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"fat fast"

plornive

New member
http://t-mag.com/html/body_113fat.html

I don't know if another thread talks about this, but it sounds like a viable way to lose fast weight before a vacation or something. It also sounds *difficult* with no carb-ups. What do you think? To me, it sounds like it would work, but I don't buy the no loss in lean mass claim. Also, I don't understand how one would train effectively on this diet. The reason it is interesting to me is that Lyle McDonald supposedly helped to create it.
Here is the full-text:

The Fat Fast Experiment — Part Deux
The results are in!
by Brock Strasser

Brock Strasser is an extreme guy. While most of us are satisfied with a nice Trans-Am, Brock tears up the streets in a Viper. While we think our Labrador Retrievers are really cool, Brock prefers Mastiffs, which are roughly the size of small horses.

And while we're really happy to have girlfriends or wives with nice racks, Brock likes his women with nipples the size of dinner plates. So it's no surprise that when Brock decides to go on a diet, he's going to take it to extremes. Since he's also a sort of mad scientist, he thought he might as well experiment a little while he was at it. In case you missed it, Bock outlined his program here back in issue 107.


I have some disheartening news. The Fat Fast Experiment was a failure. I set out to lose 25 pounds of fat and I only lost 14. Because of my weak will, I only lasted 24 days on this Draconian diet and supplement scheme. I went from 212 pounds at 16.5% body fat to 198 pounds at 10.6% body fat. No rippling veins, no shredded glutes, and no six-pack of abs. My goal was to hit 185 pounds and lose 20-30 pounds of fat. I failed.

In fact, I'm so disappointed I've decided to quit working in the bodybuilding industry altogether. From now on, I'm going to concentrate my efforts on the other love of my life. That's right, I'm going to start designing feminine hygiene products. Look for new super absorbent "Brock Blocks: Tampons with Attitude," coming soon to a store near you.

Okay, I'm kidding. Here's how the diet went down.

If you remember in my prelude to this experiment, my plan was to go on a ketogenic diet that allowed me only 1300 calories per day. Basically, I survived on the following:

1. Cold-pressed flax seed oil — five tablespoons a day, which is about 650 calories or almost half of my daily caloric intake.

2. A special protein blend (160 grams per day) I had custom made. (Unfortunately, low-carb Grow! wasn't available to me at the time.)

3. I'd also throw in the occasional "delicacy" of oil-packed tuna, a boiled egg, or bit of cheese.

For 24 days, I survived on this diet until I ultimately fell victim to "carb crave" on day 25 when I passed by a local Dunkin' Donuts. I smelled the sugary aroma of carb-laden yumminess drifting from behind the glass doors. The powdered donuts and eclairs seamed to beckon me to come inside and chow down. My body rebelled against my good intentions and I soon found myself shoving a little old lady out of the way and diving into a fresh batch of jelly filled donuts. Three days later I awoke from the insulin-induced coma and knew my diet experiment was officially over.

So was this diet a failure? Truthfully, the answer is no.

I did lose 14 pounds of pure fat in only 24 days and I did it without losing any lean body mass — none, zero, nada! Many have gone so far as to say that losing fat this quickly without sacrificing muscle is impossible, but that's exactly what happened. I lost a full two inches of girth from my waist. My arms and chest are as big as they ever were (within 1/4" on the arms and 1/2" on the chest). I look like an athlete, not a bodybuilder, which isn't a problem for me. I never really wanted to look like one of those 285-pound gorillas anyhow.

My face looks thinner and I look younger and healthier. Everyone, from my wife to people at the various gyms I frequent, have all commented on the "transformation" I've made. I've been accused of being on clenbuterol, Cytomel, Primbolan, Winstrol, Oxandrin, growth hormone, you name it. In reality, I only used two Biotest products (Androsol and MD6) and a plain multivitamin.

Because I know some of you are probably more "steel willed" than I am and will want to try this protocol yourself, I'm going to outline exactly what I did and how I did it.


Fat Fast Training

The first thing I did was modify my workout to include 30 minutes of aerobics three times per week at 70% maximal heart rate. I despise aerobics almost as much as I despise dieting, but I did manage to stick with this. Basically, all I did was hop on the treadmill at a meager 6 MPH for 30 minutes after every resistance training session. On days that I trained legs, I admit to starting out a little slower (4.5–5 MPH for 4–5 minutes). I always did a "cool down" for 7–8 minutes at 4 MPH. I don't know if this mattered or not.

On Mondays, I trained chest and triceps:

• Incline Bench Press for 4 sets of 8–12 reps including a warm up set

• Weighted Dips for 4 sets of 8 reps each

• 100 Push Ups divided up in 5–6 sets

• Tricep Pushdowns (both arms, pronated position) for 3 sets of 10 reps.

• Tricep Pushdowns (supinated) for 3 sets of 10 reps each arm

• Nosebreakers (prone tricep extensions, starting and ending at the nose), 3 sets of 8-12 reps

• 30 minutes of aerobic activity.

On Tuesdays, I trained back and biceps and I did the following workout:

• Wide Grip Chin Ups for 3 sets of 10-8-6 reps

• Low Cable Rows for 4 sets of 10-12 reps (both arms, pronated position)

• Cable Pulldowns (in front of chest) for 4 sets of 10-12 reps

• Standing Barbell Curl for 3 sets of 10-12 reps

• Dumbbell Preacher Curl for 3 sets of 10-12 reps

• Cable Concentration Curls for 3 sets of 10-12 reps

• 30 minutes of aerobic activity

On Saturday I trained shoulders, legs, and abs:

• Squats for 4 sets of 8-10 reps

• Leg Curls for 4 sets of 8-10 reps

• Standing Calf Raises for 4 sets of 20-30 reps

• Leg Presses at 45 degrees for 2 sets of 10-12 reps

• Power Cleans for 3 sets of 10-12 reps

• Cable Upright Rows for 3 sets of 10-12 reps

• Dumbbell Lateral Raises for 3 sets of 10-12 reps

• Crunches, 3 sets to failure

• 30 minutes of aerobic activity

It's important to note that while I didn't gain any strength during this three week period, I didn't lose any either. I still do incline bench presses for reps with 245 pounds and all my other poundages also went unaffected.


Fat Fast Supplementation

I used three capsules of MD6 per day. The maximum dosage is six caps per day taken in divided dosages, but three is all it took to make me feel hot and zonk my appetite sufficiently. I also used 70 sprays of Androsol, 35 in the morning after my shower and 35 sprays right after cleaning up from my afternoon workout. On days where I wasn't training, I sprayed on my second dosing between 3 and 5 PM.

To put it bluntly, the worst part of this was meal time. At around day ten, the very idea of the protein drink made me want to gag. Once or twice I was sure the concoction was going to come back up on me. I tried to eat four or five equally divided meals per day, but usually it was more like three per day.

Also, a serving or two of Metamucil is not even close to what you need for proper "bowel hygiene." I learned that lesson the hard way. Remember, no carbs means no fiber and that means constipation. There were a few times I was sitting on the toilet and absolutely sweating bullets. I swore I was giving birth! Next time, I think I'm going to try Peri-Colace every second day in addition to daily servings of Metamucil.


Final Thoughts

There are a couple of items of note regarding the Fat Fast Experiment. First off, I lost 8 pounds the first week. Obviously, quite a bit of this was water weight as ketones have a moderate diuretic effect. I think if I ever do this again, I'll make sure I drink eight full 16 ounce glasses of water per day.

My energy levels never seemed to lag much and I thank MD6 for this. However, I never did seem to get that "pump" during workouts like when I wasn't doing this experiment. I think I might experiment with limited carb intake (less than 60 grams) on training days just before the workout. The alpha lipoic acid in MD6 should help to keep me in ketosis while the small quantity of carbs might help me to "feel the pump." Physiologically, this pump might not mean a hill of beans with regards to muscle growth, but psychologically, I'm one of those people who really need it.

Low carb guru Lyle McDonald also put forth an interesting idea. Once or twice per week it might be a good idea to have virtually 100% of all caloric intake come from protein. The science behind this is sound, so I'll probably opt to try it once per week on non-training days.

I'd be really interested to hear about the experiences of any readers who opt to try the Fat Fast. Drop me an e-mail here if you choose to try this diet. Initially, I wanted to stay on the diet around 30 days. I'd like to see if someone could manage to do this for 42 days (6 weeks) and maybe take some before and after photos. We might even post them right here at T-mag. Any volunteers?

Well, that's all folks. I'm sure I'll do this again, maybe in spring 2001 so I'm in better shape next summer than I am this summer. I think this protocol of MD6, Androsol and a 50% caloric reduction ketogenic diet has a lot of upside. I'm convinced that if you're determined to lose fat and determined to lose it rapidly, legally and without muscle loss, then this plan will certainly work for you. If, of course, you stay the hell away from Dunkin' Donuts!
 
that diet does work great. And you dont need andro really or all just keep protien at 160. You dont lose much lean mass only electrolites and glycogen.

This diet will cut you the same in 6 weeks as a high carb diet will in 12 weeks. See I came off the diet and eca all it the same time. I ended up binging for 2 weeks and ended up gaining alot of the fat and water back. Atlest 15+lbs total. It turns the body on to starvation-survival mode since their is no carb ups then when you finally eat carbs you get some kind of binge because they induse sertonin, its like being high the over eating gets you high. But I am sure if you did it for 10 weeks it would be imposible to gain it all back that quick because you would be like 4% and I would actually save the eac stack for when you get on carbs. But in 2 weeks i went from 8% bodyfat to atlest 13-14%, when I started the diet I was 17-18 to 8% but it only took me 2 weeks to gain it back% I still made progress but only by 10 lbs.

That diet is the is very effective and the only way I could see my abbs. but after binge eating strait even waking up and eating steak and eggs and oatmeal at 3 am, bagels 1 hour later and eating as I got home none stop tons of rice pasta, breads and even penut butter chicken breast portien bars tons of food gorging and tons of other things I missed durring the diet The weight pops right back on. I did this in less then a few day. perfect for a vacation, but if you drink or eat carbs and fats keep it to a minimum the week off and ease into things. I made that mistake and it fucken sucks now,5-10,000 calories a day because I like binge eating. it actually feels crapy but my body told me to do it for some reason because all this food was in my house when I started to eat carbs again now I feel good but dont look as good. Its Ironic dont you think.

I think this diet would work great if you like bulking really heavy, then you can get on it and do tons of cardio and lose 60 lbs in 90 days without having to result to any illegal fat loss drugs. This diet however is extremely unheaththy. But I bet if you did it correctly you can gain huge amounts of solid muscle to your frame by overeating huge amouts of calories than going on the fat fast to lose it. without resulting to steroids.

Very effective diet! period, shrinks your stomach down to 31.5 inches makes it solid but then you gain it back easy as hell so wach out..
 
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When I did it I didnt follow instructions but I followed what dan duchine recommends to train as heavy as you can with low reps when dieting except for abs I did 100 situps a day 3 times a week.
 
If anyone tried this type of diet, I would suggest weaning off of it by increasing calories slowly using extra protein, MCT oil and pyruvate.

Protein has a greater thermogenic effect than all other macronutrients (carbs and fats). MCT oil and pyruvate have been shown to prevent weight rebound after caloric deprivation. A small amount of carbs can be used too, especially after training, but bingeing on high carb foods after this diet is asking for fat re-gain.
 
Any type of diet that you have restricted carb intake, it is important to slowly introduce carbs back into your diet when you have reached your goal weight. The lower your bodyfat percentage, the more important this becomes. Just my personal experience.
firstenrgy
 
Didn't someone do a post saying that all you should eat when dieting is canned tuna, flax, and cucumbers?

Well, looks like this is just a variation on that.

By the way, I think we heckled the dude who suggested the tuna/flax/cucumber diet.
 
I dont think this is a healthy diet lol but Im sure it will work pretty close to what its supposed to. My question is, WHY did the writer say he was only going to use a protein blend(I assume protein powder supplement) as pretty much his sole sourch of protein? I can understand the flaxseed oil thing but not the protein. Why couldnt you just eat tuna and chicken instead???? Does anyone know why???
 
Most likely because it's easier to gauge exactly how much protein your're getting from powder versus real foods. Also maybe the bioavailability from protein powders is better in general than real foods, except maybe eggs.
 
solidj55 said:
My question is, WHY did the writer say he was only going to use a protein blend(I assume protein powder supplement) as pretty much his sole sourch of protein? I can understand the flaxseed oil thing but not the protein. Why couldnt you just eat tuna and chicken instead???? Does anyone know why???

For simplicity. I think its stated somewhere in the article, or maybe in a follow up article (or even on their forum). Additionally, he said it works equally as well using real food. Consequently, don't assume the diet can only be done using protein shakes. There is plenty of good information from people who have tried the diet on the T-Mag forums. Do a search and you'll find it...
 
I guess you may be right. Hell I dont know lol, I wouldnt mind trying it for 6 weeks but I dont think I could handle only liquid meals. I may experiment with it using only chicken, tuna, eggs, and flaxseed oil. Something like this:
Meal 1- 3 whole eggs, 2oz chicken
Meal 2,3,4 - 1 can tuna, 1tblspn flax
Meal 5- 6oz chicken 1 tblspn flax

The ratio like this would still be the same give or take just a few grams on each side. I may try it for 4-6 weeks and see what happens. Im 5'5" and weigh 190@ 15-17%BF. I would like to see if I could get down to 8-10%BF or so. We will see.
 
I did it last year with great results and I had next to no rebound effect at all. Lost about 20 pounds and just under 4 inches off my waist in 34 days with no loss in muscles size.

After I only gained about 5 pounds back. The key is to introduce carbs slowly after you finish.

I have seen many be successful with this diet.

I am on day 3 of it again right now.
 
I am doing the exact same thing as I did a year ago except for adding a few more calories as I have put on a lot of weight this past year.

I take 6 protein shakes a day and 6 tablespoons of flax oil a day. Every second day for supper I have chicken breasts and salad with Caesar dressing. All the time I make sure my calories stay below 1600/day.

I take a fat burner 3 times day.
5g of glutamine in each shake
5g of Creatine in each shake
a mulitvitamin
and take something to preserve your muscle, weather it be gear, androsol, methoxy, tribex or any products like that. Last year i used methoxy and tribex and I didn't lose any muscle and actually increased a few lifts. This year I am using some gear.

I kept my training the same as I did in the mass building as I wanna make sure I don't start dropping strength. 5 days a week with one bodypart per day. I do cardio 4-5 times a week for between 30-50 minutes.

I will keep updating my progress.
 
big dawg your taking 1600 calories per how much bodyweight. and leanbodyweight???? so i can kinda get an idea thanks
 
nclifter6feet6 said:
big dawg your taking 1600 calories per how much bodyweight. and leanbodyweight???? so i can kinda get an idea thanks

I started at 237, no idea of what my BF% is.
 
Well Ive decided this is the diet Im going to do. I am going to attempt to stay on it for 6-8weeks. Im not going to use protein shakes only though. I am going to do mine like this

Meal 1: 3 whole eggs
Meals 2,3,4: 1 can of tuna+1tablespoon Flaxseed oil
Meal 5: 30g of whey protein+1tablespoon Flaxseed oil

The calories and amount of protein/fats are exactly the same but I cant take only liquid meals lol. I will keep you guys posted on my results if you wish. Just let me know. It will be at least another week before I start it, maybe longer. I injured my back two weeks ago and havent lifted in 2 weeks. I go to the doc Friday to see if Im going to be ok. If he clears me to lift I will be back lifting on Monday. If that is the case(which I ask all of you to pray for me that it will happen lol)then I will start the diet the following Monday. I want to get at least a week of lifting light to get back into it before I start dieting. But enough of my rambling on.
 
I don't understand how you can train effectively on this diet, but otherwise it looks excellent on paper. What about including some pre-workout carbs, say 30g 30 minutes before training (this would make it a low calorie TKD, I guess)? This would only add 120 calories, and you could just decrease fat calories to make up for it. It could prevent muscle loss during training. On this low of calories, it seems like one would easily return to ketosis after training.
 
solidj55 said:
Meal 1: 3 whole eggs
Meals 2,3,4: 1 can of tuna+1tablespoon Flaxseed oil
Meal 5: 30g of whey protein+1tablespoon Flaxseed oil
Have you thought about ordering some micellar casein for this diet instead of using whey? On non-ketogenic diets, slowly digesting proteins lead to more assimilation and less gluconeogenesis. I assume casein would also be better on a ketogenic diet like this, too. Casein would have as much glutamine and BCAA's as whey, but digest more steadily. The brain uses glucose at a constant, slow pace, and the brain is also the main source of glucose at rest. Training is another story.
 
Thanks man I may just have to do that. The meal I was going to eat my whey with was post workout, I workout late in the day so I was going to use it then but I will check into the casein.
 
Day 4 today.

Weighed in at 229 and have dropped 1/2 inch off of waist.

Strength has been good, did personal best on leg day yesterday.

Hunger pangs have gone down somewhat, drinking ton's of water.
 
Damn Bigdawg1468 already lost about 10 pounds and a 1/2 inch off the waist in 4 days and your strength is still good!!! Thats pretty kickass results. I hope the same happens for me when I start the diet. Im hoping in 6-8 weeks that I can drop my bodyfat from about 15-17% where it is now to about 7-8% and keep most of my muscle. We will see, keep us posted on the results. Oh yea, how much cardio are you doing?
 
"...and the brain is also the main source of glucose at rest. "

I hope you meant to say that the brain's main source of energy is glucose, and not that the brain IS THE MAIN SOURCE of glucose.
 
solidj55 said:
Damn Bigdawg1468 already lost about 10 pounds and a 1/2 inch off the waist in 4 days and your strength is still good!!! Thats pretty kickass results. I hope the same happens for me when I start the diet. Im hoping in 6-8 weeks that I can drop my bodyfat from about 15-17% where it is now to about 7-8% and keep most of my muscle. We will see, keep us posted on the results. Oh yea, how much cardio are you doing?

Obviously you'll lose lots of water and glycogen in the first few days, so wait for a while until you assess how much fat you're really losing...

The diet works well providing you use some form of prohormone or anabolic. However, it seriously messes with your metabolism, so refeeds are quite necessary IMO. Likewise, you have to be careful how you reintroduce carbs and transfer to a normal diet...
 
cockdezl said:
"...and the brain is also the main source of glucose at rest. "

I hope you meant to say that the brain's main source of energy is glucose, and not that the brain IS THE MAIN SOURCE of glucose.

Yeah, that's what I meant... just think what I'm like on low carbs! Ketogenic diets kill my job performance...
 
bm2k, yea I know that you lose a lot of water and all during the first few days of the first week or so. Im not new to dieting at all. Everyone who has tried the diet and stated so has said that they had great results with cutting a lot of fat really fast and maintaing their muscle. I dont really see why anabolics is necessary unless you are speaking of for retaining more muscle. I realize that it helps there but anabolics shouldnt make the diet more effective. As far as anabolics and retaining muscle, well I would like to hold on to as much of my muscle as I can but anabolics are out of the question for me for numerous reasons, number1 I have a back injury and anabolics arent really known for improving injuries, 2 the legal issue. I dont feel I should be partaking in anabolics because of my "career" choice. I am a lot more overweight than I have ever been(15%-18% not exactly sure) I usually stay at 6-8% year round. I hate how I look and also my fat storage patterns are all in my stomach and love handles. I feel that the extra weight is also restricting my healing of my back. So if I have to sacrafice some muscle to feel good again so be it.
 
bm2k- wow dude, I didnt mean to come off like a know it all or being a dick lol. It kind of has that tone to my last response. I was just explaining my reasons for why I want to do the diet and all. Sorry if it sounded like that. By the way, I tried to find some of the user feedback on the diet on t-mag.com's forums and couldnt. When I searched it came up 0. Oh well, thanks for the replies and helpful info.
 
solidj55 said:
Damn Bigdawg1468 already lost about 10 pounds and a 1/2 inch off the waist in 4 days and your strength is still good!!! Thats pretty kickass results. I hope the same happens for me when I start the diet. Im hoping in 6-8 weeks that I can drop my bodyfat from about 15-17% where it is now to about 7-8% and keep most of my muscle. We will see, keep us posted on the results. Oh yea, how much cardio are you doing?

Right now I am doing 30 minutes/day 4 days a week. I will increase that up to 50 minutes once I get used to it again as I didn't do cardio for the 14 weeks of my bulk cycle and I don't have my lungs back yet.
 
It seems like it would only be beneficial to replace some of the fat with preworkout carbs. Weight-training requires glucose, so there must be some source of glucose in the diet above just the brain's requirements. If this is not supplied, there will necessarily be muscle loss.

It wouldn't limit fat-loss at all, so why not just turn it into a very low calorie TKD?
 
I actually thought about trying that. Like the meal before lifting cut out the fat and replace with about 30g of carbs and possibly adding 30g of carbs in with post workout drink. And then keeping everything else the same. Im not sure yet but thats a lot of what I was thinking about.
 
solidj55 said:
I actually thought about trying that. Like the meal before lifting cut out the fat and replace with about 30g of carbs and possibly adding 30g of carbs in with post workout drink. And then keeping everything else the same. Im not sure yet but thats a lot of what I was thinking about.

I think if you want to make sure you stay in ketosis after the workout, pre-workout carbs would be your best bet. 60g seems like too much to me. If I do I'm going to do about 25g or less pre and during workout. There's really no point in replenishing muscle glycogen after the workout. Your daily activities and/or cardio will drain it anyway. Also, one reason keto diets burn so much fat is that glycogen stores are so low during the day. Check out Mr. X's timed glucose meter measurements on his TKD: http://www.elitefitness.com/articledata/mrx/tkdmrx.html

What's everyone's experience with TKDs and pre/post/during workout carbs? I only have experience with CKDs, so I'm just making conjectures.
 
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