Good news for -> RU-486 needs

[decem]

1. You totally contradicted yourself. The majority of people having abortions are those who are in the upper 10% in socio-econimic status. They use abortions as a form of birth control. Sure, the poor would probably do this too however, they can't afford an abortion. So they go on and have their child at the local charity hospital while the rich girl (who could easily afford to give this child a prosperous life) has her baby aborted and researched for stem cells.

2. Over time, we will see an increase in the lives of the poor who give birth thus increasing the availble time for producing more children. These people would eventually end up as you say, overpopulating the world.

3. Why do we need to live 40% longer? Won't you eventually die anyway? Then what was accomplished outside of overpopulation?

4. Oh, but I guess you could always just start picking numbers at random of who lives and dies... Nothing justifies killing another human. Sure, aborting fetuses to study could lead to a perfect race of humans, but you see what would up happening to hitler.

-Stew

1. you got me there.. you're right.. BUT if ru-486 were to be approved and become popular enough that it allowed the companies to produce it and sell it at a cheaper price.. then it could be distributed to the poor (perhaps a govt. program where they go around handing out ru-486 in schools like they do with condoms).. then the poor WOULD have access to such measures..

2. right..

3. yes.. we eventually die anyway.. but do you think that you are going to accomplish ALL that you want to accomplish and learn ALL you want to learn by the time you die? i don't.. and i've accomplished a great deal already.. and will continue to do so.. but there is SO much more i want to do and learn and see.. if i lived longer.. i could do it.

4. see.. now you contradicted yourself.. if you picked numbers at random.. then it would not be like hitler at all.. hitler tried to purify the human race by eliminating a specific race/culture.. but if you're SLOWING the growth of the poor popluation without specifically targeting blacks, whites, hispanics.. then you're also going to slow the growth of programs to support such populations.. in addition.. if you were to target the unhealthy in such populations.. those that would cause an even greater strain on society due to whatever affliction they might carry.. while not bringing forth any productive capabilities.. then that would further lessen the burden on society..

 

[Stew Meat]

...but if you're SLOWING the growth of the poor popluation without specifically targeting blacks, whites, hispanics..

You're targeting a specific group, children, because you see them as different than yourself.


I hope everyone is enjoying this, we're not having any outside support on this are we, decem
Brother, even though I disagree with you on this specific topic, I do value your opinions and consider you a friend. I don't want this to get heated.. we're just two bros looking at two different sides of a coin.


-Stew

 

[decem]

You're targeting a specific group, children, because you see them as different than yourself.


I hope everyone is enjoying this, we're not having any outside support on this are we, decem
Brother, even though I disagree with you on this specific topic, I do value your opinions and consider you a friend. I don't want this to get heated.. we're just two bros looking at two different sides of a coin.


-Stew

yeah.. i don't know why anyone else has yet to chime in..

but i agree with you.. in that i too value your opinions/input on the board a great deal..

some of the shit i write on this board i don't even believe or feel that way.. i just write it to get people worked up so a debate will ensue.. maybe i shouldn't write that cause now people will know what i'm all about.. but ah well.. i'll still find a way to get them torqued off..

but you're also right in that i do see children as different than myself. fetuses in the beginning stages of development do not "know" what is going on.. they do not "know" that they are being aborted.. they do not "know" that someone is intentially harming them. not only that, but they have yet to have any experiences that can be considered human..

take a look at animals in the wild.. for the betterment of the group/herd/flock/pod and continuation of the existence of the species.. each and every animal in nature will first either unconciously abort the fetus because it feels/knows that the conditions to come will be to harsh to raise the fetus.. or.. after giving birth.. it will either refuse to feed the infant or leave it behind when the group departs on a long migration.. etc etc..

the point is that every animal in nature.. besides humans.. have no problem in doing what it takes to provide for the best living conditions of the species in the future and the continued existence of said species.. why should humans be any different? if we know that doing so will cut down the population of peoples living at the poverty level.. or cut down the growth of the rapid population growth in place today... both of which would have extreme ratifications for the good.. why should we not do it?

 

[panerai]

Don't worry guys, the goverments take care of overpopulation.
BTW, Why did you get So Much OFF the topic?
MODERATORS, can you, PLEASE, transfer this thread to chat board?

 

[panerai]

Oh, shit, I didnt' realise that Stew is Moderator, sorry...

 

[Audio8]

well it's been a while since i read this thread last..seems you two got into an interesting debate here. I'm glad you two agreed to disagree in a civilized manner..mad props....even more props if your on fina or halo.

All I want to point out, like I always say, anyone can rationalize a justification to any action or thought. Does that make everything right? There is right, and there is wrong, and then there is what sounds good. Most of the time, what sounds good is what most people accept, and alot of times it is not right.

 

[cockdezl]

"1. you got me there.. you're right.. BUT if ru-486 were to be approved and become popular enough that it allowed the companies to produce it and sell it at a cheaper price.. then it could be distributed to the poor (perhaps a govt. program where they go around handing out ru-486 in schools like they do with condoms).. then the poor WOULD have access to such measures.. "

Yes, because we all know how wonderfully government programs, such as free condoms, has reduced the number of unwanted or out-of-wedlock children. Free RU-486 for kids, what a great idea.

Do not believe the horseshit idea that poor people don't have abortions due to monetary restraints, since there are essentially very few "poor" people today. Social programs are abundant and
very simple to obtain. The problem is the concept of monetary compensation for increased family size. As Malthus stated back in the 1800's, welfare programs expand the numbers of poor.


"3. yes.. we eventually die anyway.. but do you think that you are going to accomplish ALL that you want to accomplish and learn ALL you want to learn by the time you die? i don't.. and i've accomplished a great deal already.. and will continue to do so.. but there is SO much more i want to do and learn and see.. if i lived longer.. i could do it. "

This is irrelevant. You have no right to a longer life for the promotion of your own enjoyment. Plus, the greater the ability to expand life-spans, will surely decrease our value for our time here. People in the 1600's became parents and workers at very early ages, due to the fact that their lifetimes were short and you needed to become responsible and productive much earlier. Nowadays people don't become responsible until late 20's early 30's. Think of how much time people would waste if we lived to be 200 years old.

"4. see.. now you contradicted yourself.. if you picked numbers at random.. then it would not be like hitler at all.. hitler tried to purify the human race by eliminating a specific race/culture.. but if you're SLOWING the growth of the poor popluation without specifically targeting blacks, whites, hispanics.. then you're also going to slow the growth of programs to support such populations.. in addition.. if you were to target the unhealthy in such populations.. those that would cause an even greater strain on society due to whatever affliction they might carry.. while not bringing forth any productive capabilities.. then that would further lessen the burden on society.."

You really don't believe this crap, do you? You want the government to determine people's life span, only in an un-biased fashion? Have you ever heard of totalitarianism? Hint: it ain't good.

 

[decem]

so there are very few "poor" people nowadays AND living longer would be a great big waste of time.. uh.. sure.. ok

i really don't want to respond to your reply as there is only a very little rational thought involved.. but what the hay..

so.. you'd rather not be living, breathing, and enjoying the fruits of the earth for an extra hundred years.. is that right? is that because you're into decomposition and being eaten by worms? cause from the way it looks.. that ain't to fucking fun..

so who gives a fuck if people waste more of their life.. they'll at least HAVE a life to waste.. sssshhheeesshhh..

and for there being very few "poor" people around. c'mon now..

but i will agree with you in one aspect.. in that i too feel that welfare/gov't programs greatly increase the number of needy/poor/reliant in our country.

 

[cockdezl]

"so there are very few "poor" people nowadays AND living longer would be a great big waste of time.. uh.. sure.. ok"

Poor is a relative term. We do not have poor people in this country in the same regards as countries such as Ethiopia, Somalia, etc. Due to the productivity and wealth of the working class in this country, and the socialist redistribution programs, there are no people in America that can claim poverty to the same extent as the aforementioned countries. What we have in this country is a class that has become dependent on government programs for existance. Their poverty is essentially the lack of a job, not the lack of money or necessities, such as food, shelter, healthcare, etc. In truly impoverished nations, people do not have essentials, because they do not exist; there are no jobs, there is little food, there are few hospitals. We have bent over backwards to give assistance to the underclass and it has essentially become their existance, not an aid to help someone until they get out of hard times.

"i really don't want to respond to your reply as there is only a very little rational thought involved.. but what the hay.."

This coming from the person who thinks that China is doing a great job with their population control programs? I'll bet the wolves who are eating the female infants are loving this program.

And didn't you state that our political programs should be modeled after studies on animal behaviors? The whole "Well animals do it, so why shouldn't we?". My dog eats the cat shit out of the kitty litter box, should we model our school lunch programs after this?

"so.. you'd rather not be living, breathing, and enjoying the fruits of the earth for an extra hundred years.. is that right? is that because you're into decomposition and being eaten by worms? cause from the way it looks.. that ain't to fucking fun.. "

If I have to live in a world that models your idea of how the country should be run, then yes, death would be a release.

"so who gives a fuck if people waste more of their life.. they'll at least HAVE a life to waste.. sssshhheeesshhh.. "

If life can be extended without the use of technologies that utilize the life of others, then I have no qualms. This would be essentially the same as the advent of penicillin. But if it becomes a technology that requires fetal tissues and aborted children, then no, I do not agree with the idea of extending my life through cannabalizing our young. At this point our offspring would have become a means to an end.

"and for there being very few "poor" people around. c'mon now.. "

Read the first paragraph.

"but i will agree with you in one aspect.. in that i too feel that welfare/gov't programs greatly increase the number of needy/poor/reliant in our country."

Then think what would happen with the extension of our lives. If people were living to 150-200 years, think how much longer we would have to procreate. But you argued for total government control of family size. If they can control this aspect of our lives, do you think you are free?

 

[TraxZBT]

"your right, there is no justification for it. But..."

But your about to attempt to justify it, right?


"sometimes under certain circumstances having a baby means the end of your life."

How did I know? A baby means the end of your life?!?!?! Please.

"One of my friends got his girl pregnant. They don't know how it happened since they he wears a rubber every time."

Yes, you may be right. Any person that doesn't understand that fucking causes babies may not be suitable for parenthood.

yeah we all understand what causes babies, what they don't understand is how it happened with a condom.




".. So what do they do in a situation like this?"

Ummm...maybe grow the fuck up, act like adults and take responsibility for their actions? Sorry, what was I thinking, responsibility is an outdated term, nobody really believes in this anymore, huh?

Oh yeah i forgot, i'm being corrected by the most responsible person in the planet.. sorry

"Him and his girl are still in college. They are 20 years old.. Having a baby now means a world of trouble for them. Having a baby means he can't be a doctor cause he has to provide for it. Abortion isn't right, but neither is the total hell he will endure for the rest of his life."

Whoppidy fucking doo!! Do they think that they are the only people in college who ever got knocked-up? There are countless people who had children during school and still accomplished their goals (my wife and I had our son prior to finishing college) . Why does a child prohibit med school? Do they discriminate against parents now? Did you really mean he CAN'T be a doctor now, or that this will just make him have to work harder? I am amazed at how you somehow correlated being a parent with "...total hell.." Having a child is not difficult, in fact they can be a great motivation...you now have a reason to work hard and better yourself.

maybe we should set up a shrine to you for being a model citizen. No they don't discriminate against parents, but how is he going to pay for his medical school when his parents lose all ties with him? Like i said people have different situations. Situations you never experienced. I never correlated being a parent with total hell. I myself can't wait till i'm a dad. But being a dad when it's not wanted is something that's not going to be a good situation.

This is a perfect example of the pathetic, "I don't want to have any responsibility", immediate gratification society we are producing. Talk to your grandparents and ask them how hard they had to work to get what they wanted in life. The 60's crowd and genX'rs have got to be the most pathetic individuals who ever wasted oxygen on this planet.

Welp, human race can't be perfect all the time.


None of the so-called beneficial effects of abortion, that were preached, have come to light. Poor women still have more children than middle and upper-class women, middle and upper-middle class girls use it as a birth control method so as not to affect their lifestyle, and there are still a high number of neglected, unwanted children. The whole abortion issue was a perfect extension of the 60's hatred for work and responsibility, it had nothing to do with improving the lifestyle of people.

Maybe Ossama needs to finish the job and blow US off the face of the earth, if this is how pathetic we have become.
I see you care more for unborn life than anyone elses life. whatever bro, it's your opinion and I respect it. I'm just showing you not everyone's on your mindset.