Help Please

[Cobin]

Monday: Back/Bi
Chin Ups 10-8-6 ( I will start off with Bodyweight and Increase with weights)
Deadlift I could used help with this, what would be better for overall back growth? 5x5, 3 sets of 10-8-6 or 20rep DL?
Bentover row 10-8-6

What else would be good for back? That’s all I could come up with.

Bi’s
Barbell Curl, What would you suggest for strength and size in the bi’s? 5x5, or 10-8-6 or maybe 21’s?
Preacher Curl 10-8-6
Concentration Curl 10-8-6
Maybe One arm dumbbell curls depending on what you guys say about the barbell curls because the other two excercises alone are 9 sets.



Wednesday: Leg/Shoulders
Squats, once again best opinion on this 5x5 , 3 sets or 20rep?
GoodMornings (Never did these) 5x5,20rep or 3 sets?
Seated calve raises 2 sets of 20 reps

Any other good exercises you guys have for legs?

Shoulders
Barbell Military Press 3 sets 10-8-6
Dumbell Front Raise 12-10-8
Uprightrow 10-8-6
Seated Rear Lateral Raise 10-8-6
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidPosterior/DBSeatedRearLateralRaise.html

Should I 5x5 anything for shoulders? Any other exercises you guys know that are good?

Friday: Chest/Tri
Barbell Bench press 5x5, or 10-8-6?
Incline Barbell Bench press 10-8-6
Dumbell Press 10-8-6
Incline Dumbell Press 10-8-6
Dips ( There are two ways to do dips should I do them differently for tri’s and chest? I was gonna do dips for both) 10-8-6

If this is to much volume I can switch it up, one week barbell bench with db incline, next db bench with barbell incline etc Let me know.


Tri’s
Close Grip Bench 10-8-6 or 5x5?
Dips 10-8-6( There are two ways to do dips should I do them differently for tri’s and chest? I was gonna do dips for both)
FrenchCurls 10-8-6 or Tricep Kickbacks


Tri’s may vary week from week sometimes I will do skull crushers or something else how does this sound?


Tried keeping it simple, I apreciate any help anyone has to offer. I don't know if I should 5x5 or do normal sets on alot of my stuff. Please help me. My goals are size/strength in that order. Gonna bulk with this routine and go all out so I want it to be top notch. Thanks

 

[skaman607]

I'd go with 5x5 for DL, squats, and bench, probably higher reps for anything else, and I'd say from personal experience don't do skull crushers they will majorly fu<k up your elbows

 

[jeremys]

i'd do deadlifts before pullups

 

[Cobin]

i'd do deadlifts before pullups

I'll do that, thanks jeremys and skaman.


Anyone else, is my training to much volume or does it look solid? Know of anymore excercises for back, or basically see anything wrong with it? Thanks

 

[jeremys]

i personally wouldnt do 20-rep deads. they're the devil

that looks like enough for back. you got deads, rows, pullups, i cant think of anything else basic at the moment.

i definately think 9 sets is enough for bi's.

goodmorning's are not something to be ballsy with. it's my opinion that you should do lower reps, or you could fuck yourself up

from what i've heard and from what i've experienced, 4-5 higher-rep sets usually work best for calves. for most people, it takes a lot of volume for these babies

also, depending on how you are built and how your form is, it may be dangerous to do dips for chest (where your shoulders are in front of your chest). if your shoulders ever start to hurt, dont do them that way

thats all i can think of right now

 

[jeremys]

thats all i can think of right now

ok, i lied

for legs, squats are definately good but you may want to do some extra quad work such as extensions or front squats(these work great for me) and SLDL, glute/ham raise, and maybe leg curls for hams.

you may not need to do any forearm work with the chins and deads and curls, etc. but you might need direct work. you could just wait and see

 

[Cobin]

ok, i lied

for legs, squats are definately good but you may want to do some extra quad work such as extensions or front squats(these work great for me) and SLDL, glute/ham raise, and maybe leg curls for hams.

you may not need to do any forearm work with the chins and deads and curls, etc. but you might need direct work. you could just wait and see

Thanks, so you think I should 5x5 the squats, add some front squats and assitance works to my quads, that looks good. I put up GM cause I never tried them and didn't want to hear what people said about leg press. But I will probably just do leg press. I am gonna write it out again and repost it. Also I plan on doing forearm and neck work just didn't put it up there, I want a bigger neck for my traps to go into. That reminds me I didn't put anything for traps in there, totally forgot them, should I do them on back day? Also I want to focus on widening my back, will the back routine I got now be enough you think? Keep coming up with questions, what about barbell curls 5x5 or 10-8-6? I would prefer size rather then strength in my bi's, although I do want them alittle stronger.

 

[jeremys]

i've heard good things about weighted dips. i will be doing traps on back day

 

[Cobin]

I will do dips for tri's and take them out of my chest routine and maybe add declines everyonce and awhile, but hows my chest routine look otherwise? I like mixing it up with db's and barbells. I wil ltake away the dips and add flys.

 

[jeremys]

wait! i meant weighted PULLUPS. dont know how i got them mixed up. sorry

as for chest, now that i know correct bench form, chest doesnt do much in the lift, if any. i had great results with just flat heavy DB presses for chest. i've never done incline for anything. im going to try, it just seems like a weird/dangerous angle to me

 

[Cobin]

Feedback on the changes , much apreciated

Monday: Back/Bi
Deadlift I could used help with this, what would be better for overall back growth? 5x5, 3 sets of 10-8-6 or 20rep DL?
Chin Ups 10-8-6 ( I will start off with Bodyweight and Increase with weights)
Bentover row 10-8-6
Shrugs 10-8-6


Bi’s
Barbell Curl 10-8-6
Preacher Curl 10-8-6
Concentration Curl 10-8-6

With two warm up sets of Barbell Curls

Wednesday: Leg/Shoulders
Squats 5x5
Seated calve raises 3 sets, 10-8-6
Leg Press 10-8-6
Front Squat 10-8
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/BBFrontSquat.html
Straight-legged deadlift 10-8-6
Lying leg curls 10-8-6

This looks like a lot, but I separated everything top is quad work, bottom is hams and I got calves in there too. Didn’t add leg extensions I wanna try the front squats first.


Shoulders
Barbell Military Press 3 sets 10-8-6
Dumbell Front Raise 12-10-8
Uprightrow 10-8-6
Seated Rear Lateral Raise 10-8-6
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidPosterior/DBSeatedRearLateralRaise.html


Friday: Chest/Tri
Barbell Bench press 5x5
Incline Barbell Bench press 10-8-6
Dumbell Press 10-8-6
Incline Dumbell Press 10-8-6
Flys 10-8-6


Tri’s
Close Grip Bench 5x5
Dips 10-8-6
FrenchCurls 10-8-6
Tricep Kickback 12-8


Thanks Jeremys, I am gonna keep the barbell bench in there anyway I want to build some strength aswell, mostly going for size here though, whatever strength gains I make will be welcome though. I'd like to have both but I know I can't focus on both at any given time so I am going for size.

 

[Cobin]

wait! i meant weighted PULLUPS. dont know how i got them mixed up. sorry

as for chest, now that i know correct bench form, chest doesnt do much in the lift, if any. i had great results with just flat heavy DB presses for chest. i've never done incline for anything. im going to try, it just seems like a weird/dangerous angle to me

So I should do chins with bodyweight only perhaps?I can't find the chain to wrap around my body at my gym anyway, I doubt anyone even uses such a thing at the gym I goto anyway.

 

[jeremys]

yes, keep BB bench in if you want to gain on those

you can try 20 rep deads if you want, but i wont do them again unless i get paid eleventy billion dollars

might wanna try front squats right after regular squats and calves at the end. why are you going to do leg presses? just wondering. oh, you can do calve raises on the leg press. that works good.

a little warning. dont do 'straight' legged deads(knees locked). that could hurt. instead do 'stiff' legged deads, almost vertical, but dont lock knees. i wish i would've learned this earlier. when you do deads, dont get your ass too high.

these are just my tips, we'll see what the other guys got to say

 

[Cobin]

yes, keep BB bench in if you want to gain on those

you can try 20 rep deads if you want, but i wont do them again unless i get paid eleventy billion dollars

might wanna try front squats right after regular squats and calves at the end. why are you going to do leg presses? just wondering. oh, you can do calve raises on the leg press. that works good.

a little warning. dont do 'straight' legged deads(knees locked). that could hurt. instead do 'stiff' legged deads, almost vertical, but dont lock knees. i wish i would've learned this earlier. when you do deads, dont get your ass too high.

these are just my tips, we'll see what the other guys got to say

I think I will do 5x5 this time and see how it goes, next switch up I will go for 20 rep deads, i've done them a few times and I know I can feel them after. I know about the straight/stiff legged thing thanks for your checking though. I still have a hard time with form on them. I only added leg presses for another quad exercise 3 quad exercises 3 hammie exercises. Suggest anything else , maybe take them out and add another set to front squats? Also how do the reps look, to high ? maybe do 8-6-4?

 

[jeremys]

for shoulders and squats, i suggest doing 5x5 for the main(compound) movement. then 10-8-6 or 8-6-4 for assistance. the reps are up to you. some days for me are weird, so i change the assistance work higher or lower, just depending on how i feel.

 

[Cobin]

for shoulders and squats, i suggest doing 5x5 for the main(compound) movement. then 10-8-6 or 8-6-4 for assistance. the reps are up to you. some days for me are weird, so i change the assistance work higher or lower, just depending on how i feel.

Ok thanks, I will do overhead press 5x5 shoulders then , I like the way the routine shaped up I think it will work well. How hard is it to hold the barbell on front squats?

Monday: Back/Bi
Deadlift 5x5
Chin Ups 10-8-6 ( I will start off with Bodyweight and Increase with weights)
Bentover row 10-8-6
Shrugs 10-8-6


Bi’s
Barbell Curl 10-8-6
Preacher Curl 10-8-6
Concentration Curl 10-8-6



Wednesday: Leg/Shoulders
Squats 5x5
Front Squat 8-6-4
Straight-legged deadlift 10-8-6
Lying leg curls 10-8-6
Seated calve raises 3 sets, 10-8-6


Shoulders
Barbell Military Press 5x5
Dumbell Front Raise 12-10-8
Uprightrow 10-8-6
Seated Rear Lateral Raise 10-8-6


Friday: Chest/Tri
Barbell Bench press 5x5
Incline Barbell Bench press 10-8-6
Dumbell Press 10-8-6
Incline Dumbell Press 10-8-6
Flys 10-8-6


Tri’s
Close Grip Bench 5x5
Dips 10-8-6
FrenchCurls 10-8-6
Tricep Kickback 12-8

Two warmup sets of each muscle before worksets of 15 reps.

 

[Cobin]

I can't give you any karma right now, but when it reloads I will send some your way. Thanks for your help jeremys.

 

[jeremys]

no problem man. i'm learning with you as we share ideas.

as for the front squats, it was hard to hold the bar, but i had elbows down to my hips, i dont think i was holding the bar right, but it worked. i think that gave me a bad elbow for a while though. hold it like everybody else does

 

[Cobin]

no problem man. i'm learning with you as we share ideas.

as for the front squats, it was hard to hold the bar, but i had elbows down to my hips, i dont think i was holding the bar right, but it worked. i think that gave me a bad elbow for a while though. hold it like everybody else does

Sounds good, I will pratice the rest of this week with form and start soon, still getting my diet in order. Apreciate the help, look forward to doing the routine now.

 

[skaman607]

yeah maybe on the next switch, or every now and then you could do some breathing squats, and I just go touch and go with most of my workouts.

 

[skaman607]

I would also go with 5x5 for the bent over row, for the SLDL's make sure your hammies are nice and loose because that exercise will give them a stretch

 

[Cobin]

That chest excercise I got is gonna be way to much volume, I am gonna switch it up week from week, Also I can't get the hang of stiff legged deadlifts my legs keep locking when I go up. And I have a hard tiem holding the bar with front squats so I am gonna see how that goes.

 

[jeremys]

you'll get used to the form.

 

[Cobin]

you'll get used to the form.

Thanks, prob take a good week or two but I think if I work at it , it will come along.

 

[jeremys]

it will be worth it. front squats work great for quads, at least for me anyways

 

[Cobin]

I feel them in the same place I do normal squats though. But today was a good day for squats felt good.

 

[jeremys]

hmm...maybe you squat the right way. lol (hams and glutes)

when i used my quads to squat, there was lots of growth

 

[Cobin]

hmm...maybe you squat the right way. lol (hams and glutes)

when i used my quads to squat, there was lots of growth

Don't know how to turn off a muscle from being worked to just used quads, be kind of cool if I did though.

 

[jeremys]

i cant even begin to explain it. have you ever regularly done squats before? maybe you're sore all over just due to starting out...

most people squat with their quads anyways. it takes a while to learn PL form

 

[Cobin]

just started to really get into them, I never really did them then I started on a smith machine now I am doing just freeweights. I like freeweights better.

 

[jeremys]

the only thing a smith machine is good for is for hanging towels on

 

[Cobin]

the only thing a smith machine is good for is for hanging towels on

I know that now, I goto a preppy gym and no one ever deadlifts or squats. Its a rare occasion. Only two squat racks and one power rack and over 100 machines. So thats one of the reasons why I never even thought of doing them before. But I enjoy them now.

 

[skaman607]

wow, I guess I'm lucky, I work out at home, so I have never seen a smith machine in person

 

[jeremys]

they are the devil. they're also confusing as hell, so i've never successfully 'unracked' the bar and done even 1 rep in one

 

[Cobin]

they are the devil. they're also confusing as hell, so i've never successfully 'unracked' the bar and done even 1 rep in one

They are, so many times have I messed up and screwed up sets.

 

[JDarty6173]

Cobin... If you're wanting to do a 5x5 routine.. Here is one that Needsize had posted before that I saved... I would personally go with it if I were you if doing a 5x5... Hopefully you will find this useful...


Monday: Chest/Calves
Tuesday: Rest
Wednesday: Back/Shoulders
Thursday: Rest
Friday: Quads/Hmastrings/Calves
Saturday: Biceps/Tricepss/forarms
Sunday: Rest

Do some cardio on your rest day, maybe 30 to 45 minutes.


Monday
flat bench press 5x5 reps
incline dumbell press 2x8-10 reps
incline dumbell flyes 2x8-10 reps
standing calve raises 5x15 reps

Wednesday
Military press 5x5 reps
deadlifts 5x5 reps
side laterals 3x8-10 reps
chins/pulldowns 2-3x8-10 reps
shrugs 2x8-10 reps
Barbell rows 2x8-10 reps
bent over laterals 2x8-10 reps

Tuesday, Thursday, and Sunday are rest days

Friday
squats 5x5 reps
hack squats(or leg press) 2x8-10 reps
leg extensions 2x8-10 reps
lying hamstring curls 3x8-10 reps
seated calve raises 5x15 reps

Saturday
1) close grip bench 5x5 reps
standing barbell curls 5x5 reps

2) Dips 2x8-10 reps
incline dumbell curls 2x8-10 reps

3) skull crushers 2x8-10 reps
preacher curls 2x8-10 reps
(These are all supersetted, ie close grip with standing barbell)

 

[skaman607]

just watch that you don't use too much weight with the skull crushers, because they will mess up your elbows

 

[StRoNg_WoN]

I know this is irrelevant, but I just want to say that it brings a smile to my face to see you young lads goin' at it in the gym etc...

Keep it up guys!

 

[jeremys]

lifting is the best thing i could ever do for myself. i couldnt imagine being like everybody else around me

 

[skaman607]

yeah my parents would rather me do homework than lift, but I try

 

[Cobin]

Cobin... If you're wanting to do a 5x5 routine.. Here is one that Needsize had posted before that I saved... I would personally go with it if I were you if doing a 5x5... Hopefully you will find this useful...


Monday: Chest/Calves
Tuesday: Rest
Wednesday: Back/Shoulders
Thursday: Rest
Friday: Quads/Hmastrings/Calves
Saturday: Biceps/Tricepss/forarms
Sunday: Rest

Do some cardio on your rest day, maybe 30 to 45 minutes.


Monday
flat bench press 5x5 reps
incline dumbell press 2x8-10 reps
incline dumbell flyes 2x8-10 reps
standing calve raises 5x15 reps

Wednesday
Military press 5x5 reps
deadlifts 5x5 reps
side laterals 3x8-10 reps
chins/pulldowns 2-3x8-10 reps
shrugs 2x8-10 reps
Barbell rows 2x8-10 reps
bent over laterals 2x8-10 reps

Tuesday, Thursday, and Sunday are rest days

Friday
squats 5x5 reps
hack squats(or leg press) 2x8-10 reps
leg extensions 2x8-10 reps
lying hamstring curls 3x8-10 reps
seated calve raises 5x15 reps

Saturday
1) close grip bench 5x5 reps
standing barbell curls 5x5 reps

2) Dips 2x8-10 reps
incline dumbell curls 2x8-10 reps

3) skull crushers 2x8-10 reps
preacher curls 2x8-10 reps
(These are all supersetted, ie close grip with standing barbell)

That looks good, I am looking for mostly size and some strength how do you think this will work for that? Also could I change the skull crushers to french curls or something else. I have a hard time doing them.

I like the idea of a 4 day week routine, I was gonna bulk though do you think the cardio would harm my gains? I'd personally like to do it to keep fat gain less but I do expect some fat.

 

[jeremys]

i've heard good things about the 5x5 also. as soon as i can do deadlifts and stuff again(probably another 2 weeks) thats what i will do

 

[JDarty6173]

Cobin... You definitly can make substitutions like you mentioned.. As far as the Cardio part, yeah I would drop it while bulking, I just pasted the info exactly the was Needsize had posted it before... This program is supposed to work very well for both srtength and size... I haven't personally tried it since I train Westside, but if at some point I feel I need a break from strict Westside I will incorporate the 5x5 Principals...

 

[Cobin]

Ok , thanks.

One more question, what about normal flyes and everything else? I noticed you work uper chest mostly on chest day besides flat bench, maybe I could sub in normal flyes every other week or something?

 

[Scaggs]

Skull crushers are awsome for building the bulk of your tris but you do have to be careful with them. I mest up my left elbow. I cost me a 3 month layoff of tris and bench. Weight just kept increasing to the point my joint couldn't take. A better idea would be to do skull crushers as a finishing move or after your tris are fatigued. Half your normal working weight will feel like a ton and your joints will be able to handle the load.

as far as your regimen looks, the only thing i'm concerned about is you overtraining. keep an eyball out on how you recover. if you don't progress, get sick, or lose motivation, something is wrong. just be sure you're not overtraining. thats the biggest mistake new trainees will make, "more is better". Dont forget, you don't necessarily need as much volume as a 3 year trainee to get the same mucle growth right now. volume will come as you grow. see how it goes and you might find you need less sets or even drop some exercises and alternate them week to week. you're on your way cobin. good luck

Scaggs

 

[Cobin]

Skull crushers are awsome for building the bulk of your tris but you do have to be careful with them. I mest up my left elbow. I cost me a 3 month layoff of tris and bench. Weight just kept increasing to the point my joint couldn't take. A better idea would be to do skull crushers as a finishing move or after your tris are fatigued. Half your normal working weight will feel like a ton and your joints will be able to handle the load.

as far as your regimen looks, the only thing i'm concerned about is you overtraining. keep an eyball out on how you recover. if you don't progress, get sick, or lose motivation, something is wrong. just be sure you're not overtraining. thats the biggest mistake new trainees will make, "more is better". Dont forget, you don't necessarily need as much volume as a 3 year trainee to get the same mucle growth right now. volume will come as you grow. see how it goes and you might find you need less sets or even drop some exercises and alternate them week to week. you're on your way cobin. good luck

Scaggs

I apreciate that scaggs, I to am worried about overtraining alittle bit, mostly on the chest workout. I'll see how it goes. Thanks

 

[JDarty6173]

I see no reason why you couldn't sub in flat work instead of incline.. As far as overtraining on this programm well I have followed routines in the past before I started WSB with even greater volume and never crossed the line to overtraining... But for instance on Chest you are only doing a total of 9 sets.. Not much chance of overtraing there IMO...... But just listen to your body, and if you cross that line you can easily back off on volume...

 

[Cobin]

I see no reason why you couldn't sub in flat work instead of incline.. As far as overtraining on this programm well I have followed routines in the past before I started WSB with even greater volume and never crossed the line to overtraining... But for instance on Chest you are only doing a total of 9 sets.. Not much chance of overtraing there IMO...... But just listen to your body, and if you cross that line you can easily back off on volume...

Was talking about my first routine, which I am gonna save because I wanna give 5x5 a try.

 

[jeremys]

this might be a little off topic, but i didnt feel like starting another thread. sorry

anyways, how important is an actual program compared to going in and just doing your split, blasting each bodypart by feel?

 

[jeremys]

bump??

 

[Scaggs]

I'd rather go with a designed program than just going in and doing whatever, there is no real consistancy and it would be hardwer to track your progress and plan for the next attack.
IMO

Scaggs