H S T, Say What? Thread

[BOOEY]

Am I the only one that doesn't like HST? It seems the new thing on the board is to recommend this routine .. honestly, I just don't see it. Not a call out, if it works for you, power to you - I just don't get what all the hoopla is about

 

[drbones2]

Its wierd that half the board here is always pro HST half is anti HST.

I don't personally use it, but the science behind it makes perfect sense.

I've never tried it... but I don't think you should knock it til you've tried it.

 

[cmdubs]

have you tried it?

 

[TheOak84]

if u tried it, u may not like how its preformed, but if u sitck with it, youll like the results.

if u ahvent tried it, its like judging a movie by only watching the previews.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

Its wierd that half the board here is always pro HST half is anti HST.

I don't personally use it, but the science behind it makes perfect sense.

I've never tried it... but I don't think you should knock it til you've tried it.

i agree..theres more than one way to skin a cat..even high volume when used for a short period of time will yield results..

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Anything will yield results. It's a matter of what's optimal and what's not.

 

[TRUEsoldier]

I'll try anything once...thats my motto, I am playing with it right now, who knows, I might fall in love with it....dont really see it happening, cuz I love working with volume and completely destroying once muscle at a time. But I'll try it out before I talk shit...

hell I tried Kimchee!!!!

Peace

 

[WalkingBeast]

Its wierd that half the board here is always pro HST half is anti HST.

I don't personally use it, but the science behind it makes perfect sense.

I've never tried it... but I don't think you should knock it til you've tried it.

Often times, the science behind something seems to make great sense, but when applied it falls apart. Not saying this applies here.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

Anything will yield results. It's a matter of what's optimal and what's not.

totally not true..in gyms everywere you see that same guys that do the same routine that look the same year in year out..still pushing the same weights reps sets!!!im not saying hst is not optimal but there are plenty of routines that are optimal as well...one should experiment to see what is optimal for them..ive done high volume and low volume and inbetween..and currently slightly more geared towards powerlifting and makign very good gains..take someone like walking beast i really dont think hst would produce dramatic results for him..for him volume is optimal.

 

[BOOEY]

I wasn't knocking it, I was just surprised that almost everyone on the board was advocating its use seemingly out of nowhere. No, I haven't tried it but I have read about it thoroughly, I understand the concepts, and I know that I wouldn't be able to adapt to it. It's really no different from low volume, frequency training, with light-medium-heavy weeks. Nothing new there, been in practice since Arnie's days.

Shouldn't knock it before you try it? I've never driven a Ford Escort, but I know it's not the next car I will buy.

 

[InTraining]

Personally...I like to evaluate a program based on experience(if applicable..I would never do something like 20 sets per muscle group) that is why I will do HST in the near future...

Everyone I have talked to about it on here reports good gains..I wonder why? The only testimonials on the site that are negative usually contain sentences such as " I didn't eat enough on the program" or " I slept 5 hours a night"....Even some of those people claim to have made gains!(small, but still gains)

booey is right when he says this stuff has been around for awhile...HST has used science to try and get the maximum amount of hypertrophy possible...if you don't care about the weights you use(I don't anymore) this program might be for you...

I don't understand how people doing 1x a week for muscle groups can't understand HST..assuming you are going for hypertrophy 1x a week makes no sense to me!!A muscle usually recovers in 36-48 hours after exercise...doesn't need 7 days before working it again...what is the point of doing 15-20 sets per muscle group..if someone could explain that to me I would be glad to hear it

I am kind of jumping on the HST bandwagon and I'm fine with that...I have tried a lot of programs and have gotten gains out of all of them..even high volume worked for a little while

Sorry for rant\long post

 

[TheOak84]

Shouldn't knock it before you try it? I've never driven a Ford Escort, but I know it's not the next car I will buy.

you cant relate cars to lifitng, theres too much science behind lifting.

and whats bad about an escort? its not as fast as a mustang (which also suck dick), but has better gas milage. anyway, that doesnt even make sense.

y dont u put ur ego aside for 8 weeks and try it. its not like ur competing for anything, so u really dont have anything to lose. if ur training for fun, or size, or health or w/e, try it at least once. 2 sets a day isnt enough for strenght and endurance, but its enough to add a few extra pounds fast.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

god damnit posts shoudl be limited to 3 lines lol...j/k
scientifically it may be proven that a muscle recovers within 36-48 hours but if your hitting the muscle with more than 2 working sets i cant see how you can hit it again 3-4 days later..im using myslef as an example i squat on mondays and pull on thursday..my quads are just about ready for deads on thurs but i dont think i would be able to squat again..once im done with ed coans dl program im looking inot a russian squat program that squats 2x per week and the volume is super high ( im gonna save that for when i hop back on my super supps )

 

[TheOak84]

god damnit posts shoudl be limited to 3 lines lol...j/k
scientifically it may be proven that a muscle recovers within 36-48 hours but if your hitting the muscle with more than 2 working sets i cant see how you can hit it again 3-4 days later..im using myslef as an example i squat on mondays and pull on thursday..my quads are just about ready for deads on thurs but i dont think i would be able to squat again..once im done with ed coans dl program im looking inot a russian squat program that squats 2x per week and the volume is super high ( im gonna save that for when i hop back on my super supps )

i think extra volume is a waste and drains you for no reason. i use 9 sets every 3 days can i gain strenght and recover in enough time.

maybe some people can handle more volume better. but i hate people who say 'I NEEEEEEED high volume to grow" when they arent growing at all, anor/or gaining 1 pound a month and porgressing very little on the lifts.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

i think extra volume is a waste and drains you for no reason. i use 9 sets every 3 days can i gain strenght and recover in enough time.

maybe some people can handle more volume better. but i hate people who say 'I NEEEEEEED high volume to grow" when they arent growing at all, anor/or gaining 1 pound a month and porgressing very little on the lifts.

did i say i need hi volume to grow?? you hst loyalists are so damn touchy lol
im on 5x5 and i can tell you i can barely walk the next day after squatting..no way i can squat 3 days later..thats 9 sets also in the 5x5 routine...i dont want to slam hst because ive never done it but some feel its the only way to make gains, which puzzles me...

 

[halfaclue]

some feel its the only way to make gains, which puzzles me...

I agree with you there...I am seeing a lot of hype but I am willing to try it because like I said before..its 6 weeks really to notice if it is for you or not...and if the results work for me like some people and I gain 5-10 lbs a cycle of this then damn right I am going to stay on it.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

No one is saying it's the only way to make gains, save maybe Casual. I only say this because I don't know if he's tried anything outside of HST. I know I have, Oak has and so has Debaser. However, it is the optimal way to gains as shown in the lab, through science and results of those who have tried it.

It's getting old, people debating this. Either try the fucking program, or don't. Be stubborn and think you're making the best gains of your life now. Whatever. It's been exhausted.

 

[TheOak84]

w2bb - i was acutally giving u my opinion on super high volume

im not an hst loyalist - i did it once, and i stated i use 9 sets per muscle currently.

and i wasnt directing my opinion toward you or anyone on the board, but people like that do exhist.

 

[InTraining]

For everyone who is saying "you can't recover fast enough and hit the body again in 2 days" you are doing VERY FEW SETS at a LOT LESS WEIGHT than you are "used" to...

Think about it..you are going to take 9-14 days off of lifting before even starting the actual program...if that doesn't kill your strength I don't know what will...

It is designed for progression..and you are starting at very low weights...

I can see now why the HST people on the boards don't like to argue about it...because some can't get the "BBer Ego" I NEED this exercise to grow or X number of sets and this exercise because it exhausts the upper quadrant of my pectoralis minor..

 

[Debaser]

Am I the only one that doesn't like HST? It seems the new thing on the board is to recommend this routine .. honestly, I just don't see it. Not a call out, if it works for you, power to you - I just don't get what all the hoopla is about

This post is very peculiar coming from someone who hasn't even tried the program. It just sounds stubborn and unfounded.

Your car analogy is incredibly poor. A better one would be trying sushi. In fact, if your post looked like this:

"Am I the only one that doesn't like sushi? It seems the new thing on the board is to recommend this dish .. honestly, I just don't see it. Not a call out, if you like it, power to you - I just don't get what all the hoopla is about"

Of course the response would be "so you've tried it and didn't enjoy it?"

To which you'd respond "Well, no, I've never eaten it. But I don't like it."

How ridiculous is that?

 

[BOOEY]

You're missing my point. Let's use your sushi example: Let's say I don't like rice and seaweed - throw up everytime I try it, however I don't mind raw fish. Now, even though I like raw fish, eating sushi would not be something I would volunteer to eat b/c of the rice and seaweed. Same principles here. I've tried the low volume, frequency approach and got diddly squat from it, however I lift lifiting. But even though I like lifting, I would not volunteer to try HST, based on the avoe reasons ... a little clearer? If not, let me know.

I wonder how many people actually get their diet/sleeping pattern/etc together immediately before starting a new program. Then, when the gains coming (mostly b/c they started eating correctly and getting enough rest), they claim its the program. A magic program. I can see that, b/c when someone recommends a program that has all this 'science' behind it, one might be inclined to fix the rest of their BB-life up to get the most out of it ... just a thought. Anyway, again, if it works for you guys awesome. Pump on.

 

[Debaser]

You're missing my point. Let's use your sushi example: Let's say I don't like rice and seaweed - throw up everytime I try it, however I don't mind raw fish. Now, even though I like raw fish, eating sushi would not be something I would volunteer to eat b/c of the rice and seaweed. Same principles here. I've tried the low volume, frequency approach and got diddly squat from it, however I lift lifiting. But even though I like lifting, I would not volunteer to try HST, based on the avoe reasons ... a little clearer? If not, let me know.

Just because you were training frequently with low volume doesn't necessarily mean you'll do well. Totally ignoring diet, I'll assume you had that in check:

1. Did you use strategic deconditioning?
2. Did you focus on progressive loading?

Those are integral to the program.

 

[InTraining]

I did a dry run of HST tonight in terms of the exercises I am going to use and sets etc....and whoa this is new for me...I need my work capacity to improve but otherwise I had a great workout...

Probably going to test my maxes starting monday....

 

[BOOEY]

If by strategic deconditioning you mean a week-9days off after finding the maxes, no I didn't. Progressive loading, yes. I started off with light weights, higher reps and progressively increased each week. Maybe a little quicker than the three weeks HST advises, but pretty close.

 

[Debaser]

If by strategic deconditioning you mean a week-9days off after finding the maxes, no I didn't. Progressive loading, yes. I started off with light weights, higher reps and progressively increased each week. Maybe a little quicker than the three weeks HST advises, but pretty close.

The deconditioning is essential to the program. Without it, all of the lighter weights are doing nothing for growth.

 

[InTraining]

Debaser I know it's a little early to ask but how do you like HST compared with stuff you have done in the past? This is your first HST cycle right?

 

[TheOak84]

taking 9 days off from lifting wont do shit to ur strenght, my friend stopped working out to run a marathon, he lost 25 pounds, he didnt train with weights for 3 months. we just worked out a week ago, his max on the bench and squat were the same. acutally his dead and squat went up. i mean, he lost bf, and is trimmer, but strenght is the same. so, ya, 9 days wont do shit. for real

 

[TRUEsoldier]

taking 9 days off from lifting wont do shit to ur strenght, my friend stopped working out to run a marathon, he lost 25 pounds, he didnt train with weights for 3 months. we just worked out a week ago, his max on the bench and squat were the same. acutally his dead and squat went up. i mean, he lost bf, and is trimmer, but strenght is the same. so, ya, 9 days wont do shit. for real

I think the better way to put that was "taking 9 days off might not do shit to your strength!"

some people lose strength fast, so to say it wont for anyone, is bullshit

I envy your friend

Peace

 

[TheOak84]

I think the better way to put that was "taking 9 days off might not do shit to your strength!"

some people lose strength fast, so to say it wont for anyone, is bullshit

I envy your friend

Peace

well i mean, i took the 9 days off, i knew deep down the hst routine would alter my strength, but i also knew it would come back 10x faster, so i wasnt worried, i jsut lost a lil power, but easily gained it back.

i really dont know what some people are worried out, its not that big of a deal if u get a lil weaker. so one week u max out at 315, u start hst, gain 8 pounds, and ur max will most likely stay the same or go a lil lower.. i personally think its worth it. u gotta give to get sometimes, even in the gym.

and in the bedroom

 

[InTraining]

9 days will do something to my strength but I don't really care...it's not the weight I am moving that matters to me it's the growth....

However eating the same with 9 days of no lifting as I would when lifting will be a challenge

 

[TRUEsoldier]

well i mean, i took the 9 days off, i knew deep down the hst routine would alter my strength, but i also knew it would come back 10x faster, so i wasnt worried, i jsut lost a lil power, but easily gained it back.

i really dont know what some people are worried out, its not that big of a deal if u get a lil weaker. so one week u max out at 315, u start hst, gain 8 pounds, and ur max will most likely stay the same or go a lil lower.. i personally think its worth it. u gotta give to get sometimes, even in the gym.

and in the bedroom

I gotcha!!

I think it has great principles and sounds great. I am deffinatly goign to try it, and who knows I might fall in love. I dont have any "pride issue" in the gym, so I dont care what people are thinkin or anything, its all about gains to me, and if it works!! GREAT

But I understand how this is deffinatly not somthing for strength, but more of LBM gains!!!! which is awesome for me, cuz that is my focus right now! HA

got a question for anyone that might know though,

Do you really think AAS would be a good idea, (cuz its not geared for strength gains, so why take it on a HST cycle?)
and what the hell are the Negs about in the routine??? still trying to figure that out..thanx

P eace!

 

[TheOak84]

9 days will do something to my strength but I don't really care...it's not the weight I am moving that matters to me it's the growth....

However eating the same with 9 days of no lifting as I would when lifting will be a challenge

so ur gonna stick with hst then?

i wouldnt do 2 cycles in a row, i tried but it was boring.

ill eventually do one again

 

[InTraining]

so ur gonna stick with hst then?

i wouldnt do 2 cycles in a row, i tried but it was boring.

ill eventually do one again

Yeh I will be giving HST a try in the near future...most likely a few weeks or a month as I am still making gains with my current program...also I want to get my conditioning up(I know I will be deconditioned after the 9 days but I still want to get a higher work capacity per session) as I am not used to full body workouts...though I still do a fair bit of volume per week...

I could see how the mechanic style of lifting with 2-3 second negatives and higher reps would get old ....5-10 lbs of LBM gain is not too shabby though!

 

[TheOak84]

I gotcha!!

I think it has great principles and sounds great. I am deffinatly goign to try it, and who knows I might fall in love. I dont have any "pride issue" in the gym, so I dont care what people are thinkin or anything, its all about gains to me, and if it works!! GREAT

But I understand how this is deffinatly not somthing for strength, but more of LBM gains!!!! which is awesome for me, cuz that is my focus right now! HA

got a question for anyone that might know though,

Do you really think AAS would be a good idea, (cuz its not geared for strength gains, so why take it on a HST cycle?)
and what the hell are the Negs about in the routine??? still trying to figure that out..thanx

P eace!

in some study i read, negatives promote 80% of the muscle growth the positive is about 5-10%. i could be wrong about this. but thats why 2 strict, progressive and frequent sets promotes muscle growth. i used 3 second negatives on all sessions. they were hard to get used to, seeing i never used to train like that, but still do now. not on warmup sets but on work sets yes.

but did u ever see the guy in the gym who benches 225 for 3x10 every monday, and has been doin that weight for 2 years.. some days he gets 3x12 some 3x8. but always uses 225. and he bounces that shit like hes the man. then u say to him, 'hey man, y dont u try like, 185 or 205 for a 2 nice sets of 8-10 with some better more controlled form' hes like fuck that, thats too easy of course i can do that..

well hes a jerk whos gonna get no where, so fuck him.

or the guy who does flat/incline/flat db/incline db/decline/incline flies/and pec deck and doesnt gain shit either... hes the guy that wears the diego tee and the JT bucket hat and cargo pants, and a gallon of dolce and gabana. hes like, i need flat for my lower chest, incline for my upper chest, decline again for my lower, flies to hit every angle of my chest. and his chest looks like a piece of drywall.

sorry for the rant.. lol

 

[TRUEsoldier]

in some study i read, negatives promote 80% of the muscle growth the positive is about 5-10%. i could be wrong about this. but thats why 2 strict, progressive and frequent sets promotes muscle growth. i used 3 second negatives on all sessions. they were hard to get used to, seeing i never used to train like that, but still do now. not on warmup sets but on work sets yes.

but did u ever see the guy in the gym who benches 225 for 3x10 every monday, and has been doin that weight for 2 years.. some days he gets 3x12 some 3x8. but always uses 225. and he bounces that shit like hes the man. then u say to him, 'hey man, y dont u try like, 185 or 205 for a 2 nice sets of 8-10 with some better more controlled form' hes like fuck that, thats too easy of course i can do that..

well hes a jerk whos gonna get no where, so fuck him.

or the guy who does flat/incline/flat db/incline db/decline/incline flies/and pec deck and doesnt gain shit either... hes the guy that wears the diego tee and the JT bucket hat and cargo pants, and a gallon of dolce and gabana. hes like, i need flat for my lower chest, incline for my upper chest, decline again for my lower, flies to hit every angle of my chest. and his chest looks like a piece of drywall.

sorry for the rant.. lol

Funny shit bro, and yes I have seen those idiots, and all I can do is shake my head, and pitty them! but like you said fuck em, if they dont want to learn...

Also I just read more of the FAQ's on HST and understand the whole negs now! LOL ha, what ya know, read and you can awnser your own questions...crazy concept huh...I'm an idiot some times, (most of the time )

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Yes you are.

 

[TRUEsoldier]

Yes you are.

there you go, dont hold back any punches!!LOL

 

[Debaser]

Do you really think AAS would be a good idea, (cuz its not geared for strength gains, so why take it on a HST cycle?)

Why take it? The reason everybody else does. With HST it'd make for sick growth.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Hey Debaser, how many cycles of HST have you done in the past, and what were your gains like? LBM I'm especially interested in.

 

[casualbb]

I don't really preach HST anymore. I figure the results speak for themselves. If someone is open-minded and wants to give it a go, welcome aboard and I'll help set it up.

Just for the record, I never said hst is the only thing that works. Quite the opposite, it is precisely BECAUSE so many different things work that so many programs exist.

If somebody needs help understanding the program or getting it set up, right on. But if somebody isn't going to try the program for any given reason, I'm not going to chase a convert. I just don't care.

 

[musclebosun]

[No message]

 

[musclebosun]

call me a dumb fuck but what is HST training. I never heard of it and i can't find a thread explaining exactly what 'it' is.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

call me a dumb fuck but what is HST training. I never heard of it and i can't find a thread explaining exactly what 'it' is.

look in the sticky above theres a link to the web site