Given how many abortion doctors are killed (not that many)...

[redsamurai]

man, if Bush had been trying to make mends with the muslims y'all would be howling for a nobel peace prize for him. What possible problem could you have with the POTUS trying to make peace with muslims so we don't have to worry about where the next 9/11 is going to happen. I mean for god's sake, are people so fucking jaded and polarized?

I have to admit, I do enjoy seeing a "liberated" woman support a guy who went on a butt-kissing tour touting the virtues and nobility of a religion that whips women who have the audacity to show their ankles in public. Who knows, maybe he can bring some of that hope and change here.

 

[mrplunkey]

Okay, firstly, there is a big difference between the way a fundamentalist Islamic treats the women in his life versus a "regular" Moslem.

Let Obama kiss the middle easterners asses. Do you really think fundamental Islamic terrorism will ever be conquered from the outside without wholesale slaughter of countless innocent people? I'm talking something that would make Hiroshima look like a birthday party.

I'm personally offended by the Islamic view of women, yes, HOWEVER, the fact remains we need to start treating Middle Easterners with the same level of respect we give to any other nation, because that's the only way a dialogue is going to get started. Once we get a dialogue, then our culture starts to infiltrate them. Those broads get a taste of Cosmo and Vogue and Clinique and Estee Lauder and Michael Kors, Gucci, Fendi, and Prada and you think they're going to KEEP letting those men do that shit?

What did they have before? SAND. Get them a god-damned Body
Works shop on Main Street Saudi Arabia, put in a day spa and a mall, you'll be shocked at how fast those women start taking charge of their lives.

We will never achieve world peace by remaining arrogant and isolationist.

Basic axiom, you want to get respect, you need to give respect, and we are at a point where a whole lot of places no longer respect the United States.

Oh, and I'm thrilled to see someone other than a rich old white dude in the chair. Black, yellow, red, female, I don't care, just SOMEONE other than another narrow minded and short sighted white man.

Ok, I get it. We accept them at face value and then slowly infiltrate them with "progressive" values. Good idea! Since it's apparently so easy to do, let's give extremists in the good old USA the same treatment.

Now type after me: "Pat Robertson can never be dealt with using arrogance and isolation". Then type: "Bill O'Reilly's view must be given respect." And let's cap it off with: "Randall Terry must be addressed with meaningful dialogue." Oh wait -- one more: "Rush Limbaugh must be treated at the same level as my own personal world view".

Give it a try -- you may get the ball rolling and start a trend!

I find it ironic how barry is applying Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" toward his own domestic opponents while lecturing us on reaching out to Islam.

 

[redsamurai]

He's reaching out to the moderate muslims not yet infected with extremism. Your post would only make sense if he's inviting Bin Laden for coffee on the back white house terrace.......which he's not and you know he's not.

Your analogy failed. He's doing the smartest thing that any american president has done in a "very" long time......be they democrats or republicans.

Ok, I get it. We accept them at face value and then slowly infiltrate them with "progressive" values. Good idea! Since it's apparently so easy to do, let's give extremists in the good old USA the same treatment.

Now type after me: "Pat Robertson can never be dealt with using arrogance and isolation". Then type: "Bill O'Reilly's view must be given respect." And let's cap it off with: "Randall Terry must be addressed with meaningful dialogue." Oh wait -- one more: "Rush Limbaugh must be treated at the same level as my own personal world view".

Give it a try -- you may get the ball rolling and start a trend!

I find it ironic how barry is applying Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" toward his own domestic opponents while lecturing us on reaching out to Islam.

 

[mrplunkey]

He's reaching out to the moderate muslims not yet infected with extremism. Your post would only make sense if he's inviting Bin Laden for coffee on the back white house terrace.......which he's not and you know he's not.

Your analogy failed. He's doing the smartest thing that any american president has done in a "very" long time......be they democrats or republicans.

I hate to break this to you, but moderate Muslims still treat their women like hell. Beatings, stonings, head-to-toe covering and second-class citizenship is the norm.

Defining Bin Laden as the epitome of extremism in the Muslim world is like defining Timothy McVeigh as the epitome of extremism in the US right-wing world. Congrats Pat Robertson and Randall Terry -- you just became moderates.

 

[redsamurai]

I hate to break this to you, but moderate Muslims still treat their women like hell. Beatings, stonings, head-to-toe covering and second-class citizenship is the norm.
.

Ummm, no.....you're really rather mistaken on this. Women really only get treated very poorly by the less educated fundamental regions in the muslim world. There's obviously still a disparity between men and women in Islam, more than I myself care for.......but I can say the same about U.S society. It wasn't that long ago that men couldn't be charged for raping their wives here. It's not "the norm".....but it does happen way more than it should. THe problem with muslim moderates is that they tolerate their extremists.........kind of like how we tolerate ours.


Have we had a woman president yet? Pakistan did.

 

[mrplunkey]

Ummm, no.....you're really rather mistaken on this.

No, I'm far from mistaken. Women in Muslim cultures continue to be second-class citizens by design, even in better-educated venues.

 

[redsamurai]

No, I'm far from mistaken. Women in Muslim cultures continue to be second-class citizens by design, even in better-educated venues.

I'm not debating whether they're second class or not, of course they are. What I contradicting is your assertion that they're getting whipped and beaten all over the place on a daily basis. In educated areas in Iran, Egypt, Jordan and whatnot.....it pretty much doesn't happen at all. Of course men like Bin Laden would love sharia law to be prevalent in all muslim countries, hell even non muslim countries. But the fact is that just like here in the states, extremism there exists mainly in the poorer uneducated regions. That's a fact. Obama isn't making any overtures to people like that. He's not validating that kind or extremist behavior just by trying to open a dialogue with those people. He's absolutely doing the correct thing. And it's about time for one our presidnent's to do so, it's long overdue.

 

[mrplunkey]

I'm not debating whether they're second class or not, of course they are. What I contradicting is your assertion that they're getting whipped and beaten all over the place on a daily basis. In educated areas in Iran, Egypt, Jordan and whatnot.....it pretty much doesn't happen at all. Of course men like Bin Laden would love sharia law to be prevalent in all muslim countries, hell even non muslim countries. But the fact is that just like here in the states, extremism there exists mainly in the poorer uneducated regions. That's a fact. Obama isn't making any overtures to people like that. He's not validating that kind or extremist behavior just by trying to open a dialogue with those people. He's absolutely doing the correct thing. And it's about time for one our presidnent's to do so, it's long overdue.

Good choice of Egypt as a example.

Statistics taken from a demographic and health survey (DHS) carried out by the USAID in 2000, which included married women aged 15-49, found that the practice in Egypt is nearly universal. Preliminary analysis shows that 97 percent of surveyed women have undergone at least one type of female circumcision procedures. This showed no change from DHS results in 1995.

According to Khattab, studies by the Ministry of Health and Population in Egypt show that the percentage of female circumcision among schoolgirls aged 10-18 has dropped to 53 percent.

Source: Female Circumcision in Egypt - IslamOnline.net - Health & Science

Their rate of female circumcision in 8-10 year old schoolgirls had dropped to 53%. Sure, over half of them still get their clits cut out. But let's focus on how progressive Egypt is toward women -- half of them get to keep them now! That's hope and change you can believe in.

 

[Bikini Mod]

Well if you're going to do a cost/benefit analysis of every life on the earth, I know a bunch of retirees that need to be put down because they no longer make economic sense.

Not what I was saying at all. All I was saying is the I don't want my tax-dollars going to pay for other peoples' kids when they see babies as a means to support themselves. I would rather my tax dollars go for birtch-control and medically safe abortions for those who haven't figured out how to use condoms.

 

[Bikini Mod]

But it appears some people devalue it more on the front end than on the back end.

Sems like a sound arguement but it isn't.

I am trying to understand why people who live in places like India and China don't have this issue.

You are very bright and clearly a free-thinker. Perhaps you can explain that to me. No sarcasm, whatsoever.