How are speed squats supposed to feel?

[casualbb]

Today was the first time I've done squats specifically to move the bar as fast as possible.

I loaded up somewhere a bit below my 15RM (60% of 1RM, I'm guessing), and did 3x3 moving the weight as quickly as I could.

On the whole, it all felt very easy. I exploded pretty nicely, and actually had to slow myself down lest I actually jump off the floor.

I didn't use bands because I don't have them, but I do plan to get some in the future.

But all being said, it felt very easy. Is that supposed to be the case?

 

[slobberknocker]

For 3 sets, yes. When I did westside, my speed squats were 10 sets of 2 with 60 seconds between them. And that was a tough workout. By the end I'd be sweating profusely and breathing hard. Try 10 doubles next time, with minimal rest. Use about the same weight, or even 20 lbs less (mine were around 40% of my raw 1RM).

 

[coolcolj]

If it feel easy then add more weight

 

[rbrown]

In my opinion, they are not supposed to be that easy. 60% is too low if you are not using bands. I would say they should be challenging, but not so hard that you are straining it out for 3 seconds or something. I do 5-8 sets of 2 with 45 seconds rest between each set. My sets are heavy enough so that if I do not treat them seriously I will get hurt. Just experiment. Many people complain that they have trouble at a meet when they max because they have been doing speed squats. In my opinion, those people are going too light on speed sqt day.

 

[casualbb]

What actual set/rep scheme do you recommend, CCJ?

 

[casualbb]

Also keep in mind I'm trying to implement speed squats within the context of an HST cycle, so I don't have all that long to recover before I hit the squats again. That's why I'd rather err on the side of too little volume...

 

[coolcolj]

I like triples, 5x3 etc
going up in weight every set, by 10lbs. So start at 50% and add 10lbs every set, so by the time your at the 5th+ set, your around the 70% mark

that way you get a nice specturm of load, and as you begin to fatigue the weight is going heavier, so your forced to really push hard to get the weight moving. And you also have a reference of speed from the lighter sets.

60% isn't cut and dry. If your 1RM is low then chances are 60% is too light, it varies from person to person.

 

[coolcolj]

related info from CT -

---

Christian Thibaudeau

Optimal training load

Lately I've been testing my FitroDyne unit (which measure power output and velocity during a movement) to look for the best training load to use. I tested several of my athletes which include hockey players, football players, olympic lifters, powerlifters and a sprinter. I have attached a graph showing the power and velocity curve at various percentage of 1RM. Below are my conclusion regarding this little experimentation:

General findings

1. Peak power occurs at 50-55% on average

2. Submaximal power (90-100% of max power) is produced with loads ranging from 40 to 65% of maximum

3. Maximum velocity is reached with the lightest tested load (10%); it is quite possible that it could be even higher with lighter loads

4. Submaximal velocity (90-100% of max velocity) is produced with loads ranging from 10 to 25% of maximum

5. There is an inverse proportional relationship between velocity and load: the higher the load, the slow the bar speed

6. The power curve is parabolic: at the highest velocities, the load is too low and at the heaviest loads the velocity is too low to lead to an important power output

Training zones

In the preceding graph we can distinguish 4 different training zones:

Zone 1 Speed training (10-25% of max load): In this zone, speed is maximized while power output and force are low. This training zone can be used to train speed of movement but has little benefit for power and strength athletes. When training in this zone it is preferable to use the ballistic method or plyometrics (shock training): projecting the load or body in the air, because with regular lifting the deceleration phase will be much longer which will not have a very positive effect on speed. Exercises such as the jump squats, bench throws and medicine ball throws are best suited for this training zone.


Zone 2 Speed-strength (25-50% of max load): It is in this zone that we find the best compromise between power and speed. If you train in this zone you will get important gains in power and speed, however the gains in limit strength will be marginal. With this training zone it is best to use accommodating resistance (bands or chains) to, once again, reduce deceleration time which will help maximize speed and power development.

Zone 3 Strength-speed (55-80% of max load): It is in this zone that we find the best compromise between power and limit strength. Training in this zone will give you important gains in power and strength with a marginal gain in speed. Power and strength athletes would be well served to spend a lot of their training volume in this zone to maximize their performance.

Zone 4 Limit strength (85-100% of max load): In this zone limit strength is maximized while power output quickly decreases as velocity reaches very low levels. For that reason, an athlete training only in this zone will quickly (pun intended) loose lifting speed. To avoid that from happening, an athlete should use Zone 4 in conjunction with at least one of the other three training zones. There is no need to become slow if you become strong, just make sure that speed-strength/strength-speed methods are used concurrently with limit strength methods.

 

[Exodus]

speed squats are to be done on a box not free standing.

i did free standing speed squats for the first time this week. and they are a ton easier than with a box.

moral of the story, get a box.

X

 

[casualbb]

I do have boxes... but what's the rationale of using a box? I feel like it would interfere with my form.

 

[b fold the truth]

I go fairly light but use A LOT of band tension. They are fast but my last couple of sets are NOT easy at all...

More than 2 ways to skin a cat though...just look at rbrown. We train differently but get similar results.

B True

 

[bignate73]

I do have boxes... but what's the rationale of using a box? I feel like it would interfere with my form.

teaches you to sit back. also breaks up the concentric and eccentric, similar to a floor press or board press. basically explosiveness from "zero".

 

[Debaser]

What if he doesn't want to do power squats though?

Also a power rack, setting the bar on the pins each time is very effective to remove momentum.

 

[b fold the truth]

What if he doesn't want to do power squats though?

Also a power rack, setting the bar on the pins each time is very effective to remove momentum.

It makes sense in theory...but just doesn't work that way.

Box squats do wonders for the deadlift too...

B True

 

[RusPA81]

Today was the first time I've done squats specifically to move the bar as fast as possible.

I loaded up somewhere a bit below my 15RM (60% of 1RM, I'm guessing), and did 3x3 moving the weight as quickly as I could.

On the whole, it all felt very easy. I exploded pretty nicely, and actually had to slow myself down lest I actually jump off the floor.

I didn't use bands because I don't have them, but I do plan to get some in the future.

But all being said, it felt very easy. Is that supposed to be the case?

You are still doing HST, aren't you Casual? How are you implementing this into your routine?

 

[slobberknocker]

It makes sense in theory...but just doesn't work that way.

I think so too. I don't like the idea of pin squats, and I don't like pin presses either. I think Board presses and box squats are both better. There's a very subtle difference, but the feel is just different. It's hard to explain. You just feel the weight through your body better. A subtle but important detail IMO.

 

[coolcolj]

You don't need to do 'speed squats" on a box, I don't

But I wouldn't call what I do speed squats, at least I don't bother with total set time like westside does. They use em to train energy systems for their comp lifts.

Whereas I use my fast squats for training power, where you want the stretch reflex flapping etc, but I'm only concerned with the concentric time, and I will take my time between reps
Come to think of there should be no difference between "speed squats" and normal squats
Every rep should be attempted to be moved fast anyway!

 

[b fold the truth]

You don't need to do 'speed squats" on a box, I don't

But I wouldn't call what I do speed squats, at least I don't bother with total set time like westside does. They use em to train energy systems for their comp lifts.

Whereas I use my fast squats for training power, where you want the stretch reflex flapping etc, but I'm only concerned with the concentric time, and I will take my time between reps

I knew that you used your bands and trained for speed differently...glad that you pointed it out.

On another note completely (not directed towards CCJ at all)

I also want to mention that when someone on here says that they are doing speed squats...they are most likely using bands or chains and they will be doing them on a box. If done properly...I don't feel that there is a better way to squat IMO.

It gets to me when someone says that WSB didn't work for them OR that box squats didn't do anything for them...yet they didn't use a box, didn't use bands, and didn't do it properly. Remember that it works...if done properly. You can't just take a principle here or there, put it together, and expect to get the best results.

B True

 

[casualbb]

You are still doing HST, aren't you Casual? How are you implementing this into your routine?

What I need more than anything is leg size. And not just for size's sake; I need a base of size that will give me strength later.

It's just that my squat poundages are pathetic; I really want to increase those and I feel that doing so would help me to maintain higher growth over the long-term.

So what I'm doing is this:
I'm alternating between
Squats x 3 at HST planned weight
with
Squats x 1 at HST planned weight, speed squats 5x3

As I pass my 5RM, I'm going to keep lowering the reps and increasing the weight until eventually I'm maxing out. At that point it should very much resemble westside, with the alternating maximal and speed days, but lower volume, no variation, and higher frequency. Kinda a growth-strength hybrid slingshotting into a pure strength routine.

I'm excited to see how it goes.

 

[RusPA81]

What I need more than anything is leg size. And not just for size's sake; I need a base of size that will give me strength later.

It's just that my squat poundages are pathetic; I really want to increase those and I feel that doing so would help me to maintain higher growth over the long-term.

So what I'm doing is this:
I'm alternating between
Squats x 3 at HST planned weight
with
Squats x 1 at HST planned weight, speed squats 5x3

As I pass my 5RM, I'm going to keep lowering the reps and increasing the weight until eventually I'm maxing out. At that point it should very much resemble westside, with the alternating maximal and speed days, but lower volume, no variation, and higher frequency. Kinda a growth-strength hybrid slingshotting into a pure strength routine.

I'm excited to see how it goes.

Sounds very interesting. Definately keep us posted on your progress.

 

[coolcolj]

If you want size I would give speed squats the flick and do those eccentric pause squats I have been doing!

3 to 4 sets of 2 will be sufficient and they will grow!

5-6 secs down, 2 sec pause and then explode up - use 60-70% of 1RM. Start with 60%.

You'll get size, strength and power benefits all round

 

[RusPA81]

If you want size I would give speed squats the flick and do those eccentric pause squats I have been doing!

3 to 4 sets of 2 will be sufficient and they will grow!

5-6 secs down, 2 sec pause and then explode up - use 60-70% of 1RM. Start with 60%.


You'll get size, strnegth and power benefits all round

That sounds brutal. What kind of weights do you use in relational to regular squats?

 

[coolcolj]

That sounds brutal. What kind of weights do you use in relational to regular squats?

60-70% of 1RM as I said

 

[RusPA81]

60-70% of 1RM as I said

Hahaha. I totally missed that.

 

[Nonerz]

Also a power rack, setting the bar on the pins each time is very effective to remove momentum.

Yeah, it's not the same thing...when you use a box you are sitting back and "releasing" so you start from zero, like nate said. Setting the bar on the pins will give you a stopping point, but there will still be tension in your legs, hips, etcetera. I think that is the point of the box...to break it up and give you a starting point to explode from.

Yeah, your plan sounds interesting Casual...definitly keep us posted.

Me on the other hand...I'm ready to lose a little leg size!