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Finally proved a point!!!

Smokescreen

Smokescreen

Experienced Noob
Platinum
I always said that EQ has to in some way raise progesterone. Why? Well...a lot of bros say that EQ gives them crazy vascularity. I have read on many medical websites on the web that say that high levels of progesterone causes vascularity.

Just like what happens to us when we use Tren or EQ. Well guess what!? I've been on EQ for quite a while now. And I do notice the vascularity starting to happen.

Well I went to get my progesterone levels checked and guess what bros?! Through the roof!!!! No wonder why I'm getting vascularity and loss of sex drive. High levels of progesterone also cause loss of libido. Yes, I'm taking Testosterone. And its not helping!

But my doctor said that doesn't matter at all. High progesterone will cause extreme vascularity and loss of libido...PERIOD!!!!

The range for males is between 0.3 - 1.2 And my levels came out to 7.7!!!!!!

Hahaha!!!! Finally proved my point!!! EQ=vascularity=loss of libido....just like Tren and like Deca!!

I just got off the phone with a bro over in Los Angeles. Older guy and friends of my dad. This guy has been doing this BB thing for over 22 years. And he was just telling me that EQ does in way act like Tren and Deca.

Only thing being that on a scale of 1-10...Tren is 10, Deca would be about a 6 and EQ about 2.

This is why bros say how vascular they get from the EQ. But also loss of libido. And also anxiety! Same like Tren! But remember....Tren is 10, EQ is about a 2.

No wonder I started to use the EQ and I noticed vascularity. And then all of sudden as of last week I start to notice loss of libido. Even with my Test and proviron added.

He also noted that high progesterone causes the thyroid to speed up. Hence the great fat burning affects from Tren. And to a much lesser degree....EQ!

A tip he threw in. He said to use Tren after a cycle of T3. That this would help to bring our own production of T3 up.
 
Goddamnit!!!! Seems like I can't use any drug without something else fucking it up for me!!! Sex is sex. I love it! It is a gift from God! Why the fuck do I want to get rid of that! All these fucking drugs are pissing me off!

If its not loss of appetite, its loss of libido. Or gyno! Or water retention! Or acne! Or lethargy! Or arrogance! Or trashed Lipids! Fucked up liver! etc etc etc!!!! MOTHERFUCKER!!!!!

Seems like from now on all I can use is

Test
Slin
GH
Proviron
Primobolan
 
Well that would mean that Anavar, Oral-Turinabol, and Primo all increase Progesterone too, as they increase vascularity. This is not the case.

Your CORRELATION does not imply CAUSATION.
 
hey carth i did not notice any lack of libido from my eq cycle, 15 weeks at 400-600mg/week along WITH deca at 400-600mg/week.... hmm..
i guess we're all different. like you say, with the side effects and all, especially my skin, which is starting to take a beating now that i'm off cycle again. :(
i'm pretty much limited to :
deca'
eq

hey my girl/ex girl said she emailed you today, what did she say ? we are getting along, but she has "episodes" every few days where she thinks about the past and starts hating me again... man this is so rough bro !!!
 
Carth said:
I always said that EQ has to in some way raise progesterone. Why? Well...a lot of bros say that EQ gives them crazy vascularity. I have read on many medical websites on the web that say that high levels of progesterone causes vascularity.

Just like what happens to us when we use Tren or EQ. Well guess what!? I've been on EQ for quite a while now. And I do notice the vascularity starting to happen.

Well I went to get my progesterone levels checked and guess what bros?! Through the roof!!!! No wonder why I'm getting vascularity and loss of sex drive. High levels of progesterone also cause loss of libido. Yes, I'm taking Testosterone. And its not helping!

But my doctor said that doesn't matter at all. High progesterone will cause extreme vascularity and loss of libido...PERIOD!!!!

The range for males is between 0.3 - 1.2 And my levels came out to 7.7!!!!!!

Hahaha!!!! Finally proved my point!!! EQ=vascularity=loss of libido....just like Tren and like Deca!!

I just got off the phone with a bro over in Los Angeles. Older guy and friends of my dad. This guy has been doing this BB thing for over 22 years. And he was just telling me that EQ does in way act like Tren and Deca.

Only thing being that on a scale of 1-10...Tren is 10, Deca would be about a 6 and EQ about 2.

This is why bros say how vascular they get from the EQ. But also loss of libido. And also anxiety! Same like Tren! But remember....Tren is 10, EQ is about a 2.

No wonder I started to use the EQ and I noticed vascularity. And then all of sudden as of last week I start to notice loss of libido. Even with my Test and proviron added.

He also noted that high progesterone causes the thyroid to speed up. Hence the great fat burning affects from Tren. And to a much lesser degree....EQ!

A tip he threw in. He said to use Tren after a cycle of T3. That this would help to bring our own production of T3 up.
Click to expand...

I guess I'm lucky then. Running EQ now, haven't lost any of my sex drive and I'm getting vascular
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=28534
 
LVTitan said:
hey carth i did not notice any lack of libido from my eq cycle, 15 weeks at 400-600mg/week along WITH deca at 400-600mg/week.... hmm..
i guess we're all different. like you say, with the side effects and all, especially my skin, which is starting to take a beating now that i'm off cycle again. :(
i'm pretty much limited to :
deca'
eq

hey my girl/ex girl said she emailed you today, what did she say ? we are getting along, but she has "episodes" every few days where she thinks about the past and starts hating me again... man this is so rough bro !!!
Click to expand...


But remember bro. You told me some fucking nasty sides you get from other drugs. Sides I do not get! We are all different!

No! She did not email me today. She lies!!!!
 
Carth said:
Well...my fucking legs look the same like yours! Its crazy! But my lidido is going down. Its still there! But it is starting to go down.
Click to expand...

I am running test and dostinex with it(have some NPP in there). I guess that is helping. I think I remember you saying you don't like dostinex, right?
 
bw1 said:
I am running test and dostinex with it(have some NPP in there). I guess that is helping. I think I remember you saying you don't like dostinex, right?
Click to expand...

Dostinex won't do shit for progesteroen. Only prolactin. I don't mind using dostinex. just not for bulkers because the stuff kills my appetite.
 
RossLovesMoney said:
Well that would mean that Anavar, Oral-Turinabol, and Primo all increase Progesterone too, as they increase vascularity. This is not the case.

Your CORRELATION does not imply CAUSATION.
Click to expand...

the premise of statistics.

Sorry carth - but until a controlled study is done your point is still a hypothesis.

Another thing - my nipples have lactated on dbol before...

the prolactin/progesterone/estrogen mechanisms are not independent of each other.

Progesterone isnt that bad - what you have to look out for is prolactin.
 
Carth said:
Dostinex won't do shit for progesteroen. Only prolactin. I don't mind using dostinex. just not for bulkers because the stuff kills my appetite.
Click to expand...

I understand that, just seems to keep the libido rockin. Weird it kills your appetite. I going to have to see if I can find any info on that being a side. Keeps you eating pussy :)
 
bw1 said:
I understand that, just seems to keep the libido rockin. Weird it kills your appetite. I going to have to see if I can find any info on that being a side. Keeps you eating pussy :)
Click to expand...

Cabergoline has an effect on leptin levels. This is a fact.
 
UA_Iron said:
the premise of statistics.

Sorry carth - but until a controlled study is done your point is still a hypothesis.

Another thing - my nipples have lactated on dbol before...

the prolactin/progesterone/estrogen mechanisms are not independent of each other.

Progesterone isnt that bad - what you have to look out for is prolactin.
Click to expand...

i got lactation from tren! i was using it transdermally. im pretty sure it was from that, when i quit the tren, it stopped. good info bro!
 
UA_Iron said:
the premise of statistics.

Sorry carth - but until a controlled study is done your point is still a hypothesis.

Another thing - my nipples have lactated on dbol before...

the prolactin/progesterone/estrogen mechanisms are not independent of each other.

Progesterone isnt that bad - what you have to look out for is prolactin.
Click to expand...


Progesterone is bad. Ever wonder why you get so full and bloated from Tren? Lethargic? Anxiety? Nighsweats? Tren does this. Progesterone does this.

Dbol!!! Does this too. But in a differeant way. Which might explain why when I'm Dbol....I get a bloated stomach. And also lethargic as hell!
 
michaeltt said:
i got lactation from tren! i was using it transdermally. im pretty sure it was from that, when i quit the tren, it stopped. good info bro!
Click to expand...

That lactation was from prolactin. Happens to me when i increase my dose of GH from 1.8ius per day to 3.6.

We are talking progestereon. Not prolactin.
 
Oh and YES--VAR will make you just as vascular as EQ...and so will TBOL.

I have run all three compounds solo.
 
ey, mr super fitness model.. give us a study that shows that.

I'd say about everyone knows eq is the drug that gives most vascularity.
 
lilleole said:
ey, mr super fitness model.. give us a study that shows that.

I'd say about everyone knows eq is the drug that gives most vascularity.
Click to expand...

LOL--

there aren't any studies showing any compound increases vascularity...

Though I do agree, EQ takes the cake....VAR and TBOL are inches behind.
 
lilleole said:
ey, mr super fitness model.. give us a study that shows that.

I'd say about everyone knows eq is the drug that gives most vascularity.
Click to expand...

Not for me, I'll throw my eq down the toilet for var anyday if vascularity is the sole purpose.....eq doesn't really change my viens much at all.
 
vascularity or lack thereof--is dependant solely on genetics and bf level---the lower the bf% the more vascularity period---bobybuilding 101
 
shape said:
vascularity or lack thereof--is dependant solely on genetics and bf level---the lower the bf% the more vascularity period---bobybuilding 101
Click to expand...

BF% is a VARIABLE in determining vascularity , but not the only variable.

Vasodilation is caused moreso by certain compounds than others. EQ and VAR are especially good at promoting vasodilation. There have been times where my BF was floating around 10% and I was extremely vascular--YES, if i was at 6%, it would be EVEN MORE pronounced, but the vasodilation still occured nonetheless. Just because you have LOW BF%, doesn't mean you will be vascular.
 
i guess a good question would be what can we do to lower progesterone levels
iam currently using eq and test, eq 500 mg week and 250 test a week and lateley i have been getting night sweats ,not sure what this is related too
 
wellbilt said:
i guess a good question would be what can we do to lower progesterone levels
iam currently using eq and test, eq 500 mg week and 250 test a week and lateley i have been getting night sweats ,not sure what this is related too
Click to expand...

Vitex Agnus Cactus
 
wellbilt said:
i guess a good question would be what can we do to lower progesterone levels
iam currently using eq and test, eq 500 mg week and 250 test a week and lateley i have been getting night sweats ,not sure what this is related too
Click to expand...

winny binds to progesterone

"Formestane is a powerful suicide aromatase inhibitor. This means that it decreases estrogen production by preventing the aromatase enzyme from doing its thing with androgens such as testosterone. It also decreases the receptor counts for both estrogen and progesterone. Formestane is now approved in Europe for the treatment of metastatic breast cancer in women who have failed tamoxifen therapy. Formestane is not orally bioavailable and is given intramuscularly each month."
 
UA_Iron said:
winny binds to progesterone

"Formestane is a powerful suicide aromatase inhibitor. This means that it decreases estrogen production by preventing the aromatase enzyme from doing its thing with androgens such as testosterone. It also decreases the receptor counts for both estrogen and progesterone. Formestane is now approved in Europe for the treatment of metastatic breast cancer in women who have failed tamoxifen therapy. Formestane is not orally bioavailable and is given intramuscularly each month."
Click to expand...

Winny binds to SHBG--not prgesterone. Where did you hear this?

FORMESTANE is 4-Hydroxyandrostenedione. It is an aromatase inhibitor.
 
RossLovesMoney said:
Winny binds to SHBG--not prgesterone. Where did you hear this?

FORMESTANE is 4-Hydroxyandrostenedione. It is an aromatase inhibitor.
Click to expand...

This study:

Winstrol will help with progestin receptor activity, but to what degree, that's the Q

Ellis AJ, Cawston TE, Mackie EJ.

Rheumatology Research Unit, Addenbrooke's Hospital, Cambridge, UK.

The anabolic steroid stanozolol stimulates the production of prostaglandin E2 (PGE2) and the matrix metalloproteinases collagenase and stromelysin in human skin fibroblasts but not in rheumatoid synovial fibroblasts. The basis for these differential responses was investigated at the levels of DNA synthesis and steroid receptor binding. Stanozolol inhibited fibroblast growth factor (FGF)-stimulated DNA synthesis in both the skin and synovial fibroblasts, showing that both cell types were capable of responding to the compound. Competitive binding assays indicated that stanozolol bound specifically to both the skin and synovial fibroblasts. Binding of stanozolol to both cell types could be partially displaced by progesterone, indicating that stanozolol binds to the progesterone receptor. Immunocytochemical studies confirmed the presence of progesterone receptors on skin and synovial fibroblasts. However, progesterone failed to elicit any response with respect to collagenase production in either cell type. Nortestosterone, dexamethasone and 17 beta-oestradiol had no effect on binding of stanozolol to either cell type. These results indicate that the inhibition of DNA synthesis by stanozolol is elicited through the progesterone receptor. The effects of stanozolol on collagenase and PGE2 production are mediated by a different receptor, present on skin but not synovial fibroblasts, and as yet unidentified.


I scrapped this off of one of H.FPlex's posts on winstrol as well.

For whatever it's worth, it does show the PR antagonist activity with stanozolol.

What does all this mean...


Deca is not aromatized to progesterone. (Progesterone lacks the phenolic structure in the A ring, so is not the product of aromatization.) Deca is however aromatized to estrogen (1) (2), .

Deca binds to the progesterone receptor (3), but whether progesterone has a direct role in gynecomastia is unknown. It is thought that it acts indirectly by stimulating prolactin secretion. How this occurs is not known. Since prolactin is thought to be the ultimate culprit, prolactin inhibitors such as bromocriptine will prevent and/or reverse prolactin induced gynecomastia.

There are no studies confirming winstrol prevents gyno, although it is possible since in certain tissues it binds to the progesterone receptor as an antagonist. It does not do this in all tissues, and there are no studies showing it binds in breast tissue.

Im am not aware of any studies that show RU-486 (mifepristone) prevents or treats gyno. In fact, in patients that have been treated with mifepristone for Cushing's disease, gynecomastia has been reported as a side effect (4)

(1) J Steroid Biochem 1989 Nov;33(5):949-54
Androgen and 19-norandrogen aromatization by equine and human placental microsomes.
Dintinger T, Gaillard JL, Moslemi S, Zwain I, Silberzahn P.

(2) 1: Nippon Naibunpi Gakkai Zasshi 1986 Jan 20;62(1):18-25
[Aromatization of androstenedione and 19-nortestosterone in human placenta, liver and adipose tissues]
Yoshiji S, Yamamoto T, Okada H.


(3) Methods Find Exp Clin Pharmacol 1997 May;19(4):215-22
Estrogenic and progestagenic activities of physiologic and synthetic androgens, as measured by in vitro bioassays.
Markiewicz L, Gurpide E.

(4)http://www.endocrinology.med.ucla.edu/cushing's_syndrome.htm

www.anabolicfitness.net for this info
 
view said:
I'll bet ur bloodpressure has risen and thats why u are more vascular...
Click to expand...
Actually blood pressure is one of the things that I dont have a problem with for some reason thank god.I have one of those blood presure monitors at home and always get it checked and its always good.Losing hair and gyno now thats a whole nother ballfield. :worried:
 
Carth said:
I always said that EQ has to in some way raise progesterone. Why? Well...a lot of bros say that EQ gives them crazy vascularity. I have read on many medical websites on the web that say that high levels of progesterone causes vascularity.

Just like what happens to us when we use Tren or EQ. Well guess what!? I've been on EQ for quite a while now. And I do notice the vascularity starting to happen.

Well I went to get my progesterone levels checked and guess what bros?! Through the roof!!!! No wonder why I'm getting vascularity and loss of sex drive. High levels of progesterone also cause loss of libido. Yes, I'm taking Testosterone. And its not helping!

But my doctor said that doesn't matter at all. High progesterone will cause extreme vascularity and loss of libido...PERIOD!!!!

The range for males is between 0.3 - 1.2 And my levels came out to 7.7!!!!!!

Hahaha!!!! Finally proved my point!!! EQ=vascularity=loss of libido....just like Tren and like Deca!!

I just got off the phone with a bro over in Los Angeles. Older guy and friends of my dad. This guy has been doing this BB thing for over 22 years. And he was just telling me that EQ does in way act like Tren and Deca.

Only thing being that on a scale of 1-10...Tren is 10, Deca would be about a 6 and EQ about 2.

This is why bros say how vascular they get from the EQ. But also loss of libido. And also anxiety! Same like Tren! But remember....Tren is 10, EQ is about a 2.

No wonder I started to use the EQ and I noticed vascularity. And then all of sudden as of last week I start to notice loss of libido. Even with my Test and proviron added.

He also noted that high progesterone causes the thyroid to speed up. Hence the great fat burning affects from Tren. And to a much lesser degree....EQ!

A tip he threw in. He said to use Tren after a cycle of T3. That this would help to bring our own production of T3 up.
Click to expand...
Good post! I am on 50mg tren EOD, and 200mg EQ P/W, and no test, 50 mg winn eod, 25-50mg proviron a day and 50mg Nolva ED, 12-16mcg clen a day And I am still about 208# and under 4% I think. HGH next week and then I will burn some fat!

Quad
 
wellbilt said:
i guess a good question would be what can we do to lower progesterone levels
iam currently using eq and test, eq 500 mg week and 250 test a week and lateley i have been getting night sweats ,not sure what this is related too
Click to expand...

Nightsweats=high progesterone

Do tons of research on the web on progesterone.
 
Progesterone for Men

Once again, I am not crazy. I know that most of you think of progesterone as an "evil" catabolic and fattening hormone. What many of you may not remember is that the extremely popular anabolic steroid nandrolone decanoate (aka Deca Durabolin or nortestosterone) is in fact classified as a progestin (hormone with progesterone-like activity)! In addition, many progestins given to women in birth control pills and other drugs such as norgestrel and norethidrone are classified as 19-nor-testosterone or 19 nor- progesterone derivatives. Eastern German female Olympic athletes were known to have taken large quantities of these nor-testosterone derivatives to build muscle with the notorious masculinizing side effects that was obvious to all Olympic observers. Modern Olympic testing can now distinguish the difference between nor-progesterone and nor-testosterone derivatives. Since birth control pills aren’t yet on the list of drugs banned from competition, these "women" were able to pass all drug testing without any worries. Of course, I don’t suggest you raid your girlfriends birth control pill case in order to make yourself "feel like Deca". Recent studies at UCLA (9) have shown that different types of birth control pills have different androgenic capacity and can change the Olympic doping standard of testosterone to epitestosterone ratio of six to one with an increase of that ratio.

Are you confused yet? How can one of the most manly of anabolic steroids such as Deca Durabolin be considered a female hormone? How can female birth control pills be used as anabolic steroids? The simple answer to this question is that progesterone is best not considered as a female hormone, but as a hormone with properties somewhere in the middle between testosterone and estrogen. You can tweak the progesterone molecule slightly one way and have a hormone that is androgenic, or tweak it another way and be less androgenic or become more neutral in effect like the natural progesterone in the human body. Progesterone has its reputation as a female hormone due to its role in promoting pregnancy. But natural progesterone is still present in the male and also plays an important role in male physiology, but it has not yet been clearly elucidated. It should be noted that the "masculine" hormone nor-testosterone, that is the basis for the anabolic steroid Deca Durabolin, is actually found in highest concentrations in pregnant women (10).

So how can progesterone like molecules make me big or improve my athletic performance? Are large doses of Deca what you are referring to when you talk about "progesterone for men"? The answer is that nortestosterone drugs and prohormones have disadvantages over testosterone for use in hormone replacement therapy and in athletics / bodybuilding. The main reason nortestosterone is so popular is because of its lower androgenicity. It competes with testosterone for the 5-alpha reductase enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT and instead converts to dihydronortestosterone which is much less androgenic. Therefore you are less likely to experience side effects often associated with testosterone such as acne, hair loss, etc.

However, some people don’t know about nor understand the drawback of nortestosterone. For one thing, it can drastically lower libido. This is not surprising since other progestin based drugs are given to sex offenders to purposely lower their libidos. For male hormone replacement therapy, this can make nortestosterone a big no-no. Most men considering hormone replacement therapy are already suffering from a loss of libido, and nortestosterone can be almost like a castration agent for them. In addition, nortestosterone has a lower aromatization rate than testosterone. Since estrogen can raise HDL levels while androgens tend to lower HDL, this lack of estrogen from nortestosterone can cause HDL levels to drop further than when on testosterone. While temporarily low HDL levels may not be a big concern for a healthy young athlete, this is obviously a bigger concern for older men or those with heart disease risk factors.

Instead of using nortestosterone for hormone replacement therapy, I recommend a combination of natural testosterone and pulses of natural progesterone when testosterone is used. Progesterone, like nortestosterone, competes with testosterone for the 5-alpha reductase enzyme. A combination of testosterone/progesterone could allow for the benefits of increased testosterone while keeping DHT levels balanced. The concept is to help maintain a natural and youthful testosterone/estrogen/progesterone ratios throughout your lifetime. I believe a proper balance is the key to a healthy libido, prostate, and cardiovascular system.

While synthetic progesterone derivatives have been used to lower libido in men (1, 5), I believe that natural progesterone may in fact have the opposite effects in some men. I have heard patient anecdotes and from other medical doctors saying that application of a natural progesterone cream to the scrotum can increase libido and enhance orgasmic pleasure in some men.. I believe that just as high doses of synthetic progesterone derivatives can lower libido, so can low levels of natural progesterone. Natural progesterone can have a calming effect on the nervous system and may help those men who are "rapid ejaculators" or have other anxiety related sexual problems. Restoring or pulsing progesterone may enhance libido, and sexual function. While large doses of synthetic progestins may cause you to get fatter or lose muscle, the role of progesterone in increasing body temperature has been well studied in women (3) and may help bring back resting metabolic rate to a more youthful levels in men as well. Progesterone has the benefit of boosting metabolism but too much can lead to high insulin levels which would likely cancel out any benefits of increased metabolism.
 
I don't think you're crazy, but I think you're digressing a little here. No one said P doesn't do the things posted there. The point is, that what you're taking isn't going to raise your P levels 500% above normal. The tren would and it might still have some effect even though you stopped it 3 weeks ago. But it's HIGHLY unlikely. Macro says he thinks it's the test itself picking up something else you're taking as P. But it's not from EQ.
 
Ulter said:
I don't think you're crazy, but I think you're digressing a little here. No one said P doesn't do the things posted there. The point is, that what you're taking isn't going to raise your P levels 500% above normal. The tren would and it might still have some effect even though you stopped it 3 weeks ago. But it's HIGHLY unlikely. Macro says he thinks it's the test itself picking up something else you're taking as P. But it's not from EQ.
Click to expand...

Ulter, explain the last line of your sentence please. I don't understand it. And as for the Tren. I stopped taking it 7 weeks ago. Not 3 weeks ago. And I was ONLY on the tren for 3 1/2 weeks anyways!
 
Ulter said:
If it's been 7 weeks then it's probably not from tren. But it's not from Eq either.
The test they did to determine your P levels may be reading one of the drugs you're taking as P and that's why it looks so high. It may not actually be that high.
Click to expand...

Ok...and which drug is that? Test? Var? EQ? Proviron? Which one?
 
Carth, I never ran EQ and have always stuck with really low doses of anything else. I was using 100mg cyp, 300 Deca and 2ius and started to notice it's a little tougher to blow my load. This seems to happen to me if my e is too high, or too low. I'm positive it's not high though. So a week after I started my EQ at 400/wk, I upped my Test from 100 to 500mg/wk. Once my e rose a little, thing got better. I'm now dropping the deca a bit and will run this for a total of 12-14 weeks. I tell ya, the eq has been in me for 4 weeks and I am actually lighter, but leaner. I also have an injury, so thats a negative thing, but yea, there's lots of veins! Still a horny fucker. Hope that stays!
 
carth, how sure are you that your drugs are actually what they are supposed to be, meaning, are they UG and is there a chance that something else is in there
 
needsize said:
carth, how sure are you that your drugs are actually what they are supposed to be, meaning, are they UG and is there a chance that something else is in there
Click to expand...

Something else like what? They are from a reputable source. Lab results have been done on them. All good to go!
 
i think anything is possible , we are messing with hormones in our bodies and everyone reacts differently .some people have gotten gyno symptoms from avnvar but most people would say no way , anything can happen just my 2 cents
 
Carth said:
Something else like what? They are from a reputable source. Lab results have been done on them. All good to go!
Click to expand...

anything that has progesterone in it, as EQ just cant do what you are thinking its doing
 
needsize said:
anything that has progesterone in it, as EQ just cant do what you are thinking its doing
Click to expand...

I agree. Winstrol makes me vascular as fuck, but there's no biological pathway for it to convert to progesterone.
 
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