250-500, I gained 14 lean pounds from 250 @ 10 weeks sust alone, nothing else. Not as great as I hoped (of course you hope your one of those freaks who gets 20), I will admit that I got tired of eating, my best weeks were 3 and 4, after that things slowed down. When I at like A PIG, I gained, when I curtailed that, so did the gains. Makes me think I'm one of those people who will do best with a pizza style diet + protein.