Ummm, after having read all the post concerned on both boards, all I can say is that last post by debs is 100% on the mark.. Whether you hate debs, or all nutrionists, or whatever, you guys have been pretty immature and debs has done her best to keep her cool and an open mind in the face of your rude behaviour. You should be thankful that most people don't have the time or desire to eat and workout like you guys. Imagine how crowded the gyms would be and how much the price of meat would go up if they aimed to be like you guys. I think a diet and exercise program that is healthy and keeps you healthy for life (without a 6 pack or whatever your fetish is) is debs advice for the masses. She has never claimed to be aiming her advice at bodybuilders. Your average couch potato would do very well if they did a little exercise each week and ate more fruits, veggies and WHOLE grains, and drove on past the McD drive through. If you want Elite BB advice (as crum calls it) then just stay put here, and let the rest of the world find what works for them. I also agree (after too many competition diets and clients that have done likewise) that that kind of rapid diet to very low %bf that debs is against, is detrimental to a lot of women. Without a lot of AAS/antiestrogens, the fat comes back even if you try your damndest to watch your carbs and overall cals. She never said any of your diets don't work wll for you, just that they don't work well for everyone. That is true. So cut her some slack. After all, she's endorsed crum's diet