Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below Lets take bob for example. Bob is doing cardio on a reduced calorie diet. Bob is looking to drop some bf%. But, Bob is still lifting weights and training hard 4-5x per week. Bob is still taking in his 300-350grams of protein (whey for half that) each day with carbs after lifting of course. Is it possible that bob will still get stonger and harder without gaining size?
Getting Stronger While Cutting
- Thread starter dr_skier
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Lifterforlife
New member
A natural athlete on a reduced calorie diet will normally drop strength. I have done this 12 times, and only twice have really held strength. I was using tons of supplements, really loaded on Beverlys Muscle Synergy.
I believe much of it was sheer force of will also, because ironically each time I held strength, after the contest was over and I startted to eat more calories, I got weaker than pre show, and took a bit to get back to there even on pretty drastically increased calories.
This was just my experience, and all natural every time. (It may be worth mentioning here that I would never take in half of my protein in whey, diet is hard enough and whole foods are needed)
I believe much of it was sheer force of will also, because ironically each time I held strength, after the contest was over and I startted to eat more calories, I got weaker than pre show, and took a bit to get back to there even on pretty drastically increased calories.
This was just my experience, and all natural every time. (It may be worth mentioning here that I would never take in half of my protein in whey, diet is hard enough and whole foods are needed)
M
Mr.X
Guest
dr_skier said:
Anything is possible "Bob", but realistically you have not given much more about BoB's stats or diet that can be used. Is Bob 400lbs. taking in 350grams of protein, or is Bob 150lbs. taking in 350gr of protein?
Keep in mind, whey protein converts to glucose at a 50-54% rate if the body needs it, so taking in a lot of whey is not always beneficial.
Sorry mr.x, bob is 265ish 6'4'' 13%bf. Bob is me. I just want to know if while i'm doing a bunch of cardio, restricting cals, using clen and other thermos, if my lifts can still get stronger because i'm still getting my protein content in as well as my post workout nutrition. Why should strength just be determined by an excess of cals?
M
Mr.X
Guest
dr_skier said:
Caloric deficits, cardio and thermogenics are not a good formula to get stronger; however, if you train heavy and keep your protein intake up, you should keep your regular strength level -5-10%.
Lifterforlife
New member
36drew said:
This is broad but should answer both questions...exact numbers are hard to give due to the content of meals, etc.
Protein can act both as an energy source and as a nutrient... the proportion burnt to meet energy needs is increased when protein is in excess or when food is limited.
Which means simply that take in too much protein(caloric surplus), and excess can be converted, and take in too little energy nutrients and protein can and will be converted. The body is smart, and will utilize protein as needed.
****I wanted to edit this to add to simply remember, glucose is not only needed by the muscles, but liver and brain. The brain gets first dibs.
Last edited:
Lifterforlife
New member
Sorry I forgot to get to this question...was looking over old questions I answered before and found this one. Hope this answers your question and makes sense.
Amino acid oxidation rates vary substantially when food intake is restricted, as they are then markedly influenced by the availability of other fuels, i.e., glucose, free fatty acids and ketone bodies (FLATT and BLACKBURN, 1976). This reflects the fact that maintenance of ATP levels takes priority in all cells, so that any available substrates will be used to regenerate ATP from ADP and phosphate.
I assume by liquid protein you mean injested protein of any kind? The body will use whatever nutrients are availale and the easiest. This is why it is imparitive to get 1.5 gr. of protein per lb. of bodyweight on a reduced calorie diet consisting of high protein/low carbs.
When only protein is consumed, nitrogen balances are less negative than during total food deprivation. Nitrogen balance can be approached even while the energy balance remains markedly negative, but substantially higher protein intakes are required. This situation is commonly encountered during a 'protein-sparing modified fast', where, after one week of adaptation, a dose of 1.5 g protein/kg body weight/d is generally sufficient to maintain nitrogen balance (LINDNER and BLACKBURN, 1976).
Amino acid oxidation rates vary substantially when food intake is restricted, as they are then markedly influenced by the availability of other fuels, i.e., glucose, free fatty acids and ketone bodies (FLATT and BLACKBURN, 1976). This reflects the fact that maintenance of ATP levels takes priority in all cells, so that any available substrates will be used to regenerate ATP from ADP and phosphate.
I assume by liquid protein you mean injested protein of any kind? The body will use whatever nutrients are availale and the easiest. This is why it is imparitive to get 1.5 gr. of protein per lb. of bodyweight on a reduced calorie diet consisting of high protein/low carbs.
When only protein is consumed, nitrogen balances are less negative than during total food deprivation. Nitrogen balance can be approached even while the energy balance remains markedly negative, but substantially higher protein intakes are required. This situation is commonly encountered during a 'protein-sparing modified fast', where, after one week of adaptation, a dose of 1.5 g protein/kg body weight/d is generally sufficient to maintain nitrogen balance (LINDNER and BLACKBURN, 1976).
Lifterforlife
New member
It normally take approximately 2 weeks on a keto style diet for instance to "teach" the body to mobilize FFA's for energy use. This is from Cahill 1970, and still holds true.
During prolonged starvation, mobilization of endogenous fat reserves can yield enough substrates to meet almost all of the body's energy needs, thanks to the production of ketone bodies by the liver which can be used by the brain instead of glucose. However, about two weeks of starvation elapse before circulating ketone body levels rise enough for the combined availability of FFA, ß-hydroxy-butyrate and acetoacetate to allow maximal curtailment of amino acid oxidation.
During prolonged starvation, mobilization of endogenous fat reserves can yield enough substrates to meet almost all of the body's energy needs, thanks to the production of ketone bodies by the liver which can be used by the brain instead of glucose. However, about two weeks of starvation elapse before circulating ketone body levels rise enough for the combined availability of FFA, ß-hydroxy-butyrate and acetoacetate to allow maximal curtailment of amino acid oxidation.
Lifterforlife
New member
dr_skier said:
I totally agree! I do a TKD style when contest dieting, but other than that, I simply reduce caloric intake.
My posts were just in response to the question asked.
Standard type approach I use, after maintenance for a couple weeks, do a sensible reduction in calories. I perfer no more than about 250-300 per week. This should induce no trauma on the body(and doesn't) and thus keep workout flowing along.
After about 6-7 weeks, the body "catches on" so to speak. I find it good at this time to up the calories about 10% toward maintenance, take in as mentioned in one of my above posts 100 gr. minimum of carbs to help set metabolism and just order.
Then again proceed to intelligent calorie cuts. I prefer also to add cardio slowly, making it an extension of my diet and not the other way around. Too much cardio too soon leaves no alternative but cutting more calories. This way you can use calorie cutting or cardio or a combination of both to make your calorie cuts.
SgtSlaughter
New member
My diet may not be completly "by the book" but it's pretty damn close.
I hit a PR on back day with a deadlift of 405lbs x 2 reps. I'm getting stronger, but it's starting to level out now... except that back day I had.
No belt... but that was a mistake because my lower back is still sore.
I hit a PR on back day with a deadlift of 405lbs x 2 reps. I'm getting stronger, but it's starting to level out now... except that back day I had.
No belt... but that was a mistake because my lower back is still sore.
Lifterforlife
New member
sgtslaughter said:
I have done this also, but more times than not, it was "excitement/adrenaline of the cutting process that worked. Also depended on how far I took my cut. I am talking mid single digits, competition levels. Very tough to hold strength.
When I went back to increased calories, and normal dieting, I found I actually dropped strength from my cutting stage, as I no longer had the excitement factor so to speak. I have found the mind is a pretty powerful drive.
pintoca
New member
dr_skier said:
entirely possible, neural adaptation. In other words, his body will learn to recruits musclefibers to do the job at hand.
It happened to me. Key is that you keep pushing your limits bit by bit and strive for PR. It takes TIME, since you are most likely doing a low carb diet of sorts.
so, yes, he can do it, and I pretty much believe that if he's doing things in the correct way, this sort of result is inevitable
Lifterforlife
New member
BLACKDOOG said:
Sorry....my apologies.
SgtSlaughter
New member
acronym break down: ATP = Adenosien Tri Phosphate (spelling is probably off though)
very scientific yes. Well i'm not competing or anything, just yet anyways. But I do want to get my bf to 7-8% from its current 12-13%. I think i'm doing everything right here, cut cals, timed carbs (pre and post workout), arsonal of drugs lol (T3, clen some dnp, tren and winny coming)
Currently i'm on 600mg EQ/wk and 750 test.e/wk.
I'm keeping the eq where it is, bumping test to 1000mg/wk and I'm thinking about increasing arimidex to 2mg/day (comments on this plz).
Adding in for 50days will be:
Tren 100mg/day
winny 75mg/day
possibly halo for 4 weeks at the end.
Then running out my test for 2 weeks after that, and going into full pct.
Currently i'm on 600mg EQ/wk and 750 test.e/wk.
I'm keeping the eq where it is, bumping test to 1000mg/wk and I'm thinking about increasing arimidex to 2mg/day (comments on this plz).
Adding in for 50days will be:
Tren 100mg/day
winny 75mg/day
possibly halo for 4 weeks at the end.
Then running out my test for 2 weeks after that, and going into full pct.
SgtSlaughter
New member
INDEED!dr_skier said:
Post results!
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