Holy Shit! Great results from my cycle.

[Madcow2]

I am 23 years old.
5' 10"
Currently at 160lbs (From 145 before cycle)

The 10 week cycle consisted of:

Dbol @25mg ED (wks 1-6)
Sust250 @250mg EW (wks 1-10)
Tren @50mg ED (wks 4-10)
Winny @50 mg ED (wks 6-10)

Weekly Mg tally for all anabolics:
Week 1 425mg (175 dbol + 250 sust)
Week 2 425mg (175 dbol + 250 sust)
Week 3 425mg (175 dbol + 250 sust)
Week 4 775mg (175 dbol + 250 sust + 350 tren)
Week 5 775mg (175 dbol + 250 sust + 350 tren)
Week 6 1125mg (175 dbol + 250 sust + 350 tren + 350 win)*
Week 7 950mg (250 sust + 350 tren + 350 win)
Week 8 950mg (250 sust + 350 tren + 350 win)
Week 9 950mg (250 sust + 350 tren + 350 win)
Week 10 950mg (250 sust + 350 tren + 350 win)

* = not sure if you wrote it write with dbol and winny overlapping, if dbol dropped then 950mg

So yeah. My cycle consisted of low dosages, I know. I gain pretty good off low dosages, and I don't get as bad of sides.

I don't know what you consider low dosages but I assure you that world championships and olympic medals have been won on lower mg per week. To add some perspective, in all of the cycles I've run (granted this was over a lot of years and quite a while back - still human physiology hasn't evolved in a decade or so) I've never exceeded 1 gram. I can say the same for a friend who was one of the better lifters in the country for a number of years (could put 500 overhead, front squat > 600, clean 480). I can go on but the point is that this is just to add some perspective on what are low dosages and what aren't and these aren't and definitely not for a first cycle.

I'd focus on eating a lot more and improving the big lifts. You might consider ordering Rippetoe's book Starting Strength (www.startingstrength.com). He's one of the better people in the country at adding weight to novice lifters - routinely getting 30-40lbs on an athlete in the first 6 months. Here's an overview on his squatting program and progression for the first year: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4658227&postcount=235. There are interviews with him and Glenn Pendlay over at www.readthecore.com. Only the first part of Rippetoe's is available yet which is pretty much bio with more on programing for novice, int, advanced lifters from him and Glenn due next month. The direct link to the one from Glenn a few month's ago is here: http://www.readthecore.com/200503/reynolds-glenn-pendlay.htm

This is my thread in the training section that covers a lot of topics: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215

Here's a very solid workout that's put tons of weight on people over the years - you'll note the similarities between Bill Starr and Rippetoe's methods. Glenn Pendlay also uses very similar methods on his lifters: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497774&postcount=15

This is probably the only post I've written on nutrition and it's concerned solely with the nature of caloric excess and its absolute requirement to gaining muscle. Given your low initial BF level and given that it was lower post cycle which means you sacrificed a lot of potential LBM gains it's worth a read: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4866519&postcount=465

If you have questions, ask in the training forum. Make use of what you will. Hope it's helpful in some way.

 

[fbodyguy02]

Weekly Mg tally for all anabolics:
Week 1 425mg (175 dbol + 250 sust)
Week 2 425mg (175 dbol + 250 sust)
Week 3 425mg (175 dbol + 250 sust)
Week 4 775mg (175 dbol + 250 sust + 350 tren)
Week 5 775mg (175 dbol + 250 sust + 350 tren)
Week 6 1125mg (175 dbol + 250 sust + 350 tren + 350 win)*
Week 7 950mg (250 sust + 350 tren + 350 win)
Week 8 950mg (250 sust + 350 tren + 350 win)
Week 9 950mg (250 sust + 350 tren + 350 win)
Week 10 950mg (250 sust + 350 tren + 350 win)

* = not sure if you wrote it write with dbol and winny overlapping, if dbol dropped then 950mg



I don't know what you consider low dosages but I assure you that world championships and olympic medals have been won on lower mg per week. To add some perspective, in all of the cycles I've run (granted this was over a lot of years and quite a while back - still human physiology hasn't evolved in a decade or so) I've never exceeded 1 gram. I can say the same for a friend who was one of the better lifters in the country for a number of years (could put 500 overhead, front squat > 600, clean 480). I can go on but the point is that this is just to add some perspective on what are low dosages and what aren't and these aren't and definitely not for a first cycle.

I'd focus on eating a lot more and improving the big lifts. You might consider ordering Rippetoe's book Starting Strength (www.startingstrength.com). He's one of the better people in the country at adding weight to novice lifters - routinely getting 30-40lbs on an athlete in the first 6 months. Here's an overview on his squatting program and progression for the first year: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4658227&postcount=235. There are interviews with him and Glenn Pendlay over at www.readthecore.com. Only the first part of Rippetoe's is available yet which is pretty much bio with more on programing for novice, int, advanced lifters from him and Glenn due next month. The direct link to the one from Glenn a few month's ago is here: http://www.readthecore.com/200503/reynolds-glenn-pendlay.htm

This is my thread in the training section that covers a lot of topics: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215

Here's a very solid workout that's put tons of weight on people over the years - you'll note the similarities between Bill Starr and Rippetoe's methods. Glenn Pendlay also uses very similar methods on his lifters: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497774&postcount=15

This is probably the only post I've written on nutrition and it's concerned solely with the nature of caloric excess and its absolute requirement to gaining muscle. Given your low initial BF level and given that it was lower post cycle which means you sacrificed a lot of potential LBM gains it's worth a read: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4866519&postcount=465

If you have questions, ask in the training forum. Make use of what you will. Hope it's helpful in some way.

Madcow- Holy shit bro. What a great post! Tons of great info. Thanks alot. I will definatly be doing more reading. K to ya!


BTW - When I mentioned "lower dosages" I mean in comparision to most of te fellas on this forum...

 

[Madcow2]

Madcow- Holy shit bro. What a great post! Tons of great info. Thanks alot. I will definatly be doing more reading. K to ya!


BTW - When I mentioned "lower dosages" I mean in comparision to most of te fellas on this forum...

There's a lot but take a browse through the weighttraining forum and you'll find a number of people using these programs now. Many naturals have put on 10-20lbs in 10 weeks - a lot of them have had years of experience and a number have used drugs before so we aren't talking a population of rank beginners. One guy comes to mind, Jim Quini who's journal is here: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=391939. It starts at weak 6 with him only up 4-5 pounds (still not bad and almost 1lb per week). Somebody was nice enough to tally up his calories and let him on to the fact that he wasn't eating enough. That was April 18th. Now July 8th he's around 203ish with serious increases in all the core lifts

This isn't really out of the norm either although obviously everybody is going to be different - hell one guy is eating 4500 cals per day and all his lifts have gone up significantly. Unfortunately, his activity level from his new job is so high he's not putting on muscle or even fat (so that means ALL 4500 calories are used for maintaining current weight and activity). His job is scaling back now and he's more accustomed to it but obviously there's only so much you can do and there will always be varriance. Still, overwhelmingly very very few haven't put on serious weight, those that haven't didn't gain fat either so it's simply a diet/activity issue, and there is no one that didn't experience very significant strength increases.

You'll find plenty of other training journals too. If you have questions just ask, myself or any number of people can help you.

One bit of advice though. Get yourself fully recovered and through PCT first because your system won't be able to handle the workload. The best way to maintain your gains post cycle is to eat a lot (notice the trend), lower your total volume/frequency but keep intensity (%1RM - so the amount of weight on the bar) high. Meaning that you might be doing 5x5 with 4 exercises in a day 3 days a weak (just an example) but now you scale the exercises down to 2-3 at the most and use 3x3. Maybe even drop a day. Pushing heavy weight will allow you to maintain as much performance as possible while allowing for recovery and not overimposing on your compromised hormonal system with lower volume and workload. This is basically periodization synchronized with your anabolic cycle. Once you get back in the swing, implement some of the stuff I linked above - that should give you some time to read up and get setup properly.

Good Luck!

 

[van_wilder]

Dude. WTF? It's people like you that run this forum into shit. Posts like this discourage other from learning form other people past experiences, mistakes or not. Ease up man, don't take this shit so personally...I'm not trying to dis anyone on this board at all.

By telling me "I think you have to put in your time in and learn how to train and eat properly and put some size on yourself before you hit the roids." is not going to change anything. I am an adult, and I can make my own decisions in life. I feel strongly about this ...So quit yo bitchin', thanks.

--FBG

Thanks to everyone with the positive feedback and advice.

So people like me who try to encourage and teach noobs to learn to train hard and eat properly before injecting and ingesting dangerous substances that could harm themselves and they don't understand are "running this board to shit"... interesting. I should have kept my mouth shut.
VW

 

[van_wilder]

Weekly Mg tally for all anabolics:
Week 1 425mg (175 dbol + 250 sust)
Week 2 425mg (175 dbol + 250 sust)
Week 3 425mg (175 dbol + 250 sust)
Week 4 775mg (175 dbol + 250 sust + 350 tren)
Week 5 775mg (175 dbol + 250 sust + 350 tren)
Week 6 1125mg (175 dbol + 250 sust + 350 tren + 350 win)*
Week 7 950mg (250 sust + 350 tren + 350 win)
Week 8 950mg (250 sust + 350 tren + 350 win)
Week 9 950mg (250 sust + 350 tren + 350 win)
Week 10 950mg (250 sust + 350 tren + 350 win)

* = not sure if you wrote it write with dbol and winny overlapping, if dbol dropped then 950mg



I don't know what you consider low dosages but I assure you that world championships and olympic medals have been won on lower mg per week. To add some perspective, in all of the cycles I've run (granted this was over a lot of years and quite a while back - still human physiology hasn't evolved in a decade or so) I've never exceeded 1 gram. I can say the same for a friend who was one of the better lifters in the country for a number of years (could put 500 overhead, front squat > 600, clean 480). I can go on but the point is that this is just to add some perspective on what are low dosages and what aren't and these aren't and definitely not for a first cycle.

I'd focus on eating a lot more and improving the big lifts. You might consider ordering Rippetoe's book Starting Strength (www.startingstrength.com). He's one of the better people in the country at adding weight to novice lifters - routinely getting 30-40lbs on an athlete in the first 6 months. Here's an overview on his squatting program and progression for the first year: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4658227&postcount=235. There are interviews with him and Glenn Pendlay over at www.readthecore.com. Only the first part of Rippetoe's is available yet which is pretty much bio with more on programing for novice, int, advanced lifters from him and Glenn due next month. The direct link to the one from Glenn a few month's ago is here: http://www.readthecore.com/200503/reynolds-glenn-pendlay.htm

This is my thread in the training section that covers a lot of topics: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215

Here's a very solid workout that's put tons of weight on people over the years - you'll note the similarities between Bill Starr and Rippetoe's methods. Glenn Pendlay also uses very similar methods on his lifters: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497774&postcount=15

This is probably the only post I've written on nutrition and it's concerned solely with the nature of caloric excess and its absolute requirement to gaining muscle. Given your low initial BF level and given that it was lower post cycle which means you sacrificed a lot of potential LBM gains it's worth a read: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4866519&postcount=465

If you have questions, ask in the training forum. Make use of what you will. Hope it's helpful in some way.

Great post... K to you!
VW

 

[The Terminator]

My momma told me if you can't say something good don't say anything....so i'm shuttin the f*ck up.

I have to sit in silence shaking my head with you...
Though part of me wants to scream out...

 

[Tweakle]

http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2076

good progress dude, but I think it was premature getting on the juice.

 

[will b huge]

Good improvements bro, but no way in HELL you're near 5% bodyfat. 8% more like it.

EXACTLY TUX!!!

Whoever tested you--needs to get better educated or his meters need calibrating....either 4.2 is NO WHERE NEAR accurate.....

(Still look good and ready to bust out---dont get me wrong---just not 4.2 or whatever....probably more like 8% (which is still great).....


Here bro--this is 4.5% BODYFAT....

 

[van_wilder]

I have to sit in silence shaking my head with you...
Though part of me wants to scream out...

If you want to look like these guys^^... start listening to them!!
VW

 

[fbodyguy02]

So people like me who try to encourage and teach noobs to learn to train hard and eat properly before injecting and ingesting dangerous substances that could harm themselves and they don't understand are "running this board to shit"... interesting. I should have kept my mouth shut.
VW

Van Wilder - My comment was reffering to your post. I see your point, but the way you said it was just kinda irratating. For example: Saying that I am dis-respecting others is 100% untrue. I have no intentions of doing that. This thread was started becuase I am happy with my results and wanted to share with others. I got replys with suggestions on how to improve, and then I get replys like yours saying "I shouldn't have juiced..." Those are the kind of posts that are pointless beucase it is already AFTER the fact.

Unlike your post, MadCows delivers the same message and is actually informative.

Eitherway, thanks for your feedback. No hardfeelings.

Terminator - Ya I know... I got alot of work ahead of me.

Tux & Will be Huge - Yeah, I have come to the conclusion that that test was highly inaccurate. Oh well...for what it's worth, I still look good though.