gah! my neck got owned

[casualbb]

Did systema yesterday, we were practicing takedown defense. Rather than sprawling though, it was letting the guy take you down, moving with him, and then converting his energy into a roll and reversal.

The instructor had me participate in a demonstration, and I go for a typical double-leg. He of course rolls me adeptly with the legs, but somehow ends up with his entire bodyweight pushing my neck towards my chest. I heard this sick series of cracks and then my neck starts royally hurting. I went on with practice okay, and it seemed to get better over the course of the day. NOw the next morning however I'm dying. Does this sound like something serious? I think for now i will wait a couple more days and if the pain doesn't go away maybe get an x-ray or something.

 

[MikeMartial]

Does this sound like something serious? I think for now i will wait a couple more days and if the pain doesn't go away maybe get an x-ray or something.

With that kind of mechanism of injury, and going by your description, I'd seriously consider getting yourself to an ER. If you are in pain currently, and decribe how the injury happened, no ER doc in his right mind would exclude an X-ray

I don't want to freak you out, but there's a chance for an unstable fracture to be present---there's a greater chance with hyperextension, but it can happen with hyperflexion too----think diving injuries.

Get it checked out ASAP.

 

[Kane Fan]

sounds like the instructor was either an asshole or incompetent...
can't help you with what kind of injury it is or isn't tho you need a doctor for that

 

[Yarg!]

yeah man, the instructor shouldnt pull off shit like this.

 

[belfort]

i injured my neck also while training takedowns, similar to you i was able to finish off the day, but later on it started feeling very uncomfortable not too much pain but i knew something was off. got an xray and had a few compressed discs so i had to take a few months off. the doc said that it would heal itsself and be stronger then ever, but it took a while. took about 3 months off lifting and then it was fine in the weight room, been bout 8 months now since it happened and i havent been back to training yet, even though i have grappled with some friends in the past few months i think i'm ready to get back at it. i wouldnt mess around with a neck injury man i'll tell you i didnt think mine was bad but it took a lil while to improve. been like 3 days now hit up that xray if its still bothering you. let us know how it goes.

 

[casualbb]

due to some insurance bull I can't see anybody til june 1st. But I'm definitely gonna do it and i'll let ya know what happens.

 

[Judo Tom]

do you have any numbness in your arms at all?

can you rotate your neck?

how is your posture? look in the mirror and see how your head is lined up with the rest of your body. your head should be above your shoulders not sticking out like a chicken and it shouldnt be tilted and your nose should be inline with your belly button.

for now i would eat advil and see what the doc says.. hopefuly its not too bad but you want to check.. if you dont see someone right away TAKE IT EASY on the matt

good luck!!!

 

[casualbb]

do you have any numbness in your arms at all?

can you rotate your neck?

how is your posture?

no,
to an extent,
good when standing poor when sitting.

 

[Judo Tom]

is it getting any better?

even small improvements now would be a pretty good sign.

did you check how your neck is aligned now.. with the rest of your body? if it is way out of line you could start to do some very light exercising/stretching to help bring it back in line

the fact you have no numbness is a very good sign IMO

 

[PICK3]

I hate bully instructors/coaches. Our wrestling coach who out weighed us by about a ton use to fuck us up all the time.

Fucking asshole!

 

[shamrock11]

Man that sucks. Since he was an instructor you would think he would know how much pressure to use and not to use to keep you from getting injured. Sounds like he is a show off.

 

[casualbb]

It wasn't even like that. Systema has no technique at all, everything is invented on the fly. It just happened that I went at him in a certain way, and he responded in a certain way, and ended up on top of my neck.

systema people, the more advanced usually tend to be very ego-less. Because they know they can beat the crap out of everybody, there's no need to prove it.

 

[Kane Fan]

beat the crap out of everybody huh?
your starting to sound like a BJJ newb..
having x belt in x style is no garountee that you can defeat Opponent A or B...
a fight is going to go how a fight is going to go, no matter what "our style is a godsend and everybody else's isn't" line the people invovled have been fed

 

[Yarg!]

why do they have to roll during TKD? sprawling is far easier, less motion required, quicker, and thus easier to execute and memorize. no trying to talk shit, but is there a reason they chose this technique over the sprawl?

 

[casualbb]

sprawl is against the systema principle of relaxation, it's using muscular strength to oppose someone's motion. SOmeone trying to tackle you or take you down it giving you a lot of energy. They're not expecting you to just go limp and convert the momentum into a reversal.

oh and kane, the "beat up everybody" comment was supposed to be kind of cheeky although some of the top systema guys are pretty untouchable (this guy is one of them)

 

[Kane Fan]

why do they have to roll during TKD? sprawling is far easier, less motion required, quicker, and thus easier to execute and memorize. no trying to talk shit, but is there a reason they chose this technique over the sprawl?

sprawl isn't the answer for every takedown
if you arn't quick enough with your sprawl you can try a roll after they have hooked your legs
etc

 

[Kane Fan]

most top guys are difficult to deal with
I'll have to see about sparring with some Systema people at some point
I already know a good BJJ place when I am ready

 

[Judo Tom]

did the reversal look anything like this?

http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/tawaragaeshi.htm

 

[casualbb]

did the reversal look anything like this?

http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/tawaragaeshi.htm

in a sense.

From what I gather in that picture you're pulling that guy into a scramble situation.

Imagine someone tackling somebody else (hillbilly tackle), maybe around the midsection. The other guy, instead of tensing up or moving to resist the tackle, let's himself go down and then puts the energy into a roll, ending up escaped from the other guy or on top of him.

 

[casualbb]

got my neck diagnosed -- pulled vertebral ligaments

He did a bunch of stuff to test my reflexes and touch sensitivity, all normal. I asked, could it be a crack vertebrae or slipped disk, he says "not likely, such injuries are almost always accompanied by nerve impingement, resulting in tingling limbs, loss of sensation, etc."

so that's good news. I'd say i'll be more careful in the future but systema is so chaotic that it's really hard to predict anything

 

[gjohnson5]

Did systema yesterday, we were practicing takedown defense. Rather than sprawling though, it was letting the guy take you down, moving with him, and then converting his energy into a roll and reversal.

The instructor had me participate in a demonstration, and I go for a typical double-leg. He of course rolls me adeptly with the legs, but somehow ends up with his entire bodyweight pushing my neck towards my chest. I heard this sick series of cracks and then my neck starts royally hurting. I went on with practice okay, and it seemed to get better over the course of the day. NOw the next morning however I'm dying. Does this sound like something serious? I think for now i will wait a couple more days and if the pain doesn't go away maybe get an x-ray or something.

Now you know who NOT to use as a sparring partner