Erectors getting thrashed, need some advice

[JohnRobHolmes]

I have been squatting 2x a week and DL 2x a week. Since they are on different days my Erectors have been getting hammered. I knew it wouldnt last forever, and last friday's workout didnt let me lift on saturday because they were too thrashed and I need a few days to unwind.

I dont want to drop DL's, I dont want to drop Squat. What about doing power cleans and then squatting on my pull day instead? Seems that some PCs would help me will my pull from the floor.

Current split (5x5)

day 1
Squat
Bench
OHP
abs

Day 2
Pullup
DL
Row
rotators

New routine
day1
Bench
OHP
Rotators/ abs

Day 2
Pullup
Power clean
Squat
Row



Seem decent? I like the two day split, but if I really need to I guess I could go back to full body workouts.

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

Found a guy in town that will train me for oly lifting. I have an appointment tomorrow for 1hr session. I cant wait!

 

[s8nlilhlpr]

good luck man, its a blast

hope your erectors get conditioned fast. Just about every oly lift variation starts from the floor/blocks.

 

[Lifting N Tx]

Looks like a reasonable adjustment. Other options get more complicated, like alternating rows and power cleans on the second day. If those are Pendlay rows, some find that they take a toll on the lower back if done in addition to other pulling. Likely just the change you suggest may be enough.

The olympic lifting sounds fun, and s8nlilhlpr is right. Top olympic lifters are beasts and often workout with really high frequency. If you're gonna do that, you'll probably need to really limit how heavy you're pulling so that you can tolerate the volume. I'm not sure how that'll mesh with your current or suggested splits.

I'll be interested to see what you end up doing.

 

[al420]

The olympic lifting sounds fun, and s8nlilhlpr is right. Top olympic lifters are beasts and often workout with really high frequency. If you're gonna do that, you'll probably need to really limit how heavy you're pulling so that you can tolerate the volume. I'm not sure how that'll mesh with your current or suggested splits.

+1

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

Thanks fellas. I think this will really help me out. I gotta look for a reverse hyper bench around here too. My erectors have given me trouble since 2002, and I will be damned if I dont get them back into shape one way or another. I need to look for a reverse hyper machine in the area. I think the place I am going to has one.

 

[coolcolj]

do them on the same day would be logical

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

Yeah, I figure I either need to reduce the weight on everything and train them 4x a week, or do normal volume and weight 2x per week. Im really sick and tired of my lower back being tired and grumpy all the time. He is gonna critique my squats too and let me know if my lower back is rounding out. It doesnt feel like it, but.....

 

[coolcolj]

make sure your glutes are firing properly otherwise the lower back will work at 150%

read that article on tnation called get your butt into gear

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

Read it and applied! I have been focusing on my ass with both the squats and dl's. It has really helped take the load off my lower back, but I have never had a weak ass since I have been a bike rider for 23 years.

 

[UFC22]

read that article on tnation called get your butt into gear

My lower back is usually pretty trashed after squats or deads. Do you have a link to this article? Thanks.

 

[coolcolj]

here you go

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=495189

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=04-057-training

there are a few more other related article on tnation as well by Eric Cressey

 

[coolcolj]

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1508256

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1546556
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1561783

 

[Kabeetz]

Good luck with the Oly coach, JRH, hope that works out for you!!

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

The training did go well, thanks! My form on the cleans was actually pretty good, just needed to work on my speed and lift the snatch all the way. Power shrugs will help me there. He also taught me the hitch, and I got it right once and actually jerked the weight instead of cleaning it! Seems like a damn good trick for getting the weight up, and I got it pretty consistent from below a hang. He was surprised that I started with the bar almost on my shin, most people try to pick the weight up from 12" away from the feet the first time.

Now I have a choice of changing my routine. I can go back to a madcow style 5x5 and use PCs instead of rows, or I can change the current split. The only thing I dont like about the Madcow/ Bill Starr version is the lack of pullups (except fridays). I also do not like doing pullups and bench on the same day. One or the other suffers big time.

Here is my new outline

Push day
Bench
OHP/ jerks
ABS
Rotators
fluff work for a big chest

Pull day
Pullup
Power clean
Squat
Ancillary (lat and grip work probably)


I am missing rows in this, but I would think that pullups and PC would take care of my back and hit the lower traps well enough. Thoughts, Suggestions? I really feel that I make my best progress (right now) when everything is done 2x per week and no subs or rotating schemes are used.

 

[Lifting N Tx]

I was wondering what you'd come up with after your lesson. What you posted looks like a pretty solid scheme for basic power building. If it were me I'd probably add a few things, but that may not be best for you, and sometimes more is less. Also the need for iso and ancillary work tends to vary a lot by individual.

Your comment about 2x/week is interesting, as I've thought about going to a split at some point with some 5x5 influences. Have you thought about having one of the days be more of a workload day and one more focused on intensity, or have you been happy enough with your gains ramping both days about the same?

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

I have been happy ramping both days about the same, but my individual lifts do not get gains on the same days. My bench and OHP PR's are on different days, and my pulling day just got whacked so it will be an almost fresh start.

I might add a few things for ancillary, I might keep it like it is. I am wanting my strength to be usable for riding bikes (my bunnyhop WILL go up after a month of cleans!) so I dont want to always thrash my body so hard in the gym that I cant enjoy being active outside the gym. Having said that, I will probably start to break the routine up into heavy/light days as my power increases. I'm still so green to this that I dont have to vary my workload, which is nice.