Everybody Here SUCKS!

[perryscoon]

Agreed. There is no such thing as a "cutting" steroid.

 

[james629]

I am in total agreement with Ross, in a natural state you will definately burn more muscle then you think , when a strict diet and cardio are increased. I have been through it many times. BK how old are you?

 

[sugashane]

I trained for 15 years before I ever touched gear. Train hard, eat hard

That and Nelsons are both great posts. Too bad people will just dismiss them because they "researched" for 2-3 days.

 

[hurricane]

no matter who u agree with .. most important is nelson wasnt tryin to be-little us board members .. wish u guys could disagree with out tryin to put each other down so much .. i enjoy reading both of your posts ..

 

[sugashane]

Steroids are either used in a CALORIE SURPLUS to gain muscle mass, or they are used in a CALORIE DEFECIT to PRESERVE muscle mass while REDUCING BODYFAT. Plain and simple.

If you ATTEMPT to reduce bodyfat in an all-natural state, you will NOT be happy 8 weeks later.

It depends on what kind of cardio you are doing. I've trained people who want to keep size and lose fat. So after checking their diets I had them do some low intensity cardio that will elevate their heart rate but not bother the ATP-PC system.

My favorite ones were fast walking for 30-45 mins or a stairmaster for the same time.

By keeping the heartrate up for such a long period of time with constant movements (20-30 mins) your body begins to enter a process of fat oxidation. It burns fat for energy and spares the muscle.

After 8-10 weeks we checked their BF % and lean body mass. The LBM was always at LEAST the same. Most gained some LBM too.

Granted, they weren't trying to lose 20% BF or anything that drastic, but 4-6 percent isn't a terrible feat to do unless you are already very low.

 

[10001110101]

a few things.

it depends whether you are talking about someone at 15+% bf or someone below 12% bf. at 15+% bf muscle is easy to retain while dieting, generally you are above your genetic median for bodyfat and are actually bringing your body closer to it's own ideal. once you decide to go to single digit bodyfat the use of AAS is very necessary to prevent significant muscle and strength loss.

all the time people generalize on this board. it's ridiculous, even the moderators with all their knowledge just try to make blanket statements which do not apply to everyone.

every scenario is unique.

what i think nelson doesn't like is the idea of a regular somewhat fit guy using winstrol to get "ripped" for the beach. and yes i agree this is stupid but at the same time who cares?

to say that unless someone is 225+ they have no need to use aas to cut is just not applicable to everyone.

yes it gets annoying to see skinny guys using gear to have a physique that is barely better than average, but isn't it just as annoying to see bloated dbol,deca,and test bros with over 15% bf?

it is safe for me to assume that everyone here outside of powerlifters want to be both big and lean! how big and how lean is a personal choice! why have a rant on this?

and another thing, steroids DO reduce fat in a dose dependent manner, and what makes them even more appropriate for this purpose is that they can reduce fat from specific areas i.e. visceral fat and abdominal subcutaneous fat. and yes different steroids have different effects regarding this. this is FACT proven by medical science.

however this statement needs to be countered with an understanding that doing a cycle w/ anavar or tren will not drop 20 pounds of fat off your frame unless you are significantly below maintenance cals, more like 5-6 at maintenance cals while gaining mass, or almost unlimited potential for fat loss with minimal muscle loss at cals significantly below maintenance.

 

[Nelson Montana]

This discussion was never meant to be a battle over what people should do.

As far as I'm concerned, you can shoot 3 grams a day and sit on the couch and eat potato chips.

The statement is more toward a common misunderstanding. People come here for advice and that's what I'm giving.

Too many people use steroids as a diet aid. That's like using gold to fill potholes. It's a waste.

You wanna do it? Knock yourself out, but don't throw insults. Provide information. If you can.

Because of too much erroneous information lots of guys are using gear in a way that isn't best utilized. I stand by that. .

 

[eddymerckx]

a few things.

it depends whether you are talking about someone at 15+% bf or someone below 12% bf. at 15+% bf muscle is easy to retain while dieting, generally you are above your genetic median for bodyfat and are actually bringing your body closer to it's own ideal. once you decide to go to single digit bodyfat the use of AAS is very necessary to prevent significant muscle and strength loss.

all the time people generalize on this board. it's ridiculous, even the moderators with all their knowledge just try to make blanket statements which do not apply to everyone.

every scenario is unique.

what i think nelson doesn't like is the idea of a regular somewhat fit guy using winstrol to get "ripped" for the beach. and yes i agree this is stupid but at the same time who cares?

to say that unless someone is 225+ they have no need to use aas to cut is just not applicable to everyone.

yes it gets annoying to see skinny guys using gear to have a physique that is barely better than average, but isn't it just as annoying to see bloated dbol,deca,and test bros with over 15% bf?

it is safe for me to assume that everyone here outside of powerlifters want to be both big and lean! how big and how lean is a personal choice! why have a rant on this?

and another thing, steroids DO reduce fat in a dose dependent manner, and what makes them even more appropriate for this purpose is that they can reduce fat from specific areas i.e. visceral fat and abdominal subcutaneous fat. and yes different steroids have different effects regarding this. this is FACT proven by medical science.

however this statement needs to be countered with an understanding that doing a cycle w/ anavar or tren will not drop 20 pounds of fat off your frame unless you are significantly below maintenance cals, more like 5-6 at maintenance cals while gaining mass, or almost unlimited potential for fat loss with minimal muscle loss at cals significantly below maintenance.

i agree--and i would add age dependent--(I am 41.5) that is, i find test ands a tiny bit of deca helps me get into summer/racing shape (or just into shape this summer--injured last summer) because i can recover from progressivley longer bike rides (two long ones - 5+ hours) a week as opposed to 1 every other week. so in a sense it is a cutter for me--but as a side effect not as direct effect---if that makes sense to anyone.

after 40--i am not sure diet and training alone is enough for what i want---

 

[Big_BK]

I am in total agreement with Ross, in a natural state you will definately burn more muscle then you think , when a strict diet and cardio are increased. I have been through it many times. BK how old are you?

Yeah of course you will burn more if you dont have hormones telling your body to preserve muscle. I was just trying to get the point across that nelson was not talking out of his ass, you need to be in a defecit to cut. period.

 

[nzrodney]

Yes I agree with Nelson's original statement. After all we are meant to be BodyBUILDERS after all. I also agree with others that suggest there is no one fix for all. My belief is that if your continually strive to increase overall body mass, the increased muscle mass eventually becomes your "fat burner". What I think happens on forums is that there is a general belief that AAS is necessary to both increase overall body mass & increase lean muscle mass.Those that have been using gear for a while soon find out that its only part of the equation & a relatively small part at that.