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Finasteride for hair loss bad for the body?

jd_uk

New member
Thinking of taking it to keep my hair ('m 28 and starting to lose it).

But...what are the negative effects of blocking 70% of the DHT in the body? Is DHT needed to be an athlete and to perform well sexually?

It raises testosterone by about 15% apparently but then also raises estrogen by the same amount - is this bad over a long period of time? What does that rise in estrogen do? Will it cause water retention like when on steroids?

They say that only about 2% get any side effects but SURELY that is BS if you're messing with your hormones?

Once you're on the drug you aint gonna want to come off (hair will just 'catch up to where it would have been' within a year) so I want to make sure that this is not a stupid thing to do.
 
i use it and it duz kill ur sex drive a bit. duznt effect my weight training etc. well duznt feel like it duz
 
I had a terrible time with just saw palmetto. Then I read this article and stopped taking 5-alpha-reductase blockers. ---- Testosterone Is A Prohormone? The main androgen secreted by the testes is of course testosterone. However, in most of the body, the androgenic signal is not carried through by testosterone. In these tissues, which include the brain (CNS), skin, genitals—practically everything but muscle—the active androgen is actually DHT. Testosterone in this case simply acts as a prohormone that is converted to the active androgen DHT by the action of the enzyme 5alpha reductase (5-AR). 5-AR is concentrated heavily in practically every androgen dependent area of the body except for skeletal muscle. This results in very little testosterone actually getting through to these parts of the body to bind to androgen receptors. Instead, it is quickly transformed into DHT, which then interacts with receptors. This transformation serves a very important biological function in these tissues. You see, DHT is a much stronger androgen than testosterone - it binds about 3-5 times more strongly to the androgen receptor. If you took away 5-AR from these tissues and blocked the formation of DHT, then you would see some dramatic changes in physiology. A good case in point is demonstrated in male pseudohermaphroditism due to congenital 5-AR deficiency. This is a relatively rare disorder, however it is actually quite common in the Dominican Republic. In this disorder, males are born with little or no 5-AR enzyme. They have ambiguous genitalia and are often raised as girls. When puberty occurs, their testosterone levels elevate normally although their DHT levels remain very low. Their musculature develops normally like that of other adults, however, they end up with little or no pubic/body hair and underdeveloped prostate and penis. Their libido and sexual function is often disrupted also. Testosterone Is The Active Androgen In Muscle Skeletal muscle is unique from other androgen dependent tissues in the body. It actually contains little or no 5-AR, so little or no DHT is actually formed in the muscle. In addition to this, any DHT that is formed, or that is already present in the blood and travels to the muscle, is quickly deactivated by an enzyme called 3alpha-hydroxysteroid reductase (3a-HSD). So at least as far as muscle is concerned, testosterone is the primary active androgen. This is not to say that administering exogenous DHT is not without any anabolic effect. It actually does have some anabolic activity in the muscle, albeit significantly weaker than that of an equal amount of testosterone. This is due to its quick breakdown by 3a-HSD into the weak metabolite 5alpha-androstan-3a, 17b-diol. If this enzyme were somehow blocked, it is likely that DHT would exhibit very potent anabolic effects on muscle. It is important to understand that even though testosterone is the active androgen in muscle, and DHT exhibits relatively little direct anabolic effects on muscle in men, DHT is still very important for the full performance enhancement effects from testosterone. What I specifically mean here are the effects of DHT on the central nervous system that lead to increased neurological efficiency (strength), and increased resistance to psychological and physical stress—not to mention optimal sexual function and libido. I have heard several anecdotal reports of individuals who have stacked testosterone with Proscar (a 5-AR inhibitor) and have noticed significantly reduced performance enhancement effects. What's going on here? We know it couldn't be due to the inhibition of the direct anabolic activity of testosterone on muscle anabolism. Most likely it is due to the reduction of androgenic effects in other parts of the body that contribute to the ergogenic effects. Specifically the CNS, which is stimulated by androgens to increase neural output leading to greater strength and greater recoverability. Another possibility is a reduction in the production of androgen dependent liver growth factors (such as IGF-1), since DHT is an important androgen in the liver. Anti-Estrogen Effects Of DHT One important function of DHT in the body that does not get much discussion is its antagonism of estrogen. Some men that take Proscar learn this the hard way—by developing a case of gynecomastia. By reducing DHT's protection against estrogen in the body, these men have fallen victim to its most dreaded ramification-bitch tits. How does DHT protect against estrogen? There are at least three ways that this likely occurs. First of all, DHT directly inhibits estrogens activity on tissues. It either does this by acting as a competitive antagonist to the estrogen receptor or by decreasing estrogen-induced RNA transcription at a point subsequent to estrogen receptor binding. Second of all, DHT and its metabolites have been shown to directly block the production of estrogens from androgens by inhibiting the activity of the aromatase enzyme. The studies done in breast tissue showed that DHT, androsterone, and 5alpha-androstandione are potent inhibitors of the formation of estrone from androstenedione. 5alpha-androstandione was shown to be the most potent, while androsterone was the least. Lastly, DHT acts on the hypothalamus/pituitary to decrease the secretion of gonadotropins. By decreasing the secretion of gonadotropins you decrease the production of the raw materials for estrogen production testosterone and androstenedione (DHT itself cannot aromatize into estrogens). This property of DHT comes into particular utility when it is administered exogenously, and this is to be discussed in further detail in the next section. DHT, Estrogen, And The Prostate When it comes to sex hormones, few things are as misunderstood by the general consumer as the relationship of the prostate to DHT. The inaccurate and overly simplistic attitude that DHT is responsible for prostate hypertrophy, and even prostate cancer predominates amongst most people. The real situation is, of course, much more complex. One must understand that there are marked differences between healthy prostate growth (developmental growth), prostate growth due to BPH, and cancerous prostate growth. The first period of prostate growth, deemed developmental growth, is connected to puberty and the testicular secretion of androgens. This takes the prostate from its prepubertal dormancy to the normal sized, healthy, and functional prostate gland of an adult. During the early and mid adult years the prostate stays at this stage, despite the constant levels of high levels of androgens in the body. However, if androgens are blocked in the body then the adult prostate will shrink in size. This can occur by castration, or even by blockade of 5-AR (recall that DHT is the active androgen in the prostate). Later in life, there is often a second stage of growth. This growth is deemed benign prostate hypertrophy (BPH) and this growth occurs in a wholly different hormonal environment than that of developmental growth. Evidence is mounting that the existence of a high estrogen/androgen ratio—a condition common in older men—is highly correlated to the development of BPH. Experimental studies have shown the inability of androgens with saturated A rings (DHT related) to induce an initial condition of prostate hypertrophy. These compounds are non-aromatizable. While, aromatizable androgens on the other hand, such as testosterone or androstenedione can induce hyperplasic modifications of the prostate of monkeys, but these effects are reversed by addition of an aromatase inhibitor. So apparently, estrogen is a causative factor in BPH. Or, probably more accurately, estrogen in the presence of a minimum, permissive amount of androgen. None of this may come as news to many of you, but I bet that very few of you know that DHT can actually be used to treat BPH!! How can it do that? It basically does this by replacing the testosterone in the body, which then has the effect of reducing the amount of estrogen in the body. "DHT can actually be used to treat benign prostate hypertrophy (BPH)!" As I started to explain before, DHT is a strong androgen that will signal the pituitary to decrease the production of gonadotropins. The decrease in gonadotropins will then cause less testosterone to be produced which will in turn cause the estrogen levels to drop. The resulting change in the hormonal milieu (high DHT, low estrogen) then apparently results in a regression of BPH. The clinical application of this theory is discussed in US patent 5,648,350 Dihydrotestosterone for use in androgenotherapy. The following two paragraphs taken from the patent study illustrates the results: In 27 subjects in which the plasma DHT level was controlled, so as to modulate the administered doses, said levels have been increased to 2.5 to 6 ng/ml. There resulted a decrease in gonadotrophy as well as in the plasma levels of testosterone which exceeded at least 1.5 ng/ ml (from 0.5 to 1.4 according to the case); as to the estradiol plasma levels, these decreased by 50% . Among this group of subjects, the volume of the prostate diminished significantly, as was evaluated by ultrasound and by PSA (Prostate Specific Antigen). The mean volume of the prostates was from 31.09. + .16.31 grams before treatment and from 26.34. + -. 12.72 grams after treatment, for a mean reduction of 15.4%, the treatment having a mean duration of 1.8 years with DHT (P= 0.01). The information from this study kind of flies in the face of the traditional thinking concerning BPH now doesn't it? Conclusion Unfortunately, people seem to have a natural tendency to classify things as either good or bad, black or white with absolutely no gray areas. DHT (like estrogen) has recently been on everyone's bad list, and is often considered to be a hormone that serves no function in the body except to cause harm. Now that you have all the necessary facts you can ultimately see, this view is far from the truth. In my opinion, the widespread use of 5-AR inhibitors such as Proscar as a prophylactic agent for people that don't really need it should be highly reconsidered. After reading this I hope you'll agree with me or at least keep an open mind on this sensitive subject. In other words, why don't you just give DHT a break.
 
As long as you don't have a deformed head, I've never seen the problem with just shaving your head, horseshoe looks bad, a shaved head doesn't. Just google some of the stories of people who have taken Finasteride for a prolonged amount of time. It isn't worth it just to keep some of your hair.
 
Nettle root should work and also google BioSil

Characteristics and properties: As its name suggests, stinging nettle is best known for its ability to impart a considerable sting, which occurs when small hairs on its leaves and stem brush against skin, causing a burning sensation and a rash which can last up to 24 hours. However, despite the unpleasantness of its sting, the nettle has been highly regarded in Europe since at least antiquity as both a food and a medicine, with both the Greeks and the Romans using it for a wide variety of medicinal purposes. In the first century, Greek physicians Dioscorides and Galen reported the leaf of the nettle had diuretic and laxative properties and was useful for asthma, pleurisy and spleen illnesses. By medieval times the stinging nettle was in common use throughout the continent, being used for treating rheumatism, arthritis, allergies and eczema, baldness, bladder infections, cough, bronchitis, bursitis, anemia, gingivitis, hives, laryngitis, gout, http://www.vortexhealth.net/sting3.jpgmultiple sclerosis, tendonitis, premenstrual syndrome, prostate enlargement and sciatica. According to Nicolas Culpeper in the seventeenth century, the seeds of the nettle were thought to be beneficial in the treatment of bites from "mad dogs" or the stinging of "venomous creatures." Seeds were also used at that time as an antidote to poisonous herbs such as nightshade and henbane. In early American medicine, bandages soaked in a leaf and stem infusion were used to stop the bleeding of wounds. An account of this use was recorded by Dr. Francis P. Procher, a physician in the Confederacy during the Civil War. Nettle leaves were also recommended as a nutritious food and as a weight loss aid by the famous American plant forager and naturalist, Euell Gibbons.
For some purposes the leaf of the nettle was recommended, for some purposes the stem, for some purposes the seed, and for others the root, and accordingly the whole of the plant was utilised in traditional medicine and revered for its healing properties. It was also popular as a food in many countries and we know today that nettle is highly nutritive, being rich in chlorophyll, beta carotene, vitamins A, C, E and K, several of the B vitamins, tannins, volatile oils, flavonoids, iron, calcium, potassium, phosphates, and various other minerals, especially silica. The stinging nettle is a remarkable nutritional treasure and has often been compared very favourably to spinach.
http://www.vortexhealth.net/sting2.gifToday nettle is recognised as having astringent, expectorant, galactagogue, tonic, anti-inflammatory, hemostatic, and diuretic properties, and is recommended for treating bone and joint conditions, inflammation and irritation of the urinary tract and for preventing urinary system gravel, whilst the diuretic action of the plant has been shown to significantly increase urine volume and can help to alleviate bladder infections. However, the most popular application of stinging nettle today is the use of the root for treating the symptoms of prostate enlargement or benign prostate hyperplasia (BPH). This condition is hormonal in nature, caused by testosterone and the conversion of testosterone to the extremely potent dihydrotestosterone, a conversion which increases as men age. An excess of dihydrotestosterone causes pathological prostate growth. Estrogens also play a part as they too increase as men age and also stimulate prostate growth. These hormones travel around the body in a free state, as well as bound to proteins. One such protein is called sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and its role is to maintain a dynamic hormonal balance in the body. SHBG binds or attaches to hormones and carries them to different receptor sites on cell membranes throughout the body where they can be utilised in different ways. The effect it has depends on which hormone it binds to and which receptor site it is carried to. In the men estrogen and dihydrotestosterone bound to SHBG are usually carried to the receptor sites on the prostate gland,http://www.vortexhealth.net/sting4.jpg and once there in excessive amounts it stimulates prostate tissue cells to divide and grow rapidly - resulting in BPH.
Some of the more recent research on BPH and stinging nettle indicates that the nettle root can interfere with or block a number these hormone-related chemical processes in the body that are implicated in the development of BPH. In clinical research, nettle has demonstrated the ability to stop the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (by inhibiting aromatase, an enzyme required for the conversion), as well as to directly bind to SHBG itself - thereby preventing SHBG from binding to other hormones. Other research also reveals that nettles can prevent SHBG that has already bound to a hormone from attaching to the receptor sites on the prostate, as well as to decrease the production of estrogens (estradiol and estrone) by inhibiting an enzyme required for their production. In summary, most of the intercellular processes required to trigger the prostate to grow new cells and enlarge seems to be inhibited by nettle root. Human and animal clinical studies have confirmed these effects and also demonstrated that nettle root works as well as the drug finasteride which is prescribed for BPH and is also better tolerated than the drug.
The effect of nettle root on dihydrotestosterone (DHT) levels has also made it a treatment for hair loss, as male pattern balding has often been linked to an excess of DHT, as has hair loss in women too. In folklore it was always believed that nettles were an effective treatment for baldness and modern science appears to validate this belief. Nettle root is also http://www.vortexhealth.net/sting12.jpgvaluable as a source of lignans, a type of phytoestrogens, which have become more and more valued in recent years, and which accounts for its galactogogue property. Nettle root also contains a number of chemical compounds which appear to significantly stimulate the immune system.

Nettle root will also boost libido and increase Free Test
 
jeez Myrar...did you copy and paste that from somewhere?

If DHT is so important to the body then why is it that only 2% of people supposedly get side effects from propecia? Some people say that DHT is only really important during puberty?

Anyone else feel free to comment.
 
Testosterone is considerably increased in many androgen responsive tissues when it converts to DHT.

DHT is measured to be 3-4 times stronger than testosterone and is also the most potent steroid found naturally in the human body.

Little testosterone will make its way to the receptor without first being converted to dihydrotestosterone - making DHT by far the the active form of androgen.

It can get complicated so I've tried to simplify everything.

It is also not uncommon for people to to see a loss in mass gains when they reduce DHT.

As far as finasteride, I've heard good and bad...

Some people love it and I've heard of some who hate it.

All you can do is try it for yourself. :)
 
Testosterone is considerably increased in many androgen responsive tissues when it converts to DHT.

DHT is measured to be 3-4 times stronger than testosterone and is also the most potent steroid found naturally in the human body.

Little testosterone will make its way to the receptor without first being converted to dihydrotestosterone - making DHT by far the the active form of androgen.

It can get complicated so I've tried to simplify everything.

It is also not uncommon for people to to see a loss in mass gains when they reduce DHT.

As far as finasteride, I've heard good and bad...

Some people love it and I've heard of some who hate it.

All you can do is try it for yourself. :)


If all that is true then why do some people get no side effects from finasteride which blocks most of the DHT in the body? What does it mean for an androgen to 'get to the receptor'?

Basically, do you think that DHT is essential for being a fully functioning male with a healthy sex drive and athletic performance? I want to be those things which is why i'm worried about taking finasteride.

i don't really want to try it just yet - well, i do want to save my hair - but my health is more important. Anyway - here is a guy who takes finasteride:

View topic - Peapoddy's Story - (25 / just starting fin) - HairlossTalk Support Forums

He's saved his hair and he's shredded. Maybe he is just a freak though.
 
fuck finasteride imo, i didn't notice the side effects the first few years, but eventually they were too obvious... i can't see how anyone wouldn't experience the side effects, i think its a marketing ploy to get people on the shit, currently using spiro cream and .5mg propecia everyday and side effects are much less...
 
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