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High dose first cycles.
- Thread starter Andy13
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bigAragorn
New member
I voted no because i felt that a gram of test let alone AAS is too much for a first cycle due to the fact that how much will you need the next time....
Im currently on 375mgs a week of test only and have gained about 20 pounds. I think that isnt too bad. Yet i would agree with someone saying 500mgs a week for a first cycle.
b.A.
Im currently on 375mgs a week of test only and have gained about 20 pounds. I think that isnt too bad. Yet i would agree with someone saying 500mgs a week for a first cycle.
b.A.
"No, but ONLY b/c of unknown reactions (sides)"
My reasoning is I've always believed the best and most sensible route is to take the least amount of drugs to attain your goals. In taking a gram or so a week you would never know if you would have accomplished your objective with a lower dose.
Reason #2 - I can't scientifically back this up but there has to be a point of diminishing returns. There has to be a limit to how much muscle you can put on in a ten-week period. This limit might not apply to side effects however. As I said I have no proof to back this up, but I can't be disproven either.
Reason #3 and my last. We all know steroids build muscle, but will not significantly strengthen connective tissue. So injury risk is high.
I'll think of some more and repost.
My reasoning is I've always believed the best and most sensible route is to take the least amount of drugs to attain your goals. In taking a gram or so a week you would never know if you would have accomplished your objective with a lower dose.
Reason #2 - I can't scientifically back this up but there has to be a point of diminishing returns. There has to be a limit to how much muscle you can put on in a ten-week period. This limit might not apply to side effects however. As I said I have no proof to back this up, but I can't be disproven either.
Reason #3 and my last. We all know steroids build muscle, but will not significantly strengthen connective tissue. So injury risk is high.
I'll think of some more and repost.
I'm not really sure you can say there is a limit to how much muscle you can gain in 10 weeks... Wouldn't it differ from person to person? IF you take some vegan who eats 1000cals/day, bump him up to 3500cals with a gram of test/week... Do you think it would be out of reach for him to go from 130 lbs to 180?
DiaBOLic86
New member
I voted "no, for both of the above"
The body gets immune to juice, just as it does to any drug. It is like drinking, sure people that can take 20 shots a night no prob look manly, but they are also spending a lot more money and doing a lot more damage to themselves then the 2 shot wonder.
Also, on a first cycle you don't know how you react to drugs. It would be better to have a mild reaction off 500 mg of test, then a very strong reaction with a gram of test.
The body gets immune to juice, just as it does to any drug. It is like drinking, sure people that can take 20 shots a night no prob look manly, but they are also spending a lot more money and doing a lot more damage to themselves then the 2 shot wonder.
Also, on a first cycle you don't know how you react to drugs. It would be better to have a mild reaction off 500 mg of test, then a very strong reaction with a gram of test.
ultragainz
New member
well i think the first cycles should be at a good amount of juice....lets say 750-500mgs of sus is good...so you can hit 750mgs for 2-3 weeks or so then go down to 500mgs....with some deca/eq at 400-300mgs with some d-bol too around 35mgs.....
so that cycle equals over a gram of juice a week....
or you can just take 750-1000mgs/test a week alone with some anti-e's(should be in all/most cycles)
so that cycle equals over a gram of juice a week....
or you can just take 750-1000mgs/test a week alone with some anti-e's(should be in all/most cycles)
ultragainz
New member
forgot add this....on the second cycle you can keep it normal then build up.........
or just keep it normal for the first cycle....
or just keep it normal for the first cycle....
ultragainz
New member
here is an example....
wks---test---d-bol----deca
2------750----35-------400
2------750----35-------400
3------500----35-------300
4------500----30-------300
5------500----30-------300
6------500----20-------300
7------500--------------300
8------500--------------200
9------250-------------------
10----250--------------------
ok this cycle hits over a gram in the first weeks then it goes down...
wks--test----armidex
1-----1000---1mged
2-----1000---1mg
3-----1000---1mg
4-----1000---1mg
5-----1000---1mg
6-----1000---1mg
7-----800-----1mg
8-----600-----1mg
9-----400-----1mg
10----200-----1mg
so this cycle you start at a gram and then go down....
so both cycles can be fine....
wks---test---d-bol----deca
2------750----35-------400
2------750----35-------400
3------500----35-------300
4------500----30-------300
5------500----30-------300
6------500----20-------300
7------500--------------300
8------500--------------200
9------250-------------------
10----250--------------------
ok this cycle hits over a gram in the first weeks then it goes down...
wks--test----armidex
1-----1000---1mged
2-----1000---1mg
3-----1000---1mg
4-----1000---1mg
5-----1000---1mg
6-----1000---1mg
7-----800-----1mg
8-----600-----1mg
9-----400-----1mg
10----200-----1mg
so this cycle you start at a gram and then go down....
so both cycles can be fine....
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ultragainz
New member
ok iam just saying this....i DONT give crazy first cycles to rookies....no iam NOT a hardcore juicer(i take average high/low amounts)....in the future i might be
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no both of the reasons above
For a first cycle you never know how you will react. You might respond to the minimum amount where somebody needs more(of that specific anabolic.)
We all know how sides can manifest out of the clear blue. One day your fine, the next your posting "I got itchy nips, help!!!"
I see alot of people running crazy first cycles, maybe I'm crazy but I think those of us that are on our 2nd or 3rd cycles should still keep it simple and the doses kind of mild.
Some people get evel kenievel with the gear.
For a first cycle you never know how you will react. You might respond to the minimum amount where somebody needs more(of that specific anabolic.)
We all know how sides can manifest out of the clear blue. One day your fine, the next your posting "I got itchy nips, help!!!"
I see alot of people running crazy first cycles, maybe I'm crazy but I think those of us that are on our 2nd or 3rd cycles should still keep it simple and the doses kind of mild.
Some people get evel kenievel with the gear.
solidspine
New member
first cycle, it just does not seem necessary to load up on a lot of gear, my first cycle was 200mg deca and 200mg test for 10 weeks, was just fine.
ultragainz
New member
well here are my answers to your Q you asked....
"No, but ONLY b/c of unknown reactions (sides)"......I agree with this one more...you never know what type of sides you can get from juice...
"If precautions are taken against sides, moderately high doses are OK.".....I agree with this one too....but even if you think you are taking care of the sides you can still get them...
so i go with.....
"No, but ONLY b/c of unknown reactions (sides)"
also what i posted before was just a thought...in a first cycle i WOULDNT have the dose too low,just normal....not everyone will grow like crazy on a low dose/first cycle.....
"No, but ONLY b/c of unknown reactions (sides)"......I agree with this one more...you never know what type of sides you can get from juice...
"If precautions are taken against sides, moderately high doses are OK.".....I agree with this one too....but even if you think you are taking care of the sides you can still get them...
so i go with.....
"No, but ONLY b/c of unknown reactions (sides)"
also what i posted before was just a thought...in a first cycle i WOULDNT have the dose too low,just normal....not everyone will grow like crazy on a low dose/first cycle.....
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How can you say the body gets immune to juice? Thats like saying that some day our own hormones will quite working. The only reason I can see not going with a moderatly high dose is due to how you will react.DiaBOLic86 said:
On the same note, there are many possible reasons why gains diminush and I dont for one second beleive its because you become immune of even desensitised to AAS. First I think we can all agree that homeostasis plays a huge role and the farther away from that the harder it is for us to grow. Another reason that I thuroughly support is that of pure resources required to build, specifically macronutrients. Almost all trace elements function as a catalyst for cellular or subcellular enzyme systems. Without these proteins growth can not occure and when on AAS the rate of growth that is attainable in 3 months often rivals that of what can naturally occure within a year. With that in mind I can say with almost certianty that none of us gets the proper amount of these trace elements during the 3 month AAS cycle that we would normally consume in a year.
I voted for No, b/c of unknown reactions, but what I really think is no because of unknown results/reactions. The person doesn't know how his body is going to react. For all he knows, he may have a heart attack or something. Also, it might end up being a waste of money because he may be able to grow just as much on lower dosages, or he may not be able to grow at all! I don't agree with the SUPER low dosage cycles I see, but low/moderate is more the range.
I voted no only because of possible reactions. I don't believe in the theory that you will need a higher dose on your next run because of doses used on a previous cycle. Actually i know it is not true, at least for me. I ran basically the same cycle 3 times in a row only changing test esters not doses and made great gains each cycle.
Barring sides, I think a newbie doing high doses will only get him to his goal faster.
I also think that a lot of guys think they 'grow fast in the beginning' and 'the juice stops working after so many months' b/c they are used to the full glycogen stores feeling they got in the beginning... And it doesn't seem to be getting 'better.'
IT's individual, though. Some guys don't want to suddenly blow up by 20 lbs b/c of what others may think. And, incase you could not tell, I don't believe that one should "gain all he can naturally" before juicing. I know, I know, it's not fair for guys (me included) to train for YEARS naturally to gain what some newbie does after one cycle.. And he should learn how to eat right, etc..... But, physiologically, I don't think there is any real benefit to holding out.
Andy
I also think that a lot of guys think they 'grow fast in the beginning' and 'the juice stops working after so many months' b/c they are used to the full glycogen stores feeling they got in the beginning... And it doesn't seem to be getting 'better.'
IT's individual, though. Some guys don't want to suddenly blow up by 20 lbs b/c of what others may think. And, incase you could not tell, I don't believe that one should "gain all he can naturally" before juicing. I know, I know, it's not fair for guys (me included) to train for YEARS naturally to gain what some newbie does after one cycle.. And he should learn how to eat right, etc..... But, physiologically, I don't think there is any real benefit to holding out.
Andy
i voted yes w/ some mixed emotions...
1. Dan Duchaine (claims 1g/week is best for a newbie)
2. I do believe that most all can gain quite a bit of size w/ only half that amount of gear. (as i have done)
3. I feel that your theory of going higher will only help u acheive your goals faster...J.C.21
4. In contrary, quad claims that for someone like him low doses are quite alright.
5. I sort of agree w/ s.k. some people don't really gain off of lower doses as some of my friends cant really put much size on by using 1/2 gram of test/week. (yes, diet and training were good).
one more thing...andy why the hell didn't you use tfse??? J/K (ive used that line a few times now looking at some of the posts ive seen)
1. Dan Duchaine (claims 1g/week is best for a newbie)
2. I do believe that most all can gain quite a bit of size w/ only half that amount of gear. (as i have done)
3. I feel that your theory of going higher will only help u acheive your goals faster...J.C.21
4. In contrary, quad claims that for someone like him low doses are quite alright.
5. I sort of agree w/ s.k. some people don't really gain off of lower doses as some of my friends cant really put much size on by using 1/2 gram of test/week. (yes, diet and training were good).
one more thing...andy why the hell didn't you use tfse??? J/K (ive used that line a few times now looking at some of the posts ive seen)
ultragainz
New member
so the second cycle i typed out any good? the first cycle goes over a gram of juice and the second one is just one roid that starts at a gram of juice then goes down...i think its fine...
Ercole
New member
Big dose first cycles are a waste of money and make no sense. A first-timer can make fine gains on 200 mg of Deca a week, so why should he double or triple that?
Don't cheat yourself out of the gains you can make from low dosages. Dosages should only be increased when the lower ones have become ineffective.
We all know the "more is better" crowd at the gym ... the guys who look like like the Michelin man's uglier brother ... fat, bloated, pus-filled zits all over their back and shoulders, nasty-looking acne scarring.
These are the guys who consider themselves "hardcore iron monsters", but they look more like overgrown marshmallows.
Your body can only add muscle at its own speed, and mega-doses won't change that. They'll just empty your bank account, give you nasty side effects, and guarantee that ONLY mega-doses will work for you in the future.
Be smart, dose AS conservatively, and you'll look better and have more longevity in the sport.
I had been juicing off and on for *15 years* before I ever even thought of using a gram a week. If I hadn't been so conservative, I've probably have to be doing a gram a day by now to see any effects ...
Don't cheat yourself out of the gains you can make from low dosages. Dosages should only be increased when the lower ones have become ineffective.
We all know the "more is better" crowd at the gym ... the guys who look like like the Michelin man's uglier brother ... fat, bloated, pus-filled zits all over their back and shoulders, nasty-looking acne scarring.
These are the guys who consider themselves "hardcore iron monsters", but they look more like overgrown marshmallows.
Your body can only add muscle at its own speed, and mega-doses won't change that. They'll just empty your bank account, give you nasty side effects, and guarantee that ONLY mega-doses will work for you in the future.
Be smart, dose AS conservatively, and you'll look better and have more longevity in the sport.
I had been juicing off and on for *15 years* before I ever even thought of using a gram a week. If I hadn't been so conservative, I've probably have to be doing a gram a day by now to see any effects ...
ultragainz
New member
ERCOLE---not everone will gain off 200mgs of deca...i would make it 400-300mgs of deca.
Ercole said:
Maybe.... If you were the size of a pro bber.... It's absolutely preposterous to believe (for instance) that you can grow off of 700mg of test at 200lbs because you "worked your way up to it." And, in another life, get to 200lbs on high doses, that, in some way, you have "ruined" it for yourself and now (in this new life) cannot make the same gains off of xmgs of AAS at ylbs.
What about injuries?
I mean, yeah the extra juice will make you grow faster on your first cycles, but you would already be growing fast enough with moderate doses. With those higher doses and muscle coming faster, wouldn't the chance of tearing a tendon or ligament, or at the very least weakening it so that further injury is highly likely, increaze more than the benefits?
You may not show it now, but that one day you are only doing warm ups, snap!
This is a risk we take with moderate dosing, but I believe greater leaps with higher doses are just asking for trouble!
I mean, yeah the extra juice will make you grow faster on your first cycles, but you would already be growing fast enough with moderate doses. With those higher doses and muscle coming faster, wouldn't the chance of tearing a tendon or ligament, or at the very least weakening it so that further injury is highly likely, increaze more than the benefits?
You may not show it now, but that one day you are only doing warm ups, snap!
This is a risk we take with moderate dosing, but I believe greater leaps with higher doses are just asking for trouble!
Andy13 said:
Couldn't agree with you more andy, i don't think there is any major benefit to holding out. It seems the people who get the greatest gains off steroids are newbies and people who have not trained for long periods of time, i start my fina cycle tommorrow and expect to add at least 50 lbs to my bench in six weeks, i will keep you all posted.
It depend on how close you are to your natural maximum weight. If you really are at your max natural weight ie:5'9 or 10 inches and a fairly lean 190 then a larger dose would be in order but I don't think more than 500- 750 of test alone per week would be needed. Save the larger doses for when you are above your natural max weight.....this is the only time you need larger doses of gear.
Ercole said:
Guys that are well below there natural maximum weight will gain on 200 of nandrolone per week but then again they will gain well without gear too.
200 won't do much for a guy that has been training hard and has put on a good deal of mass naturally.
I would bump the dose of nandrolone to 2mg per pound of body weight and also take some proviron 100mg per day.......or a little test...200mg per week for sex drive.
Ercole
New member
Guys, I didn't mean newbies should be confined to using 200 mg./week of Deca. All I meant was try low doses first and see if they work. Then the higher doses will work even better when you move up to them.
Everybody is different, but there's no question that gains on a particular dosage will decrease after some weeks, so why blow your wad on your first cycle?
This is just my experience and what I've seen around the gym -- including my mega-doser friends who are constantly complaining to me that "nothing works for me anymore". They're convinced I'm on MASSIVE doses, since I keep growing, but I'm not, although my dosages are getting up there ...
Your mileage may vary. If you can get the same great gains on the same dosage cycle after cycle, my hat's off to you!
Everybody is different, but there's no question that gains on a particular dosage will decrease after some weeks, so why blow your wad on your first cycle?
This is just my experience and what I've seen around the gym -- including my mega-doser friends who are constantly complaining to me that "nothing works for me anymore". They're convinced I'm on MASSIVE doses, since I keep growing, but I'm not, although my dosages are getting up there ...
Your mileage may vary. If you can get the same great gains on the same dosage cycle after cycle, my hat's off to you!
i didnt vote, but i think that high dosages for a first cycle r good and bad, sure u might be able to find things to counter act the sides, and get terrific results. well lets say the avarage first time user is 160-180 lbs cause thats what i see alot of people starting off these days, im sure we can all agrree that if one of these avarage guys take's 1000mg of test a week for 10 weeks and eats right will gain quite a bit of weight, water, fat and muscle, and i think im ok to say that one could gain 30 or even up to 40lbs in those 10 weeks. sure ur useing things to counter act the sides, and the gains r great and you look huge, well the people that see you all the time r going to be like holly shit how did he get soo big, oh he must be on roids, once people start saying that it goes arround and people start talking shit and your whole reputations changes, oh and not to mention ur bound to get some nice sized strech marks from gain so much weight soo fast.
ok im running out of room so im adding a post after this
ok im running out of room so im adding a post after this
ok heres a little storry, i didnt see 2 old buddies of mine for like 4 months cause theyve been busy with work and school and they stopped haning out with alot of our freinds, well one day some of my friends see them and see that they r 30+lbs bigger, and everyone started saying they were on roids, well of course they deniy it. well me and my 2 friends that i just saw for the first time we went and did some working out and were compareing our selfs with each other and ive done 3 cycles in the last 2 years useing low dosages and gaining 40 slow lbs, well i know i have no proof that these guys juice but when i saw there strech marks it was the worst thing ive ever seen, both of these guys had strech marks on the left pec that were 2 inches long and a centimeters wide and way too noticeable, now i also have a strech mark on my left pec but it is not noticeable its 1/2 inch long and 1/16th wide, well i told them i have juiced in the past and kept low dosages, and they came out and told me too, well they took 800mg test a week with 30-40mg d-bol for 10 weeks. didnt have any sides but great gains and huge strech marks, changed the whole way people think about them and changed there reputation, and now they put up with soo much shit, they dont even hang out with there other freinds, but a few that dont care that there way huge and some work out buddies they juice with, so a huge cycle in the begging can be a good thing and a bad thing, dont just think about gains, think about how it could change your life.
sure its great feeling huge and ripped, but its another thing when it ruins your freindships and changes your life in the wrong way. not too say that this happens to all but it did happen to my 2 friends, and they didnt like it so there not going to juice for a while and try to lose a little weight, and say there sticking to lower dosages, oh and buy the way these guys dont know jack shit about roids
sure its great feeling huge and ripped, but its another thing when it ruins your freindships and changes your life in the wrong way. not too say that this happens to all but it did happen to my 2 friends, and they didnt like it so there not going to juice for a while and try to lose a little weight, and say there sticking to lower dosages, oh and buy the way these guys dont know jack shit about roids
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Nathan
New member
I wouldn't go higher than 500mg test on a first cycle. Who knows how you'd react? Start with 1000mg ED and you could end up with really big damn tits before you know what is going on. Even with L-dex, you don't know how sensitive you are until you're tried it. You could also break out like a mother fucker with acne or you could lose more hair than you would have liked. Lots of things could go wrong. Maybe your cholesterol is already a bit high and then with too much damn gear it sky-rockets cause you're a dumbass and you have a heart attack. Who the fuck knows what would happen but you don't need a gram aweek to start IMO. It will do more harm than good.
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