Feel like a blowfish...need a new AI protocol

[Vascular Freak]

I am five weeks into my cycle. I started out using letro at 2.5mg ed, along with 2 pumps of aifm and was nice and dry with no crazy sides except lowered libido. I ran out of letro and figured the aifm would be enough, so I continued on with 6 pumps of aifm ed (no letro) and I am bloated like broad on her period after eating a bag of doritos.

My nips aren't sore at all, no signs of gyno but I am bloated right up. Waist feels thick, lower back bulging over the under and the whole nine yards.

Is this normal with only 400mg test, 800mg eq, and 600 mg primo ew? I am thinking of switching my AI protocol to 50mg proviron and aromasin..... my question is how much aromasin will compare to 1.5mg letro... approximately? Letro is good but isn't so good for cholesterol I hear?

 

[Vascular Freak]

BTW, this all happened within 3-4 days after dropping the letro with no diet, training changes at all.

 

[solidspine]

Nice cycle by the way,

Have no idea why you are experiencing the bloat, primo certainly does not cause it, and that is a low amount of test.


Personally have never experienced bloat from EQ

And AIFM usually helps control bloat.


Simple solution would be to add back a small amount of letro and see if it reverses.


On another note,

6 pumps a day will eventually cause severe joint pain.

 

[bbkingpin]

Why would you use some esoteric supplement for an AI when you can use a scienticfically and medically approved drug like letro?

 

[swede74]

Why would you use some esoteric supplement for an AI when you can use a scienticfically and medically approved drug like letro?

Props for the usage of esoteric here! Stick with the letro..it will do it's job. One of the worst things you can do is stop letro suddenly while on cycle...estrogen will rebound quickly.

 

[Vascular Freak]

Props for the usage of esoteric here! Stick with the letro..it will do it's job. One of the worst things you can do is stop letro suddenly while on cycle...estrogen will rebound quickly.

I think that is what happened. I am going to order some more letro and add some proviron to it. Maybe 50mg proviron and 1.25 mg of letro ed.

Maybe I am just getting fat, not estro bloat

 

[macrophage69alpha]

when you go from 2.5mg letro + 2 pumps AIFM to just AIFM (even at 6 pumps) you are going to see some gain in water (and at least the weaker estrogen estrone). Because 6 pumps of AIFM is not = to 2.5mg letro + 2 pumps AIFM.

letrozole completely suppresses sulfatase (which produces the weak estrogen estrone) even at low doses. AIFM and AROMASIN suppress sulfatase, but not to the extent that letrozole does. They do suppress aromatase (estradiol producer) to a similar extent (letro is still a little more potent in that aspect as well).

letrozole is the strongest, so when you removed it you are going to see some increase in estrogen, even when you increased the dose of your steroidal AI. (in this case AIFM).

 

[Ulter]

If it takes 2.5 letro and 2 AIFM to keep you dry, like Macro said you can't expect 4 more sprays to do the same. I would go to 6 AM and 6 PM to get that much suppression. You're outrageously sensitive to E if that little dose of test is bloating you so much. Many people I know don't even use an AI with only 400mg of test. That sucks Bro.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

increased water retention may also be due to increased sodium intake or due to hormonal shift.... increasing AIFM will increase Free androgen levels, also it will inhibit 5beta reduction of boldenone, this can affect water distribution and insulin sensitivity, this combined with an increase in estrone (which is likely higher in the short term due to upregulation by letrozole) could be causing water issues.

would give it 7-10 days at the dosage you are using, if water levels do not get where you want them would switch back to letro.

you may need letro level suppression, though it may also be a confluence of events that is causing your current water retention issues.

DO NOT reccomend increasing the dosage of AIFM.

 

[Vascular Freak]

increased water retention may also be due to increased sodium intake or due to hormonal shift.... increasing AIFM will increase Free androgen levels, also it will inhibit 5beta reduction of boldenone, this can affect water distribution and insulin sensitivity, this combined with an increase in estrone (which is likely higher in the short term due to upregulation by letrozole) could be causing water issues.

would give it 7-10 days at the dosage you are using, if water levels do not get where you want them would switch back to letro.

you may need letro level suppression, though it may also be a confluence of events that is causing your current water retention issues.

DO NOT reccomend increasing the dosage of AIFM.

Thanks for the good info Mac.... I am really sensitive to estro and the aifm is actually doing the job, but I would be comfortable with a little less bloat. I will be sticking to JUST the aifm til wednesday or so since that is the soonest I can get some letro.

It definetly has got to be a rebound effect of coming off the letro... and 50mg of winstrol at the same time. Prg and estro levels may have been suppressed form the winstrol and letro.

 

[Vascular Freak]

If it takes 2.5 letro and 2 AIFM to keep you dry, like Macro said you can't expect 4 more sprays to do the same. I would go to 6 AM and 6 PM to get that much suppression. You're outrageously sensitive to E if that little dose of test is bloating you so much. Many people I know don't even use an AI with only 400mg of test. That sucks Bro.

Ya it does suck, thats why I have been using anti-e almost 80% or the time for the past 3-4 years now. Without it I can't get lean, and always feel soft. With it's a different game, I can get extremely low bf and feel comfortable.

 

[Ulter]

Sorry for the bad advice. If Macro says more won't help then please follow that advice.

 

[TraxZBT]

in my experience... EQ bloats pretty badly (as I recall half the rate as test) so judging by your cycle, you are getting the equivalent bloat of about 800mg test.

400mg test plus half that of the EQ.

 

[Vascular Freak]

in my experience... EQ bloats pretty badly (as I recall half the rate as test) so judging by your cycle, you are getting the equivalent bloat of about 800mg test.

400mg test plus half that of the EQ.

I thought the same thing... and from my experience I get estro symptoms from eq if no AI's are used. The wierd thing is when I was younger with a little more bf I would notice my nips get sensitive before I got bloated, now my nips don't seem to be affected at all but I get watery.

At a low bf like in your avatar I notice every bit of water, veins disappear, little wrinkles appear that aren't normally there.

My last cycle I ran was similar to the current cycle but I ran 50mg of proviron with 2-4 pumps of aifm and I was dry as hell, I believe that proviron really helps offset estro effect almost as well as an AI.

 

[galaxy]

If you figure that eq converts at half the rate as test then you basically looking at 800 mgs of test , so an anti e would definately be necessary.

 

[lartinos]

ya I agre about the EQ, I still think aromasin would do the job just fine though. I would only think about using anything other than letro in your case if you knew at some point you'd be using nolvadex.

 

[Vascular Freak]

The bloat is killing me, I keep wanting to cut back on the calories because I feel like I am getting fat. When I had the letro in there I was eating like it was my business and was growing great.

Its crazy how the mind plays tricks on you

 

[bbkingpin]

The bloat is killing me, I keep wanting to cut back on the calories because I feel like I am getting fat. When I had the letro in there I was eating like it was my business and was growing great.

Its crazy how the mind plays tricks on you

Maybe you need some lipo and gyno treatment and then stay away from aromatizing roids (aside from maintenance dosage) and take small dose AI and double up on nolva when you take even maintenance dose test, e.g., 250 mg per week ... if you are that sensitive.

 

[Vascular Freak]

Maybe you need some lipo and gyno treatment and then stay away from aromatizing roids (aside from maintenance dosage) and take small dose AI and double up on nolva when you take even maintenance dose test, e.g., 250 mg per week ... if you are that sensitive.

I have slightly puffy nips from when I was a teen even though my bf gets down near 6-8%. The only way to get rid of the puffiness is with lots of proviron and letro.

Some day i will look into lipo and gyno surgery etc but for now I am ok, most people would think I was crazy to worry about what I worry about but it bugs me so I tend to stay on the leaner side year round.

I don't really like nolva, it does nothing for me, I still get bloated and it doesn't seem to work any better against gyno prevention than letro or aromasin does. I only use a low dose of nolva PCT for its LH stimulating properties, works wonders at 5-10mg ed along with clomid and proviron (for PCT)