Gay men face horrors at the hands of the Elitefitness Message Board and the moderators won't save them

[nangiggles]

Isn't a fag a cigarette in UK? #workaround

 

[Lestat]

I'm not defending the right to use a word I don't use or rarely use. I think I've used it less than I can count on one hand, and never referencing a homosexual.

Who does it hurt? When someone here is saying the word fgt as an insult to a non homosexual who are they insulting? They aren't insulting homosexuals.

From wiki:

The word faggot has been used in English since the late 16th century as an abusive term for women, particularly old women,[9] and reference to homosexuality may derive from this,[8][10] as female terms are often used with reference to homosexual or effeminate men (cf. nancy, sissy, queen).

Through ethnographic research in a high school setting, CJ Pascoe examines how American high school boys use the term fag. Pascoe's work suggests that boys in high school use the fag epithet as a way to assert their own masculinity, by claiming that another boy is less masculine; this, in their eyes, makes him a fag, and its usage suggests that it is less about sexual orientation and more about gender. One-third of the boys in Pascoe's study claimed that they would not call a homosexual peer a fag; fag is used in this setting as a form of gender policing, in which boys ridicule others who fail at masculinity, heterosexual prowess, or strength. Because boys do not want to be labeled a fag, they hurl the insult at another person. The fag identity does not constitute a static identity attached to the boy receiving the insult. Rather, fag is a fluid identity that boys strive to avoid, often by naming another as the fag. As Pascoe asserts, "[the fag identity] is fluid enough that boys police their behaviors out of fear of having the fag identity permanently adhere and definitive enough so that boys recognize a fag behavior and strive to avoid it".


^ That is how the word is used here. The juvenile, high school slang that is not about sexual orientation, but about gender.

There is a long history of using both fag and faggot in popular culture, usually to denigrate lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people. Rob Epstein and Jeffrey Friedman's 1995 documentary The Celluloid Closet, based on Vito Russo's book of the same name notes the use of fag and faggot throughout Hollywood film history.[16] The Think Before You Speak (campaign) has sought to stop fag and gay being used as generic insults.[17]

^ that is not how the word is used here. This is the hurtful use. Even then, it's use still goes back to meaning feminine or not like a man, therefore supposably a huge insult.

Do you understand the difference and the difference with what and who is actually being insulted here on this site and why I don't care if its' not being directly used to a homosexual as an insult to his sexual orientation but as an insult to a heterosexual man? Why I don't care about fgt used towards a heterosexual man because other words like bitch and pussy are widely used as insults towards men and no one said anything. Because when not directed at them personally it's use isn't about homosexuality. It's about gender. I honestly don't think it's all that insulting, personally but you seem to be horrified by the what the word means. God forbid.

I don't care if they're offended by the use of the word as a generic insult to someone that isn't them. I care even less that you're telling me I should care. Tough toenails, gays, welcome to the club!

I had this same conversation with someone once... my grandfather, who was born in georgia and lived and died in north carolina used the N word... the real N word, not the derivative you hear in rap music, very casually, and he argued until his death that it was not offensive and that he knows black people who don't even mind!

There was no changing his mind and I don't hold out any hope that I could change your's. You use whatever words you are comfortable with, I am not here to police you, I started a thread to talk about how we could do things a little better here. I had good intentions.. really just to create a more welcoming place here in C&C.. I don't think we need to ban insults, name calling, and all around rudeness, that reflects some of the people here, I simply think we do not need to use derogatory terms for homosexuals as a matter of common practice. Its really that simple. I know there are worse things to say and to do to gay people. I know there are many different uses for the word faggot, including an english term for a cigarette.. I have no problem with that at all, I have an English friend who was asked me before "If I had a spare fag" and there is ZERO wrong with that.

Please feel free to keep saying it if you wish. I know I am not perfect and can do better.

Here are some thoughts that match my own as well.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/krystieyand...out-why-you-shouldnt-use-offensive#.ei1gRZYEm

 

[caligirl85]

I usually avoid these types of discussions but I'm going to weigh in on this one because I think we're moving into the "beating a dead horse" territory.

From the outside looking in, it doesn't look great. We probably can do better. Maybe we should. We certainly have had more actual discussion here lately and I think that's great. It's great to discuss this even.

The thing some need to remember is for a very long time, it's only been a few of us here. Things change. The culture of the room changed. Rightly or wrongly, certain jokes or phrases were used. It's like your parents moving in with you and telling you you're doing it wrong, even though from where you stand, you're probably doing just fine. It's never a bad thing to take a step back and re-evaluate.

The point has been made. People will change or they won't. IMHO

 

[wootoom]

interesting thread....
i think its a bit offensive personally...

We don't give a fuck what you think

 

[Lestat]

I usually avoid these types of discussions but I'm going to weigh in on this one because I think we're moving into the "beating a dead horse" territory.

From the outside looking in, it doesn't look great. We probably can do better. Maybe we should. We certainly have had more actual discussion here lately and I think that's great. It's great to discuss this even.

The thing some need to remember is for a very long time, it's only been a few of us here. Things change. The culture of the room changed. Rightly or wrongly, certain jokes or phrases were used. It's like your parents moving in with you and telling you you're doing it wrong, even though from where you stand, you're probably doing just fine. It's never a bad thing to take a step back and re-evaluate.

The point has been made. People will change or they won't. IMHO

I love your practical common sense approach!

Very refreshing.

I was here for a long time, very active, very involved.

I was away.

I come back from time to time.

When I come back, I noticed some of the things you touched upon.

I also, like most, have grown a bit, changed some opinions and attitudes, and now see things a little bit differently.

I don't mean to be the dad coming in and saying we are all wrong, but I love that analogy.

I too am flawed and say shit that I shouldn't, I'll be the first to say, I can do better!

Thank you caligirl!

 

[caligirl85]

I love your practical common sense approach!

Very refreshing.

I was here for a long time, very active, very involved.

I was away.

I come back from time to time.

When I come back, I noticed some of the things you touched upon.

I also, like most, have grown a bit, changed some opinions and attitudes, and now see things a little bit differently.

I don't mean to be the dad coming in and saying we are all wrong, but I love that analogy.

I too am flawed and say shit that I shouldn't, I'll be the first to say, I can do better!

Thank you caligirl!

I really try to go by the KISS method of living....keep it simple stupid..maybe minus the stupid part, although there was that one time! LOL if only it were one.

I do think the room as a whole has deteriorated and conversation was pretty limited to a few catch phrases. It ebbs and flows and it will probably never be those glory days we hear about. It's been nice to have some real discussion here lately. Maybe that would encourage more to participate. If I start to take this room personally, I know I need to take a break.

We are all flawed...no judgement here.

 

[Lestat]

I really try to go by the KISS method of living....keep it simple stupid..maybe minus the stupid part, although there was that one time! LOL if only it were one.

I do think the room as a whole has deteriorated and conversation was pretty limited to a few catch phrases. It ebbs and flows and it will probably never be those glory days we hear about. It's been nice to have some real discussion here lately. Maybe that would encourage more to participate. If I start to take this room personally, I know I need to take a break.

We are all flawed...no judgement here.

I came upon this place in what was arguably the prime, or the first start of a slight decline. In general, internet message boards were huge at the time and a source of targeted advertising. I loved how diverse things were. I felt like I learned something new almost every day. I wasted a lot of time here, got into petty argument, shared too much, asked too many questions (still do that), I even found ways to do some work with the site as well.

Over time people came and went and it was tough on me. Some of the people who drew me to this site were gone for good and I kept hoping and wishing they would come back (a couple shout outs to High Intensity, Big Buck, HuckleberryFinaplex, smallmovesal, Becoming, and many more people who I can't even remember their handles it has been so long).

I met a ton of people and had fun with most of them.

Then the trolls came, I am not sure if I just got more sensitive, or if the discourse changed, but instead of people coming here to learn, laugh, and have fun, you had people here who's sole purpose seem to antagonize others, to tear people down, to be negative in every single post, to pretend they were something they were not, to lie, to screw people over in real life. I am guessing these people were here all along, but we had so many others who brought something positive to the table that you didn't really notice it. There were tons of moderators and the true "trolls" got reigned in pretty quickly. Many of them would prop up side boards or go to other competing boards.. I wonder if Iron Trybe is still around... or even Ster09ido0logy (you used to not be able to spell that out on this board without it getting masked).

Does AAP ever post anymore? That bro taught me a lot. Mattheskywalekr as well. There are probably at least 100 good bros here that I miss (I include women in that as well although as we all know, they are a small minority here, but thank god that we have some!)

Anyway not sure where I was going with that, just a trip down memory lane.

 

[caligirl85]

Then the trolls came, I am not sure if I just got more sensitive, or if the discourse changed,

This makes me think you work in higher education...not the bar scene.

 

[Lestat]

This makes me think you work in higher education...not the bar seen.

I've never worked in the bar scene, I also do not work in higher education, but I have a graduate degree.

 

[caligirl85]

I've never worked in the bar scene, I also do not work in higher education, but I have a graduate degree.

Discourse is very much a grad school word! lol