Gyno Help. Plz Guys!

[khemix]

Okay guys, so heres the situation:

I've got a buddy on 500mg/wk of test enth, and 400mg/wk of deca. Hes almost 2wks into it.

His nips are getting puffy and sensitive. I think that its the test causing the tenderness due to the fact that the test is faster acting. I could be wrong and it could be progesterone induced from the deca???

Hes had this problem before and Nolvadex did nothing.

I'm thinking he should take something along the lines of Anastrozole or Letrozole but I'm not really updated on whats best nowadays. (Been out of the scene for a bit)

I really appreciate everyones help and I'm happy to be back!

Chris

 

[thebadguy54]

I'd cut the Deka and start Letrozole asap at 2.5mg ed.

 

[Big Rick Rock]

Gyno starting up at 2wks into the cycled? Thats kind of quick...

Is he a heavy guy or just very Gyno prone?

 

[OMEGA]

E rises pretty much as the T does ( thats how the body maintains some sort of balance)

HOWEVER the key to this gyno is the DECA in the Presence of the E levels from the T

a Low dose of AI plus say HALF the DECA he using will solve the issue.

He better skip the next 1-2 deca shots if he does not want boobs.

 

[cycler]

I would recommend arimadex. Totally helped my nip when they got tender on my last cycle. Within 3-4 hours the soreness and tenderness were gone. I was taking 1mg eod.

 

[rnch]

is your "friend" the guy in ur avi? hope not.......

 

[Mavafanculo]

find out what his last cycle was that caused him the problem

in terms of current treatment, some facts to consider - no definitive answer

1) the only compounds I've seen scientific studies for backing reversal of __existing gyno__ are the SERMS Nolvaldex & raloxifene (see next post) . one specific study explicitly stated that arimidex, an anti-a, was NOT effective at reversal.

2) complicating matters in your friends case, is growing anecdotal Bro-ology consensus that Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - + nandrolones increases the liklihood of P-gynecomastia. It has a grain of science in that there was at least one study I've read (an incidental mention in an off-point study, but hey) that indicated that Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - upregulates progesterone receptors.

3) also growing anedotal consensus that progesterone gynecomastia (if there is such an animal) requires a small amount of estrogen to manifest. cut off the estrogen, halt the p-gynecomastia. since Femera - letrozole - is so effective at eliminating estrogen, this may be why its getting good buzz in connection with nandrolone related gynecomastia.

4) the senitive and puffy (vs itchy/lumpy) nips may indicate elevated prolactin from the Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - -Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - -Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - -Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - rather than actual gynecomastia. if this is the problem, dostinex @ .5mg 2x@week will stop it

There's alot of ways to go with this - if they were my boobs, I'd

1) -start with Femera - letrozole - and dostinex

2) - if the problem persists,

a) stop the nandrolones and then taper off the dostinex and Femera - letrozole -

b) then start the SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN (see next post) selective estrogen receptor modulator protocol for reversing existing gynecomastia --- raloxifene if you can get it, else Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - .

-

 

[Mavafanculo]

part 2

to repeat, while I know Femera - letrozole - has anecdotal buzz, last I searched (about a year ago), the only non-surgical agents that have studies showing reduction of EXISTING gynecomastia are the serms Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - and raloxifene

arimidex, which is an anti-a like Femera - letrozole - did nothing for reduction. great for prevention.

if anyone has studies showing Femera - letrozole - reduces xisting gynecomastia, post up



1)
Prevention and management of bicalutamide-induced gynecomastia and breast pain: randomized endocrinologic and clinical studies with tamoxifen and anastrozole.
Saltzstein D, Sieber P, Morris T, Gallo J.
Urology San Antonio Research PA, Pasteur Medical Plaza, San Antonio, Texas, USA.

A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled multicenter trial involving 107 men receiving bicalutamide ('Casodex') 150 mg/day therapy following radical therapy for prostate cancer assessed tamoxifen ('Nolvadex') 20 mg/day and anastrozole ('Arimidex') 1 mg/day for the prophylaxis and treatment of gynecomastia/breast pain. Tamoxifen, but not anastrozole, significantly reduced the incidence of gynecomastia/breast pain when used prophylactically and therapeutically. Serum testosterone levels increased with tamoxifen relative to placebo but prostate-specific antigen levels declined in all treatment groups. Further studies are needed to define the optimum tamoxifen dose and to assess any impact on cancer control. The use of tamoxifen in this setting remains to be investigated



2)
1: J Pediatr. 2004 Jul;145(1):71-6. Related Articles, Links

Comment in:

* J Pediatr. 2005 Apr;146(4):576; author reply 576-7.
* J Pediatr. 2005 Apr;146(4):576; author reply 576-7.

Beneficial effects of raloxifene and tamoxifen in the treatment of pubertal gynecomastia.
Lawrence SE, Faught KA, Vethamuthu J, Lawson ML.
Department of Pediatrics, University of Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.

[email protected]

OBJECTIVES: To assess the efficacy of the anti-estrogens tamoxifen and raloxifene in the medical management of persistent pubertal gynecomastia.

STUDY DESIGN: Retrospective chart review of 38 consecutive patients with persistent pubertal gynecomastia who presented to a pediatric endocrinology clinic. Patients received reassurance alone or a 3- to 9-month course of an estrogen receptor modifier (tamoxifen or raloxifene).

RESULTS: Mean (SD) age of treated subjects was 14.6 (1.5) years with gynecomastia duration of 28.3 (16.4) months. Mean reduction in breast nodule diameter was 2.1 cm (95% CI 1.7, 2.7, P <.0001) after treatment with tamoxifen and 2.5 cm (95% CI 1.7, 3.3, P <.0001) with raloxifene. Some improvement was seen in 86% of patients receiving tamoxifen and in 91% receiving raloxifene, but a greater proportion had a significant decrease (>50%) with raloxifene (86%) than tamoxifen (41%). No side effects were seen in any patients.

CONCLUSION: Inhibition of estrogen receptor action in the breast appears to be safe and effective in reducing persistent pubertal gynecomastia, with a better response to raloxifene than to tamoxifen. Further study is required to determine that this is truly a treatment effect.

PMID: 15238910 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

3)
Management of physiological gynaecomastia with tamoxifen.
Khan HN, Rampaul R, Blamey RW.
Professorial Unit of Surgery, Department of Surgery, Nottingham City Hospital, Nottingham NG5 1PB, UK.

AIMS: We aimed to confirm suggestions that tamoxifen therapy alone may resolve physiological gynaecomastia. METHODS: A prospective audit of the outcome of tamoxifen routinely given to men with physiological gynaecomastia was carried out at Nottingham. Men referred with gynaecomastia had clinical signs recorded, e.g., type (diffuse 'fatty' or retro-areolar 'lump'), size and possible aetiology. They were offered oral tamoxifen 20mg once daily for 6-12 weeks. On follow-up patients were assessed for complete resolution (CR), partial resolution where patient is satisfied with outcome (PR) or no resolution (NR). Success was either CR or PR. RESULTS: Thirty-six men accepted tamoxifen for physiological gynaecomastia. Median age was 31 (range 18-64). Tenderness was present in 25 (71%) cases. Sixteen men (45%) had 'fatty' gynaecomastia and 20 had 'lump' gynaecomastia. Tamoxifen resolved the mass in 30 patients (83.3%; CR=22, PR=8) and tenderness in 21 cases (84%; CR=0, PR=0). Lump gynaecomastia was more responsive to tamoxifen than the fatty type (100% vs. 62.5%; P=0.0041). CONCLUSIONS: Oral tamoxifen is an effective treatment for physiological gynaecomastia, especially for the lump type.

 

[OMEGA]

no if you want the best Bro-ology advice lets simply it bro

1) use Arimidex - anastrozole - or Aromasin but not so much that you kill the effects of Test ( limit gains)
using Femara woudl be insane when the real problem is simply the over doing of the Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - with a a normal amount of Test that can easily be controlled with minor amount of the aromatase inhibitor mentioned

2) CUT BACK the Deca from 400 to 200

 

[ALIN]

Okay guys, so heres the situation:

I've got a buddy on 500mg/wk of test testosterone enanthate, and 400mg/wk of Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - . Hes almost 2wks into it.

His nips are getting puffy and sensitive. I think that its the test causing the tenderness due to the fact that the test is faster acting. I could be wrong and it could be progesterone induced from the Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - ???

Hes had this problem before and Nolvadex did nothing.

I'm thinking he should take something along the lines of Anastrozole or Letrozole but I'm not really updated on whats best nowadays. (Been out of the scene for a bit)

I really appreciate everyones help and I'm happy to be back!

Chris

In addition to an AI like ARIMIDEX or LETRO he may consider using some BROMOCRIPTINE or DOSTINEX in case of prog. sides from DECA

 

[OMEGA]

fine 300

 

[khemix]

Man I f'ing love you guys. I really appreciate all the greats responses, especially omega and mav. Theres some great info in those posts and heres what I gather:

Sounds deca-induced.
Make him take Nolv to help reduce.
Letrozone or arimidex to help prevent.

Hes had gyno surgery in the past so hes absolutly prone to it. Simple cycle of test and deca was the culprit.

Again thanks everybody, this place helps like no other

 

[Zuperman]

let us know bro, keep us posted. goodluck

 

[OMEGA]

its only Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - induced If systemic Estrogen was already elevated ( which is clear form the Test base present), thus making it a whole lot easier for Deca Sides to appear which are uncontrollable with an aromatase inhibitor ( in an immediate fasion at least)

thus the best course of action is to drop Deca for 1-2 weeks till the half lives degrade, continue with Test thsi time with the use of an aromatase inhibitor modestly , then Deca again at NO MORE THEN 200-300 mgs a week EVER.

Deca sides wont appear and def wont appear do to modest aromatase inhibitor use which is enough to keep Systemic Estrogen Controlled but NOT suppressed.
Which is why letro/ femara woudl be waaaay to much. and Not addressing the true problem which is simple the cycle ratios itself.

OR you could ignore this advice, I just show us the Titteh pics

 

[OMEGA]

Mava is the man we only disagree with method

its not a wrong method its more of a fail safe exit strategy ( Mavas ideas)

where I state 'the' way to control the issue(s) then Pick up again perfectly for max gain.

 

[xrsist]

no nolva when running nandrolones bro, it may increase the chance of gyno/prog sides. imo drop decca dose down a bit, run letro at .5mg ED for a week and see where were at..

 

[eddymerckx]

no Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - when running nandrolones bro, it may increase the chance of gynecomastia/prog sides. imo drop decca dose down a bit, run Femera - letrozole - at .5mg ED for a week and see where were at..

i ran femara for the first time this week (week eight of test e so i guess it got a bit high) just .5 four days and it went away and did not feel the drag i get from armidex

 

[Varga]

Drop the d e c a and tell yor friend to never touch it again and the same goes for t r e n.
If you get sides at 3-400mgEW a week of D e c a game over and not worth the hassle to take it.
I know a buddy of mine who got 2 gyno surgery from d e c a finally he decided to drop it

 

[OMEGA]

this a very educational thread


its awsome when we all offer these golden shards of knowledge

I just learned MORE by reading xrsist and Mava

 

[socket]

From my own personal experience:

I've always been gyno prone, and have had small lumps/swellings for years, even whilst off gear for years.

Back on earlier this year with Test/tren/deca/winny, got gyno bad pretty quickly, knew it was down to deca/tren, so bought some femara, and took 1/4 table for a week, and nearly all the swelling had gone, remarkable stuff. Therefore, i know it was prog induced Gyno, and for next cycle, i'll run a VERY low dose of Arimidex every couple of days with the deca or tren, if it flares up, i'll do the femara to cut it dead in it's tracks.

 

[crazydave]

is your "friend" the guy in ur avi? hope not.......

Are "YOU" the guy in your avi? I really hope not

 

[khemix]

is your "friend" the guy in ur avi? hope not.......

Lol luckily no, its not me. I've had it in the past but nolvadex helped me. I've still got a little bit of tissue but its not noticeable.

How have you been bro?

 

[khemix]

Did I already say thanks for all the help guys? I think so but I wanna say it again.

So ...thanks guys. You've been loads of help .

 

[Mavafanculo]

Did I already say thanks for all the help guys? I think so but I wanna say it again.

So ...thanks guys. You've been loads of help .

hope it goes well - let us know

 

[rnch]

Lol luckily no, its not me. I've had it in the past but nolvadex helped me. I've still got a little bit of tissue but its not noticeable.

How have you been bro?

not at all noticeable in ur quality pics here....doing ok but post-katrina life is taking it's toll on my waist line.. i'd sell my left nut to have ur doner DNA and dedication and results!

 

[khemix]

Up to the top. Thanks again to everyone who helped!

 

[OMEGA]

let us know how you, I mean your "freind" does

 

[khemix]

let us know how you, I mean your "freind" does

Lol I knew thats where you bastards were gonna take this! I'll let you guys know how the gyno situation turns out and what worked. Thanks again my bitches!

Chris

 

[rnch]

"friend"

 

[eddawg]

Great info on this thread!

 

[OMEGA]

"friend"