Given how many abortion doctors are killed (not that many)...

[mrplunkey]

Not what I was saying at all. All I was saying is the I don't want my tax-dollars going to pay for other peoples' kids when they see babies as a means to support themselves. I would rather my tax dollars go for birtch-control and medically safe abortions for those who haven't figured out how to use condoms.

This server doesn't have enough space to hold my list of what I don't want to spend tax dollars on.

 

[mrplunkey]

Sems like a sound arguement but it isn't.

I am trying to understand why people who live in places like India and China don't have this issue.

You are very bright and clearly a free-thinker. Perhaps you can explain that to me. No sarcasm, whatsoever.

Don't have an issue with what? Asian societies see males as a source of income and females as a source of debt. Men carry on the family name, while women terminate it.

 

[Bikini Mod]

Don't have an issue with what? Asian societies see males as a source of income and females as a source of debt. Men carry on the family name, while women terminate it.

Interesting, then morality is decided by money and lineage?

I just find it interesting that mostly Americans find the issue of abortion to be so morally outrageous. I was born here, true but raised as I would have been raised were I living in the country of my family's origin (where my family has returned). I find it RIDICULOUS that so many Americans are morally outraged for the "unborn children" of ONLY other Americans. What about the "unborn children" of other countries? Why aren't they flying to those countries to pickett in front of and blow up abortion clinics in other countries? Why are they only interested in forcing their morality on other Americans?

In these societies (where infanticide/abandonment and abortion are a daily consequence of sex between adults who are committed to one another) the elderly are treated well and generally well respected.

 

[redsamurai]

I'll admit that statistic puzzles me.......but I do know the cultured places in egypt don't roll like that. I went to egypt with my fathers best friend from childhood who was born there but is persian. We werent' around the strictly tourist places either, and no where where I went was anything like that going on. There's alot of progressive places in egypt. The govt. has a bad reputation because they are one of the few regimes there that is trying to hold back the extremists.......albeit they're becoming just as brutal themselves.

Good choice of Egypt as a example.



Their rate of female circumcision in 8-10 year old schoolgirls had dropped to 53%. Sure, over half of them still get their clits cut out. But let's focus on how progressive Egypt is toward women -- half of them get to keep them now! That's hope and change you can believe in.

 

[mrplunkey]

I'll admit that statistic puzzles me.......but I do know the cultured places in egypt don't roll like that. I went to egypt with my fathers best friend from childhood who was born there but is persian. We werent' around the strictly tourist places either, and no where where I went was anything like that going on. There's alot of progressive places in egypt. The govt. has a bad reputation because they are one of the few regimes there that is trying to hold back the extremists.......albeit they're becoming just as brutal themselves.

And there is zero drug-related crime in America too, because it's never happened in my 9-house subdivision.

 

[mrplunkey]

Interesting, then morality is decided by money and lineage?

I don't recall saying or implying that.

I just find it interesting that mostly Americans find the issue of abortion to be so morally outrageous. I was born here, true but raised as I would have been raised were I living in the country of my family's origin (where my family has returned). I find it RIDICULOUS that so many American's morally outraged for the "unborn children" of ONLY other Americans.

In these societies the elderly are treated well and generally well respected.

You can't lump everyone who has issues with abortion into one pile. I'm personally pro-choice, but this late-term abortion stuff where the baby would be viable has to go. Personally I think it's foolish on the pro-choice lobby's part to not go after partial birth abortions themselves. It would demobilize a small but significant portion of the pro-life support base and tip the scales into a clear majority toward pro-choice.

 

[Bikini Mod]

Fair enough.

This morning on our way into the office I was remembering a topic of discussion from a class in college called "Currrent Moral and Social Issues". (Yea, I got way too much free time.) There was a question raised about morality and disgust. The professor used extreme examples to elicit our feelings of disgust so that we could recognize that just because we found something to be disgusting that didn't necessarily = immorality.

I can't understand the logic behind having a late term abortion, I mean unless it were a case where I:

1. very much wanted the baby but decided to terminate the pregnancy based on the fact that to carry it to term would result in seriously compromising my health. I wouldn't consent to it but my husband (who is much older than I am) would try his best to sway me in the direction of termination. I don't know what I would do at this point in my life but given my personal circumstances I would have a hard time terminating the pregnancy even if it meant that I would most likely not be here to mother the child.

2. it was found that the fetus was so ill that it would have a greatly compromised quality of life. But again, given my personal circumstances I may opt to keep the baby even though I knew it might likely not even recognize that it was me that was loving and caring for them and would never become independent of me.

I fully understand and support ANY female's right to a medically safe abortion. But I can't wrap my head around waiting till you can feel the life inside of you move to decide to terminate. I would think that only in the most desperate of circumstances would that be the mother's choice. Just thinking about it saddens me on many levels.

 

[musclemom]

I can't understand the logic behind having a late term abortion, I mean unless it were a case where I:

1. very much wanted the baby but decided to terminate the pregnancy based on the fact that to carry it to term would result in seriously compromising my health. I wouldn't consent to it but my husband (who is much older than I am) would try his best to sway me in the direction of termination. I don't know what I would do at this point in my life but given my personal circumstances I would have a hard time terminating the pregnancy even if it meant that I would most likely not be here to mother the child.

2. it was found that the fetus was so ill that it would have a greatly compromised quality of life. But again, given my personal circumstances I may opt to keep the baby even though I knew it might likely not even recognize that it was me that was loving and caring for them and would never become independent of me.

Those are actually the usual situations in which late term abortions occur. They aren't treated like "regular" abortions, they are extreme situations.

For some reason, a lot of people prefer to imagine women and doctors being so callous as to be comfortable with third trimester abortions.

 

[javaguru]

Those are actually the usual situations in which late term abortions occur. They aren't treated like "regular" abortions, they are extreme situations.

For some reason, a lot of people prefer to imagine women and doctors being so callous as to be comfortable with third trimester abortions.

As I understand it Kansas requires a second opinion and specific criteria. It's not a woman can suddenly decide to terminate the pregnancy because she doesn't like back pains or looking fat anymore.

 

[redsamurai]

And there is zero drug-related crime in America too, because it's never happened in my 9-house subdivision.

meh, I see the point there......our family friend is not a practicing muslim, he's talked about things that go on in the middle east he doesn't agree with. He never mentioned that stuff. I think the middle east if more progressive than you give them credit for, at least in the educated areas. They certainly don't pull that female circumcision shit. That happens in the styx only.