Havoc is most similar to what steroid?

[bsdgeek]

If I want a Cheeseburger, I order a Cheeseburger,
... not a Pro-Cheeseburger.

It's just my choice of ammo. I've run original Superdrol, PP...All good shit. I just prefer old fashioned AAS.

I'll have to agree with the old man on this one. Pro-hormones are worse on you than the real shit, and typically produce more bad sides. I'll stick with the real deal, I have a guy whose been trying to give me some M1T, and some other pro-hormone. He says it works, but it makes him feel like shit. Now, I don't know about you, but I like to feel good most of the time.... hell... call me crazy

 

[Just Add Muscle]

I did get good comp change. You've seen my thread and made multiple comments. cyclo-tren is a good product, but cyclo-tren does not produce the strength gains. For me anyways. I just didn't see it.

Next time you run it do it on Caloric surplus and train heavy short work outs with no cardio at all and you will see the strength skyrocket. When you diet and do cardio you wont get same strength gains as some one on a bulking diet doing no cardio.

 

[Just Add Muscle]

Hah!! we have a discussion...I saw another product ICON? Also I was thinking of stacking Cyclotren with Either M drol or Icon or havoc and Dermacrine..3 way stack Possibly a little big for a first cycle. My goal is just pure strength that is KEPT!! I don't need to shoot a needle and lift 400 lbs for 10 minutes or I'd be on PCP..long term gains whats your opinion JAM?

So far we have very little feedback on Icon bro. I am not sure if it will give the bang for the buck that monsterdrol or Havoc or Cyclotren will give you. The good part about it is that you can stack it with Cyclotren/Monsterdrol and be in the safe zone because you would only be using one methylated compound.

 

[rediculus]

Sooo

could you
stack dermacrine +Cyclotren + Monsterdrol and or icon?

I figured those and a weight gainingg shake I should be able to reduce BF% and gain strength or at least gain strength and maintain?
Nutrition Facts:
Serving Size (g) 168
Servings Per 24
Calories 630
Fat Calories 40
Total Fat (g) 4
Sat. Fat (g) 2.5
Cholesterol (mg) 75
Sodium (mg) 350
Potassium (mg) 500
Total Carbs (g) 97
Dietary Fiber (g) 1.5
Sugars (g) 10
Proteins (g) 52

any better ideas?

 

[dabuffguy]

Next time you run it do it on Caloric surplus and train heavy short work outs with no cardio at all and you will see the strength skyrocket. When you diet and do cardio you wont get same strength gains as some one on a bulking diet doing no cardio.

Yes, I remember mentioning something about that in my thread. I was at maintenance or just below maintenance calories and still got stronger. I'm sure strength would have been better.

 

[Just Add Muscle]

I'll have to agree with the old man on this one. Pro-hormones are worse on you than the real shit, and typically produce more bad sides. I'll stick with the real deal, I have a guy whose been trying to give me some M1T, and some other pro-hormone. He says it works, but it makes him feel like shit. Now, I don't know about you, but I like to feel good most of the time.... hell... call me crazy

I agree with him also,true prohormones that require conversion by the liver enzymes for the most part are garbage. How ever the new products are not prohormones. There is a lot of confusion in this matter but a lot of bros are becoming educated and seeing the light. I myself used to think the same way as most bros do until they basically tied me down and forced me to take the stuff before I believed.

 

[needtogetaas]

ya

 

[superclock]

Next time you run it do it on Caloric surplus and train heavy short work outs with no cardio at all and you will see the strength skyrocket. When you diet and do cardio you wont get same strength gains as some one on a bulking diet doing no cardio.

This is exactly what I have been doing and I agree completely. Short, heavy lifting with no cardio at all, which suits me just fine. BUT, I am also 37 and have never done a cycle of anything until now. Could be the 35+ thing as it seems other "older" guys also have dramatic results. My strength is way up and I have so far gone from 204lbs to 216lbs with a drop of 2% bf. I am on week four of a six week Havoc/Cyclotren run plus I added 5 pumps Dermacrine ED this week. I am really digging the mix and I feel confident that I will use Cyclotren in addition to any other methylated products in the future (like Monsterdrol!)

 

[miplank]

better stock up on cyclotren while you still can then. Soon to be gone