George Spellwin's Liability with this Website

[decem]

serious question for anyone with knowledge on legal issues.. as well as an open forum for those who'd like to contribute their opinion.

we'll take wodin's racist sticky thread as an example.

let's say someone continually posts racist comments after being warned repeatedly. then let's say that a moderator, fed up with this person's actions, uses the tools and techniques provided to him and instructed on by george to post that user's location or ip address. let's go another step further and say that someone uses that information, tracks down said user and commits some type of crime in either damaging their body or property.

what is george's liability in this matter?

 

[spentagn]

good question. Depending on the answer, I'm surprised that GS hasn't commented (publicly) as to Wodin's intentions.

 

[naturally anabolic]

he is not liable for anything said as the views and opinions are not his or his employee's, first amendment rights to freedom of speech,etc. He can discourage its use and punish its ignorance but i don't think anything can come back to reflect on him

 

[spentagn]

This is a private board, and freedom of speech laws do not apply. And he could be liable. Why do you think elite mail servers are located over seas? Same thing with "secure" source forums at other sites.

 

[WODIN]

I took the action in my sticky of my own accord without requesting any consent from George. He had no forknowledge of its existance therefor he isn't liable to anyone.

As for myself. What idiots of the world may do with published information is their responsiblity and not mine.

When Tim McViegh and Co. Bombed the Oklahoma Federal building based on what is written in The Turner Diaries did the govt. Go after the author?

No because no credible causal link can be established.

Same applies here.

 

[decem]

natty.. his liability regarding what's said on the board is not at question..


i say if:

1. user A uses this internet site
2. information, which can be used to pinpoint that user's location, is posted by moderator using tools/techniques granted to him/her by george spellwin
3. user B uses that information to track down user A, then commits some form of wrongdoing, punishable by law, to his person or property onto user A


george would be liable, and, depending on the damages incurred, could be sued for a good deal of money (assuming he has money to cough up).

 

[decem]

I took the action in my sticky of my own accord without requesting any consent from George. He had no forknowledge of its existance therefor he isn't liable to anyone.

but he gave you the tools to obtain the information am i right? and in doing so, as well as in providing you the opportunity to post whatever you want unmonitored, he must therefore also assume the risk of your doing so.. right?

 

[WODIN]

Just because you give or sell someone a gun does not make you liable for how they use it.

 

[WODIN]

Further...Since I am not employed or in an agency agreement of anykind with GS then there are no ties there that can link him to my post. Mods are volunteers who do so without remuneration for the service.

 

[VicTusDeuS]

Why did you even post the information? Obviously it was for the "idiots of the world" to see so that It would scare those members. What was your intention? Did you want these idiots to do something to the offending members?

I took the action in my sticky of my own accord without requesting any consent from George. He had no forknowledge of its existance therefor he isn't liable to anyone.

As for myself. What idiots of the world may do with published information is their responsiblity and not mine.

When Tim McViegh and Co. Bombed the Oklahoma Federal building based on what is written in The Turner Diaries did the govt. Go after the author?

No because no credible causal link can be established.

Same applies here.

 

[7figureman]

This is a very good question. Kronk a moderator on this board has supposedly tracked me down using my IP address in addition to making numerous threats towards me. People who post on this board should be very concerned about the mods use of IP addresses.

 

[WODIN]

Why did you even post the information? Obviously it was for the "idiots of the world" to see so that It would scare those members. What was your intention? Did you want these idiots to do something to the offending members?

It was to let those users know that they are not invisible like they might think they are.

 

[decem]

reformatting......



woding.. you my nugga yo.. and i'm not trying to get all up on your case or anything. i'm simply presenting an opinion for the sake of argument/discussion.

i don't condone the comments/statements/posts that you addressed in that thread, and i am in favor of taking action to thwart such statements.

i just don't think that posting someone's home address on an internet forum where anonymity is assumed is favorable nor legal for that matter.

here's some more points to chew on regarding both the issue at hand, as well as your posts above.

1. anonymity is assumed (and rightfully so)

2. statements made by users are done so under that condition of anonymity

3. it would not require any employment through GS, nor any agreement between you/your agency and GS, nor any payment from him to you to tie you and him together.

4. GS and his site granted you "moderator" status.

5. GS and his site granted you the tools to dig up and track ip addresses and locations of such ip addresses.

6. GS and his site provide you the ability to post on the forum.

7. It can reasonably be assumed by GS that such occurrences as you posting a user's ip address or home address can happen.

8. It also then can be reasonably assumed that GS and his site can take action towards preventing such occurrences from taking place.

9. it can be assumed that the posting of someone's (someone who posted material/opinions under the condition of anonymity) home address/location could lead to negative repercussions onto them for their posts by people using the information a moderator/you posts.

 

[TRAITOR]

It was to let those users know that they are not invisible like they might think they are.

And what........

 

[WODIN]

1. I disagree with your basic assumption that anonymity is a given. Even before I was a mod, it was too easy to track down your basic info based on your post. Remember the calendar pic?

2. falls through because one is a false assumption.

3. - 6 are pretty much duh material yet have no real implication.

7. I don't think its reasonable to assume this.

8. I think this is only the seond time since I've been around that this has happened so it is not reasonable to assume that an action taht has occured twice in 8 years will happen.

 

[Code]

I'm sure the family of any possible victim could sue GS (and win) in a civil case.

But the prosecution would have to argue that Wodin knew the consequences of his actions. Simply because this thread exists and he is posting on it, gives the prosecution all the ammo they'd need.

 

[decem]

3. - 6 are pretty much duh material yet have no real implication.

3-6 were related to your saying that you didn't request "consent from George," that he had "no forknowledge of its existance therefor he isn't liable to anyone," that you are "not employed or in an agency agreement of anykind with GS then there are no ties there that can link him to" your post, and that mods "are volunteers who do so without remuneration for the service."

 

[WODIN]

This is the same as saying the music of Blue Oyster Cult causes people to attempt suicide.

 

[Code]

No it's not, even suggesting that is specious.

 

[The Shadow]

What is the big deal??

IMO - ip's can be tracked and traced by ANYONE with a program to do so - therefore all info obtained by such programs is to be considered public information.....that stops any and ALL liability in my view.

 

[paradox]

Kronk a moderator on this board has supposedly tracked me down using my IP address in addition to making numerous threats towards me.


lol, are you serious?

 

[7figureman]

Paradox, yes I am very serious. Do you think this is funny?

 

[Code]

I think the real issue isn't so much liability as it is an abuse of power.

Users expect a certain level of anonymity, especially on a board of this nature. Do you think someone would be more inclined to pay for this board with someone running around posting personal info?

In fact, a board of this nature should have some type of User's Bill of Rights.

I'm all for freedom of information, but there is a difference between doing some leg-work to extract an IP from a BBS than making someone's personal info Sticky.

 

[WODIN]

No it's not, even suggesting that is specious.

It's not specious it is the simple truth. It's the same argument I make in relationship to the Turner Diaries and Tim McViegh. It is simple information put into a public forum.

 

[kronk]

This is a very good question. Kronk a moderator on this board has supposedly tracked me down using my IP address in addition to making numerous threats towards me. People who post on this board should be very concerned about the mods use of IP addresses.

There is NO liability for GS or any MOD, plain and simple. I would love to argue this case in court. The liability lays on the individual that proceeded to harm the other individual. There are too many variables that can come up.

Think about it, posting an address hold no liablity. Many people have access to your address. Hell for $3, I can mail away to any DMV in the USA and get your address and driving record.

Its the criminal act that is liable.

MODS or owners of free speech boards can not be held liable. Hell, Muscle Tech tried that shit and failed hardcore.

Yes, it is VERY easy to track people down with IP's. Hell, you can do it with email addys as well. Tracking and x-refrencing ISP logs is cake, you just need to know what you are doing.

 

[paradox]

Paradox, yes I am very serious. Do you think this is funny?

I see, Im very curious as to why he tracked you down & made numerous threats against you. Enlighten me.

 

[Code]

Yes, it is VERY easy to track people down with IP's. Hell, you can do it with email addys as well. Tracking and x-refrencing ISP logs is cake, you just need to know what you are doing.

Sure it is, but I doubt anyone on this board could do it.
I'll send you and e-mail today. And by the end of the week you should be able to have a copy of my driver's license, ok?

Hell, I'd give you 500 bucks if you could even extract anything besides the IP address of the e-mail server.

 

[decem]

What is the big deal??

IMO - ip's can be tracked and traced by ANYONE with a program to do so - therefore all info obtained by such programs is to be considered public information.....that stops any and ALL liability in my view.

code.. tell me if i'm wrong but.. i'm pretty sure that a logged-in user of this site's ip address cannot be determined by any other means than through the administration tools or logs of the site itself..

so unless someone hacks their way in.. they cannot just obtain an EF user's ip address.

 

[thx9000]

Let's say I go to the Leftorium and Ned sells me a gun, and bullets. Then I go to asking around town for your location. Apu at the Quickie Mart tells me you are in the Gilded Truffle having dinner. I go there and shoot you. Who's responsible?

A) The gun
B) The bullets
C) Ned
D) Apu
E) Me

I would think that the responsibility for the action should be entirely mine as long as I don't tell Ned or Apu what I am intending to do...

Anyhow, how can you presume anonymity when you have been warned that, that prusumption is no longer valid?

IE: We're not talking about a situation where your prusumed privacy is going to be violated without warning, we're talking about a situation where you have been told that you may maintain your sense of privacy if you continue to behave within the TOS, butwill be warned and finally loose that "right" to privacy if and only if you continue to violate the TOS.

 

[kronk]

Paradox, yes I am very serious. Do you think this is funny?

I think its funny as hell! (your reaction that is)

YES, I tracked you down, becuase you are full of shit and a bad liar. I have never made any threats to you, however, I have warned you not to continue, and told you it was the last warning I would give. I have not publically posted your information, and have plans to. You are more comical to me than anything else.

 

[thx9000]

code.. tell me if i'm wrong but.. i'm pretty sure that a logged-in user of this site's ip address cannot be determined by any other means than through the administration tools or logs of the site itself..

so unless someone hacks their way in.. they cannot just obtain an EF user's ip address.

Or by having some sort of priviliged access to the route from that user's PC to this site.

 

[kronk]

I see, Im very curious as to why he tracked you down & made nurmours threats against you. Enlighten me.

Do a search for posts by sevenfigureman and also 7figureman.

Bottom line is this. I do not abuse my MOD status, I never get into arguements with members, and I have only had 3 members ever that I have had issues with due to personal emails etc. This dope is one of them.

 

[Code]

code.. tell me if i'm wrong but.. i'm pretty sure that a logged-in user of this site's ip address cannot be determined by any other means than through the administration tools or logs of the site itself..

so unless someone hacks their way in.. they cannot just obtain an EF user's ip address.

You'd need to crack the site to either log in as an admin or somehow spoof an admin's userid.

I'm not familiar with UBB or George's set-up, but I doubt highly he is using strong authentication methods.

But posting *any* personal info is an abuse of power. IMHO

 

[kronk]

Sure it is, but I doubt anyone on this board could do it.
I'll send you and e-mail today. And by the end of the week you should be able to have a copy of my driver's license, ok?

Hell, I'd give you 500 bucks if you could even extract anything besides the IP address of the e-mail server.

Code. No disrespect brother, cause I like you and have no issues. But dont assume that others cant do what you can. Not only can I do this. If I cant, I got about a dozen friends all over that can. I have been working in software for years and have contacts to tell me just about anything.

You are an intelligant bro with a great talent. I would never say otherwise, as I have respect for you.

 

[kronk]

But posting *any* personal info is an abuse of power. IMHO

IMO, I completly agree with this statement. If I have to, I will email it to the member or PM it to them, so they understand they need to quit there abuse of the board and the violation that they have made to the TOS.

 

[7figureman]

Kronk, I could buy and sell you. Trust me on that bro

 

[kronk]

Kronk, I could buy and sell you. Trust me on that bro

I wish I could live in your fantasy world. Nice try 7centman or should I say Susan.

 

[Code]

Code. No disrespect brother, cause I like you and have no issues. But dont assume that others cant do what you can. Not only can I do this. If I cant, I got about a dozen friends all over that can. I have been working in software for years and have contacts to tell me just about anything.

You are an intelligant bro with a great talent. I would never say otherwise, as I have respect for you.

I'm just here to stir up shit man.

But I would give you 500 bucks if you could tell me my address and DL#. (Mostly because I keep forgetting both of them)

 

[The Shadow]

lolololololol at Code


That's called wodin's syndrome - seek help immediately

 

[7figureman]

Kronk, who the fuck is Susan? You wish you had my life, bitch

 

[kronk]

Kronk, who the fuck is Susan? You wish you had my life, bitch

Who is Susan, lmao!!

Ah, no I dont wish I had your life. I already know what it is, and I can tell you that I wouldnt take it for the world.

Now, go and blow up your doll, and get to work.

 

[The Ranger]

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA......He forgot it on the short yellow school bus he missed this morning.....

Ranger

 

[7figureman]

Kronk, I made over $2million dollars last year, I drive a Lamborghini Diablo, I own an apartment in New York City as well as a beach house on the Connecticut shore, I have a girlfriend that you could only get in your dreams, yea you wouldn't want this life

 

[The Shadow]

Susan??!?!?!?!?!


My gospel has indeed spread.......

 

[Code]

Kronk, I made over $2million dollars last year, I drive a Lamborghini Diablo, I own an apartment in New York City as well as a beach house on the Connecticut shore, I have a girlfriend that you could only get in your dreams, yea you wouldn't want this life

Which town in CT do you own your home?

Do you have a profit and Loss statement from last year we can look at? If not, you may as well add that you're a an Ex-Navy SEAL with a 14 inch cock to your list of accomplishments.

Back it up or shut up.

 

[TheProject]

Susan??!?!?!?!?!


My gospel has indeed spread.......

yep, you can smell that crap from a mile away...

 

[kronk]

Kronk, I made over $2million dollars last year, I drive a Lamborghini Diablo, I own an apartment in New York City as well as a beach house on the Connecticut shore, I have a girlfriend that you could only get in your dreams, yea you wouldn't want this life

OK Susan, this is the last time I will respond to you as now your just getting stupid. You cant even get your story straight. Pull up all your posts on this handle and your old one and look at your own lies, you cant even tell the same lie.

Yea, I would want to give up my mid six figures and kronkette for your world! Nice try big guy!

Hmmmmmmm, lets see who the dumbass is. If I made 2 million last year, do you think I would make my handle 7figureman, so you think I would be on a free anabolic board, uhhhh no. For a guy that has been exposed, you sure keep talking shit. Tell you what, you keep doing it, but for those of US who really know the truth, we will keep your little secret.

No go fuck your blowup doll, OOPS, you sexy girlfriend that I want so bad....

 

[The Ranger]

Damn Kronk....As Jay would say to Silent Bob..... " BONG! "

Ranger

 

[7figureman]

Kronk, why the fuck would I care if this is a free anabolic board or not! I am not into roids. if you search through my past posts my problem was with that NY Muscle faggot. You were the one who stuck your nose into my business.

 

[beastboy]

If not, you may as well add that you're a an Ex-Navy SEAL with a 14 inch cock to your list of accomplishments.

Hey, quit giving out my personal data you bitch!

 

[The Ranger]

Yeah, Damn right 7figuredude....Now send Kronk and NYM nasty e-mails and bad karma...that'll show those bastards!!!!

Ranger

 

[decem]

you're a an Ex-Navy SEAL with a 14 inch cock to your list of accomplishments.
.

no.. that's AAA..

 

[Code]

Kronk, why the fuck would I care if this is a free anabolic board or not! I am not into roids. if you search through my past posts my problem was with that NY Muscle faggot. You were the one who stuck your nose into my business.

In my experience, most millionaires tend to be sesquipedalians. Whereas you seem to be hard pressed to use basic adjectives effectively.

 

[decem]

alright you two. quit bickering...


btw 7figure.. kronk's a pretty respected dude... in both my eyes and those of other board members... so if says you're a bitch and a liar.. then you're a bitch and a liar..


kronk man... i'm still with code though.. unless someone knows who they are looking for... as in their full name, ssn, user id for the isp, phone number, or nic address.. i just don't see how anyone could find the ip address to a userid of an internet forum without having access to the sites logs and tools.. either granted or hacked to..

 

[AAA]

decem your the pussy that cant back up your mouth and started this thread! MODS Give decem my address I want to see what this fucking pussy has the balls to come to my location! If not give me his!

 

[Code]

kronk man... i'm still with code though.. unless someone knows who they are looking for... as in their full name, ssn, user id for the isp, phone number, or nic address.. i just don't see how anyone could find the ip address to a userid of an internet forum without having access to the sites logs and tools.. either granted or hacked to..

You would need:
An IP address.
Access to the ISP's DHCP lease logs. (Or in the case of a static IP, their IP list)
*And* access to their billing information, to translate a username to an actual name.

My offer still stands, 500 bucks to the person who can do this.

 

[decem]

decem your the pussy that cant back up your mouth and started this thread! MODS Give decem my address I want to see this fucking pussy!

pipe down nancy....



you're mom's calling.. she says: "tiny toons are on honey.."

 

[AAA]

decem do you still have my spit cup you use to hold for me?

 

[AAA]

Code, there is no way they could track you unless you used your credit card on the site or something like that!

 

[AAA]

decem write a new book stop saying the same shit!

 

[Code]

Code, there is no way they could track you unless you used your credit card on the site or something like that!

What In All that's Fucking Holy are you talking about?

See you way off this thread before I give you the technical lashing your upstart, cunt lipped face deserves.

 

[AAA]

WoW you and decem must be buddies? All I was saying fuckstick was they could get your home address through your personal info! As far as your drivers # and shit like that you would have to sign something before the DMV would give anybody your info! So Basically I was backing your statement up fuck head!

 

[kronk]

As far as your drivers # and shit like that you would have to sign something before the DMV would give anybody your info!

Your wrong. Check with your local DMV. You can run a persons license plate for two bucks and get their address. You can get the same information from the postal service, by just having a name and a city. There are a million ways.

 

[AAA]

kronk, Why when you go for a job interview then and they want you driving record and shit like that you have to sign to say its ok? You may be right kronk, But I had to sign my ok for them to get that info!

 

[7figureman]

Kronk, check your PM Peace-7Figureman

 

[kronk]

kronk, Why when you go for a job interview then and they want you driving record and shit like that you have to sign to say its ok? You may be right kronk, But I had to sign my ok for them to get that info!

Yea, they have to request that as they are a business, and have certain legal issues that they have to deal with when it comes to employment law.

It is actually very scarey how much information that one can obtain for free or very cheap. There is a great book that I got years ago when I was in law school. Its called "You too can find anybody" do a serch on it and grab it. It will give you lots of information.

My thing is that when I went to law school, I ran my own Private Investigations firm, so I know all this shit and have a rolodex full of contacts.

Take care brother.

 

[AAA]

Kronk, You would know then my friend! AAA

 

[Code]

What In All that's Fucking Holy are you talking about?

See you way off this thread before I give you the technical lashing your upstart, cunt lipped face deserves.

I see what you are saying, and what you intended on saying. But it had little relevance as to how an average user would track someone down.

Didn't mean to break out all ugly on you, I apologize. You happened to post right after some moron walked into my office asking why pkcs11 doesn't handle key rotation.

 

[bigguns7]

Further...Since I am not employed or in an agency agreement of anykind with GS then there are no ties there that can link him to my post. Mods are volunteers who do so without remuneration for the service.

That's not exactly true, although it's a valid argument. An express agreement or contract is not necessary to prove indirect or vicarious liability. It could be argued that you have an implicit understanding with George to act as a representative on behalf of EF, and George could be held liable, or at the very least be legitimately sued because of your actions.

Even if he wins the court case, he will incur great legal expense as a result of your actions.

 

[thx9000]

You would need:
An IP address.
Access to the ISP's DHCP lease logs. (Or in the case of a static IP, their IP list)
*And* access to their billing information, to translate a username to an actual name.

My offer still stands, 500 bucks to the person who can do this.

All this assumes that you didn't send the mail through some anonymous remailer which you connected to via another anonymous service, thus creating multiple points for someone to have to compromise.

 

[AAA]

Code,not a problem at all! I get like that to! Peace AAA

 

[polarpixie]

Think about it, posting an address hold no liablity. Many people have access to your address. Hell for $3, I can mail away to any DMV in the USA and get your address and driving record.

Its the criminal act that is liable.

Yes, it is VERY easy to track people down with IP's. Hell, you can do it with email addys as well. Tracking and x-refrencing ISP logs is cake, you just need to know what you are doing.

Let's say I go to the Leftorium and Ned sells me a gun, and bullets. Then I go to asking around town for your location. Apu at the Quickie Mart tells me you are in the Gilded Truffle having dinner. I go there and shoot you. Who's responsible?

A) The gun
B) The bullets
C) Ned
D) Apu
E) Me

I would think that the responsibility for the action should be entirely mine as long as I don't tell Ned or Apu what I am intending to do...

Nothing against those who made these statements, but IMO these types of argument are a copout. There is a huge difference between CRIMINAL liability and a sense of PERSONAL responsibility/liability to others. Let's say you sold a gun to a murderer, while you may not be responsible in the eyes of the law as to who actually committed any wrongdoing, but you are the one who made the choice to go into the business of providing people easy access to guns, knowing full well just what kind of damage they can do. So, while no one's gonna lock you up for the murder, you should still feel like shit knowing that you played a role in the crime that was committed. After all, no one forced you to go into the business of selling guns, you could make your living selling pantyhose for all anyone cares.

That is the problem with alot of people these days, no one seems to understand the meaning of personal responsibility anymore. It's every man for himself. Nothing is ever your fault. Your actions never affect others, well, not if you never meant to hurt anybody or 'pulled the trigger'.

Point is, while it might be easy for anyone who has the access and/or the technical know-how to obtain mailing addresses or IP address, the person who obtains that information is the one who voluntarily make the choice as to whether or not they will make that information public and draw attention to it. Whatever consequences comes of that, I think that person needs to realize that while they may not be directly responsible for the effect, they were the one responsible for placing the cause out there, and should realize their indirect responsibility in the matter, even if it's not anything that may have violated the law.


Sorry.....that gets me riled up.

 

[AAA]

What happen to the good old days when nobody had to worry about being sued for stupied shit? Today you have people like decem, trying to hit the lottery!

 

[thx9000]

Nothing against those who made these statements, but IMO these types of argument are a copout. There is a huge difference between CRIMINAL liability and a sense of PERSONAL responsibility/liability to others. Let's say you sold a gun to a murderer, while you may not be responsible in the eyes of the law as to who actually committed any wrongdoing, but you are the one who made the choice to go into the business of providing people easy access to guns, knowing full well just what kind of damage they can do. So, while no one's gonna lock you up for the murder, you should still feel like shit knowing that you played a role in the crime that was committed. After all, no one forced you to go into the business of selling guns, you could make your living selling pantyhose for all anyone cares.

I would feel like shit that someone got murdered, but I wouldn't feel a sense of responsibility that some other sentient being exercised his free will and made the choice to commit murder. I wouldn't feel that I played *any* role in that crime. The murder has free will, can evaluate the situation and act accordingly, he is aware of the consequences of his actions and he makes the choice of which action to take. I do not play a part in his corrupt reasoning.

That is the problem with alot of people these days, no one seems to understand the meaning of personal responsibility anymore. It's every man for himself. Nothing is ever your fault. Your actions never affect others, well, not if you never meant to hurt anybody or 'pulled the trigger'.

Your second paragraph seems to contradict your first. It's my argument that one does bear a *personal* responsibility. That responsibility is *not* diffused across society simply because someone sells a tool to commit murder with. The gun salesman is not motivating murder. The murderer acted on his own free will, he bears full responsibility, the murderer would have acted corruptly regardless of the tools required. This doesn't mitigate the crime, it only puts the blame where it belongs.

Point is, while it might be easy for anyone who has the access and/or the technical know-how to obtain mailing addresses or IP address, the person who obtains that information is the one who voluntarily make the choice as to whether or not they will make that information public and draw attention to it. Whatever consequences comes of that, I think that person needs to realize that while they may not be directly responsible for the effect, they were the one responsible for placing the cause out there, and should realize their indirect responsibility in the matter, even if it's not anything that may have violated the law.


Sorry.....that gets me riled up.

In this situation, keep in mind we are actually dealing with someone that has said, "IF you continue to behave this way your IP address will be revealed." So, the choice keep the IP address permanently private remains in the hands of the person commiting the first "crime." Once that information, IP address, gets revealed then some thrid party may choose to act on it. That criminal act would be a choice made by that thrid guilty party.

Yes, let's own the responsibility of our actions but let's try to avoid holding each other responsible for what our brothers *may* be thinking.

 

[Code]

Yes, let's own the responsibility of our actions but let's try to avoid holding each other responsible for what our brothers *may* be thinking.

The ToS mentions nothing regarding Wodin's threatened actions.

A moderator shouldn't (imo) be capable of viewing IPs anyway. It is in no way relevant to their duties.

But since they can, and feel the need to publish IPs, there should be a End-User Bill of Rights.

I wonder how many mods would want their info published?

 

[thx9000]

Polarpixie, I see part of your point.

I didn't think about this before, in Wodin's case there is at least one problem. He pretty much stated what his motivation would be in sharing the IP address. The gun salesman isn't actually motivated to cause harm when he goes into business. Wodin pretty much indicated his motivation would be to cause harm.

But, still, he set the conditions in which this would/wouldn't happen. The conditions aren't unreasonable, they are that one has to abide by the TOS. People should probably just be banned for violating the TOS, but as far as I am concerned I still have reasonable control over whether or not Wodin reveals my IP. I still have a choice, and as long as that isn't taken away from me I wouldn't blame Wodin (look alliteration!) for the consequences of his actions as the result of my provocation.

 

[thx9000]

The ToS mentions nothing regarding Wodin's threatened actions.

A moderator shouldn't (imo) be capable of viewing IPs anyway. It is in no way relevant to their duties.

But since they can, and feel the need to publish IPs, there should be a End-User Bill of Rights.

I wonder how many mods would want their info published?

Nope it sure doesn't, and I am definitely going out on a limb and saying that MOD's essentially should/do have the right to set rules as conditions merit. Personally I am not sure how I feel about that scenario...

 

[Code]

Nope it sure doesn't, and I am definitely going out on a limb and saying that MOD's essentially should/do have the right to set rules as conditions merit.

Most people glorify the position of moderator. They are, especially for this board, digital janitors. They clean up dumb-ass source posts and make sure folks aren't abusing pother board members.

They can ban the user or the IP.

But to give them domain over the personal information of a user is something George should keep in check.

Not that anyone would, but I can see someone getting pissed off enough to start posting personal info of mods.

 

[CAGED whiteman]

no.. that's AAA..

AAA is a fuckin homo!!!!! but so are you decem!!!!

 

[AAA]

Cage, Dont post until your over 127lbs!!!!!!!!!

 

[thx9000]

Most people glorify the position of moderator. They are, especially for this board, digital janitors. They clean up dumb-ass source posts and make sure folks aren't abusing pother board members.

I definitely see what you are saying. But, his motivation was to protect other members. He was trying to stop abusive behavior. Personally, I think he would choose another avenue (than actually posting IP's) to correct the person if things really got out of hand. Personally, I would *hope* that he would. This thing has probably gotten blown well out of proportion considering his actual intent probably wasn't as evil as everyone is making it out to be.

 

[Code]

I definitely see what you are saying. But, his motivation was to protect other members. He was trying to stop abusive behavior. Personally, I think he would choose another avenue (than actually posting IP's) to correct the person if things really got out of hand. Personally, I would *hope* that he would. This thing has probably gotten blown well out of proportion considering his actual intent probably wasn't as evil as everyone is making it out to be.

The best intentions are very often the worst actions. Mods need to be kept in check just like end-users. Sadly, that doesn't happen here.

But yeah, this is blow a bit out of proportion. But to be honest, I would go to greater lengths to protect my personal info. It wouldn't be in a silly thread though.

 

[polarpixie]

Polarpixie, I see part of your point.

I didn't think about this before, in Wodin's case there is at least one problem. He pretty much stated what his motivation would be in sharing the IP address. The gun salesman isn't actually motivated to cause harm when he goes into business. Wodin pretty much indicated his motivation would be to cause harm.

But, still, he set the conditions in which this would/wouldn't happen. The conditions aren't unreasonable, they are that one has to abide by the TOS. People should probably just be banned for violating the TOS, but as far as I am concerned I still have reasonable control over whether or not Wodin reveals my IP. I still have a choice, and as long as that isn't taken away from me I wouldn't blame Wodin (look alliteration!) for the consequences of his actions as the result of my provocation.

Obviously this isn't a black & white issue, the 'guns' example may be a bad example for this specific situation (although depending on the situation, I still think to a small degree the seller of the gun is an 'accessory' in a sense each time a gun that he sells commits a crime. anyhow, that is a different argument.)

The first part of this statement you made is my whole point:

Yes, let's own the responsibility of our actions but let's try to avoid holding each other responsible for what our brothers *may* be thinking.

In this case, WODIN is saying that whatever results from him posting someone's city and state would not be his fault at all. I'm just saying I think that's a copout because in this case, IF, in the unlikely event, that something did happen, he would have played the role of the instigator, I sincerely doubt that he actually wishes any actual physical harm on those people, but it *could* happen as a direct result of him posting private information and putting the limelight on those individuals. This is not the same thing as blaming the author of Turner Diaries for the crimes of Tim McVeigh or blaming musicians who sing songs about suicide for teenage suicides, this is a lot more specific and localized than that. It doesn't really matter anyway since I doubt there is really anything to worry about since it's not like he posted their mailing address, and I don't think those city/states are very reliable. I just think that maybe he didn't thoroughly think about what some psycho f*khead might potentially do as a result of *WODIN's* actions.

Anyway, let's not get over our heads here, I think that a more realistic result from something like this is what some little prick might do to get back at WODIN!

 

[polarpixie]

This thing has probably gotten blown well out of proportion considering his actual intent probably wasn't as evil as everyone is making it out to be.

Are you kidding me??? OUT OF PROPORTION?? I think WODIN just might be the very devil himself!!!!

MUHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!!! LOL.




I wonder who will take that comment seriously?

 

[The Ranger]

The best intentions are very often the worst actions. Mods need to be kept in check just like end-users. Sadly, that doesn't happen here.

But yeah, this is blow a bit out of proportion. But to be honest, I would go to greater lengths to protect my personal info. It wouldn't be in a silly thread though.

This is not true, we have had a few Mods demoted, and even banned for their actions....we are in check with each other, and believe me, if you over step the bounds, you hear about it very quickly.

Ranger

 

[Burning_Inside]

natty.. his liability regarding what's said on the board is not at question..


i say if:

1. user A uses this internet site
2. information, which can be used to pinpoint that user's location, is posted by moderator using tools/techniques granted to him/her by george spellwin
3. user B uses that information to track down user A, then commits some form of wrongdoing, punishable by law, to his person or property onto user A


george would be liable, and, depending on the damages incurred, could be sued for a good deal of money (assuming he has money to cough up).

I doubt anything short of a confession would provide enough proof that tracking an ip address off a net messageboard was the initial piece if info that lead someone to find another and do harm to them.

Plus youd have to be a really good hacker to hack their isp's servers and gain personal info on the certain ip. it's not impossible, but pretty close unless youre a hack guru.

 

[WODIN]

Are you kidding me??? OUT OF PROPORTION?? I think WODIN just might be the very devil himself!!!!

MUHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!!! LOL.




I wonder who will take that comment seriously?

You give me too much credit..really I wouldn't dream of stepping on Bigsatan's turf.