Mavafanculo said:
search on my username and aromasin, then my username and Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - .
there are alot of studies showing SERMs like Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - (and specifically NOT arimidex, an anti-a) will shrink pre-existing gynecomastia.
there are also studies showing that combining Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - with Femera - letrozole - or arimidex will greatly reduce the effectiveness of the Femera - letrozole - or arimidex.
BUT, the good news is aromasins effectiveness will not be reduced by Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - .
so your options would be :
1) stick with the studies that show selective estrogen receptor modulator's being effective at reducing existing gynecomastia, or
2) take an experimental but theoretically sound shot at combining Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - + aromasin if his lump is as big as you say, or
3) the best option is to consult with a doctor experienced in these matters - check out Dr Blau
http://www.expertpcsupport.com/foru...-top-gynecomastia-surgeon-country-576472.html
p.s. as far as I know, while letro gets great anecdotal buzz at reducing existing gyno, there arent any studies backing that buzz. if anyone is aware of any, please post.
It may turn out that studies will demonstrate that while arimidex fails to reduce existing gyno, letro will. and if such is the case its probably because letro can al,most COMPLETELY shut down estrogen conversion, and arimidex is only approximately 80% effective at eliminating aromatse.
Found this--agree with Mava that no studies support femara/letro for existing lumps (anecdotal--many bros including myself had it work)--one study cited said it worked in mice J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2001 Dec;79(1-5):27-34.
Aromatase overexpression transgenic mice model: cell type specific expression and use of letrozole to abrogate mammary hyperplasia without affecting normal physiology
but here is a full profile of serms/anti e with citations
CLOMID
Clomid increases LH, FSH and testosterone (C1-C16, C21, C22).
Clomid response decreases significantly with aging (C1, C7, C11, C13).
Long term treatment with clomid is effective in normalising a suppressed axis:
-4 months clomid for 178 men with secondary hypogonadism significantly increases LH and free testosterone in all patients (C1).
-2 months clomid for 17 men with secondary hypogonadism significantly elevates LH, FSH and free testosterone levels (C4).
-12 months 25 mg/day clomid for 23 men with fertility problems increases LH, FSH and testosterone levels during the treatment (C8).
-3 months 50 mg/day clomid for 5 oligozoospermic men causes a significant rise in serum testosterone (C15).
Short term clomid treatment is effective in normalising a suppressed axis:
-5 days clomid for 45 men significantly increases LH, FSH and serum testosterone (C2).
-1 week 100 mg/day clomid for 42 men with kidney problems increases LH, FSH and testosterone levels in all subjects (C6).
-1 week clomid for 21 men with erectile complaints increases gonadotropin and testosterone levels (C7).
-3 weeks 100 mg clomid/day for 5 men increases LH + FSH 3-fold, and circulating testosterone 2-fold (C10).
-11 days 100 mg clomid for 10 normozoospermatic, 29 oligozoospermatic and 11 azoospermatic men significantly increases FSH, LH and testosterone (also androstenedione and SHBG) (C14).
Clomid stimulates the axis in small amounts:
-25 mg/day clomid for 12 months in 23 men with fertility problems increases LH, FSH and testosterone levels during the treatment. Clomid treatment also results in greater LH, FSH and T responses to GnRH (C8, C8b).
-25 mg/day clomid for 25 days in 30 men with idiopathic male infertility increases LH 1,90 x, FSH 1,81 x and testosterone 1,89 x (C9).
Clomid increases LH, FSH and testosterone above basal levels:
-5 days clomid for 45 men significantly increases LH, FSH and serum testosterone (C2).
-1 week 100 mg/day clomid for 9 healthy males increases LH, FSH and testosterone levels in all subjects (C6).
-8 weeks 100 mg clomid for 10 normal men significantly increases testosterone and non-sex hormone-binding globulin bound testosterone (C11).
-Clomid increases LH and testosterone and increases pulse amplitude in normal men (C12).
-Clomid for 7 days in 55 healthy men increases mean serum total T and non-SHBG-bound levels in young men (22-35 yr) by 100% and 304%. In older men (65-84 yr) these values increased by only 32% and 8%. (C13).
Clomid increases estrogen levels
-25 mg/day clomid for 12 months in 23 men with fertility problems increases estradiol levels during the treatment (C8).
-3 weeks 100 mg clomid/day for 5 men increases circulating estradiol levels 2-fold (C10).
-50 mg/day clomid for 1-3 months in 5 boys increases estradiol significantly (C21).
-100 mg/day clomid in 22 boys increases estradiol levels during therapy (C22).
-100 mg/day clomid for 10 days in 21 normospermic and 36 oligozoospermic men increases estradiol (+60.8%) vs. (+58.8%-118.9%). A similar reaction of estradiol was shown in the HCG stimulation (C31).
-8 weeks 100 mg clomid for 10 normal men significantly increases estradiol (C11).
-Clomid does not differ estradiol in normal men (C12).
-11 days 100 mg clomid for 10 normozoospermatic, 29 oligozoospermatic and 11 azoospermatic men significantly increases estradiol (C14).
-3 months 50 mg/day clomid for 5 oligozoospermic men causes a significant rise in serum E2 (C15).
-100-200 mg clomid for 4 weeks, or 100 mg for 8 weeks increases estradiol (C16).
Clomid decreases suppression of chemically reduced LH levels:
-(Cetrorelix blocks the effects of Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH). GnRH controls the release LH.)
(40 patients) Clomid in combination with gonadotropins and 0.25 mg of Cetrorelix provides significantly higher LH concentrations than only gonadotropins and 0.25 mg of Cetrorelix (C3).
Combined clomid and hCG administration:
-A single dose of (5000 i.u. i.m.) hCG was administrated before and after 3 months of 50 mg clomid/day in 5 oligozoospermic men. Before the CC-treatment normal responses to hCG were seen (significantly elevated E2 levels at 1 day and T levels at 4 days). After CC, only the concentrations of 17-OHP4 rose significantly following hCG administration (C15).
Following clomid administration a single dose of (5000 i.u. i.m.) hCG (C15).
Clomid not fit enough to treat gyno. At least in small doses.
-12 boys with persistent gyno used 50 mg clomid for 1-3 months. Only 5 boys experienced a reduction of > 20% (C21).
-22 boys with gyno used 100 mg clomid/day. 14 (64%) responded within 6 months (C22).
C1)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
C2)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
C3)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
C4)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
C5)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
C6)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
C7)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
C8)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
C8b)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
C9)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
C10)
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi....psecsha
C11)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
C12)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
C13)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
C14)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
C15)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
C16)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
C21)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
C22)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
C31)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
NOLVADEX
The way nolvadex works:
Nolvadex can activate neural timing mechanism(s) that govern the intermittent release of endogenous GnRH. 20 mg nolvadex/day for 7 days in 6 normal men attenuates the ability of exogenous GnRH to increase the bio/immuno LH ratio further, which suggests the attainment of maximal enrichment in endogenous LH bioactivity in the presence of antiestrogen (N4).
Nolvadex increases LH, FSH and testosterone values (N1-N4, N24, N29)
Long term treatment with nolvadex is effective in normalising a suppressed axis:
-6 months 20 mg nolvadex/day for 220 men with oligozoospermia increases LH, FSH and testosterone (N1).
-5,5 months 5-20 mg nolvadex/day for 12 men with oligozoospermia increases LH, FSH and testosterone (N3).
-2-4 months nolvadex for 6 men increases LH levels significantly (N24).
-2-12 months nolvadex for 8 boys increases testosterone. LH showed an increased response to LH-RH (N29).
Short term nolvadex treatment is effective in normalising a suppressed axis:
-1 week 20 mg nolvadex/day for 4 men causes a moderate increase in LH, FSH and testosterone (N2).
nolvadex stimulates the axis in small amounts:
-5, 10 and 20 mg nolvadex/day significantly increases basal testosterone levels and the responses of LH/FSH to LHRH infusion. Without significant differences between the lower (5-10 mg) or higher doses (20 mg) (N3).
Nolvadex increases LH, FSH and testosterone above basal levels:
-20 mg nolvadex/day for 1 week increases LH, FSH and testosterone in 4 normal men (N2).
-40 mg nolvadex/day for 10 days in 8 normal men increases basal bioactive LH concentrations from (42.7 +/- 6.9) to (97.6 +/- 19.4) mIU/ml. Total serum testosterone increases significantly (approx. 1.4-fold) (N4).
Nolvadex increases estrogen levels
-5,5 months nolvadex for 12 men does not significantly influence estradiol levels or the E2 over testosterone ratio (N3).
-2-4 months nolvadex for 6 men increases total estradiol levels significantly (N24).
-2-12 months nolvadex for 8 boys increases estradiol (N29).
Nolvadex appears effective in treating gynecomastia. Raloxifene possibly is even more effective.
-(13 men with painful gyno) 10 mg nolva/day for 3 months provided a good response in 10 patients (N21).
-(36 men) 20 mg nolva/day for 6-12 weeks resolved the mass in 30 patients (83,3%). Lump gyno was more responsive than the fatty type (100% vs. 62.5%) (N22).
-(23 men) 20 mg nolva/day provided complete resolution of gyno in 18 patients (78,2%). 400 mg danazol provided complete resolution in only 8 out of 20 patients (40%) (N23).
-(6 men with painful gyno) Nolva for 2-4 months provided only marginally significant size reduction (N24).
-(61 men with gyno) 40 mg nolva/day for 2 months provided complete regression of breast swelling in 80% (N25).
-(38 boys with persistent gyno) Nolva for 3-9 months reduces breast nodule diameter 2,1 cm. For raloxifene this was 2,5 cm. Nolva provided a significant decrease (<50%) in 41%, with raloxifene this was (86%) (N27).
-(10 boys with pubertal gyno) 20-40 mg nolva/day for 2-12 months decreases gyno totally in 8 boys (N29).
Effect nolvadex on heart and cholesterol in "normal" people seems positive, in women with breast cancer conflicting:
-40 mg nolvadex for 8 weeks in 16 men with coronory artery disease increases %ED-FMD and decreases several plasma cardiovascular risk factors (N11).
-10 mg nolvadex for 1 and 3 months in 15 healthy boys effects blood lipids and hemostasis similar, but lesser than described in women (N12).
-Nolvadex for 6 months in 54 women treated for breast cancer increases HDL-C/total-Cholesterol ratio which might lead to an increased cardiovascular risk (N13).
-Nolvadex for 3 + 6 months in 80 women with breast cancer: 38 premenopausal women showed no significant variation in serum lipoprotein profiles, 42 postmenopausal women showed significant improvement in serum lipoprotein profiles (N14).
-Nolvadex for 2 months in 16 postmenopausal women with breast cancer shows marked hypertriglyceridemia in 3/16 patients (N15).
-20 mg nolvadex for 2 years in 57 normal postmenopausal women reduces the levels of atherogenic lipids and fibrinogen which may substantially reduce the risk o cardiovascular disease (N16).
Side effects Nolvadex
-(13 men) 10 mg nolva/day for 3 months. One patient developed calf tenderness and stopped the medication. No other adverse effects were reported (N21).
-(61 men) 40 mg nolva/day. No long term side effects were observed over a 3 year follow-up period (N25).
-(38 boys) Nolvadex for 3-9 months did not show any side effects (N27).
-(8 boys) Nolvadex for 2-12 months did not show any side effects (N29).
N1)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
N2)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
N3)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
N4)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....bstract
N11)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
N12)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
N13)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....bstract
N14)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....bstract
N15)
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/83/5/1633
N16)
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...act/80/11/3191
N21)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
N22)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
N23)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
N24)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
N25)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
N27)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
N29)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
ARIMIDEX + FEMARA
Arimidex increases LH, FSH and testosterone values (A1-6)
-1 mg/day arimidex for 2 weeks in 10 men with IHH normalises levels of testosterone, LH and estradiol (A4).
Arimidex response decreases significantly with aging (A2).
Arimidex increases LH, FSH and testosterone above basal levels:
-1,0 mg/day arimidex for 10 weeks in 8 healthy young men (15-22 yr) increases serum T (58%), LH and FSH concentrations (A1).
-Arimidex for 1 day in 11 young and 9 older men elevates mean LH concentrations by 2.1-fold (A2).
-10 mg/day arimidex for 5 days in 9 normal men increases testosterone levels (563 +/- 42 to 817 +/- 81 ng/dl) (A5).
Arimidex decreases estrogen levels (A1-A3, A5):
-1,0 mg/day arimidex for 10 weeks in 8 young men (15-22 yr) decreases E2 by 48% (A1).
-Arimidex for 1 day in 11 young and 9 older men decreases serum estradiol concentrations by 50% (A2).
-10 mg arimidex for 5 days in 9 normal men decreases E2 (33 +/- 3 to 14 +/- 1 pg/mL; P: < 0.0005) (A5).
0,5 mg arimidex provides the same decrease (50%) in E2 concentrations as 1 mg/day (A1).
1 mg/day arimidex increases testosterone significantly more than 1 mg/twice weekly, but provides no difference in estrogen levels (A3):
-1 mg/day arimidex for 12 weeks in 12 elderly men increases mean bioavailable testosterone from (99 +/- 31) to (207 +/- 65 ng/dl).
-1 mg/twice weekly arimidex for 12 weeks in 11 elderly men increases mean bioavailable testosterone (115 +/- 37) to (178 +/- 55 ng/dl).
Blocking of estrogen does not influence body composition or strength:
-1,0 mg/day arimidex for 10 weeks in 8 young men (15-22 yr) does not significantly change body composition (body mass index, fat mass, and fat-free mass) or in rates of protein synthesis or degradation; carbohydrate, lipid, or protein oxidation; muscle strength; calcium kinetics; or bone growth factors concentrations (A1).
Arimidex opposes exogenous testosterone's suppression of LH and FSH secretion:
-KTCZ lowers serum testosterone concentration (423 +/- 57 ng/dL (15 +/- 2.0 nmo/L) to 58 +/- 8.6 ng/dL (2.0 +/- 0.3 nmol/L). Added transdermal testosterone increases testosterone levels to (607 +/- 57 ng/dL (21 +/- 2.0 nmol/L).
KTCZ alone increases LH 3-fold and FSH 2.5-fold. Added transdermal testosterone represses the elevated secretion of both LH and FSH to mid-normal baseline values.
When arimidex is added to this, it completely opposes exogenous testosterone's suppression of 24-h LH and FSH secretion. It likewise abolished testosterone-dependent inhibition of 3-h GnRH-stimulated LH and FSH release (A6).
Arimidex is not effective in the treatment of gynecomastia:
-Bicalutamide (150 mg/d) + placebo or in combination with (20 mg/d) nolvadex or anastrozole (1 mg/d) for 48 weeks was given to 114 men with prostate cancer. Gyno developed in 73% of patients in the bicalutamide group, 10% of the bicalutamide-nolvadex group, and 51% of the bicalutmide-anastrozole group (A11).
-1 mg arimidex for 6 months in 80 boys with gyno provided a 38,5% response vs. 31,4% in the placebo group (A12).
-Arimidex for 6 months in 5 boys with gyno provided a decrease of breast size in 4/5 patients, but breast tissue did not dissappear in 4/5 boys (A13).
Side effects arimidex
-1 mg arimidex for 6 months in 80 boys was well tolerated (A12).
-Arimidex for 6 months in 5 boys did not show any adverse effects (A13).
Arimidex and lipid profiles:
-Some studies show anastrozole as generally having little effect on lipids, while others have indicated adverse effects on lipid profiles/increased hypercholesterolaemia (F11).
Femara increases LH, FSH and testosterone values (F1-F3)
-7.5-17.5 mg femara/week for 6 weeks in 10 men with hypogonadism increases LH (4.5 +/- 0.8 to 14.8 +/- 2.3 U/l) and total testosterone (7.5 +/- 1.0 to 23.8 +/- 3.0 nmol/l) (F2).
Femara increases LH, FSH and testosterone above basal levels:
-2,5 mg/day femara for 28 days in 20 healthy men increases LH (323-339%) and testosterone (99-146%) (F1).
Femara decreases estrogen levels:
-2,5 mg/day femara for 28 days in 20 healthy men lowers E2 by 46% in young men and 62% in elder men (F1).
-7.5-17.5 mg femara/week for 6 weeks in 10 men with hypogonadism decreases serum estradiol (120 +/- 20 to 70 +/- 9 pmol/l) (F2).
Femara keeps estradiol levels basal and increases testosterone + GnRH-induced LH response during testosterone treatment:
-A low-dose testosterone treatment was given to 23 boys with constitutional delay of puberty. Femara keeps estradiol concentrations at pretreatment levels and increases testosterone > 5-fold higher than testosterone alone (F3).
-Testosterone treatment was given to 25 boys with delayed puberty for 5 months. T concentrations increased by 55% and 17beta-E2 increased by 130% and gonadotropin concentrations were suppressed. Femara keeps 17beta-E2 at pretreatment levels and increases T concentrations 606%. Basal gonadotropin concentration and the GnRH-induced LH response increased, and the GnRH-induced FSH response did not change (F4).
No studies can be found on the effect of femara on gyno!Femara and lipid profiles:
-Letrozole has been associated with adverse effects on lipid profiles in some studies, including BIG 1-98, but short-term data from randomised trials do not show increased cardiovascular morbidity (F11).
A1)
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/7/2370
A2)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....y_hl=14
A3)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....y_hl=15
A4)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....y_hl=16
A5)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....y_hl=18
A6)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....y_hl=17
A11)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
A12)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
A13)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
F1)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
F2)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
F3)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
F4)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=1
F11)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....ry_hl=3
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