

Debaser, a question for you.sorry if this has been asked before..I know you have done DC training in the past..how did it compare to HST in terms of size gains?

I've gained lots of size on both protocols...my diet was more intense when I was doing DC training however. I honestly don't know specifics.

DC is definately a good program, but even I would modify it a bit given what I now know after HST.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Debaser, after one achieves their desired size on HST, what program would you personally recommend someone uses to gain strength solely?

And after that, any ideas of power? I know you're involved in some sort of MMA or something of the sort, and by power I mean speed + strength combined to make a strike more effective.

Size - HST
Strength - ?
Power - ?

 

[casualbb]

"Pros must know how to train, look at how big they are!"

...hmm...

Hate to say this, but with heavy drug usage and a large surplus of calories, you will put on muscle no matter what you do

Testosterone causes growth REGARDLESS of whether or not you train!
-boys put on 5, 10, 20 pounds of muscle during puberty just from eating
-male hypogonadal men put on HRT typically gain 5-10 pounds of lean mass. From sitting on their ass and injecting 100 mg/week of test.

Just for reference, pros do 2-5 grams test/week, GH, insulin, and some other stuff. If a pro is not making progress, he doesn't ask "how can I change my training" he asks "what else can I take."

I respect pros for their dieting discipline, not their training

 

[shogun4877]

There's always some talk of HST being boring. Nothing at all wrong with that, considering it's a totally subjective question. However, I find HST to be a shitload of fun. Yes, you're using the same exercises 3 days a week for about 8 weeks, but the rep ranges change every 2 weeks and the weights go up every 48 hours! To me, that's extremely fun and challenging, not to mention effective.

Just my opinion.

 

[halfaclue]

Ohhh, and not to stir up controversy.

Take all the biggest guys on this board and in real life:

needsize, Bigdho, bigandy69, quadsweep, galaxy... Jay cutler, Dennis James, Markus Ruhl.....etc -- surely they would know that HST is superior and train that way.

I don't think one single pro or very big guy trains that way. Surely if HST was the best way to train, most would follow it, yet I cannot find one single example.

Oh and also -- did you ever stand to think that the guy who invented HST stands to gain a hell of a lot financially by publishing these supposed studies that support things he sells? I seriously question what is behind them.

I'll stick with whats tried and true for me. Hitting everything basically once per week. Three times per week is silly IMO.

Are you serious?? That is such a weak argument. HST is new in the world of body building and weight lifting. When the first passenger air plane came out people weren't lining up because the trains and boats were tried and true. 50 years from now if no one uses HST then your point is valid but to make that claim now is ridiculous. That is like saying you won't try egg protein because you make good gains from whey....well you might make better gains from egg. Its obvious you do not like it which is fine but make statements like that makes you look foolish.

 

[halfaclue]

There's always some talk of HST being boring. Nothing at all wrong with that, considering it's a totally subjective question. However, I find HST to be a shitload of fun. Yes, you're using the same exercises 3 days a week for about 8 weeks, but the rep ranges change every 2 weeks and the weights go up every 48 hours! To me, that's extremely fun and challenging, not to mention effective.

Just my opinion.

I totally agree...I don't see how its boring..i'm flying all over the gym cut in on machines for a set here and there..the workouts seem to fly by and I can tell its been an hour more by my fatigue then by using a clock. I haven't seen the results yet but I'm giving it a chance. Also i am 6' and 250 so I can be that "bigger" guy guinea pig.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

"Pros must know how to train, look at how big they are!"

...hmm...

Hate to say this, but with heavy drug usage and a large surplus of calories, you will put on muscle no matter what you do

Testosterone causes growth REGARDLESS of whether or not you train!
-boys put on 5, 10, 20 pounds of muscle during puberty just from eating
-male hypogonadal men put on HRT typically gain 5-10 pounds of lean mass. From sitting on their ass and injecting 100 mg/week of test.

Just for reference, pros do 2-5 grams test/week, GH, insulin, and some other stuff. If a pro is not making progress, he doesn't ask "how can I change my training" he asks "what else can I take."

I respect pros for their dieting discipline, not their training

Casuall with all do respect no one knows what pros use yes they use high doses and yes test CAN but NOT always cause muscle growth even in untrained individuals..you should visit the anabolics section there are people on 750 g of test yet you can barel tell they work out..its more than steroids if your natural thats fine stay that way if you want but dont assume because someone is large that its only because of drugs and nothing else..

I beg to differ with your last statement Jay cutler changed from doing 20 sets per bodypart to 9-12 sets for the arnold look at his pics he looked very flat even smaller..yes he won but he did not look his best..look at pics from 2001 and compare them to 2004 especially his right side...lots of pros do use the help of others for their nutrition and training..