Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
Fertility and steroids
- Thread starter mandina
- Start date
hcg while on will keep you producing sperm (albeit the count is lower) while on (it worked for me on 750 sus/600 equip)- it does for me, but everyone is different. clomid will do nothing on cycle and is even questionable off
needtogetaas
New member
HMG will work better.
Gonadotropin treatment for infertility - Yahoo! Health
Two-year comparison of testicular responses to pulsatile gonadotropin- releasing hormone and exogenous gonadotropins from the inception of therapy in men with isolated hypogonadotropic hypogonadism
L Liu, SM Banks, KM Barnes and RJ Sherins
Developmental Endocrinology Branch, National Institute of Child Health and Human Development, Bethesda, Maryland 20892.
Men with the complete form of isolated hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (initial mean testes volume less than 4 mL) require 2 or more yr of exogenous gonadotropin therapy combining hCG and human menopausal gonadotropin (hMG) to achieve maximal, but subnormal, testis size and sperm output. To test whether pulsatile GnRH therapy, which more closely mimics normal hormonal stimulation, would accelerate or further augment testicular growth, hasten the onset of sperm production, and/or increase sperm output more than occurs during conventional exogenous gonadotropin therapy, we administered either hCG/hMG or GnRH from the inception of therapy to 2 comparable groups of men with complete IHH (initial testicular volume, less than 4 mL) and compared their testicular responses during the first 2 hr of therapy. Five men were treated with pulsatile GnRH in doses of 143-714 ng/kg every 2 h, sc, while 11 other men received hCG (2000 IU) and hMG (75 IU FSH and 75 IU LH) im 3 times/week. In the GnRH-treated men, the mean plasma total and free testosterone levels during therapy rose to within the normal range, but were significantly lower (P less than 0.01 and P less than 0.02, respectively) than those in the hCG/hMG-treated men. The mean plasma estradiol concentrations during therapy were within the high normal range and were similar in the two groups. The mean plasma FSH levels achieved in the GnRH-treated men were significantly (P less than 0.01) and 1.3- to 3.2-fold higher than those in the hCG/hMG-treated men. The mean testicular size achieved in the GnRH-treated men was not significantly different from that in the hCG/hMG-treated men (P = 0.08); the mean testicular volumes after 2 yr were 4.8- and 4.3-fold the pretreatment values in the GnRH and hCG/hMG groups, respectively. After 12 months of therapy, sperm production had occurred in one man in the GnRH group and in no subject in the hCG/hMG group. After 24 months, two men in the GnRH group and eight men in the hCG/hMG group produced sperm. Thus, 40% of the GnRH-treated men and 80% of the hCG/hMG-treated men (P = NS) produced sperm after 2 yr of therapy. The sperm concentrations in all men were below 5 million/mL and were comparable in the two groups (P = NS). These results suggest that pulsatile sc GnRH therapy for the first 2 yr does not accelerate or enhance testicular growth, hasten the onset of sperm production, or increase sperm output significantly compared to hCG/hMG. "
so 30IU of HMG eod with 500IU of HCG ew would be a perfect program to run.
Gonadotropin treatment for infertility - Yahoo! Health
Two-year comparison of testicular responses to pulsatile gonadotropin- releasing hormone and exogenous gonadotropins from the inception of therapy in men with isolated hypogonadotropic hypogonadism
L Liu, SM Banks, KM Barnes and RJ Sherins
Developmental Endocrinology Branch, National Institute of Child Health and Human Development, Bethesda, Maryland 20892.
Men with the complete form of isolated hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (initial mean testes volume less than 4 mL) require 2 or more yr of exogenous gonadotropin therapy combining hCG and human menopausal gonadotropin (hMG) to achieve maximal, but subnormal, testis size and sperm output. To test whether pulsatile GnRH therapy, which more closely mimics normal hormonal stimulation, would accelerate or further augment testicular growth, hasten the onset of sperm production, and/or increase sperm output more than occurs during conventional exogenous gonadotropin therapy, we administered either hCG/hMG or GnRH from the inception of therapy to 2 comparable groups of men with complete IHH (initial testicular volume, less than 4 mL) and compared their testicular responses during the first 2 hr of therapy. Five men were treated with pulsatile GnRH in doses of 143-714 ng/kg every 2 h, sc, while 11 other men received hCG (2000 IU) and hMG (75 IU FSH and 75 IU LH) im 3 times/week. In the GnRH-treated men, the mean plasma total and free testosterone levels during therapy rose to within the normal range, but were significantly lower (P less than 0.01 and P less than 0.02, respectively) than those in the hCG/hMG-treated men. The mean plasma estradiol concentrations during therapy were within the high normal range and were similar in the two groups. The mean plasma FSH levels achieved in the GnRH-treated men were significantly (P less than 0.01) and 1.3- to 3.2-fold higher than those in the hCG/hMG-treated men. The mean testicular size achieved in the GnRH-treated men was not significantly different from that in the hCG/hMG-treated men (P = 0.08); the mean testicular volumes after 2 yr were 4.8- and 4.3-fold the pretreatment values in the GnRH and hCG/hMG groups, respectively. After 12 months of therapy, sperm production had occurred in one man in the GnRH group and in no subject in the hCG/hMG group. After 24 months, two men in the GnRH group and eight men in the hCG/hMG group produced sperm. Thus, 40% of the GnRH-treated men and 80% of the hCG/hMG-treated men (P = NS) produced sperm after 2 yr of therapy. The sperm concentrations in all men were below 5 million/mL and were comparable in the two groups (P = NS). These results suggest that pulsatile sc GnRH therapy for the first 2 yr does not accelerate or enhance testicular growth, hasten the onset of sperm production, or increase sperm output significantly compared to hCG/hMG. "
so 30IU of HMG eod with 500IU of HCG ew would be a perfect program to run.
yankees5677
New member
I am on HRT and my doc told me to always use HCG while on HRT and when I bump everthing up and add other "stuff"=cycle...
He also said when I am ready to stop having kids then stop taking it. The only reason I use it now is because I am not married and I want kids when I am so I'm staying fertile enough to accomplish that when the time comes.
As for HMG it is superior but my insurance pays for HCG...
He also said when I am ready to stop having kids then stop taking it. The only reason I use it now is because I am not married and I want kids when I am so I'm staying fertile enough to accomplish that when the time comes.
As for HMG it is superior but my insurance pays for HCG...
Domimar
New member
thats bs about lowering or losing sperm count. I look at a girl and shes pregnant. I had 3 abortions last year, and it was on most of last year. Unless im not human. I was also on a 21 week cycle when i had knocked up my baby mama, i think thats y my son is abnormally strong for his age. LOL
Now you know better than to say something like that
--suppression caused by endogenous testosterone is a fact--period. The net impact of such varies from person to person based on a variety of factors.
broganlikehogan
New member
so if you stay on test your sperm count will be good?
Conciliator
Banned
This is incorrect. There's a reason the World Health Organization has studied the effects of testosterone administration as a male contraceptive. Test, eq, and other exogenous steroids will cause temporary infertility when the dose and duration of use are sufficient. As this paper explained, "Two large multi-centre, multi-national trials sponsored by the World Health Organization in the 1990s showed that high-dosage exogenous testosterone provided contraceptive efficacy similar to existing female oral contraceptives."
Conciliator
Banned
Nom if you stay on test, you'll probably go infertile.
hCG acts as a weak FSH mimetic, so taking hCG during your cycle will help keep sperm count up. Taking hMG would be even better.
sensational
New member
Conciliator from meso-rx?
Conciliator
Banned
Yep. Thought I'd give Elite a visit.
sensational
New member
Good deal, good to have you.
the elite addict
New member
if that makes you feel better than keep saying it. LOL, just kidding bro. I never come off and the not being able to have kids part is my biggest concern. I think it does lower sperm count considerably. Ive read studies etc. However a little hcg and clomid you / I should be fine.
i have to agree with Conciliator--they studied test and test + duta as birth control for men--no preexisting low numbers or predidpo required--it lowered counts significantly w/ some to -0-
edit: the latest studies are test + progesterone ---but the conclusions are that it is not terribly predictable to whom complete vs. incomplete suppression will occur....thus as with everything else we talk about--it is all individual and in the end we know nothing except what happens to us alone
Last edited:
