How's This Idea For Hypertrophy/Strength?

[Vanchatron]

I'm trying to approach this in a way which doesn't make it seem cliche, so please bear with me if it does. Anyway...

I've had a lot of success with Bill Starr's 5x5 program, shown in the following link - Bill Starr - Glenn Pendlay 5x5 - Periodized Version, Dual Factor Theory

I like to switch things up every so often though, so that I don't get bored with my training & can stay motivated, so I had a thought. What about doing 5x5 for 6 weeks, then a higher volume version of it for another 6 weeks, then take a week off & start again back at 5x5.

The 5x5 program teaches you that Compound exercises should ALWAYS take precedence over Isolation exercises, and a lot of the time Iso's aren't even needed because the Compound exercises take care of the smaller muscles for you. Obviously though, if a certain muscle isn't progressing the way you'd like (rear delts, biceps, triceps etc) then you'll add in an isolation exercise at the end of your workout for that particular muscle.

Here's an example of a 5x5 workout - Click Me


Now what if (for a change in volume) I was to change the 5x5 to 3x10? That's still around the same number of reps per exercise & the actual program itself would stay the same, e.g. Squatting 3x a week & having a Medium/Light/Heavy (Mon/Wed/Fri) day, but I'd be training with lighter weights & more volume (reps) than the 5x5, so hopefully this would be enough of a change in stimulus to keep progressing in Size/Strength.

This routine (like the 5x5) would be around 95% focused on compound exercises, and isolations would only enter the picture if a muscle group was starting to lag behind or if I felt that I needed to train a certain muscle group more than the others for a while.


The program would look something like this:

Monday - Squat/Bench/Row

3 x 10 Squats
3 x 10 Bench
3 x 10 Rows

Wednesday - Squat/Deadlift/Mil Press/Pull-Ups

3 x 10 Squats (10-20% Less than Monday)
3 x 10 Deadlifts
3 x 10 Military Press
3 x 10 Pull-Ups

Friday - Squat/Bench/Row

3 x 10 Squats
3 x 10 Bench
3 x 10 Rows

Also IF this would work, I'm wondering whether to use Ramped sets or not in the 3x10 phase (e.g. instead of benching 250lbs for 5 sets, you "Ramp" up to it by doing something like 210/220/230/240/250lbs). When training 5x5, you DO use ramped sets at times (see the attached pic) in order to keep the weight progressing on a certain exercise, but seeing as this 3x10 phase is more for hypertrophy than strength, I was wondering if "ramping" up the weights is necessary or not? If I DID use ramped sets, the program would look like this:

Monday - Squat/Bench/Row

3 x 10 Squats
3 x 10 (Ramped) Bench
3 x 10 (Ramped) Rows

Wednesday - Squat/Deadlift/Mil Press/Pull-Ups

3 x 10 Squats (10-20% Less than Monday)
3 x 10 Deadlifts
3 x 10 Military Press
3 x 10 Pull-Ups

Friday - Squat/Bench/Row

3 x 10 (Ramped) Squats
3 x 10 Bench
3 x 10 Rows

How do you guys think this approach to training would play out?

 

[immebz]

I would do 3x8. And always ramp up the weight. You should do about 60% of your 5rep max, then 70%, then 80%, 90% and finally your 5 rep max. 200, 210, 220, 230 and 240 is too much weight to do 3x a week

 

[Vanchatron]

I wouldn't be ramping up 3x a week. It would be ONCE per week for the big exercises Bench/Row/Squats. E.g. on Monday I'd use ramping sets for Bench & Rows, and on Friday I'd use ramping sets for Squats. This is how the 5x5 method is played out, so I was just gonna use it for the 3x10 method aswell & see how that goes, but wanted to get some opinions first. I figured the whole "ramping of sets" business was for better strength gains, and seeing as the 3x10 would be for focussing on size I wasn't even sure if ramping the sets was necessary. Obviously when I do 5x5, I DO ramp the sets though as it helps to break through those strength plateaus.

You said to do 3x8 as opposed to 3x10. Any particular reason for this, or is it just personal preference? I picked 3x10 as it seemed to be a decent jump in reps from 5x5, therefore I figured it'd be a decent change in stimulus for hypertrophy & to keep gains coming.

 

[lockdownd7]

I wouldn't ramp weights on a 3x10. The point of doing a 3x10 is to get some volume in, so I'd stick with one weight the whole time. Also, perhaps you could clarify something - you say the advanced 5x5 program which uses a volume phase to set up gains in an intensification phase yet you're planning on using this program for 6 weeks? This would basically miss out on the intensification phase, the entire point of the advanced 5x5. Or are you actually doing something more like this intermediate 5x5? If you're doing the intermediate program, I wouldn't lock yourself into 6 week time frames - keep going until gains stall out. But either way, yes, a 3x10 would be a sufficiently different stimulus to keep things fresh.

 

[Vanchatron]

perhaps you could clarify something - you say the advanced 5x5 program which uses a volume phase to set up gains in an intensification phase yet you're planning on using this program for 6 weeks? This would basically miss out on the intensification phase, the entire point of the advanced 5x5.

Sorry don't quite understand you there, but if what you're saying is "why are you only doing the routine for 6 weeks, it's meant to be longer than that" then I figured there was 2 options (yes I was talking about the advanced version by the way):

Option 1 - Deload and Peak 3x3 (Weeks 5-9)
Or
Option 2 - Pure Deload (Weeks 5-6)

I tried the Deload & Peak (weeks 5-9) part the first time I tried the program, and just felt as if the 3x3 phase went on too long. 4-5 weeks of training in the 3x3 range just didn't feel right in regards to what I was trying to achieve (hypertrophy). Yes my strength went up like crazy, but I couldn't see that doing anything for hypertrophy.

That's why I figured I'd just go with the "Pure Deload" this time round instead which is 2 weeks of 3x3 as opposed to 4-5 weeks, the only difference being that you drop the Friday workout when doing it this way.

 

[lockdownd7]

Sorry don't quite understand you there, but if what you're saying is "why are you only doing the routine for 6 weeks, it's meant to be longer than that" then I figured there was 2 options (yes I was talking about the advanced version by the way):

Option 1 - Deload and Peak 3x3 (Weeks 5-9)
Or
Option 2 - Pure Deload (Weeks 5-6)

I tried the Deload & Peak (weeks 5-9) part the first time I tried the program, and just felt as if the 3x3 phase went on too long. 4-5 weeks of training in the 3x3 range just didn't feel right in regards to what I was trying to achieve (hypertrophy). Yes my strength went up like crazy, but I couldn't see that doing anything for hypertrophy.

That's why I figured I'd just go with the "Pure Deload" this time round instead which is 2 weeks of 3x3 as opposed to 4-5 weeks, the only difference being that you drop the Friday workout when doing it this way.

Ok, yea, that makes a lot more sense. Well, a good volume phase heightens recovery ability so that strength gains are usually better with option 1. But yes, the volume is very low so that's not ideal for hypertrophy. So it's really up to you:

option 1 - extended strength phase
option 2 - recover and get on to hypertrophy phase

and the answer is just based on your priorities right now, which sounds like hypertrophy.

 

[Vanchatron]

Thanks a lot, that's great!

 

[ceo]

If you are having success following the program as it is outlined...WHY would you want to change it? Boredom? If you are moving the weights up every week like you should be, why are you getting bored? I get excited when I can add weight to the bar. Those 2.5 lb. plates are my best friends!

This is why people don't grow like they should...they stop doing what is working. They want to do the "Weider Shock Principle"...bullshit! If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[Vanchatron]

If you are having success following the program as it is outlined...WHY would you want to change it? Boredom? If you are moving the weights up every week like you should be, why are you getting bored? I get excited when I can add weight to the bar. Those 2.5 lb. plates are my best friends!

This is why people don't grow like they should...they stop doing what is working. They want to do the "Weider Shock Principle"...bullshit! If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

It's just for when the program DOES start to become stale & I need a change. I like to have a future plan no matter what happens. I don't really like to think "I'll think of that part when I come to it" because then I'm left thinking about things for too long.

 

[gjohnson5]

This routine (like the 5x5) would be around 95% focused on compound exercises, and isolations would only enter the picture if a muscle group was starting to lag behind or if I felt that I needed to train a certain muscle group more than the others for a while.

I'm kinda confused when you say 95% are you suggesting ddoing 3 set of of 10 for 95% 1RM?


3x10 is more volume and should be more like 75% then 95% unless you mean 10 sets of 3 reps. Then it makes sense

 

[gjohnson5]

I would do 3x8. And always ramp up the weight. You should do about 60% of your 5rep max, then 70%, then 80%, 90% and finally your 5 rep max. 200, 210, 220, 230 and 240 is too much weight to do 3x a week

This makes sense to me

 

[Vanchatron]

I'm kinda confused when you say 95% are you suggesting ddoing 3 set of of 10 for 95% 1RM?


3x10 is more volume and should be more like 75% then 95% unless you mean 10 sets of 3 reps. Then it makes sense

No what I mean is... The routine will be made up of around 95% compound exercises. The other 5% will be for accessory work such as Curls etc if I ever notice a lagging bodypart.

3x10 at 95% of 1RM would just be ridiculous.