Ex-smoking porker asking for help.

[evilqueen]

I'm sure regular readers of this board know about my post-Depo rants. No more of THOSE rants. This go-round, I'll rant about weight gain after quitting smoking.

It sucks, my friends. All through my quit--and even today--I ate clean, lifted hard, and still gained 7 pounds. Mostly around my waist and abs.

I know that nicotine lowers metabolism by as much as 15 percent. I know that the weight I am now is what I would have weighed had I never smoked. I know I am, at 22 percent bodyfat, at an "ideal" percentage.

Do I care? Not a whit. I want to get to 15 percent bodyfat again. And nothing I've tried seems to have helped. The only consolation I have (and it's a huge one, to be sure) is that I've done something good--good for me, good for my son, who needs me to hang around for awhile.

But I need to fit into my clothes comfortably again. Is there anyone out there who's experienced weight gain after quitting smoking, and who's lost it again? Please tell me what you did to lose it.

Perhaps I'm doing something wrong. This is what I'm doing now:

1. Wearing a nicotine patch for the past 3 weeks. Stupid, but I thought it might jump-start my metabolism.
2. 60 minutes of cardio, 5 days a week. (Should I up it to 2 hours, as long as I eat enough calories?)
3. Weight training: 2 bodyparts per day, 3 exercises each bodypart, 3 sets of 12-15 reps (I get bulky lifting low reps, heavy weight.)
4. A Schwarzbein-type diet: Lots of protein and good fats, less than 100 carbs a day. 120 grams protein, 98 grams carbs, 70 grams good fats--olive oil, sunflower seeds, natural peanut butter.

Is there anything else I can do? Any supplements I can take? Anything legal I can take to speed up my metabolism besides thermogenics? Should I eat low carbs, no carbs, more carbs?

BTW: I'm 39, so my "real" metabolism ain't as fast as it used to be. Also, I'm 5'2", 127 pounds, and my goal weight is 120.

Any tips, suggestions, entire programs would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[evilqueen]

On May 1, I was 15.3 percent.

About two weeks ago, it was 22 percent. And I SWEAR I was eating right.

The report said I lost NINE POUNDS OF MUSCLE. Hydration level was only 5 points lower than on the previous report. Is it even possible to lose that much muscle in 6 weeks?

Regardless of the numbers...I'm still fatter. Sigh.

 

[fitbitch]

Did you use one of those electronic scales to get your body fat measured??? Those numbers are almost impossible...what method did you use.

 

[SteelWeaver]

Congratulations. It's hard, but oh so worth it.

When exactly did you quit?

It sounds like you're doing everything right. I quit a year and a half ago with the patch, was taking thermogenics at the time, working out hard, not much cardio, diet was pretty crap compared to now, and somehow I actually lost fat, so I don't reallly know what to say to help you. I have heard though, that the metabolism slows down when you quit. Have you been dieting for a while? Could be you've shot your metabolism from 2 directions now.

 

[evilqueen]

Yes, I did. However, it is one of those "professional" Tanitas--bigger than the ones for use at home. The trainer at my gym did it.

It's possible my bf wasn't that high, but it's the upward trend that counts, right? And my clothes are definitely tighter.

It's not really the actual number I'm hung up on, though. It's this new fat around my waist and abs.

I stopped getting on the scale two weeks ago--it would make me sob. But I know I haven't gained any more.

Do you think the intense cardio will help? I know this is a BB board, but I've read that before competitions, competitors might do as much as two hours of cardio a day.

I haven't neglected my lifting, though. Maybe both lifting and cardio needs to be tweaked?

 

[evilqueen]

No, I stopped diuretics. They scared me.

Temple: You LOST fat? Wow. And if I remember right, you are also around my age. Were you blessed with a turbo metabolism from birth? And when you say "working out hard," how often, how long, etc? Maybe (probably!) I'm not working as hard as you did, and have to lift even harder.

Spatts: I've read that a smoker's metabolism "resets" itself about a year after quitting, but that could be bullsh*t. As an about-to-be doctor, have you ever heard this? Or is it theoretically possible?

It may be that the dieting has dealt a blow to my metabolism. But I have been very careful to eat enough to support that hour of cardio, and careful to eat enough protein, as well. My BMR is around 1300, add 500 calories for cardio, and I'm eating around 1600 calories a day.

About thermogenics: I did use Xenadrine for awhile, but it lost its effectiveness, so I never really did use it after that. Should I give it another try? I always half-believed that if you didn't get "wired," it wasn't helping to burn fat.

Let me ask you guys: If you were ME, and this was happening to YOU, what. exactly, would you do?

 

[SteelWeaver]

Temple? Actually, that's a compliment, to be mistaken for her

Yes - I lost fat - lord knows how - I didn't know anything near what I know now about nutrition at the time, except that I should eat whole foods 6 times a day. I used to do an upper-lower-upper-lower split (4 weight sessions per week) for about 2 hours at a time, and I think I did a few aerobic classes now & then. I never really used to go to complete failure or do forced reps, though. Just drop sets now & then. And I lifted as heavy as I could, which wasn't very heavy at the time, but was as heavy as I could get. Mmm, I might have dropped the aerobics by then and was riding my bike to work and back a few times per week. Actually, that's quite a lot of cardio ...

I'm a fairly typical endomorph. It's hard for me to lose fat - you should have seen me pre-comp a few months ago, lol! I was a wreck.

I'm not sure I'd too much more cardio if I were you - you'll just waste away muscle mass and then it'll be even harder to lose fat.

If I were you, I'd experiment with increasing my cals and doing a double split with weights, and doing intervals for cardio. But I'm no pro or anything.

As for thermos - I read somewhere recently that even if you can't feel the buzz, they're working, and that they actually take a couple of months to really start working full blast ... I was about to post a thread about that.

And BTW, I'm not sure ANY Tanita, big or not, is accurate, but I hear you on the tight pants.

 

[evilqueen]

I R Stupa

I don't know what's with me lately. I'm really screwing up on people's names. And Spatts, I knew you'd left med school! Don't know where the "about-to-be" came from.

Yes, I've checked pubmed, etc. I did find a study on how likely ex-smokers were likely to STAY ex-smokers according to how much weight they gained. The conclusion wasn't good. Stuff on how quitting smoking reduces glucose tolerance. (Great.) Several studies on weight gain and quitting smoking, but they weren't much help. As usual, the researchers advocated eating less and moving more. This was published in a new medical journal called "Duh."

Steelweaver: TWO HOURS OF LIFTING? No, I definitely am not working as hard as you. Approximately how many exercises per body part, and how many sets? Could you be as specific as you can, given that this was awhile ago? I may try this for six or eight weeks. (Just not with squats--sorry, I couldn't resist.)

Can't do intervals right now--my knees are shot. I'm doing 15 minutes on the rowing machine, 15 on the elliptical trainer (which I hate) and 30 minutes on the stepper, four or five days a week. Is this too much cardio? Or do you mean 1 hour a day is fine, but not 2?

going back to the thermogenics--3 a day, because of the patch.

any other still-lean ex-smokers out there? I need your advice before I bust any more seams.

 

[SteelWeaver]

LOL. You also wrote that nicotine LOWERS metabolism, when actually, it RAISES it. Having problems concentrating? heh heh - it'll go away, and you'll be sharper than you've been in years.

Um, NOOO. Don't do what I was doing - I was working out too long - I couldn't maintain enough intensity this way, which is why I said I wasn't going past failure etc. - I keep it to max 1.5 hours nowadays, including warm-up and stretching. I have my workout journals at home - I'll post my exact routine tonight, but in general, I do 3-4 exercises per bodypart with 3-4 sets per movement.

2 hours of cardio a day is a LOT of cardio, and I wouldn't want to be doing anything like that except in the last few weeks before a comp. One hour seems fine. If you're doing so much activity, restricting cals, and the weight isn't coming off, something's wrong. You've either gotta take a complete break from dieting and change up your lifting somehow, or you need to take some strong drugs. (which doesn't seem like a good idea, vicious circle and all that)

Did you give up squats and deads altogether? They're the real body composition changers, you know. Why not just do them with high reps? I swear you will notice a big difference having them in your program - on a fundamental level, they burn more calories, amongst other things.

 

[wilson6]

Start lifting heavier, it will increase your metabolism both from the higher intensity workouts and the increased muscle mass. Better to be bulky from muscle than fat.

Cut your fat intake down to about 25 grams per day, you're fat intake is way too high. Cut you carbs on some days to 50 g, the others around 125g. All complex, mostly veg.

No need to increase cardio, just lift more intensely and heavier.

The other thing that comes to mind is that you're cheating someone with the food intake driven by the "gotta have something in your mouth" compensation for not smoking. Be sure you're being honest with yourself here and not snacking, particularly on high fat items like seeds, nuts, etc.

W6

 

[we5happy]

Just thought I would put in my 2 cents...

1st CONGRATS on quitting...it takes a lot...I know from experience. The gaining part I also know to well. I (and 2 of my friends) have quit and gained ALOT. One actually started smoking again because she couldnt "take" the pounds. One just complains about it but wont workout with me, and I started lifting and have lost 19 lbs so far. It was hard to give up after 12 yrs but I did it and I wouldnt start again for the world. In your case I think you may just have to deal with it because you can only do so much. I would skip the patch though otherwise why did you quit?

We

 

[takniteasy]

Hat off to ya for quitting! I quit 12 years ago when I first started working out. Had to make a choice between being able to breathe when working out or dont work out. So the smokes went out the window! I went from 95 lbs. to 115 lbs. rather quickly with an extremely high BF%. Started lifting soon after and it took about a year before my body settled into a comfortable weight and healthy BF%. Now at 38 Y/O, I still weight about 112-116lbs at any given time and maintain a consistent ~16%BF. BUT, only because I eat very clean and lift heavy for most body parts.

Continue with your lifting and maybe try Spatts carb rotation eating plan. And take W6 advice to heart. Too much cardio will rob you of any muscle gains.

Hope this helps!

 

[evilqueen]

Wilson6 (doublechecking that is is, in fact, wilson6 who made this comment--ah, yes it is): I realize it's hard to believe, but I am not overeating calories.

For the past 3 days on fitday, I've logged between 1400 and 1700 calories. I've done it because on this Schwarzbein plan, she advocates eating as much of the good fats as you want, but I've worried about calories.

Also, I quit smoking 7 months ago, so I don't have those munchies. Never did indulge them, either, even when I quit.

BUT I will say that I do eat more peanut butter than is probably good for me. (See diet, posted below.) Not so on the olive oil and sunflower seeds. still, even eating huge amounts of peanut butter before i quit, i did not gain weight, and i doubt it would cause a 7-pound gain.

Here's a sample day:

Breakfast: 4 egg whites, 1 oz. cheese, 1/3 c oatmeal dry
Snack: 1 T pb
Lunch: Huge green salad with olive oil, a 1T sunflower seeds, 2 oz. feta cheese, tuna or chicken breast.
Snack: protein shake made with water and 4 strawberries
Dinner: Same as breakfast or some kind of lean meat and another huge green salad w/olive oil and 1T sunflower seeds.
Snack: Sometimes, not always. Either a protein shake or another 1 T peanut butter.

This does add up to between 1400 and 1700 calories, even with all the fats. I've been doing this diet for more than a week, and have not gained weight. In fact, I do feel slightly smaller, and my clothing fits fine.

HOWEVER, I am going to follow everyone's advice on this one. Can Steelweaver, Wilson 6, Spats, anyone else please give their imprimatur to this strategy:

1. Diet: as wilson 6 suggested.
2. Weights: 1.5 hrs, 4 times a week. I will do squats and deads--low weights--but will charge Steelweaver for new pants if I start busting out of them again. (Also looking forward to seeing your routine--thanks for posting!)
3. Cardio, 60 mins 4-6 times a week.
4. Ritalin. (Just kidding.)

Anyone have anything to add? Thanks again.

 

[SteelWeaver]

OK, I promised you the routine, and here it is, but I don't think now that I've learnt some stuff that it's ideal - rather too many sets on the smaller body parts - it used to take me forever to get through. And no deads because I hadn't learnt how to do them yet.

I'm also glad W6 said what he did - I was tempted to say the same thing, but after reading a lot of your posts on how you've "bulked up" I thought it would be best to let sleeping dogs lie. However, he has a point - better to be bulky with muscle than fat ....

Day 1: Chest, bi's
Flat db flyes 4x12
Incline db press 4x12
Cable cross-over 5x15
Standing bb curl 4x 10
Seated db curls 4x12
db preacher curls 4x12

Abs: 100 reps in 2-4 sets

Day 2: Legs
Squats 5x8
Leg press 4x12
Single leg extension 3x15
superset with
Standing leg curls 3x15
Lying leg curls 3x12
Standing calf raises 4x15
Seated calf raises 4x15

Abs: 100 reps in 2-4 sets

Day 3: Shoulders & tris
Seated db press 5x8
Standing cable lateral raises 4x12
Bent-over db raises 4x12
Skullcrushers 4x10
Triceps pushdowns 4x12
Triceps kickbacks 3x15

Abs: 100 reps in 2-4 sets

Day 4: Back & forearms
Seated low row 4x10
Wide lat pulldown 4x12
Supported T-bar rows 4x12
Hyperextensions 4x15
Wrist curls 3x12
Reverse wrist curls 3x12

Abs: 100 reps in 2-4 sets

The program is overkill on abs and smaller parts. Nowadays I do low reps (4-6) on an initial heavy compound move (squats, deads, bb curls, etc) and do higher reps on assistance moves. I've cut the number of sets on arms and only do abs 2x per week. And I move slowly between exercises, so that's probably why it takes me so long - most people will say don't go longer than an hour. I like training though, so I tend to do more than I probably need to - I dunno - still figuring it all out.

That program was fine at the time because I didn't know then what intensity could be, and I was pretty focussed on getting form exactly right, so the higher reps were better. I seldom go higher than 12 now though, except for specific moves for legs.

I'm a bit confused though as to why you think your weight gain in the last 6 weeks is related to your quitting smoking 7 MONTHS ago

I'd follow W6's advice - he knows what he's talking about.

 

[evilqueen]

Steelweaver,

Thanks for that detailed posting...I'm going to print it out!

No, I didn't gain WEIGHT. Both in May and in July, I weighed 126--which was fine when I was 15 percent bodyfat (May), not so great at 22 percent (July).

Also, I began the weight gain in March. It was slow, but unstoppable. So between, say, March 15 and now, I've gained 6 or 7 pounds. Not sure--I've put away my scale.

I know it's hard to believe that I've not been eating and slacking off, but it's true. I'm not a person who makes excuses. I can honestly say my diet didn't change at all, and my training only a bit. And that bit was less cardio and stopping squats without changing any other aspect of my routine.

I'm wondering it's a combination of the Depo AND the quitting smoking that did such a whammy on me, especially since of my age.

Ah well...just gotta keep trying. Better to stick to a clean diet and good workout even if I don't see changes--at least I won't gain any more.

I hope.

 

[SteelWeaver]

I forgot to mention - I was doing 6 45 min cardio sessions per week at the time. I didn't lose much fat - 2 - 3 kilos, but I was happy not to put any ON, after all the horrible things I'd heard about quitting, and my sister's experience.

I think stopping squats could make a small but statistically significant difference, and the cardio too. 200-400 calories per day = 1400 - 2800 calories per week, there's half a pound. But you're talking about losing muscle and gaining fat in it's place. IMO your Tanita is up to shit, if you'll excuse the expression. YOu can't lose that much muscle so quickly unless you're starving and doing ridiculous amounts of cardio. How do things look in the mirror?

I weigh more now than I did in Jan, but LOOK quite a lot leaner. HOWEVER, I have noticed that my pants (and shirts) are tighter. My arms are busting out of my sleeves! I think I gained a fair amount of muscle post-comp, and a good portion of it is in my ABS, lol. Yeah, I have fat there, but it took so long for my abs to come through pre-comp I decided to work them really hard and heavy so they'd stand out next time, now with fat over them I just have a bigger waist than ever before ha ha ha ha ha And if you think YOUR waist is big, girl, MINE'S 34-36!!! And my hips are like 38. Think of a Doric column ... I'm working on making my legs and lats much bigger to balance things out

Pick a compound move for each body part and go low reps and heavy on it: squats, deads, chin ups/pull ups, bb curls, narrow-grip bench or dips, good mornings, SLDL's or glute-ham raises, military bb presses. Then add in 1 or 2 more moves for 2 or 3 sets each to toast everything with higher reps (8-12). Then to round each part off, do one light set of an isolation move for 20 - 30 reps. Alternate heavy and moderate - light weeks. Like, for legs, I do heavy moves, low reps, lots of compound stuff one week, then drop the weight and crank out sets of up to 50 reps (staggered with 10-20 sec breaks) and do a few more isolation-type moves the next week. With supersets and stuff too.

And, uh, I'll be HAPPY to buy you new pants AFTER you bring your legs up to match your waist (BTW - I have several pairs of pants in sizes ranging from 20 weeks out to 2 weeks out, mostly low riders, LOL!)