HCG use on Cycle Controversy

[Texas Monster]

So I been reading around and there seems to be very conflicting Ideas on HCG use during Cycle.

Some say to run 500iu a week during heavy cycles. Others say that running 500iu a week will prevent you from being able to run an hcg blast at the end.. Others say to run HCGenerate during then HCG right before PCT.

What is the reasoning behind this. Some studies show that small doses of hcg of 250 iu are not even near high enough to produce desensitization of LH receptors in the gonads. Tests have been done to show that even a male taking a shot of 6000 iu still did not produce LH desensitization.

And that is what we are trying to avoid correct? The desensitization of LH receptors in the Testes? So If small doses of 250 iu x 2 a week or spaced every 4 days apart wont desensitize LH receptors how come people have the notion to not run HCG on cycle or if you run it on cycle you will not be able to do a blast at the end of say 1000 iu ed or 2000 iu eod and have it not be effective to restore ITT levels even though at small doses as such ITT levels can still be sustained.

Just Wondering because I been doing my research going into my next cycle and focusing on the recovery portion this time.

 

[25homes]

Id run 500iu twice week during cycle blast first two Weeks of pct and run post cycle hcgenerate unleashed and forma..maybe low dose clomid

 

[Texas Monster]

That is the protocol I see a lot but how long can you run at 500-1000 iu a week for? There seems to be some debate on this topic as well.

 

[Jamesm11]

I've seen people run it the entire cycle. Some run last 4 weeks. Some don't use it. It's one of those things that there's so much different schools of thought on.

All I know is don't run it during PCT.

 

[stevesmi]

you essentially want to start running hcg or hcgenerate when your nuts start shrinking. yes you are right its not gonna keep your LH high during cycle. HOWEVER the point is you don't want to go into pct with raisin nuts.. it makes a huge difference in recovery to go into pct with PLUMP nuts. trust me on this through plenty of experience its true.

so lets say you run a 12 week cycle on a long ester. around week 4 or 5 is when your nuts will start to shrink.. you want to start it then. keep them plump the whole way.. i tell guys no need to run from week 1 and to save their money, although it can't hurt.. but i want to save guys money.

your best bet to answer your own question is EXPERIENCE of trying it yourself and also the experience of other guys who respond in this thread. so i can tell you since i started running hcgenerate once my nuts started shrinking and then used hcg + hmg to kickstart pct. that my recovery has been so much faster. it really makes a difference.

you also don't want to go into pct with sky high estrogen, progesterone, prolactin and other hormone imbalances. this will delay recovery.. hence you should be covering all bases DURING CYCLE. don't just do the old style nolva/clomid pct and think you are gonna have a smooth recovery.

 

[Texas Monster]

But I have seen guys that want to run it the entire cycle and get flamed on these boards for it and insist that you can not do that. Is there any reasoning behind this?

 

[Texas Monster]

I started to run HCG midway through my deca cycle and I can honestly say that it is the only thing that saved me and allowed me to recover as quick as I did.

 

[dubbzero]

I did a 12 week cycle of prop var and tren started hcg at week 3 500 a week and at week 9 bumped it to 600 a week split into 3 shots.... Halfway through my pct now and man it's been so smooth thanks to hcg. No shrinkage of the nuts. Also my entire cycle I was still shooting huge loads. My last cycle I had raisin nuts and no loads.... So yeah hcg is a total game changer.

 

[joeblow12345]

Me personally I run it at the end of cycle going into pct. This is the way that works best for me. I dont get alot of atrophy on cycle. Even at this moment Im 12 weeks into my cycle and my nuts are still going strong and I havent used any hcg yet. I will start my hcg around week 20 when Im about 2 weeks left on cycle. Find what works for you and stick with it.

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[themondtster]

Read for optimum use shouldnt be used for more than 4 weeks in a row. So could you run mid cycle for 4 weeks to plump up then blast last two weeks before PCT?

 

[ImAbe]

Me personally I run it at the end of cycle going into pct. This is the way that works best for me. I dont get alot of atrophy on cycle. Even at this moment Im 12 weeks into my cycle and my nuts are still going strong and I havent used any hcg yet. I will start my hcg around week 20 when Im about 2 weeks left on cycle. Find what works for you and stick with it.

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Week 20, what ya running?

 

[Texas Monster]

I guess a better question would of been. Is there anything wrong with running HCG the entire cycle? Then running a hcg blast at the end?

 

[joeblow12345]

Week 20, what ya running?

I am running test, anadrol, tren, and deca.

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[ImAbe]

I am running test, anadrol, tren, and deca.

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Can I ask your ratios just out of curiosity, also have you found any issues with running the 2 19's together, tren/deca?

 

[dubbzero]

I guess a better question would of been. Is there anything wrong with running HCG the entire cycle? Then running a hcg blast at the end?

There is nothing wrong with running it the entire cycle. It's trial and error and works different for everyone. Try it out and see how it works for you you're gonna love HCG

 

[joeblow12345]

Can I ask your ratios just out of curiosity, also have you found any issues with running the 2 19's together, tren/deca?

Im not sure what you mean by ratios? Doses? Anyhow, you can most certainly run tren and deca together. However, some have issues with one or the other so its not always advised. I run the deca at a low dose 3-400 mgs. This helps tremendously with joints as tren tends to dry me out. It also adds some nice mass. When I run them together I cut them out one by one. This allows them to clear my system while the test is covering me. Test is always the last to go as its the easiest for me to recover from. This isnt something I reccommed a begginer try. I have experience with tren and deca and know how my body responds to them.

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[ImAbe]

Im not sure what you mean by ratios? Doses? Anyhow, you can most certainly run tren and deca together. However, some have issues with one or the other so its not always advised. I run the deca at a low dose 3-400 mgs. This helps tremendously with joints as tren tends to dry me out. It also adds some nice mass. When I run them together I cut them out one by one. This allows them to clear my system while the test is covering me. Test is always the last to go as its the easiest for me to recover from. This isnt something I reccommed a begginer try. I have experience with tren and deca and know how my body responds to them.

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Hey Joe, tried to pm you but your inbox is full, a lot of the mods have chewed a lot guys that wanted to run deca and tren, I'm currently on my 11th week of tren e/mast e/test e, 600mg per week plus 50mg test p ed, I have deca and wanted to add a while back, probably going to run 20 weeks, in your opinion, if I wanted to add the deca what precautions should I have and how would you incorporate it into my current cycle, any feedback is greatly appreciated no attempt at high jack here, sorry bros

 

[ImAbe]

So I been reading around and there seems to be very conflicting Ideas on HCG use during Cycle.

Some say to run 500iu a week during heavy cycles. Others say that running 500iu a week will prevent you from being able to run an hcg blast at the end.. Others say to run HCGenerate during then HCG right before PCT.

What is the reasoning behind this. Some studies show that small doses of hcg of 250 iu are not even near high enough to produce desensitization of LH receptors in the gonads. Tests have been done to show that even a male taking a shot of 6000 iu still did not produce LH desensitization.

And that is what we are trying to avoid correct? The desensitization of LH receptors in the Testes? So If small doses of 250 iu x 2 a week or spaced every 4 days apart wont desensitize LH receptors how come people have the notion to not run HCG on cycle or if you run it on cycle you will not be able to do a blast at the end of say 1000 iu ed or 2000 iu eod and have it not be effective to restore ITT levels even though at small doses as such ITT levels can still be sustained.

Just Wondering because I been doing my research going into my next cycle and focusing on the recovery portion this time.

This is an awesome question bro, you sure have done your research, I would have pinned hcg the whole time if I had it but now at 11 weeks with nut shrinkage just showing itself and my hcg coming tomorrow I'm kind of glad I didn't waste the money on 11 unnecessary weeks of hcg, def need it now though, my 7 year olds nuts are bigger than mine right now lol

 

[Texas Monster]

Hey Joe, tried to pm you but your inbox is full, a lot of the mods have chewed a lot guys that wanted to run deca and tren, I'm currently on my 11th week of tren e/mast e/test e, 600mg per week plus 50mg test p ed, I have deca and wanted to add a while back, probably going to run 20 weeks, in your opinion, if I wanted to add the deca what precautions should I have and how would you incorporate it into my current cycle, any feedback is greatly appreciated no attempt at high jack here, sorry bros

I would hold off on the deca for another cycle. For me it took deca 7 weeks before I felt the "kick" and pump. Since you are allready in week 11 it wouldnt be till week 18 till you felt the effects and if you took it to week 21 well then your pct would be starting around week 27. That would be a little bit too long imo.

And you can run 19 nors together but you better be ready for some serious shut down and also be running caber with it.

I have run them together and it was in the mid of my cycle. I then let them clear while I rode it out with just some test and var. The only thing I didnt like is that I could definately tell I was starting to lose the "big" look when I started to come off on just test and var. I agree that the key is to recover from that when you still are running test then when you come off test it is a little bit easier. It is like coming down the stepping stairs of awesomeness and not just jumping off the top floor. Idk if that made anysense but *!@#$ it

 

[joeblow12345]

Hey Joe, tried to pm you but your inbox is full, a lot of the mods have chewed a lot guys that wanted to run deca and tren, I'm currently on my 11th week of tren e/mast e/test e, 600mg per week plus 50mg test p ed, I have deca and wanted to add a while back, probably going to run 20 weeks, in your opinion, if I wanted to add the deca what precautions should I have and how would you incorporate it into my current cycle, any feedback is greatly appreciated no attempt at high jack here, sorry bros

I cleared my inbox.

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[Texas Monster]

Read for optimum use shouldnt be used for more than 4 weeks in a row. So could you run mid cycle for 4 weeks to plump up then blast last two weeks before PCT?

Where did you read this?

 

[Zyglamail]

Ive always wondered where the whole desensitization shit came from so I spent hours searching the studies. All I could find is a couple references to high dose studies done over something like a 6 month period of time that caused desensitization. However, in this game everyone reads between the lines, often very inaccurately, and mis-regurgitates the inaccuracies they have already heard and a new myth is born.

I can tell you low dose (<500IU) of HCG a couple times a week will not cause desensitization.

What it will do....

cost money
keep balls plump
make post cycle recovery faster because they havent been shut down for weeks or months.

At the end of the day how you chose to use it is up to you and your wallet. If you have the money and want to expedite recovery then run it your whole cyckle at say 259IU 2x a week. If money is a concern and you dont mind raisins hanging between your legs dont start running it till the end of the cycle.

As for those who show desensitization after 4 weeks or on the low doses we are referring to, prove it. Show me the studies.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Basic battle plan -- if nuts shrink -- do a shot of HCG . But you shouldn't be on so long or use dosages so high that you need to do that for weeks on end. I prefer using HCG at the end of a cycle to give the PCT a kickstart. Remember, HCG DOES NOT cure anything or raise HPTA. It just gets the T production going for a few days.

 

[Goldenrod12]

Run 250 iu's twice a week

 

[stevesmi]

Basic battle plan -- if nuts shrink -- do a shot of HCG . But you shouldn't be on so long or use dosages so high that you need to do that for weeks on end. I prefer using HCG at the end of a cycle to give the PCT a kickstart. Remember, HCG DOES NOT cure anything or raise HPTA. It just gets the T production going for a few days.

thank you! and this is exactly how I run it and advise guys to run it.

hcgenerate during, hcg as a kickstart. then PCT. in that order.

 

[Jimmyinkedup]

Hcg 250ius - 2x/week n cycle up to pct . Ai up to pct. Serm based pct (clomid/nolva).
No hcg in pct. No ai in pct. No supplement replacing a more effective pharmaceutical compound.All anecdotal bs when there is proven published peer reviewed studies by the leading specialist in the world (Dr Michael Scally) that thats the most effective protocol to be found. All this i recover great blah blah blah. People recover great that never do pct ..till they dont. Why not do what is proven to be the most effective by real case studies and patients, by the brightest mind that can be found on this topic???

 

[Texas Monster]

Hcg 250ius - 2x/week n cycle up to pct . Ai up to pct. Serm based pct (clomid/nolva).
No hcg in pct. No ai in pct. No supplement replacing a more effective pharmaceutical compound.All anecdotal bs when there is proven published peer reviewed studies by the leading specialist in the world (Dr Michael Scally) that thats the most effective protocol to be found. All this i recover great blah blah blah. People recover great that never do pct ..till they dont. Why not do what is proven to be the most effective by real case studies and patients, by the brightest mind that can be found on this topic???

So how long is it ok to run hcg for on cycle?
Some say in 4 week increments then 4 weeks off. What does Dr Scally say about this?
Is it ok to run Hcg the whole cycle? Does this cause desensitization?

 

[Jimmyinkedup]

So how long is it ok to run hcg for on cycle?
Some say in 4 week increments then 4 weeks off. What does Dr Scally say about this?
Is it ok to run Hcg the whole cycle? Does this cause desensitization?

Not if you run it at total of 500iu's /week in 2 - 250iu shots it doesnt. I run it starting 2 weeks in to a long ester cycle up to pct.

 

[Texas Monster]

Not if you run it at total of 500iu's /week in 2 - 250iu shots it doesnt. I run it starting 2 weeks in to a long ester cycle up to pct.

How long you running your cycle for?

Then would it be ok to run a little bit higher dosage as a blast right before pct like 500ius a day?

So you would be on 500ius a week for the cycle then 15-21 days out from the start of your pct start doing 500ius a day or 1000ius eod for 10-15 days. Then waiting 5-6 days to let the hcg clear then start your pct?

Would there be anything wrong with that? It just seems like you would be getting the best of both pct protocols. Keep em working on cycle then start pumping em back up at the end of cycle.

 

[Jimmyinkedup]

How long you running your cycle for?

Then would it be ok to run a little bit higher dosage as a blast right before pct like 500ius a day?

So you would be on 500ius a week for the cycle then 15-21 days out from the start of your pct start doing 500ius a day or 1000ius eod for 10-15 days. Then waiting 5-6 days to let the hcg clear then start your pct?

Would there be anything wrong with that? It just seems like you would be getting the best of both pct protocols. Keep em working on cycle then start pumping em back up at the end of cycle.

Im sure you could try it that way but I look at it like this. If im artfically keeping them functioning then why do i have to over use at end of cycle? Its not like thats gonna carry over. Keep them working ......then hit with serms. Im sure there are several ways you could go. Ive run cycles anywhere from 6week blast cycle to 16 weeks. Check your pm.

 

[Zyglamail]

So how long is it ok to run hcg for on cycle?
Some say in 4 week increments then 4 weeks off. What does Dr Scally say about this?
Is it ok to run Hcg the whole cycle? Does this cause desensitization?

Its fine to run the whole cycle. Many HRT clinics recommend it as part of their TRT so its basically run indefinitely. Low dose sporadic use (ie 2x week) doesnt cause any issues.

 

[joeblow12345]

Its fine to run the whole cycle. Many HRT clinics recommend it as part of their TRT so its basically run indefinitely. Low dose sporadic use (ie 2x week) doesnt cause any issues.

I feel that is highly uneccessary but its up to you.

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[Zyglamail]

So how long is it ok to run hcg for on cycle?
Some say in 4 week increments then 4 weeks off. What does Dr Scally say about this?
Is it ok to run Hcg the whole cycle? Does this cause desensitization?

Its fine to run the whole cycle. Many HRT clinics recommend it as part of their TRT so its basically run indefinitely. Low dose sporadic use (ie 2x week) doesnt cause any issues.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Its fine to run the whole cycle. Many HRT clinics recommend it as part of their TRT so its basically run indefinitely. Low dose sporadic use (ie 2x week) doesnt cause any issues.

I wouldn't use HRT clinics are the barometer of proper protocol. So many of them are really just selling a service. I've had more than a few people come to me for help after some HRT clinic overprescibed too much shit.

 

[Zyglamail]

I wouldn't use HRT clinics are the barometer of proper protocol. So many of them are really just selling a service. I've had more than a few people come to me for help after some HRT clinic overprescibed too much shit.

overpriced has nothing to do with protocol.

People have been spewing desensitization nonsense on the forums for a long time and my point if doses are kept small (which is all thats needed) there isnt a desensitization issue.

 

[SpyWizard]

But I have seen guys that want to run it the entire cycle and get flamed on these boards for it and insist that you can not do that. Is there any reasoning behind this?

not this board.. so i'm not sure what is in the minds of others, but they cannot and do not put forth a convincing argument..

I use during.. and i've not used at all, the recovery without hcg can be very long and ineffective..

 

[Nelson Montana]

overpriced has nothing to do with protocol.

People have been spewing desensitization nonsense on the forums for a long time and my point if doses are kept small (which is all thats needed) there isnt a desensitization issue.

I didn't say anything about overpriced. I said over PRESCRIBED. Personally, I find 250 i/u.'s of HCG is like taking a half an aspirin for a headache. It's just not enough. I think 1000 i.u's bring the balls back and that's that. But if you;re just going to stay on cycle and lose them again, what's the point? This is all speculative -- on everyone;s part. People just have to go with what makes more sense to them. There's no tried and true way.

 

[stevesmi]

surprised no one talks about HMG more often.. actually I'm not. guys are too unwilling to try new things. HMG has been amazing to me when i've stacked it with hcg and hcgenerate. my recovery times are 66% faster this way

 

[Texas Monster]

surprised no one talks about HMG more often.. actually I'm not. guys are too unwilling to try new things. HMG has been amazing to me when i've stacked it with hcg and hcgenerate. my recovery times are 66% faster this way

I might also give this a try too.

What are the dosages like for hmg

 

[Jimmyinkedup]

I didn't say anything about overpriced. I said over PRESCRIBED. Personally, I find 250 i/u.'s of HCG is like taking a half an aspirin for a headache. It's just not enough. I think 1000 i.u's bring the balls back and that's that. But if you;re just going to stay on cycle and lose them again, what's the point? This is all speculative -- on everyone;s part. People just have to go with what makes more sense to them. There's no tried and true way.

But there are tried and true ways.
Dr Scally has peer reviewed published studies.
Hundreds of case studies.
He specializes in treating steroid induced andropause.
He has a protocol that is proven to work. Im sure there are occasional non responders of course ...hell some people will never recover hpta function , but all in all I would say his methods are tried and true ..more so than any others you will ever find.
Definitely more so than any unconventional protocols i see posted here.
At any rate i agree the individual must decide for themselves..

 

[Zyglamail]

surprised no one talks about HMG more often.. actually I'm not. guys are too unwilling to try new things. HMG has been amazing to me when i've stacked it with hcg and hcgenerate. my recovery times are 66% faster this way

HMG is likely superior. I think its just not discussed as much is because its not as easy to come by.

 

[Irishluck531]

Hey guys I'm trying to find a legit place to order the hcg.. Anybody know of a good place to order real stuff? Kinda hard to find. I'm planning to start my cycle on the first of jan. So it would really help me out if any of u know a legit place thanks!

 

[Essie]

Hey guys I'm trying to find a legit place to order the hcg.. Anybody know of a good place to order real stuff? Kinda hard to find. I'm planning to start my cycle on the first of jan. So it would really help me out if any of u know a legit place thanks!

Honestly? Bro .. 2 things ... 1. Read the rules - no source talk. 2. Just google hcg for sale or some shit like that ... you'll find plenty. Alternatively, for PCT purposes run HCGenerate. You can run HCGenerate es for on cycle support. Last 2 mentioned products available at needtobuildmuscle.com.

 

[Essie]

Hey guys I'm trying to find a legit place to order the hcg.. Anybody know of a good place to order real stuff? Kinda hard to find. I'm planning to start my cycle on the first of jan. So it would really help me out if any of u know a legit place thanks!

Honestly? Bro .. 2 things ... 1. Read the rules - no source talk. 2. Just google hcg for sale or some shit like that ... you'll find plenty. Alternatively, for PCT purposes run HCGenerate. You can run HCGenerate es for on cycle support. Last 2 mentioned products available at needtobuildmuscle.com.

 

[RobertD1885]

Its fine to run the whole cycle. Many HRT clinics recommend it as part of their TRT so its basically run indefinitely. Low dose sporadic use (ie 2x week) doesnt cause any issues.

I agree with this. 250IU HCG 2x/week is standard protocol from many, probably most, HRT doctors. Many thousands of men have run it for years. I have spent enough time on HRT forums, that I would know if desensitization was a significant issue. Based upon the lack of desensitization reports, I can reasonably conclude that desensitization at that dose is not a significant problem.