Feeling very lethargic and low drive long after cycle ends

[R1 Psycho]

Hey bros,

One of my best friends is experiencing some undesirable effects long after finishing off a 2.5 month cycle of Test and Winstrol.

He also used HCG mid cycle for 2 weeks at 500 IU every 2nd day, and the last week at 500 IU every 2nd day. His last shot of HCG was taken on the same day as last shot of Test.

He began PCT 2 weeks after last Test shot by taking 100 mg's of Clomid for the 1st 2 days. Then continued taking Clomid at 50 mg's/day for the next 3 weeks..

He is 41 years old.
He feels very lethargic and is sleeping 10-12 hours daily.
He has been having issues with getting erections too.

He was also using Cialis quite regularly the past year as he does quite well with a lot of ladies

This was his 2nd cycle.
The 1st one was last year taking 500 mg test/week for 2 months with similar PCT, along with similar use of HCG and Arimidex.

He had blood work done right before he ever did any cycle.
He has a print out from the Doctor measuring the Free Test at 52.5 (pmol/L)

He had another test done 1 month ago, which is about 3 months after his last test shot. It was for Total Test. 10.2 (nmol/L)

It's only been the last month that he has been regaining his energy and drive again.

He hasn't worked much the past year and not many responsibilities which could be factors involved in him feeling run down... Psychological maybe???
He is well off and does not have any money worries.

Currently he seems to be improving again....
I am getting ready to do another cycle and he is thinking about one too, BUT he is worried that he will go through this all over again...

Anyone have any advice or your thoughts on this??
Cheers to all!
R1

 

[Kbordner]

I am sure I will get blasted but I think PCT is a waste. Your friend needs to run test in between blasts and fuck the PCT. OTC test boosters don't work. They never have. DAA is bullshit. That is the truth. Tell him to run 200 wk of whatever test he wants. He will come back to life. He is 41. PCT ain't going to cut it.


55 and still fucking dangerous

 

[R1 Psycho]

Hey thanks for the reply Kbordner..

So do u mean 200/week for good then? As HRT?
He is starting to think along those lines..
The Doc said his test ranges are too acceptable to sign off on a script for that.... But who wants to pay through the ass anyway...

Could you be a bit more detailed on your advice...
Hey bros, its appreciated too!

Cheers!

 

[R1 Psycho]

Or are you referring to running a bridge of 200/week in between cycles?

 

[ironxedge]

blast and cruise. pct is for people who want to lose their gains or not willing to commit to this lifestyle.

 

[ALIN]

I am sure I will get blasted but I think PCT is a waste. Your friend needs to run test in between blasts and fuck the PCT. OTC test boosters don't work. They never have. DAA is bullshit. That is the truth. Tell him to run 200 wk of whatever test he wants. He will come back to life. He is 41. PCT ain't going to cut it.


55 and still fucking dangerous

At 41 TRT is certainly an option to look at.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

I am sure I will get blasted but I think PCT is a waste. Your friend needs to run test in between blasts and fuck the PCT. OTC test boosters don't work. They never have. DAA is bullshit. That is the truth. Tell him to run 200 wk of whatever test he wants. He will come back to life. He is 41. PCT ain't going to cut it.


55 and still fucking dangerous

HRT is fine. Self perscribed or otherwise. But if he wants to be smart about it he'll find a dose of test that will keep him in high normal levels and get blood work to verify the levels. Excess test will lead to problems long term. Elevated Hemocrit, RBC count, Ect...long term shit that is bad for the heart.

 

[TheRippedReverend]

More test will only suppress you more. You dont hv to pct thats rite but it helps massively.

Suppose your buddy just ran 12 weeks? Yes? And he just tested threes months later? Time on + pct = time off. He got tested at the lowest point of course hes gonna feel like shit yes, this will happen over and over.

Look up half life it doesnt work the way most ppl think it does!

Ex: i ran a eq cyc very long ester it took about 7 months to recover.

Running test in between is senseless imo unless you are gonna go trt.

And yes, daa does work i hv bloods that prove it!

 

[R1 Psycho]

Hey bros,

Thank you for your responses here..
I talked to him last night and we both agree 41 is too young to go the HRT route...

I think also a good part of his problems may be psychological...
His mind is very powerful! He's worried about aging, and the physical set backs associated with it.

Now about half lives of different products..

It's difficult to find facts or straight answers when dealing with AAS.. So many 'factual opinions'

If it is now thought and proven that a longer acting ester like say Test Cypionate or Enanthate don't clear for more like 1-2 months after cessation of cycle, then this would/should completely change the start times for PCT, No??

And what are the views on using sustanon these days then?
the 4 common esters activating all at different times; does this make it a bad choice?

 

[stevesmi]

I am sure I will get blasted but I think PCT is a waste. Your friend needs to run test in between blasts and fuck the PCT. OTC test boosters don't work. They never have. DAA is bullshit. That is the truth. Tell him to run 200 wk of whatever test he wants. He will come back to life. He is 41. PCT ain't going to cut it.


55 and still fucking dangerous

at your age that is moderately okay advice. at 41 it isn't so okay ... at 25 it is downright ridiculous.

I have been cycling off and on for years and I feel fantastic off cycle.. PCT is crucial as well as taking the proper supplements. DAA most certainly not bullshit, as long as you get it from the right place and not walmart or GNC. test boosters you are right, most are bullshit.. but again if you get it from the right place it is good stuff. again its all about where you get them from.

to the OP.. your said it yourself your friend has problems with work. for me when i do poorly with my career i go into a tailspin.. completely normal to feel down on yourself. 15 years ago we would work our way through problems and get up and fight.. now its lets go on HRT the rest of our life. even 20 year olds are being put on HRT, its a waste. your body produces testosterone free of charge on its own, why throw that away and suppress yourself forever? makes no sense to me!!

 

[Texas Monster]

Cycle On And Cycle off.......

It is the only way to truly recover from a cycle.

It is possible to keep your gains too. You just have to work that much harder when you come off the stuff to keep em.

People who go TRT are the ones not truly ready to commit to using AAS properly.

 

[Kbordner]

Cycle On And Cycle off.......

It is the only way to truly recover from a cycle.

It is possible to keep your gains too. You just have to work that much harder when you come off the stuff to keep em.

People who go TRT are the ones not truly ready to commit to using AAS properly.

Don't agree with that last statement at all. So only people who do PCT are using AAS properly? I am just putting up my findings after a long time in this game. IMO most people who run PCT lose most of their gains. Some people don't they just lose part of their gains but if I run 300 mg/wk of Prop after a blast I keep it all. I also have a problem with the huge amount of supps recommended for PCT. They cost more than the cycle! The 4 weeks of Prop will cost you $50 tops.


55 and still fucking dangerous

 

[Nelson Montana]

I am sure I will get blasted but I think PCT is a waste. Your friend needs to run test in between blasts and fuck the PCT. OTC test boosters don't work. They never have. DAA is bullshit. That is the truth. Tell him to run 200 wk of whatever test he wants. He will come back to life. He is 41. PCT ain't going to cut it.


55 and still fucking dangerous

This is complete nonsense. Sure DAA alone isn't enough, especially is the dosage isn't high enough, but there are things that can be done other than just going back on.

The problem was a bad PCT. Clomid sucks. Using BRIDGE prevents the very symptoms the OP is experiencing. Listen to people who have good results, not people who tell you something they never did is a waste.

 

[digit0x]

He should talk to doc about HRT IMO.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Don't agree with that last statement at all. So only people who do PCT are using AAS properly? I am just putting up my findings after a long time in this game. IMO most people who run PCT lose most of their gains. Some people don't they just lose part of their gains but if I run 300 mg/wk of Prop after a blast I keep it all. I also have a problem with the huge amount of supps recommended for PCT. They cost more than the cycle! The 4 weeks of Prop will cost you $50 tops.


55 and still fucking dangerous

At 55 you've resolved yourself to being on HRT and that;s fine. But younger guys want to recover. And should. 300 mgs is on the high side to be healthy but if you can tolerate it, go for it. But it's a little like the guys who says he can drink a pint of scotch a day and hold down a job and do fine. Maybe so. But it isn't good advice to recommend it to others.

 

[liffalot]

Cycle On And Cycle off.......

It is the only way to truly recover from a cycle.

It is possible to keep your gains too. You just have to work that much harder when you come off the stuff to keep em.

People who go TRT are the ones not truly ready to commit to using AAS properly.

I agree generally with what you're saying, but blasting and cruising isnt the 'wrong' way to do steroids, its just a method that requires a certain amount of fanatic devotion........meaning that you better hope nothing changes because if you ever want to come off, you're going to be in a world of shit.

In response the posters arguing against PCT - whether or not DAA and natty test boosters work is a matter of brand. Saying they all dont work is assinine - its not a matter of opinion, many of them can and do work. For people blasting and cruising, of course they arent going to work - nothing is going to be able to recover your body after years of constant cycling, so its really no fucking mystery that they dont work for you.

In any case, when done correctly, PCT works. If the fact that you dont feel like you want to die after cycle isnt enough to satisfy, blood tests can prove it.

 

[R1 Psycho]

Props to everyone here taking the time to post helpful replies...

I do believe that his tough recovery wasn't due to any one thing..
Maybe PCT wasn't done properly, but I'm sure his personal and professional life had a lot to do with it as well..

It always helps to hear the various opinions of experienced guys...

Another question for you guys...

Using high amounts of Cialis for prolonged periods...can that create a sort of dependency issue for the person?
Could it have a negative reaction to performing without it?

cheers

 

[liffalot]

Props to everyone here taking the time to post helpful replies...

I do believe that his tough recovery wasn't due to any one thing..
Maybe PCT wasn't done properly, but I'm sure his personal and professional life had a lot to do with it as well..

It always helps to hear the various opinions of experienced guys...

Another question for you guys...

Using high amounts of Cialis for prolonged periods...can that create a sort of dependency issue for the person?
Could it have a negative reaction to performing without it?

cheers

I would imagine that like most things long term use will cause down regulation and form dependency, but after being off of it for a while it should return to normal with no problems....

It wouldnt surprise me at all if it wasnt even substance related given what you've said about where hes at in life right now.

 

[stevesmi]

IMO most people who run PCT lose most of their gains. Some people don't they just lose part of their gains but if I run 300 mg/wk of Prop after a blast I keep it all.

if by gains you are talking about water then you are right.

but its totally normal to lose some strength and size after cycle and its healthy too, gotta let the body recover and catch up.. keeping 'gains' as you put it is gonna cripple your heart health. you look like a big dude in your pic, and i will bet you are stronger than me and a lot of guys on here. but i also bet that your conditioning and heart health is poor if you have stayed on 300mg of prop as a blast a week. your RBC's and heart/liver lipids are gonna be strained, your cholesterol is gonna be in bad shape.

the supplements like hcgenerate help with good cholest levels.. n2guard help with kidney, liver and heart lipids.. these aren't bullshit supplements at all.. they work. if i don't take my n2guard on a tren or even test run i get crippling pumps and i feel like shit. its a must use on cycle!! most certainly NOT bullshit as you say above trust me

 

[Texas Monster]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Well said

And what you loose in water weight you quickly gain back in lean muscle when you keep training hard and eating clean. You have built muscle memory within your cns system and it is very realistic to reach your on cycle lifts while off cycle with proper time off.

You get to go back to being healthier and your body responds by adding more muslce mass. You can not outsmart your own body. If your heart, liver, and kidneys can not handle the load you will not put on one once of muscle period.

 

[Kbordner]

I didn't say all supps are bullshit. I said I don't believe natty test boosters do anything. U also said that running a cycle of Test E doesn't necessarily require 6 OTC supps for PCT. you guys all hate Nolva which is fine but nobody mentions Torem. When I did PCT in my past life I always found it worked better than Nolva or Clomid which always turned me into a whiny bitch. This "friend" needs Test IMO.


55 and still fucking dangerous

 

[jondale123]

Well my opinion is that of what a friend / mentor told me." in fact, back in 1990, I was at Dr. walter jekots, over by the Beverly center, Beverly hills. he said," ---, if you wanna' get really fucking big, thiis is what you doick a few compounds, including a couple nasty 17 alkylated orals, you go on 30 weeks on, 3 weeks off...okay. repeat ad infinitum." Those were his exact words. and he added,"you ever want a kid-go off for a month or two, get her knocked up, and keep on banging it in! class is over!" then,he laughed. great guy, dr. jekot. none of this pussy ass"pct" bullshit! lol! nobody, nobody large does that shit anyway! lol! hahahaha! anyway, you can load up on as much anabolics/gh as you want(relatively speaking) it is the extrememly diuretic abuse that gets guys killed. also, the use of insulin is definitely NOT a healthy practice"

 

[jondale123]

Also on another note my dad took steroids for 30 plus years on and off. He started young. Never once did a pct. Did in upwards of 4 grams a week. Now not on anything he is 50 years old. And just so happened to still be able to reproduce. And have lots of drive ect...

 

[Kbordner]

I didn't say all supps are bullshit. I said I don't believe natty test boosters do anything.I also said that running a cycle of Test E doesn't necessarily require 6 OTC supps for PCT. you guys all hate Nolva which is fine but nobody mentions Torem. When I did PCT in my past life I always found it worked better than Nolva or Clomid which always turned me into a whiny bitch. This "friend" needs Test IMO.


55 and still fucking dangerous

 

[liffalot]

Well my opinion is that of what a friend / mentor told me." in fact, back in 1990, I was at Dr. walter jekots, over by the Beverly center, Beverly hills. he said," ---, if you wanna' get really fucking big, thiis is what you doick a few compounds, including a couple nasty 17 alkylated orals, you go on 30 weeks on, 3 weeks off...okay. repeat ad infinitum." Those were his exact words. and he added,"you ever want a kid-go off for a month or two, get her knocked up, and keep on banging it in! class is over!" then,he laughed. great guy, dr. jekot. none of this pussy ass"pct" bullshit! lol! nobody, nobody large does that shit anyway! lol! hahahaha! anyway, you can load up on as much anabolics/gh as you want(relatively speaking) it is the extrememly diuretic abuse that gets guys killed. also, the use of insulin is definitely NOT a healthy practice"

Lol........I'm getting a kick out of this guy.

Regardless, I think the fact that on this forum alone there are plenty of professional caliber bodybuilders/powerlifters/athletes that do PCT shows that hes not entirely correct. It can be done either way.