hey NEEDSIZE...can you clarify your 5x5?

[Buddy_Christ]

someone posted a copy of your old 5x5 routine for me a few days ago. just wanted to clarify a few things so i know exactly what i'm doing. the split is great, and i'm looking foreward to starting it. here's that routine again

Day 1 chest/calves
Flat bench 5x5
incline dumbell press 2x8-10
incline flyes 2x8-10
standing calve raises 5x15

Do you do anything else on day 1 or is it just an overload to try to do more?

day 2 back/shoulders
military press 5x5
side laterals 3-5x8-10
deads 5x5
chins 2x8-10
shrugs 2x8-10
rows 2x8-10
bent over laterals 2x8-10

Chins - they're called so many things, so are you talking about overhand or underhand grip? i'm assuming underhand.
Rows - close grip or wide grip?

day 3&4 rest

day 5 bis/tris
close grip bench 5x5
standing barbell curls 5x5
weighted dips 2x8-10
incline dumbell curls 2x8-10
skull crushers 2x8-10
preacher curls 2x8-10

What are skull crushers? Iron and Gravity said he thinks they're lying tricep extensions but lowering the bar to your head, not behind it. is that correct?

day 6 legs
squats 5x5
leg press or hacks 2x8-10( I dont do any more exercises for quads as I dont need to)
stiff legged deads 2x8-10
leg curls 2x8-10
seated calve raises 5x15
abs - weighted static holds

Regular leg curls or reverse leg curls?

day 7 rest


only other mod i'm giong to do is make the 2 rest days in the middle into 1, that way i can go M T TH F and still have my weekends off.

Thanks for any help!

Mike

 

[Debaser]

In my opinion that's QUITE a bit of arm work. I know this might be straying a bit from needsize's formula but I would make a couple changes that might help your recovery a bit. Keep in mind that I believe in far less volume than this, but I really think you could stand to drop a few of the redundant movements and progress a little faster.

Day 1

Drop the flyes. They're not going to do anything that 7 sets of compound chest movements won't.

It sounds like with 5 sets of 15 reps for calves you're just going for sets that "burn." After 2 or 3 HARD calf sets you shouldn't be able to walk very well.

Day 2

Instead of 3-5 sets of side laterals, stick with 2. I would drop them altogether, but I doubt you want to go that far. Remember, you just HAMMERED your shoulders only yesterday, especially with the incline movements. Another 10 sets the day after is not the answer.

That's a tough back day. I don't think you really need the bent laterals. If you just knocked out 9 sets of deadlifts, rows, and chins, 15 lb laterals aren't going to do much more for your rear delts.

Since I do rows overhanded, I do chins with an underhand grip (stronger chin position) for the variety. Rows I use a wider grip, so that my elbow angle is 90 degrees.

Day 5

Man that is so much direct arm work. Trust me on this, there are many people that prosper from doing little to NO arm isolation movements. Close grip benches are a great movement, and so are barbell curls. Weighted dips are a TOUGH exercise and also great, but I wouldn't do those AND the close grips. To be honest, I think you would do great with just 5 x 5 close grips and barbell curls. Give it your all and you should be feeling pretty ill afterwards.

Day 6

The leg press and leg curls are redundant. I get close to throwing up after I do sets of squats and stiff-leggeds, once you apply yourself 100% you won't have the energy to do these movements.

I'm not sure why you're doing calves twice a week but everything else once a week.

I think if you follow these changes you'll have a great medium volume workout. I don't think you'll feel burned out as quickly either. Good luck in whatever you choose.

 

[Endo MD]

100% agree with Debaser. Seems like volume is way too high. The 5x5 movement is the real exercise that gains here, not the ancillaries.
I've been doing 5x5 for a while now with incredible success and noticed that less is more should be the credo for 5x5.

 

[lavi]

Is there any benefit to incline flyes vs. flyes?

 

[Debaser]

There's no benefit to using either, IMO. Both are hard on the shoulders. Inclines are hardER on them than flyes, but neither should be employed.

 

[needsize]

I'll try and get all your questions

Thats all I do on day 1 except maybe some drop sets for calves

By chins, I mean overhand shoulder width grip, but it could be any kind

skull crushers are what you described

On leg day I would just stick with the stiff legged deads.

I disagree with the post that 5x5 is all you need for arms. Myself, i have never grown from any routine where I just stayed in the 5 rep range, my growth seems to come from doing heavy low rep, along with higher rep(8-10) all in the same workout. If volume is an issue then only do one exercise of 8-10 reps for arms.
I also disagree about not doing close grip and weighted dips in the same workout. Since I have started doing those together I have added 3" onto my arms


Debaser, calves are twice a week as there are two muscles in the calves, one can only be hit when the knee is at 90 degrees, and the other when standing. If you only do calves 1x per week, whichever one you do second will suffer

 

[Buddy_Christ]

my workout is already pretty high volume as it is, and i havn't been giving myself enough recovery time. the volume listed needsize's 5x5 is about what i'm used to anyway, difference being that each group is only done once a week. my current routine is a 3 day split, chest/shoulders, back/arms, legs, so once a week, only one of those 3 gets worked once (whatever falls on wednesday). as far as hammering my shoulders, they've got it bad already doing chest/shoulders the same day, and most of my bench sets are with dumbbells, so i'm really working my shoulders.

as far as the arm days go....my current back/arms day is a killer. i do 3 different types of pulldowns (to chest, behind head, close grip), followed by close grip rows, one arm rows, incline curls, preacher curls, tricep extensions (or pulldowns), and wrist curls (underhand and overhand).

Debaser, don't get me wrong, i'm not bragging or anything. i will take your suggestions into consideration. all i'm saying is that my current routine is very high volume, and needsize's 5x5 is actually less volume than i'm currently doing. so please, don't label me as arrogant or only hearing what i want to hear. i'm very new still (not only to the board, but to lifting that's actually making me some gains) and i take everyones opinion into consideration. you guys know a lot more about this than i do.

i won't be starting this routine for probably 3 more weeks, and even then, it's a maybe. have to wait on a doctor's appointment in just over a week to see if i'm going to be physically able to lift for a while or if i'm going to have to bench myself for a few weeks. i wanted to get myself armed with everything about the routine now though, so i could be prepared. i appreciate the help.

btw, i did a test run with 5x5 on the flat bench. looks like i'm going to be starting at 135. not sure what i want to do with squats yet, as my max pyramid is 265 for 5 reps, so i'm thinking maybe 180. i can handle that real good, and that's still 20lbs more than i weigh. we'll see what happens in 9 days when i see the doctor though, as that's the determining factor if i keep lifting or if i take a month off.

once again, thanks from everyone!

 

[Lord_Suston]

just be humble when you start out and the weights will increase easliy over time and you will get great results

 

[dzuljas]

i think it looks good bro

 

[Vicious cycle]

just be humble when you start out and the weights will increase easliy over time and you will get great results

That's just good advice when starting anything, Karma to you!