First injection

[ariel]

Hey Guys,

Alright, so I asked questions and read the boards for 3 months. Have a low test level, and am convinced that my test cream is not going to be the godsend soloution I thought it may be. Always knew even at the beginning that when my training progressed over a 4-5 year timespand that I would use gear...Never knew I would be low naturally though. Also, believed my past femal trainers that said they were natural, only to find out years down the road they were not, and wondered why I always looked worse during heavy training and dieting with them...Not to take anything away from gear users, but I busted my ass just as hard and watched my dieted 10xs as hard only to be rewared very little. I was quite devestated, as while as it has been pointed out on these boards before...These people looked good, but not great, and probably decided to use without the back bone of good training and dieting habits.


This evening I injected 30mg of test..It was a mixture, which I don't know much about, but I figured that the dose was low enough to not have to fret..

It is mexican and had cyp, prop, and EQ, in it, of course it was in spanish...Called TEST 400. I plan on doing another 30-50mg injection in the next 14 days and will decide more on the dosage and timing depending on the info I get here. My friend said 50mg every 10 days, but he is a guy and I am not sure about this mixture of test so I told him NO WAY, we need to go lower and longer until I see if sides come on, or if anyone here redflags me because it has a mix. The cycle is free, so I can't be to picky. But I won't let him jack me up to where there is no going back...

Thoughts on this, opinions.. experiances????.Thanks all
ariel

 

[Temple]

I am assuming you are talking about Denkall T400. It doesn't have EQ in it, it is a blend of enenthate, cyp, and prop. How did you dose 30mg when it is 400mg/cc? If you did 1/10 cc then you took
18.6 mg enenthate
18.7mg cyp
2.5mg prop
with the half life variances I haven't got a clue what to tell you and I don't know how the cream is going to effect your sides or your dosing if at all. Sounds like you are set on doing this no matter what the best advice of the board is. I have never heard of even the top level women BB on this board using T400 let alone someone using it first time out the gate.....

 

[fitmedic]

ariel, pm real gains.. he can tell you anything you wanna know.

 

[Realgains]

I am assuming you are talking about Denkall T400. It doesn't have EQ in it, it is a blend of enenthate, cyp, and prop. How did you dose 30mg when it is 400mg/cc? If you did 1/10 cc then you took
18.6 mg enenthate
18.7mg cyp
2.5mg prop
with the half life variances I haven't got a clue what to tell you and I don't know how the cream is going to effect your sides or your dosing if at all. Sounds like you are set on doing this no matter what the best advice of the board is. I have never heard of even the top level women BB on this board using T400 let alone someone using it first time out the gate.....

Testosterone can be okay to use for a first time if the dose is low.
Test is not the big evil hormone that many ladies think it is. In fact test is made in the female body by the ovaries and adrenal glands so it is NOT a foreign hormone to the female body. I can be used safely if you have a good understanding of androgens and dosing.

One trick is to always use the fast acting and clearing prop ester. If you use the 400 you will not be able to bail out of a cycle if sides get bad since a couple of the esters in the mix make the test hang around a long time.

The other trick is to start very low and never go too high. Since testosterone is the second most androgenic hormone out there, second behind tren, one needs to be careful with the dose. That said androgenic sides are more a result of dose and NOT hormone choice. I know of ladies that have used very mild androgens like anavar and primo and have gotten very bad sides simply because they took too much. For example.....100 of primo per week is at least as androgenic as 40 of test per week. Many ladies would gladly do 100 of primo per week but are afraid of 40 of test.

I would not go over 50mg of prop per week injected every other day in tiny amounts with a slin syringe. You may even want to do 30 or 40 for starters.

You would get good results from milder androgens too and with less risk. Good choices include nandrolone in the phenylprop ester, anavar, primo or anavar at no more than 50-70 mg per week for starters.

FYI the really serious female lifters, including at least one on this board, use 200 of test per week and 200 of nandrolone per week!!! Needless to say they all sound like men, amoungst other things, but thats okay for them ...each to his own.

As a side.....no other hormone will cause an increase in libido like testosterone so enjoy. he he he
Your clit will grow FOR SURE eeven on 30 per week but usually only to the size of a pencil eraser. When you go off you will loose most of this size in a couple months providing you stay off steroids and testosterone during this time.

If your voice starts to get hoarse then stop right away of your voice tone will drop.

You MAY notice a little extra facail hair growth on the upper lip where you already have some hair and the under side of the chin (fine hairs) but this can happen with any hormone used at bodybuilding doses including anavar.


I hope my pm helps more.

RG

 

[Realgains]

If the test injections are only to kick start the libido while on test gel then 50 mg for a few weeks will no harm at all and will help kick start things.
In order to see any real increase in libido one needs to get the test level up into the high normal range usually.

My wife is on test replacement and our endochrinologist says that test gel at 2.5-5mg per day is plenty although at this dose time is needed to see results in libido.
You don't want to get the hormone level up beyond high normal unless you are looking for fast muscle gains. If the level is above high normal you will experience adrogenic sides in time and it will mess with your lipid profile too and usually quite badly at that.

The problem with test injections for hormone is that it is hard to maintain test levels in the normal range unless you do very frequent injections, to avoid spiking, and use very low doses.
For test replacement therapy using an injection I would choose a long acting ester like cyp and inject at least twice per week and never more than 20 mg per week. Be sure to get your blood level checked after a few weeks of this.

Some docs think that the esters in test injections are not healthy for long term use.

Use an insulin syringe for dosing accuracy even if you are using test for bodybuilding reasons . You can use a 25 guage 1.5 inch pin but I like to use a 27 1.5 inch pin or even 30 gauge pin. The slin syringe has good pushing power so any oil will go through a 30 gauge.

You can use the half inch pin that comes with a slin syringe as it is usually a 27 but you need to inject into the mid lateral thigh and or lateral deltoid unless your upper outer glutes are REALLTY lean.
You can inject in the traps too and even the biceps or triceps since your volume will be very low just be sure to draw back well since these areas have a lot of veins. Since you are new to the game I would recommend mid lateral thigh, upper outer glutes and side delts.


RG

 

[Temple]

RG - from her pm we sorted out that she did roughly 50mg of the T400 or that is what the guy that did it told her. Considering it is a blend and the different half lifes combined with the cream is this about right or is it too much and how does one schedule dosing with this product???

 

[Realgains]

RG - from her pm we sorted out that she did roughly 50mg of the T400 or that is what the guy that did it told her. Considering it is a blend and the different half lifes combined with the cream is this about right or is it too much and how does one schedule dosing with this product???

50 mg/ week of any injection is way too much for test replacement reasons but will be okay for a few weeks for a kick.

With this blend I would recommend 20 mg per week injecting at least twice per week and maybe more often since it has prop in the mix. One needs to follow up with blood work to see if this dose is okay and that one is not above high normal.

For test replacement reasons it is best to stick with cyp or enanthate with biweekly injections and no more than 20mg per week.

If using test for muscle gaining reasons. If you use test for muscle building then you should stick to prop ang inject every other day at about 50mg per week. Prop is important since if bad sides come on you can bail out of a cycle with little problem(usually) You may need more depending on what your blood work says but a doubt it...in fact you may need less.

The natural test gels or creams are the best IMHO for replacement therapy as they don't cause spikes in hormone levels and they usually don't cause ones test levels to go above high normal at most unless you rub on a shit load daily.

RG


RG

 

[Realgains]

Good point Spatts....sometimes I forget that many are very new to the game.

I like to explain esters in a very simple way for starters ...think of esters as delaying the release of the steroid or testosterone....like time release vitimans.... but only over days and not hours.

test suspension has no ester so it is assimilated very quickly and thus daily injections are needed. Test cypionate and enanthate allow for a delay in steroid or testosterone release of up to two weeks(half life of about 6 days) The deconate ester delays the release even longer as do other esters. Now prop has a half life of about 1.5 days so it is the ideal ester for a female to use no matter what the hormone choice if bodybuilding is the goal. Phenylprop has a half life of about 2 days so it too is a good choice for muscle building doses.
As I have said these quick acting esters will allow one to bail out of a bodybuilding cycle is bad sides come on.

RG

 

[ariel]

I don't plan on doing another injection for about 14 days. If at all. I got really worried, because my guy was very sure of himself and I felt I asked the right questions. I don't understand syringe size and such. I know he told me it was a slin syringe. Let me just post what I wrote to spatts.

Temple must have thought I was talking about a DIFFERENT size syringe. NOW, I don't remember what the others look like, but I have injected deca in a larger syringe(what are these syringes referred to??) in some guys. Here is what I said, and exactly what my trainer told me.

A slin syringe, and pulled to .3 IU. He even showed me the dose HE would take which would be 2 full syringes...I had a .4 of one if I am lucky.

Now, here was my thinking and SPatts kinda aimed towards you here. Since I have A VERY LOW TEST anyways, even if I got say 50 maybe even higher SINGLE DOSE HERE, that my OWN test is not going to have to first be shut off/ and/or competing and adding to the incoming and that, I had not as much overlap as let's say, YOU spatts, who has a very high natural test level..I am sure you would have sides come on quicker than say ME who would need an extra kick even to jump to normal.. Everyone, if I am not understanding this right please chime in.

I understand the half lives to some degree. Now, considering I took one shot here, and I am believing what my partner gave me, because it was pretty small needle, and he pulled it to the 3 which was not very much, you are saying I am actually gonna put on SIZE AND WATER?? I thought 2 injections this month, dose my test cream at 1 to 1.5ml a day an in Jan get the blood test and inform the doc that I jumped up the dosage with some esters.

I was told that the longest acting test in the T400 was going to be out the body in about 10 days. COuld I expect ANYTHING other than a boost with this? I am looking for that BOOST that realgains talked about in his threads about his wife and the low test levels. I did not want to have to wait out the saturation period which could be months with my script cream. I have been waiting a year A LEAST before dragging my butt to the DOC with this. Now that I know the problem, I would like to do whatever could be done to normalize as quickly as possible.

Realgains even mentioned in some old post to spatts that shorter cycles are better when dealing with sides. That 200mgs ONE TIME would boost a women, but not do much in the way of sides..But that 200mgs every 10 days for 4-6 weeks are gonna mess that lady up. I was thinking I was starting with low test anyway, and that even if this dose was HIGHER than what one would reccommend(although i don't think it was) that I really did not have much to loose. How much could be expected to happen let's say if this guy gave me 1full cc. I mean am I gonna go horse and grow a penis in 10days???

What is possible as far as effects let's say if a lady came on here and said Yeah I took 1cc of T400, and you guys screamed STOP RIGHT NOW...Is she gonna become a man in a week? Serious, honest question, sorry if it is stupid.

I was having a hearattack ealier, because I did feel I was under good guidance...I have looked through these boards and others FOR MONTHS, but think elite has some of the best info...I really did not have the slin and other syringe sizes and the understanding of the conversions, but I asked and the person who offered the info also was the one with the syringe.

You guys are great, and I feel pretty peaceful, I would not mind doing some personal records, or at least getting some training intensity for the next couple of weeks, but no I don't want the water, I just want the well being and the bit of strenght. I also read on here that test can be a cutting drug and I don't intend to eat like I am on a bulk...I am staying with around 2000 cals a day. maybe a little maybe alittle less some days.

 

[Temple]

I'm still confused about how much he gave you. When you told me he gave you 1/2" of fluid in a syringe larger than a fat pencil I was a little shook up. So, it was an insulin syringe and you told me he gave you 50mg of T400 but you also say he gave you 3 maybe 4 IU. I am sure that there are 100 IU per cc so that would mean you took between 12 and 14mg. So I don't know how much you took or what the sides might be.
If waiting for the cream to work is not acceptable to you have you considered taking your test results to another doctor and asking about androgel? My doctor gave me androgel simply by my requesting it and he is pretty conservative. Of course I have that old lady thing going on ...

 

[ariel]

Temple,

I think realgains pointed out that my dose was not more than 50mg. I did ask here what if any sides can be seen at a one shot dose even if it is higher. Does anyone know of a site where I can look at pics of a syringe and maybe learn about these conversions???? Maybe post a pic or a link so that I can be more accurate? It is a fact that I am taking a risk, but with gear being illegal sometimes we have to rely on info that may not always be correct, but I guess we deal with it. I have tried and am trying to learn and feel pretty confident, I did'nt know though the differnce with the dosage, I thought it was all the same and months of reading nobody ever said anything about the diffeernet conversions.

I spoke with my doc and she said she likes to take things real slow and wait fo the blood tests to see if it is working. With the doctors visits the whole slew of blood test and the scripts that I got my bill came out to be 500 dollars.. I don't have any health insurance at this time. Of course money should not be to big of a problem or an object when it comes to health. Realgains wife takes a compounded test cream, different than the androgel, just like me. I felt as per his ideas the shot or 2 of test to boost me the cream should not let me fall below normal, just would take awhile to get me TO normal.

Realgains, Does your wife get her script filled at Prescription Pharmacy Labs or soemthing like that in Arizona?

ariel

 

[Realgains]

ariel.....she gets the stuff from a compounding pharmacy as that is the only place that you can get it.

Most decent sized cities have compounding pharmacies and since that big scare about synthetic hormone use causing all sorts of health problems for women the compounding pharmacies have really taken off.
These guys have been saying for years that natural source hormone replacement therapy is the only way to go and that taking 17 different estrogens form a pregnant horses uterus(Premeran) is not a good idea.

RG

 

[ariel]

Realgains,

My doctor only deals with the pharmacy in Arizona Prescription lab Pharmacy. I had read that very few pharmacists really know how to make a highly absorbable test cream.

My dose of test cream was 1ml a day. Like fit fossil, but I doubled it and saw some improvemtn...First in my blood sugar, I don't know why, but it stopped crashing so much, the first week. I think test helps with mental stability and drive+stamina and I did see a slight increase, but I was done with my bottle in 2 weeks and I have a limit on how much I am allowed. Basicly I am goign to the type of doctor that wants to take the easiest, slowest route..Why DOUBLE the dose when a single one MIGHT show results...I don't think she will say oh yeah go ahead and take 3mg or whatever a day. She will say take 1 and see, come back in 3 months and then we try more. So I am looking at another 8-9months here, to even get to what realgains(and his educated understanding) of what it takes to see some real results.

I will say without a doubt that the test script alone lifted a lot of what I THOUGHT was depression. I was so weepy, I swear I cried every single day. After one week I could I could handle things a tad better and things were not overwhelming. I had a postive outlook after about 12 days on the test. Maybe it was slightly mental that I would continue to feel better, but it helped either way.

OK, is it normal to have a sore ass after an injection? There is no abcess, but how long does one take to develop? I really FEEL the tender spot, and a bit of tightness, but can see nothing through the skin...NORMAL.

Fitfossil, although you and I have discussed the difference between us...Age for one, do you ever find yourself more weepy than usual? Like I said before my doc said estrogen was the only thing I was making enough of.

ariel

 

[Realgains]

Most large cities have "compounding pharmacies" you just need to look them up but if you are getting the stuff from a regular pharmacy then great.

My wife takes 2,5 mg per day in a soft white gel. It is made up by the compounding pharmacist and then put into 3cc syringes for dosing accuracy......,1ml =2.5mg. one or 2 mg per day may be just fine for you altjhough some have gone as high as 5mg per day. You can also increase the dose on days that you feel are going to be mentally or physically demanding...thats okay.

Low test can certainly result in mood swings and depression as well as low stamina both physically and mentally...these are proven facts for sure.


Injections will normally hurt a little the next day and for a day or two after that....don't worry about it. If the site gets really sore and red and warm then you have an injection but that is pretty rare.



RG

 

[FitFossil]

...Fitfossil, although you and I have discussed the difference between us...Age for one, do you ever find yourself more weepy than usual? Like I said before my doc said estrogen was the only thing I was making enough of....
ariel

I wish I could give you a simple answer, but I can't, so brace yourself for a little life history ...

Weepiness - not currently, but that's partly because I've been on Celexa (a SSRI anti-depressant I take for OCD and depression) since May. While it's not a "happy pill", it just makes me feel normal. I took Prozac for about 12 years and it made me feel so normal I gradually weaned myself off of it. After several months, my symptoms began to return, and during these times I DID have periods of weepiness come out of the blue.

Looking back 7 years ago, I was taking Prozac and everything was great. THEN I started on the birth control pill, and I plunged into a living HELL. My moods became roller-coaster, fine one minute, weepy or angry the next. Even tripling my Prozac didn't help. I also began having horrible PMS symptoms - moods, breast swelling, water retention. I'd never had PMS before, and I never had it again after stopping the pill.

For many women, progesterone has a calming effect, for others though it's depressive. My tests showed borderline low progesterone. I'm going to look into this when I get my next hormone bloodwork (after a month on the test creme). Progesterone has many protective effects, so if I'm not making enough, I want to rectify it. It's also important for sustaining pregnancy. Progesterone should not to be confused with Progestin (something I consider to be the work of the Devil - at least in my body ). Progestin is man-made and barely resembles Progesterone in either structure or function. It's in birth control pills and Provera

Another symptom of low progesterone is no cycles, irregular or short cycles - mine are regular but short.